Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Colin G on 29 February 2012, 20:07:35
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I thought it might be useful to document this job, I've printed out the How Toos for the various jobs I'm doing on my car and I'll keep this thread updated with progress. I'll have some questions I'm sure which I'll highlight in RED in the hope that some of you knowledgeable guys will be able to answer for me. If this post is in the wrong place please move.
Okay, so I discovered that Hellmans had paid a visit to my coolant system so what to do? give up and buy something else or to soldier on. Well I like the car, it's the 2nd miggy I've had, 3rd if you count the Carlton I had years ago and beside, I'd just had Chrisgixer sort my wishbones out for me.
I decided to sort the oil cooler out and seeing as though I was gonna be buried in the bowels of the top part of the engine, I thought I might as well do some other stuff while it's stripped down namely :-
- Oil Cooler
- Cam Cover Gaskets
- Thermostat
- HBV
So got all the parts ordered and assembled the tools (why is it you always have something missing?) and got stuck in stripping down this morning. 1st problem, don't have a 12mm allen key to remove the oil filter housing so that put paid to releasing the oil cooler pipes by the oil filter - trip to Machine Mart tomorrow.
Anyway, started removing the plenum, got the inlet trumpets out. I can't remember the last time I cleaned the breather system whether I had fluid sloching around in the trumpets however, this time I tipped quite a bit out of them, I'm assuming this is a bi-product of the knackered oil cooler? So the plenum is off, got the inlet off and started taking the sandwich plate off. Bugger, one of the bolts sheared off, the one right at the back on the passnger side. Ended up spending nearly 3 hours drilling and punching it out, luckily, the thread appears alright - hope it's okay when I put it back together and torque it all up. Could anybody give me the size of the bolt as I need a replacement
Back to stripping, got the cam covers off and cleaned up ready to replace with new gaskets. I have 16 o ring seals, where do these actually go as I can't see anything that looks like them. Next thing on the list was the HBV, this proved staright forward although I tooke the opportunity to remove as much crap as I could and took the hose between the Coolant tank and HBV off and gave it a proper flushing - trying to minimise the ammount of crap left in the system. Final job of the day before packing up was to replace the thermostat. What a nightmare, had to give up in the finish as the light was fading. Managed to shead the fixing point off the transfer pipe trying to break the seals - what a really crap design. I shall be ordering a new transfer pipe and hopefully I can extract the transfer pipe and thermostat as a single unit.
Stay tuned :)
Col
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The 16 o-rings go on the underside of the cam covers.The old ones will resemble little hard plastic discs.Lever them out with a very small screwdriver or similar.then clean up the recesses where they came from and fit the new rings. :y
Good luck with it,I did the same job recently. I dont bother undoing the cooler pipes at the bottom,I jsut gently bend them up put of the way, but its a personal decision.Dont blame me if one breaks. ;)
I would advise to remove the hoses and rad while your there.They can be cleaned out thoroughly off the car then.I find it easier to do that then the nseemingly never ending flushing routine after the jobs finished.It depends how far the car has been driven since the cooler started leaking though.If you caught it early it might not not much flushing,but if its been driven like that for a while its a nightmare trying to get it all out.
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Get yourself a bottle of Forte bio degreaser and use for the final flush out.
Is the best product around for removing all the oil from cooling system :y :y :y
Here is a link for info http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=41/Bio_Degreaser (http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=41/Bio_Degreaser)
HTH
Rob
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Get yourself a bottle of Forte bio degreaser and use for the final flush out.
Is the best product around for removing all the oil from cooling system :y :y :y
Here is a link for info http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=41/Bio_Degreaser (http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=41/Bio_Degreaser)
HTH
Rob
Second that - just ignore the smell :o ;)
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Thanks for the tip guys - duly ordered. Forgot to ask, is it normal to find some mayo in the top of the the cam covers, I seem to remember seeing it in other rocker covers in the long distant past
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The 16 o-rings go on the underside of the cam covers.The old ones will resemble little hard plastic discs.Lever them out with a very small screwdriver or similar.then clean up the recesses where they came from and fit the new rings. :y
Good luck with it,I did the same job recently. I dont bother undoing the cooler pipes at the bottom,I jsut gently bend them up put of the way, but its a personal decision.Dont blame me if one breaks. ;)
I would advise to remove the hoses and rad while your there.They can be cleaned out thoroughly off the car then.I find it easier to do that then the nseemingly never ending flushing routine after the jobs finished.It depends how far the car has been driven since the cooler started leaking though.If you caught it early it might not not much flushing,but if its been driven like that for a while its a nightmare trying to get it all out.
