Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: bigtow on 09 April 2012, 19:36:11

Title: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: bigtow on 09 April 2012, 19:36:11
has anyone looked into fitting a 6 speed manual onto a 3.2 just curious as if it has or if it could be done ?
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: Andy B on 09 April 2012, 19:42:57
has anyone looked into fitting a 6 speed manual onto a 3.2 just curious as if it has or if it could be done ?

Why would you want/need to?
6 speeders are normally fitted to car with a narrow torque band so that you can make the most of what you have.  :y :y

Any ............. an Omege should have a 4 speed auto fitted  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: bigtow on 09 April 2012, 20:03:08
i am thinking more for economy than anything else as much as i love my new mv6 24 mpg is killing me at the moment my 3.0 manual was getting 28-35 on a run ? can 200 cc really make that much difference
 
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: 2woody on 09 April 2012, 21:31:26
the 2.6 engine is usually equipped with a really short diff, revving much higher for a given vehicle speed in order to preserve some of the performance. That'll be where the economy has gone. My 2.6 manual is maybe 5mpg adrift of my 3.0 manual.

Forget six-speeders, although technically possible, it'll cost far more than the car's worth to do.
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: TheBoy on 09 April 2012, 22:07:40
i am thinking more for economy than anything else as much as i love my new mv6 24 mpg is killing me at the moment my 3.0 manual was getting 28-35 on a run ? can 200 cc really make that much difference
 
The DBW engines are definately less economical than their non DBW parents.
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: albitz on 09 April 2012, 22:09:11
Progress - In the usual GM style. :y
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: ngrainqey on 09 April 2012, 22:24:42
i am thinking more for economy than anything else as much as i love my new mv6 24 mpg is killing me at the moment my 3.0 manual was getting 28-35 on a run ? can 200 cc really make that much difference
 
The DBW engines are definately less economical than their non DBW parents.

i noticed this, 3.0 ex plodder used to do more than the 3.2 does even with the manual box on,
i've looked at 6 speed 'boxes and the one to go for is the tremec T56 from the holden/corvette/dodge vipers IMO but will be pricey lol, easily £1200
have a look on corvette parts or commodore/monaro parts websites
alex
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: doz on 09 April 2012, 22:34:52
Is that the same six speed box as fitted to the Lotus Carlton?
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: VXL V6 on 09 April 2012, 22:41:34
Is that the same six speed box as fitted to the Lotus Carlton?

Yeh, seem to recall it was a Corvette gearbox in the LC.

Mind you, look at the issues they have in later life......

Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: ngrainqey on 09 April 2012, 22:52:22
IIRC isnt it the early version of said g'box?
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: doz on 09 April 2012, 23:00:29
LC box is pretty bullet proof but would be completely useless in a Omega. It's such high ratio even the LC doesn't really like doing 70 in 6th. I know the Diff ratio will be lower but I can't help think it will still cause the 3.2 to bog down and not be able to pull it. I've noticed in the LC the fuel economy is better in 5th than 6th unless your pushing on. TBH it's a pretty useless box in the LC 
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: RobseyMV6 on 09 April 2012, 23:07:23
Is that the same six speed box as fitted to the Lotus Carlton?

Yeh, seem to recall it was a Corvette gearbox in the LC.

Mind you, look at the issues they have in later life......

My box is ok 50k done and had hard life!! 650BHP running in it
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: RobseyMV6 on 09 April 2012, 23:09:16
LC box is pretty bullet proof but would be completely useless in a Omega. It's such high ratio even the LC doesn't really like doing 70 in 6th. I know the Diff ratio will be lower but I can't help think it will still cause the 3.2 to bog down and not be able to pull it. I've noticed in the LC the fuel economy is better in 5th than 6th unless your pushing on. TBH it's a pretty useless box in the LC

6 gear in my car pulls at 70 like in 3rd in omega 3.2
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: ngrainqey on 09 April 2012, 23:29:29
just to point out theres about 8 different combinations of gear ratios available in these boxes
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: doz on 09 April 2012, 23:36:16
From memory. I haven't driven it for over a year but 70 is around the 2k mark maybe a little less
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: dbug on 10 April 2012, 00:20:44
My advice to OP - if you want a 6 speed g/box buy a car with one fitted as standard  :y
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: 2woody on 11 April 2012, 11:50:19
for reference....

Holden cars use the Tremec T56
Lotus Carlton uses a ZF gearbox

Neither fit the Omega bellhousing

Both are specced for twice the Omega power/torque and as such are completely unsuitable.

Neither fit down the Omega transmission tunnel - both are HUGE.
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: VXL V6 on 11 April 2012, 23:39:40
Is that the same six speed box as fitted to the Lotus Carlton?

Yeh, seem to recall it was a Corvette gearbox in the LC.

Mind you, look at the issues they have in later life......

