Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: ngrainqey on 03 March 2012, 20:37:23
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Hello,
has anybody thought about blanking off the engine oil cooler in the vee and using a gearbox oil cooler rad instead?
alex
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Hello,
has anybody thought about blanking off the engine oil cooler in the vee and using a gearbox oil cooler rad instead?
alex
A lot of effort for what gain? The 'cooler' is in effect a 2 way heat exchanger, it helps to raise coolant temp when the engine is cold as well as helping to cool the oil when the engine is hot. :y
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if you are going to mod the engine, oil cooler location must be changed for better cooling .. but this brings another problem..
you need a new design .. :-\
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Thought there was a cooler stat available? :-\
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im not really suggesting it to do anything other than eliminate the risk of oil cooler failure and contamination of water in oil/ oil in water
alex
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As said above, the engine oil warming the coolant is often ever looked. I know I didn't think of it either, until Master pointed it out.
I'm under the impression the optimum temp is 70 to 80 degrees for a tuned engine. Not sure if that's true or why. But if the omega ran that cold it would be a pita in winter.
Later models have a steal oil cooler, I thought these where more reliable?
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Yep later ones and replacements are stainless steel
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imo, placing oil cooler in the middle of engine and immersing in coolant not a good design in the first place ..
never seen a japanese car having similiar design..
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imo, placing oil cooler in the middle of engine and immersing in coolant not a good design in the first place ..
never seen a japanese car having similiar design..
+1 CEM, on the volvos the number 1 failure is autoboxes where the engine coolant and gearbox oil contaminate eachother because the gearbox oil cooler runs inside the coolant rad
alex
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on the volvos the number 1 failure is autoboxes where the engine coolant and gearbox oil contaminate eachother because the gearbox oil cooler runs inside the coolant rad
alex
ATF cooler is in the end of the main rad on MOST cars. But the original question was re engine oil coolers. ;)
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lol sorry andy...back on topic, thought seeing as i was converting the auto to manual, i'd swap the atf cooler to an engine oil cooler :P
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lol sorry andy...back on topic, thought seeing as i was converting the auto to manual, i'd swap the atf cooler to an engine oil cooler :P
You mean you're thinking of swapping from an oil/water cooler in the V to an oil/water cooler in the main radiator :-\ :-\ :-\
Samething then .................... ;) ;)
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
But - unless you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler in there, your ATF cooler is in your radiator? If you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler on there then yeah, you could do the same thing for the oil, though you'd want a thermostatic sandwich plate to avoid over-cooling.
imo, placing oil cooler in the middle of engine and immersing in coolant not a good design in the first place ..
never seen a japanese car having similiar design..
Toyota 1ZZ engines have an oil cooler that's surrounded by engine coolant.
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
But - unless you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler in there, your ATF cooler is in your radiator? If you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler on there then yeah, you could do the same thing for the oil, though you'd want a thermostatic sandwich plate to avoid over-cooling.
imo, placing oil cooler in the middle of engine and immersing in coolant not a good design in the first place ..
never seen a japanese car having similiar design..
Toyota 1ZZ engines have an oil cooler that's surrounded by engine coolant.
first I need to buy from those engines to see.. second another bad design then ;D :P
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
But - unless you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler in there, your ATF cooler is in your radiator? If you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler on there then yeah, you could do the same thing for the oil, though you'd want a thermostatic sandwich plate to avoid over-cooling.
imo, placing oil cooler in the middle of engine and immersing in coolant not a good design in the first place ..
never seen a japanese car having similiar design..
Toyota 1ZZ engines have an oil cooler that's surrounded by engine coolant.
first I need to buy from those engines to see.. second another bad design then ;D :P
;D Actually it works really well on the 1ZZ - gets the oil up to temperature much more quickly than it would otherwise and regulates the oil at a healthy ~88-90C even with an aftermarket oil-cooled plain bearing turbo strapped on ;)
The Japanese specification cars, oddly, lack the oil warmer cooler - it seems to only be fitted in Europe which suggests to me it was specifically designed for cold (Nordic .. and you ;D) climates :)
I'm guessing it's stainless steel since we've never seen one start leaking..
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
But - unless you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler in there, your ATF cooler is in your radiator? If you've got an aftermarket ATF cooler on there then yeah, you could do the same thing for the oil, though you'd want a thermostatic sandwich plate to avoid over-cooling.
imo, placing oil cooler in the middle of engine and immersing in coolant not a good design in the first place ..
never seen a japanese car having similiar design..
Toyota 1ZZ engines have an oil cooler that's surrounded by engine coolant.
first I need to buy from those engines to see.. second another bad design then ;D :P
;D Actually it works really well on the 1ZZ - gets the oil up to temperature much more quickly than it would otherwise and regulates the oil at a healthy ~88-90C even with an aftermarket oil-cooled plain bearing turbo strapped on ;)
The Japanese specification cars, oddly, lack the oil warmer cooler - it seems to only be fitted in Europe which suggests to me it was specifically designed for cold (Nordic .. and you ;D ) climates :)
I'm guessing it's stainless steel since we've never seen one start leaking..
honda and renault produces cars here and they dont use oil heater ;D and also russian cars dont use.. so I dont think heating oil is a must.. of course oil cooling is different..