There's a risk with that method, on around four occasions now where this has been done I have had to go in and fix an oil leak at the cooler pipe to block joint as the bending can cause the flare nut to lossen in the block and oil sprays out!.
Be warned :y
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Thanks for the tip guys - duly ordered. Forgot to ask, is it normal to find some mayo in the top of the the cam covers, I seem to remember seeing it in other rocker covers in the long distant past
Yes, you should change the oil after an oil cooler failure.
Although whilst running, the oil pressure is higher than that of the coolant and hence the mayo in the header tank, when the engine is turned off, the coolant pressure remains higher than atmospheric longer than the oil pressure does.....the result is that some water can get into the oil.
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Thanks Mark, yes I wasn't too confident about just bending the pipes out of the way so I shall do it by releasing the pipes at the oil filter. I have finally managed to get the thermostat out. In the end I ended up taking the hose of the transfer pipe, drilling through the end of the transfer pipe so that you could get a screwdriver right through to use this as a lever. Obviously this is only relevent if you are replacing the transfer pipe as I am cos I bust the bracket in my late in the day attempt yesterday ;D
Yes I had planned on doing a mini service of oil and filters. Is there any real merit in changing the oil filter to the spin on type?
This is going to be a long job, just going to take my time, thankfully I've got an understanding partner who has given up her car and is catching the bus to work........must be love :-*
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What a b...ard, got the oil filter housing off and released the right hand oil cooler pipe, put the crows foot socket into the left hand pipe and bugger, it's slipped of and disappeared down under what I assume is the engine mount. Can't feel it, don't seem to be able to get to it with my magnetic tool so it looks like the mount will have to come off. Any tips on doing this or if anybody has any suggestions on how to recover said crows foot socket without having to remove the mount would be gretefully recieved.
Cheers
Col (in tears)
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The 16 o-rings go on the underside of the cam covers.The old ones will resemble little hard plastic discs.Lever them out with a very small screwdriver or similar.then clean up the recesses where they came from and fit the new rings. :y
Good luck with it,I did the same job recently. I dont bother undoing the cooler pipes at the bottom,I jsut gently bend them up put of the way, but its a personal decision.Dont blame me if one breaks. ;)
I would advise to remove the hoses and rad while your there.They can be cleaned out thoroughly off the car then.I find it easier to do that then the nseemingly never ending flushing routine after the jobs finished.It depends how far the car has been driven since the cooler started leaking though.If you caught it early it might not not much flushing,but if its been driven like that for a while its a nightmare trying to get it all out.
There's a risk with that method, on around four occasions now where this has been done I have had to go in and fix an oil leak at the cooler pipe to block joint as the bending can cause the flare nut to lossen in the block and oil sprays out!.
Be warned :y
I fully agree with MDTM on this.
Before starting the job, I had spoken to MDTM, and he warned me not to bend the pipes, amongst other good advice. Needless to say, I chose to ignore him and bent the pipes ::) (as I didn't have crowsfoot sockets)
Not only was it 10 times harder to refit the pipes, but 2 weeks later, I have to buy the crowsfoot sockets to cure the leak near the oil filter ::)
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Well a bit further forward today. Couldn't get the engine mount off to try and recover the crows foot socket that went walkabout ( will search to see how to get this off ) could maybe update the guide for us accident prone people by suggesting putting a rag in the top of the mount ;). Anyway, ended up pushing the front pipe out of the way to get at the oil cooler plate which went okay. Talked nicely to SWMBO to see if she had any old towels she was throwing out to use to soak up as much of the mayo in the oil cooler recess to try and reduce the ammount to flush out. Got the area all cleaned up an installed the oil cooler with the grey sealant as per the guide. Put the two oiler cooler pipes on and tightened the one I'd managed to release down by the oil filter. Put new washers on where they connect to the oil cooler and started to torque them up to 30nm as per the guide. Bugger!! the front hollow bolt sheared before getting to the torque setting. Oh well, more new parts to order.
