Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 07 March 2012, 00:49:01
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>:( >:( >:( >:( As per title!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
Bought a Pug 407 SW HDI Zenith in the auctions on Monday and picked it up yesterday (Tues). Its in nice condition, with a new MOT, 82000miles, needed a tyre, and a service. So I'm at the tyre place and enquired how much to service? "£95 and we can do it this afternoon!!" Great thinks I, and left them to it!!
Driving home and I'm struggling to get it up to 80 on the DC and I'm down to second on some of the steep A roads..... :o
So I'm thinking that they havn't bled the fuel system properly after putting the new fuel filter in?? :-\ Havn't had a chance to stick my head under the bonnet yet.... ::)
It starts and ticks over fine and drives OK, but no power!! It'll be going back later.... >:(
It's a really nice car despite this, and has more electronics than the Starship Enterprise!! The automatic headlights confused the hell out of me for a while!!!! :D :D :D
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Any vacc pipes or electrical connections loose? any fault lights?
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Which engine 1.6 or 2.0 ?
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Zeniths are 2.0 136 bhp. :)
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Unlikely to be air in the system or it would struggle to start and idle would be awful.
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Yes its the 2.0ltr.
As I said it starts and ticks over fine and revs up nicely and there are no warning lights or messages.
When I picked it up it had a "Water in fuel filter" message but that's gone now.
I've had a quick look now and can't see anything amiss like vac pipes or electrics out of place.
However the oil is as black as coal, so that hasn't been changed, so they probably didn't do the fuel filter either. It has got a new air filter.
I reckon he's changed the air filter, drained the water out of the fuel filter housing (possibly letting air into the fuel system) and reset the electronics! and relieved me of £95!!!
Unfortunatly, the place is 30 miles away and I can't get down there today, but they'll have a very pissed off Tigger on their hands tomorrow morning!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Unlikely to be air in the system or it would struggle to start and idle would be awful.
Aaah OK might it just need a new fuel filter then? ???
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Not uncommon for diesels to blacken the oil immediately, especially within 30 miles ;) More so if it was a little on the neglected side in it's previous life ::)
Sounds like they've disturbed a pipe/connector
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There is a small pipe on the expert hdi's that causes these symptoms,it comes off an intercooler hose to the bottom of a sensor(on the side of the battery tray) and causes lack of power as you say,it is only about 10 inches long and almost looks like old fashioned fuel pipe.
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OK. So I might be wrong about being ripped off then? ??? If so, it's probably just as well that I couldn't get in there today, as may well of made a right arse of myself! ::) :-[ I'll check the oil filter tomorrow, the fuel filter housing however has been wiped clean, so at least something has happened there! ::)
It was about 19,000 miles from the last service and without going out to look at the service book I'm not sure what the interval is? 20,000? seems abit long?
I'll have a look for this pipe that Hoodys mentioned!! :y
Thanks for the advice Guys!! I'll keep you posted!! OOF is a great calming influence as always!! :)
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Think the hdi is every 12500 miles :)
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It was about 19,000 miles from the last service..
That'll be why the oil's black. :o Check the filter for evidence of newness, though.
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Think the hdi is every 12500 miles :)
Can only answer for the Partner 1.6 HDi, which is 12500. Mind you, the same engine in an Expert is 20k ::) ::)
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I've just checked the sevice book and it's 20,000 miles. Seems a long time, but that's what it says! I'll have to remove the undertray to see the oil filter so I'll have a look this arvo and see if I can spot Hoodys pipe as well! :y
There is an electrical socket on the header tank with nothing connected to it, and judging by the crap in the connecter has been like this for a while. I can't see any loose cables tho... :-\ What does seem strange is that there are no warning lights or messages....... :-\
Thanks I'm feeling abit calmer about this now!
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also check the big boost hose to the turbo as they are known to tear go pop underneath.
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Hmmm! Starting to find my way around a Peugeot 2ltr HDi... ::)
What I'd assumed to be the fuel filter housing was in fact the oil filter housing :-[ and when I took off the engine cover, there is the fuel filter housing! Both look as if they have been disturbed! :)
There is abit of kit underneath the alternator with some red plastic housing, that has 2 vac pips coming from it, but it looks as if there should be 4 as there are 2 vac pipe 'terminals' with no vac pipes on the left side.
Is the big boost hose the one that goes from a small radiator (Intercooler?) to to inlet manifold and looks like a very large coolant pipe?? If so it looks OK and feels squidgy so I popped it off at the rad end and there was some oil residue in there.......
Might this be a turbo issue then?? :(
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sod 12500 miles between services :/ 10k if that if it were mine lol
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how squidgy is the squidgy boost pipe? sometimes they can collapse so block airflow
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Very squidgy! but it's still in shape if you know what I mean? :-\
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I've been checking out some of the Peugeot forums and it seems that collapsing turbo pipes isn't unheard of......