My box is ok 50k done and had hard life!! 650BHP running in it

I was referring to the cracks that appear in the bellhousing.....
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: Andy B on 11 April 2012, 23:43:10
From memory. I haven't driven it for over a year but 70 is around the 2k mark maybe a little less

I thought a Lotus Carlton had a ratio of 1000rpm per 50mph in 6th  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ Never driven one, just read about them.  ;D
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: doz on 12 April 2012, 02:36:59
You maybe right I can't honestly remember. What I do remember is cruising at 80 and getting a pretty decent 37 MPG. However then there's the other end of the scale where you can actually watch the fuel needle move as the tank empties. If I could ever find a suitable place (safely and legally) apparently at flat out the tank will empty in approx 20 minutes. Which is just as well as Lotus found that the diff over heated and shagged after 40 minutes of running.
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: albitz on 12 April 2012, 08:06:33
From memory. I haven't driven it for over a year but 70 is around the 2k mark maybe a little less

I thought a Lotus Carlton had a ratio of 1000rpm per 50mph in 6th  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ Never driven one, just read about them.  ;D

200mph @ 400rpm ?  :-\
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: henryd on 12 April 2012, 09:11:11
From memory. I haven't driven it for over a year but 70 is around the 2k mark maybe a little less

I thought a Lotus Carlton had a ratio of 1000rpm per 50mph in 6th  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ Never driven one, just read about them.  ;D

200mph @ 400rpm ?  :-\

Now thats high gearing unless you mean 4000rpm which is still pretty tall ???
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: aaronjb on 12 April 2012, 09:12:40
From memory. I haven't driven it for over a year but 70 is around the 2k mark maybe a little less

I thought a Lotus Carlton had a ratio of 1000rpm per 50mph in 6th  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ Never driven one, just read about them.  ;D

200mph @ 4000rpm ?  :-\

Quite believable - mathematically.. wind resistance and the power required means it'd almost certainly never get there ;) (Many, many cars have a higher top speed in 4th than 5th, for example)

I worked out my desired gearing on the kit recently, in order to get a 'decent' cruise (i.e. 15mpg instead of 8mpg ;D) and it meant the 'theoretical' top speed in 6th was north of 250mph.. of course I know it would never get there, the Cobra has the aerodynamics of a brick ;) (Nor do I possess the bottle!)
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: doz on 12 April 2012, 10:19:55
LC top speed reached in 5th at 177 MPH. However 5th doesn't rev out let alone 6th. As you can see by my original statement. Gearing is silly high and won't be any good for a mig.
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: TheBoy on 12 April 2012, 18:09:29
wind resistance and the power required means it'd almost certainly never get there ;) (Many, many cars have a higher top speed in 4th than 5th, for example)
My old works 1.8d (non turbo) Escort van used to be on the governer at 70mph in 3rd. 4th and 5th never used, as they were slower...  ...except once when I got in a transit's slipstream, and had 90 downhill on the M25. Transit was edging away, lost the slipstream, back into 3rd to maintain 70mph
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 12 April 2012, 19:43:27
From memory. I haven't driven it for over a year but 70 is around the 2k mark maybe a little less

I thought a Lotus Carlton had a ratio of 1000rpm per 50mph in 6th  :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ Never driven one, just read about them.  ;D


44.1 M.P.H per 1,000 R.P.M in 6th gear.......according to the 1990 road test by Autocar magazine. More of an overdrive really.

It cost £48,000 way back then, too....... :o :o :o :o...( I paid £41,000 for a three bed semi in the same year)
 
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 April 2012, 20:10:48
44.1 M.P.H per 1,000 R.P.M in 6th gear.......according to the 1990 road test by Autocar magazine. More of an overdrive really.


More of an "oh, no. These ratios are no use".
"Er.. It's the only box in the parts bin"
"Sod it, then"

Fairly typical Lotus, in fact. ;D
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: 2woody on 16 April 2012, 22:00:14
Spot-on.

Lotus developed the 32-valve Corvette ZR-1 powertrain, which of course included the ZF gearbox. Available before the T56 was thought of.
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: GastronomicKleptomaniac on 16 April 2012, 22:07:08
44.1 M.P.H per 1,000 R.P.M in 6th gear.......according to the 1990 road test by Autocar magazine. More of an overdrive really.


More of an "oh, no. These ratios are no use".
"Er.. It's the only box in the parts bin"
"Sod it, then"

Fairly typical Lotus, in fact. ;D

 ;D
Title: Re: 6 speed onto a 3.2
Post by: 05omegav6 on 17 April 2012, 06:21:18
44.1 M.P.H per 1,000 R.P.M in 6th gear.......according to the 1990 road test by Autocar magazine. More of an overdrive really.


More of an "oh, no. These ratios are no use".
"Er.. It's the only box in the parts bin"
"Sod it, then"

Fairly typical Lotus, in fact. ;D
At least they didn't try and force a Renault 25 gearbox into it ;D

Wait a minute... How about a mid engine super charged big block Omega using said Renault box ::)