Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Grumpy on 27 March 2008, 17:14:43

Title: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Grumpy on 27 March 2008, 17:14:43
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/forumdisplay.php

Just so you are all aware, be careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
garages, ref the experience you have had with them, as you may
find that you may be leaving 'OOF' open to litigation.

I know that some will be up in arms about Freedom of Speech etc..
but this is the Real World we live in, not a mythical Internet World.  :)
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Marie on 27 March 2008, 17:22:24
OMG.....

best watch what we say then!

couldnt live without OOF :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Danny on 27 March 2008, 17:24:45
i would have thought legal proceedings can only be taken if statements were "false" ie slanderous
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: dad1uk on 27 March 2008, 17:44:16
Quote
i would have thought legal proceedings can only be taken if statements were "false" ie slanderous


Unfortunately its all down to each persons opinions.
Was a certain job done properly, or was it not.
We all have our own standards, and its seldom that someone else would come up to our own standard. The problem here is stating this on a forum open to other people who might be future customers.
Was it truth or was it slanderous, one person against another.
No one won, and it destroyed a site that if it was as good as this one would be badly missed.
I think it is possible to complain without being offensive whether truth or not.
I saw a complaint on another site about a scrap yard up north and the guy was very offensive and said he felt like 'killing' the owners.
I thought this was a bit dodgy to print, and several people came back stating the scrapyard was very good. If the owners had taken offence then the forum could have been in the same situation, instead they merely issued a statement saying there had been a problem and it had been sorted.
People must be careful what they say, it would be disasterous lo lose this forum!
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Martin_1962 on 27 March 2008, 17:57:27
Just being right is not enough unfortunatley. Quite a few companies with dodgy practices protect themselves with the legal system - money talks as they say
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Tony H on 27 March 2008, 18:01:56
You have a very valid point, however if someone is unhappy with say work done by a garage, if they report the FACTS fully and TRUTHFULLY and let the readers decide I see this as only using the right of freedom of speech. However that said if the admins can be brought to account for any falsehoods the perhaps it a to higher price to pay when you concider that the sight is run by volunteers for no reward. For them to have their personal assets put at risk is unacceptable
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: albitz on 27 March 2008, 18:23:29
this is a very sad situation indeed,but i suppose they have to act on the legal advice they have been given,otherwise they could end up in deep s*^t.sounds like an example of the law and justice being distant cousins. :(
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: HerefordElite on 27 March 2008, 18:26:51
Quote
You have a very valid point, however if someone is unhappy with say work done by a garage, if they report the FACTS fully and TRUTHFULLY and let the readers decide I see this as only using the right of freedom of speech. However that said if the admins can be brought to account for any falsehoods the perhaps it a to higher price to pay when you concider that the sight is run by volunteers for no reward. For them to have their personal assets put at risk is unacceptable

surely a simple disclaimer "the views represented here are those of the contributing members and in now way represent the views of the site itself etc balh blah blah"

I really do believe that if one reports the truth acurately it CANNOT be slander (i'm no lawyer :D) but we must be careful appreciated :y
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: ians on 27 March 2008, 18:30:50
The thing is fact becomes opinion very easily.   and even if true, that fact would need to be established in a court which means legal fees etc.

 As this is not a club/organisation I have no idea who would/could be pursued but it could well be the poster of the potentially libellous material (slander is when it is spoken).

So care/responsibility is needed and I think admins should be removing posts which are dodgy.

Is there a lawyer in the house...??





Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Tony H on 27 March 2008, 18:31:51
Quote
Quote
You have a very valid point, however if someone is unhappy with say work done by a garage, if they report the FACTS fully and TRUTHFULLY and let the readers decide I see this as only using the right of freedom of speech. However that said if the admins can be brought to account for any falsehoods the perhaps it a to higher price to pay when you concider that the sight is run by volunteers for no reward. For them to have their personal assets put at risk is unacceptable

surely a simple disclaimer "the views represented here are those of the contributing members and in now way represent the views of the site itself etc balh blah blah"

I really do believe that if one reports the truth acurately it CANNOT be slander (i'm no lawyer :D) but we must be careful appreciated :y
Very thin ice I would think as the forum could be seen as a vehical to expose information to a wider audience
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: HerefordElite on 27 March 2008, 18:50:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
You have a very valid point, however if someone is unhappy with say work done by a garage, if they report the FACTS fully and TRUTHFULLY and let the readers decide I see this as only using the right of freedom of speech. However that said if the admins can be brought to account for any falsehoods the perhaps it a to higher price to pay when you concider that the sight is run by volunteers for no reward. For them to have their personal assets put at risk is unacceptable

surely a simple disclaimer "the views represented here are those of the contributing members and in now way represent the views of the site itself etc balh blah blah"

I really do believe that if one reports the truth acurately it CANNOT be slander (i'm no lawyer :D) but we must be careful appreciated :y
Very thin ice I would think as the forum could be seen as a vehical to expose information to a wider audience

as i said, i'm no lawyer ;)
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Gaffers on 27 March 2008, 18:56:41
Quote
Quote
Quote
You have a very valid point, however if someone is unhappy with say work done by a garage, if they report the FACTS fully and TRUTHFULLY and let the readers decide I see this as only using the right of freedom of speech. However that said if the admins can be brought to account for any falsehoods the perhaps it a to higher price to pay when you concider that the sight is run by volunteers for no reward. For them to have their personal assets put at risk is unacceptable

surely a simple disclaimer "the views represented here are those of the contributing members and in now way represent the views of the site itself etc balh blah blah"