I took it for a run yesterday and driving around town its fine, but it loses power when driven hard or up a steep hill. :-\
I'm going to have a look round the local scrappys today and see if I can find the pipes. Otherwise I've seen a universal turbo pipe on ebay for about £15 that might be worth a try...... :-\
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The issues you describe perfectly match the issues i had with the expert,the pipe i was referring you to is the map sensor pipe
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/407-Map-Sensor-2-0-Hdi-Manifold-Air-Pressure-2-0-Hdi-138hp-1-6-Hdi-20CZ-/400278665790?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d3277ba3e
the pipe attaches to the nipple underneath,not really obvious on the car but the pipe can come adrift or rub against something and hole the side of it(only takes a pinhole).
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sits next to intercooler pipe next to airbox/battery on a 407(so i am told)
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Brilliant! Thanks Hoody! :y I think I'll pull the battery out tomorrow, maybe it'll be more obvious... ::)
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This is a 406 clip but may be the same,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWER2TfOhkY
the map is the part shown at 4.06,only has a small hose by the looks of it
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Thanks again Hoody! :y I know what I'm looking for now!! Cheers!! :)
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Found it!! :)
It's sited in a housing with a butterfly valve (throttle body?), that has the turbo boost pipe going in one side then it's bolted to the inlet manifold. There's no pipe it's just bolted on to the valve housing. I've stripped it all down and everything was caked in oil, so everything has had a good clean. There's another sensor bolted to this housing which has a delicate looking filament loop with what looks like a diode in it, and that was caked in crud and oil, nice and clean now!! :y
I'm going out now to put it all back together and keep everything crossed!!!! ::)
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Alas!! No difference!! :'(
It must be an electronic issue tho, as it's fine from start up and then after a few minutes the turbo will stop working...... :( Although there's no messages on the screen and the EML goes out, I might take it somewhere to plug it in to see if there are any codes... :-\
Thanks again for your help Hoody!! :y
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try cleaning the air temperature sensor too,been told it is the "green one" next to the map.
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I think that's the other one that I cleaned yesterday Hoody... :-\
I've had a good look round the Peugeot forum and it might be an issue with the Diesel Particulate Filter being blocked? Apparently they need a good run now and again to blow them out or "regenerate"? Or failing that taking off and cleaning.... :-\
I'm going to try an Italian tune up the motorway this afternoon!! :D
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Quick update.... :-\
I eventually admitted defeat and booked it in with a local independant peugeot specialist. They plugged it into their Peugeot Planet system and told me it needed a new MAF sensor, air temperature sensor, and turbo solenoid (the one that works the waste gate) and it would come to £400 as the turbo is tucked away at the back of the engine and changing the solenoid is time consuming.... :-\
So I reluctantly gave the go ahead and they phoned the next day to say that they had done the work but the turbo was still cutting out and there is a vacuum issue, which they'll look into. ::)
Now I'm wondering if it was the vacuum issue causing the solenoid not to work in the first place, and they've just changed parts that came up on the code reader rather than some good old fashioned mechanicing.... :-\
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Quick update.... :-\
I eventually admitted defeat and booked it in with a local independant peugeot specialist. They plugged it into their Peugeot Planet system and told me it needed a new MAF sensor, air temperature sensor, and turbo solenoid (the one that works the waste gate) and it would come to £400 as the turbo is tucked away at the back of the engine and changing the solenoid is time consuming.... :-\
So I reluctantly gave the go ahead and they phoned the next day to say that they had done the work but the turbo was still cutting out and there is a vacuum issue, which they'll look into. ::)
Now I'm wondering if it was the vacuum issue causing the solenoid not to work in the first place, and they've just changed parts that came up on the code reader rather than some good old fashioned mechanicing.... :-\
Are you surprised.....did we not say vaccum issue at the beginning ;) ;D :y
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Quick update.... :-\
I eventually admitted defeat and booked it in with a local independant peugeot specialist. They plugged it into their Peugeot Planet system and told me it needed a new MAF sensor, air temperature sensor, and turbo solenoid (the one that works the waste gate) and it would come to £400 as the turbo is tucked away at the back of the engine and changing the solenoid is time consuming.... :-\
So I reluctantly gave the go ahead and they phoned the next day to say that they had done the work but the turbo was still cutting out and there is a vacuum issue, which they'll look into. ::)
Now I'm wondering if it was the vacuum issue causing the solenoid not to work in the first place, and they've just changed parts that came up on the code reader rather than some good old fashioned mechanicing.... :-\
You just know they have ::)
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Yep, I know..... I deserve a good dose of told you so's..... ::) Still bloody agravating tho and I can feel a dispute coming on! >:(
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Bloody right. Your quiet within your rights to tell them to refit the old solenoid