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
Just realised exactly what model you have. Yes, your ATF cooler is oil/air :y :y
The Senator did use a small radiator in/under the front driver's side of the car for the engine oil, as suggested by Chris, it used a 'stat in the feed to it from the plate under the oil filter .............. often didn't work though. ;) ;)
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
Just realised exactly what model you have. Yes, your ATF cooler is oil/air :y :y
I thought the 3.2 had the ATF cooler in the rad like the others? Ah well, you learn something new every day! :)
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
Just realised exactly what model you have. Yes, your ATF cooler is oil/air :y :y
I thought the 3.2 had the ATF cooler in the rad like the others? Ah well, you learn something new every day! :)
Apparently not ........ I only know via the forum - never taken enough notice of others' cars ??? ;)
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nooo lol.... blank the oil cooler off in the vee then have an external oil cooler like the atf cooler currently on it ;) no contamination then mmmm :P
Just realised exactly what model you have. Yes, your ATF cooler is oil/air :y :y
I thought the 3.2 had the ATF cooler in the rad like the others? Ah well, you learn something new every day! :)
Apparently not ........ I only know via the forum - never taken enough notice of others' cars ??? ;)
I guess I'll find out if & when I have to pull the rad from mine :y
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A little rad which sits between the water rad and the A/C condenser.Got one in the shed if anyone wants one to use as an oil cooler. ;D
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I have an "S"-plate car which has the separate transmission oil-to-air cooler between the aircon matrix and the main radiator, so I'm assuming that they changed about then.
All of the stainless vee-type coolers are very robust - I've yet to see one leaking.
The main oil-relasted problem is that the mass coolant temperature is a bit high in the 54degree engine, allowing the oil to run hot as they share the same coolant. If you have some tuning in mind, then I'd look to improvements to the coolant temperature first and oil temperature second.
To get the best of both worlds, you'd leave the vee-cooler in place and supplant it with an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler, for which the transmission one would be ideal PROVIDED IT CAN TAKE THE PRESSURE. Youi'll get the benefits of fast oil warming and ultimately low oil temperature, too.
I have run Omega B with a separate oil-to-air cooler in the front bumper. The only difficult part was routing the hoses from the back of the block (by the filter) around to the bumper - and this was on a car that had already had an aircon-ectomy. I still have the hoses if you want them.Tell you what, I'm coming past Rotherham tomorrow evening, so I'll put them in the car for you. You must ring me tho, as I won't see any e-mail between now and then.
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Engine oil cooler - the best option is to still with teh original setup. To reduce chances of failures - and yes, stainless ones fail as well - properly keep on top of fluid changes, esp coolant. Corrosion inhibitors in the coolant are often overlooked ;)
ATF coolers - in OS of rad on early models, a seperate rad sat between condensor and main rad on later cars.
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I have an "S"-plate car which has the separate transmission oil-to-air cooler between the aircon matrix and the main radiator, so I'm assuming that they changed about then.
No, much later....
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thought it was with the DBW engines? :-\
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it may have been an option on earlier cars, this one of mine definitely had it from new, but it was ex-plod.
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Engine oil cooler - the best option is to still with teh original setup. To reduce chances of failures - and yes, stainless ones fail as well - properly keep on top of fluid changes, esp coolant. Corrosion inhibitors in the coolant are often overlooked ;)
ATF coolers - in OS of rad on early models, a seperate rad sat between condensor and main rad on later cars.
Yep.My estate is a 2002 2.6,so would have had a stainless cooler.Had cooler failure at 90,000.Probably never had a coolant change from new.
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it may have been an option on earlier cars, this one of mine definitely had it from new, but it was ex-plod.
Wonder if plod had a more meaty option. Not aware of it being in the options list for retail.
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there is a very simple answer to all this, an auto gearbox cooler is designed to withstand virtually no pressure (as the return line to the box simply dumps the oil back into the sump)however your engine oil cooler has to withstand pressures which might reach(on a cold winter morning)100 psi. i'm sure you gentlemen can figure out the implications :y
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there is a very simple answer to all this, an auto gearbox cooler is designed to withstand virtually no pressure (as the return line to the box simply dumps the oil back into the sump)however your engine oil cooler has to withstand pressures which might reach(on a cold winter morning)100 psi. i'm sure you gentlemen can figure out the implications :y
A very thorough undersealing job and a total-loss oiling system? ;)
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Just realised exactly what model you have. Yes, your ATF cooler is oil/air :y :y
The Senator did use a small radiator in/under the front driver's side of the car for the engine oil, as suggested by Chris, it used a 'stat in the feed to it from the plate under the oil filter .............. often didn't work though. ;) ;)
LOL at andy, i did say so to begin with :P
anyway yeah, i dont like the earlier gearbox coolers built into the rads but even the external coolers, how cool do they keep the gearbox oil? it'd tend to get quite hot with sustained higher rpm driving e.g high speed pursuits, trackdays, getting quite enthusiastic on a country road in the case of the older gearbox coolers
alex
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there is a very simple answer to all this, an auto gearbox cooler is designed to withstand virtually no pressure (as the return line to the box simply dumps the oil back into the sump)however your engine oil cooler has to withstand pressures which might reach(on a cold winter morning)100 psi. i'm sure you gentlemen can figure out the implications :y
Yep.. Save a few pennies and destroy the engine when it goes pop on a cold start with thick oil. Get a proper oil cooler which are much more substantial than the transmission cooler, although you'll still be fixing that which isn't broke, IMHO.
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im not entirely convinced, i know atleast 1 volvo s60r that even has a PAS cooler although it does regular track days
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im not entirely convinced, i know atleast 1 volvo s60r that even has a PAS cooler although it does regular track days
your Omga has a PAS fluid cooler too ............... it's the plain tube at the front of the rad ;)
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More importantly, there is a question that has to be asked.....
....what causes an oil cooler to fail.
We all know the answer and we all know how to stop it happening