Gave up on that and fitted the new thermostat and transfer pipe, very easy, used some silicon grease on the seals and it went in dead easy. Decided that I'd had enough of spannering for the day so decided to do a bit of cleaning. Cleaned the top radiator hose using road film remover and hot water - squeaky clean now, slowly getting down the amount of mayo kicking around. Then had a good clean up of the cam covers ready to fit tomorrow (weather permitting). Think until I get the new bolt for the oil cooler pipe I shall concentrate on clearing as much of the crap out of the system as possible - radiator, coolant tank.
If anybody could give me any tips on removing the passenger side engine mount I'd be really grateful - spent 1 1/2 hours trying to get at the top left hand bolt where it connects to the engine block - I need to recover the crows foot socket >:(
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I cant believe you need to take the mount off tbh.Have you shone a torch around the area to see if theres any sign of it ? :-\
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Tried all sorts to locate it - must stuck between engine mount and engine :(
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Bit more done today, got the Cam Cover gaskets done and cam covers back on, coil packs in and then onto the B...ard bolt. It came of very easily, putting it back on was another story but it's on now. Just waiting for the oil pipe to cooler screw to arrive and then it'll be onwards and upwards to the finish hopefully. Have got the coolant tank off ready to degunge and am gonna try and flush the rad without taking it out.
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Little bit more progress, picked up a new oil cooler pipe bolt from Vauxhalls, bloody thing is too big to go through the banjo on the end of the oil cooler pipe. Decided to try one of the bolts from the coolant bridge, fitted a treat and the oil cooler bolt fitted the bridge. I notice they are different part numbers but a comparisson of the two they look identical - will i be okay leaving it like this?
Got the coolant tank cleaned, next is the hoses and flushing the radiator before starting to put the top back on the engine.
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Little bit more progress, picked up a new oil cooler pipe bolt from Vauxhalls, bloody thing is too big to go through the banjo on the end of the oil cooler pipe. Decided to try one of the bolts from the coolant bridge, fitted a treat and the oil cooler bolt fitted the bridge. I notice they are different part numbers but a comparisson of the two they look identical - will i be okay leaving it like this?
Got the coolant tank cleaned, next is the hoses and flushing the radiator before starting to put the top back on the engine.
No - I used a coolant bridge bolt for the oil cooler after shearing a bolt. They look the same but the length of thread is slightly different. Result after torquing up - oil pi**ed out! Fitted correct bolts sealed ok. Don't try it mate you'll only end up stripping it all out again ;)
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Thanks for the heads up, can only assume the spec has changed or the bolt is at the limit of it's tolerance. I'll have to check it witha vernier to see what the difference is - anybody got a spare oil cooler bolt they could let me have, just have visions of playing bolt ping pong with Vauxhall dealer
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Had no probs with my local stealer getting correct bolts
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Got a vernier caliper on the bolts today. The new oil cooler bolt is 16.1mm, the sheared one is 15.8 and the coolant bridge bolt is the same circa 15.8. Then checked the threads on all 3 bolts and measured 11mm give or take however, they were all 3 the same length so I've decided to take a chance so that I can get it all back together. Just hope it doesn't got tits up with a leak.
Tomorrow is the big clean up flushing the radiator, cleaning as many of the pipes as possible before putting it all back together and doing the final flushing, hopefully taking the time to clear as much as possible should mean slightly less flushing.
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It is a thread length/position difference mate & its only a small difference. A coolant bridge bolt fitted to oil cooler banjo union will torque down OK but onto the thread run out and will not "squeeze" the seals - hence oil leakage ( not drips but will pi** out). Why do you think that Vx gave them different part numbers (because they're different?) ;)
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Fair enough - just trying to progress the job however, I've taken onboard your advice and ordered two from different sources - let's hope they are a better spec than the one I bought from Vaux the other day.
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Fair enough - just trying to progress the job however, I've taken onboard your advice and ordered two from different sources - let's hope they are a better spec than the one I bought from Vaux the other day.