I really do believe that if one reports the truth acurately it CANNOT be slander (i'm no lawyer :D) but we must be careful appreciated :y
Very thin ice I would think as the forum could be seen as a vehical to expose information to a wider audience

so could a megaphone, it would still the person who said it that would be commiting an offense
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Tony H on 27 March 2008, 19:07:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You have a very valid point, however if someone is unhappy with say work done by a garage, if they report the FACTS fully and TRUTHFULLY and let the readers decide I see this as only using the right of freedom of speech. However that said if the admins can be brought to account for any falsehoods the perhaps it a to higher price to pay when you concider that the sight is run by volunteers for no reward. For them to have their personal assets put at risk is unacceptable

surely a simple disclaimer "the views represented here are those of the contributing members and in now way represent the views of the site itself etc balh blah blah"

I really do believe that if one reports the truth acurately it CANNOT be slander (i'm no lawyer :D) but we must be careful appreciated :y
Very thin ice I would think as the forum could be seen as a vehical to expose information to a wider audience

so could a megaphone, it would still the person who said it that would be commiting an offense
[/highlight]
But not when the forum could be seen as a third party
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: mantahatch on 27 March 2008, 19:08:21
I am/was a member of that forum, because the wife owns a Volvo. I found the site to be quite good. It was not as informative as OOF but I put this down to "Vauxhall drivers are practical hands on people" and "Volvo owners tend to be more academic and less hands on"
This means on the Volvo site there appeared to be very few people who knew about how a car worked. That said there where one or two people who very knowledgable.
Most Volvo owners seemed to be more concerned with asking " how much are Volvo going to charge to fix this problem" than asking how do I fix this problem.
I have no idea what the thread was regarding the closing down of the site, as I only visited once or twice a week.
Volvo generally make a good robust car, but they are very expensive to get serviced or repaired, perhaps if someone from Volvo reads this they can justify there enourmous labour costs compared to other vehicle manufacturers.

Mike

Disclaimer: I take full responsibilty for the words I have typed above. The owners and moderators of this site must be exempted from any liability caused by my actions. I take full responsibilty for all my actions  :)
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: TheBoy on 27 March 2008, 21:17:51
Quote
I am/was a member of that forum, because the wife owns a Volvo. I found the site to be quite good. It was not as informative as OOF but I put this down to "Vauxhall drivers are practical hands on people" and "Volvo owners tend to be more academic and less hands on"
This means on the Volvo site there appeared to be very few people who knew about how a car worked. That said there where one or two people who very knowledgable.
Most Volvo owners seemed to be more concerned with asking " how much are Volvo going to charge to fix this problem" than asking how do I fix this problem.
I have no idea what the thread was regarding the closing down of the site, as I only visited once or twice a week.
Volvo generally make a good robust car, but they are very expensive to get serviced or repaired, perhaps if someone from Volvo reads this they can justify there enourmous labour costs compared to other vehicle manufacturers.

Mike

Disclaimer: I take full responsibilty for the words I have typed above. The owners and moderators of this site must be exempted from any liability caused by my actions. I take full responsibilty for all my actions  :)
Labour cost is decided by dealer, not manufacturer
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: rad cap on 27 March 2008, 21:40:56
i love all garages and love to give them lots of money for repairs. and we should not call any of them , there all wonderfull ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Entwood on 27 March 2008, 21:48:41
Just serves to prove the importance of the Moderators/Admin staff we have, and why we need to thank and support them.

I have been a member/moderator of different sites and I can honestly say this is about the friendliest and best run site I have had the pleasure to be a member of... and that doesn't just happen .. its down to a LOT of hard work "behind the scenes".

Once again .. thanks guys ... :)
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: robbo299 on 27 March 2008, 21:52:32
just like to echo entwood's thoughts. only been a member a few months and think ALL do a brill job. Moderators and contributors etc etc. :y
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: rad cap on 27 March 2008, 21:53:56
here here :y
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: dad1uk on 28 March 2008, 05:49:21
Quote
Just serves to prove the importance of the Moderators/Admin staff we have, and why we need to thank and support them.

I have been a member/moderator of different sites and I can honestly say this is about the friendliest and best run site I have had the pleasure to be a member of... and that doesn't just happen .. its down to a LOT of hard work "behind the scenes".

Once again .. thanks guys ... :)


I second this..... Thanks admin  :y  :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Bandit127 on 28 March 2008, 07:25:40
I susspect the law is not "as clear as a bell" on it, but the fact that the directors of the Volvo Owners Group feel that they can be held liable for posts on their forum is a bit of a shocker.

As stated in previous posts, this is a good forum - and for two reasons. One is that us Omega owners tend to be mature and intelligent thinking people. The other is because the Admins and Mods are doing a great job. (There was a post on here recently slagging off another member who had done work for the poster - it was pulled within minutes and handled very professionally).

That the Admins and Mods - and the provider of this forum - can be held legally responsible for other's content, while doing a voluntary job in good faith, is is plain wrong. It is also a poor reflection of our pathetically litigious and selfish society.

Jim  >:(
Title: Re: Be Careful about 'Naming and Shaming'
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 March 2008, 09:26:42
Quote
That the Admins and Mods - and the provider of this forum - can be held legally responsible for other's content, while doing a voluntary job in good faith, is is plain wrong. It is also a poor reflection of our pathetically litigious and selfish society.

Absolutely. The law needs clarifying here. The way I see it, if the admin / owner of a site responds in a constructive way to complaints of unfair information posted therein he has done all he can. What can he be expected to do other than remove the information when it is brought to his attention? Personally moderate every post before publication?

Problem is, once a lawyer sees the opportunity to make some money they will go for everyone, due to lack of any real legal pprecedence on the matter.

It probably doesn't help that most of the legal system are stuffy old baffoons who don't understand the internet, nor the actual contributions made by the various parties involved in hosting, running and contricuting to a web forum.

Kevin