Glad to hear that mate - I was in the same position trying to press on when I sheared one of the oil cooler bolts (using torque wrench set to correct torque). Quick look at a new coolant bridge bolt I had in the garage, compared to oil cooler bolt, noticed slight difference but thought I'd get away with it. Torqed it down. On starting engine oil really pi**ed down back of block.
Strippe back down and the "V" was full of oil. Cleaned up, fitted new correct bolts and on start up no oil leaks.
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Okay so 99% there in terms of putting it back together but have a couple more questions which could well may me look a prat but hey ho, just want to do things right.
- I've put a load of traffic film remover into the coolant system having flushed as much as possible before putting it all back together. My question is, should I start the car and get it upto normal temp to circulate and then drain down each time I flush? Should I run the engine first with the radiator drain open with a hose shoved in the coolant tank? Should I run for a couple of days with the Forte Bio degreaser and then drain down again before putting in the correct anti freeze solution?
- When should I do the oil change, before I start the car or should I start it to get it upto temperature so that I get more of the old oil out of the system and then put the new oil and filter in?
Sorry if this is pretty basic stuff but as I say I just want to get it right :D
Cheers
Col
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1. I used Forte Bio Degreaser in mine - ran it for a day, drained, toped back up with water, ran it for a couple of days, drained. Water coming out was clear and clean. Topped back up with 5 lits red antifreeze to give 50:50 mix.
2. I would run the car "round the block" to get the oil hot before draining, then fit new filter and new oil.
HTH
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Thanks dbug, that's a great help.
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Well, you could have knocked me down with a feather, got it all back together, topped up the oil and turned the key - engine burst into life however (there's always a however ain't there), I could hear a "fizzing" sound coming from the top of the engine!!! Checked under the car to see if there were any drips, checked the coolant tank to see if the level was dropping but sounded more like air. Anyway, took the breather box off the top of the plenum and noticed the O ring was knackered where it goes into the plenum. Have ordered a replacement from Steve at Omegaspares so hopefully this will sort the problem and I can get on with doing the full flushing and oil change regime.
Thanks for all the help so far, as ever you guys always come up trumps with answers.
Cheers Col
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I've just done the cooler on my 3.2........I found that a hoselock connector with a small bit of rad hose on it (motorbike rad hose) fitted into the main hose from the bottom of the coolant bottle...put the hose clip on and turn on the tap..............make sure the return hoses are directed out of the engine bay and that the rad drain screw is undone..worked really well.... :y
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Oo'er, just noticed I've been promoted to Junior Member, good few years siince I was classed as a junior ;D
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Congrats junior & glad you got it sorted mate :y
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All sorted, did around 8 fills/flushes, 2 with Forte Bio Degreaser, done around 50 miles driving and all seems okay, levels not dropped, no drips from under car and no bad smells in the cabin so fingers crossed. Now all I gotta do is get it through its MOT - be interesting to see if it fails as it only failed last one about 6 weeks ago on ball joint on the wishbone so had Chrisgixer change them for me ;)
Thanks once again for all the help from you guys and all the guys who took the time to write the How Tos that I followed.
Col
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Keep an eye on your hoses amd HBV for a while.Its not uncommon for them to fail after being soaked in oil from the inside. ;)
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Cheers Albs, will do, changed the HBV while I had it all stripped down.
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Fianal update. just got back from MOT and it passed with NO advisories - think that is the first time ever!!!
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Sorry to resurrect this, I've done about 100miles and everything appears fine however, I've just checked the levels which are all fine but I noticed that there was some oil in the coolant tank, no mayo. Now the oil on the dipstick is nice and clean as I did an oil change when I put it all back together. The small amount of oil in the coolant tank is as black as your hat, the same colour as the old oil I drained out of the sump. My question is and I hope the answer is what I think it is, is it likely just to be residual oil from the oil cooler failure? I did loads of flushing but I did notice some small globs of mayo when I did the final fill with antifreeze and decided I'd give it a couple of weeks of running and then drain down and flush again to finally clear them out. I notice that there aren't any floating in the coolant tank at the moment.
I shall run for a few more days and see what's what.
Cheers Col
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I had the same thing a month or so ago.I thought I might have still had a leak,but quite a lot more flushing cleared it and all was well. :y
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Thanks albs, I thought it must be residual due to the colour fingers crossed when I delve further.