Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: kennny on 29 April 2012, 22:03:51
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Ive been toying with the idea of lowering my mv6 tourer but wondered if i bought -40mm springs would it lower it 40mm or would it be less considering the mv6 already has slightly lowered suspension?
Any help would be appreciated.
Kenny
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Mv6 tourer... Does such a thing exist? :-\
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Mv6 estate then ::)
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Most lowering kits state how much the lower the car from standard. The MV6 suspension sits 15mm lower than standard already, so if quoted as 40mm drop, then I would expect you to only see a drop of 25mm on your car.
Just my opinion, but I would leave the MV6 suspension well alone. :y
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In that case as Twiglet says. I'd suggest not lowering below 30mill tbh. (ie 15mill lower than mv6 lowered sports chassis of the face lift mv6) as rear camber will be compromised possibly requiring a corection kit and making the ride unpleasant. But then if lowering for appearance only, non of that will be important.
All lowering kits work from the standard ride height. Mv6 is non standard ride height on face lift.
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Yeah its a facelift. its more for looks to be honest. maybe just a set of 19" snowflakes then instead of lowering. just think it sits too high at the back. looks like its on stilts lol
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The rear ride height will be needed with any sort of load or course.
Front will restrict wheel/tyre size. Be careful not to foul strut upright and spring cup. Unless you go bigger on the rear, where there is loads of room.
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Do you know what the biggest size i could have on the front is by any chance?
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Depends on the wheel size and offset as to what tyre size to go for.
I have no experience with 19, 18's currently, and wouldn't go to 19 anyway. IMO there won't be enough tyre side wall left. First point of suspension is the tyre, so that won't help ride or grip level with too much wheel and not enough tyre. Although if for appearance only non of that will matter.
IME...
Front 18
On 8j et38, up to 245 40 18. although this is tight with rim protection at -1.10 camber.
On 8j et30, as above except the extra et of 8mill means the rim protection has more clearance to the shock body.
Rear
Loads of room, but 9j et38 with 265 40 18 currently fitted.
Ps, if you want the car to drive straight avoid Falkens of any flavour.
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Do you know what the biggest size i could have on the front is by any chance?
22" is the biggest I've seen. The tyre was like a rubber band on the wheel though (at a very early PVS, I think, definitely a car show).
I had 19" on mine - 235 35 on the front (that's them in my Avatar) - no problem at all. However, having lowered mine by 20mm (on a CDX) and done the bigger wheel thing, it was like driving on no suspension at all. Even the smallest hole/bump/imperfection was felt and magnified. I used the Eibach/Bilstein combo.
It got worse when I put 275 30 on the rears. My N/S/R tyre shredded on the A12 last September (Brand new CS2!) having hit a pot hole and I was very glad that I didn't have any one else in the car with me. UK roads are not suitable (IMO) for large wheel/low profile tyres on heavy cars
I did change mine for aesthetics but found it too uncomfortable to live with as a daily driver (far too many complaints from passengers as well!).
If I could afford to run more than 1 car, I'd probably have a saloon with bigger wheels and lowered suspension as a showcar/occasional use driver.
I've returned to 17" wheels and won't be changing for larger any time soon.
You might want to talk with 2Woody about Omega tyre sizes. It was designed to be driven on 195's (on a 15 or 16 inch wheel), and anything larger is overtyred. He was driving one of his this winter on 195's and said it 'was a hoot to drive'.
HTH
Matthew
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and here's the bit about the tyre size he told me about
"To answer "what am I doing to the car ?" then in short, you are chasing away good handling in favour of more grip and "looks". Think of it as a bowler - handling is the ability to bend the ball via spin, making the ball do exactly as you want. Grip is simply bowling as fast as you can - you cannot do both. An Omega B needs 195-section tyres, no more. At that point, the car handles excellently, giving you the best control. This is indeed what the chassis was designed with ( Carlton ). Since then, the fashion has been to ever bigger wheels. To these, you need to fit low profile tyres to keep to the same wrpm. But, this hurts the comfort and handling.
An Omega B on 235s is actually quite over-tyred - something you can tell when driving, especially at the front. I'm currently running my MV6 on 195 snow tyres and it's an absolute hoot to drive. Its certainly no faster on 235s and I wouldn't say it handles any better, either.
As another comparison, I'm running just over 400 hp in the Holden, on 245's all round. Even at that power level, I'd still say its over-tyred.
hope this all helps..... ( you can post it if you want )"
HTH
Matthew
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To add my last, with 18 irmscher sport stars, I believe the preferred width was 225.
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I'm running Irmscher ET38 18's with 235/40x18 tyres all round on my Facelift 3.2 Elite Estate and she rides lovely. My intention is to fit new MV6 lsc shocks and springs to the front, and springs to the rear, whilst retaining the self leveling shocks. This should sharpen up the handling nicely, without losing too much ride comfort. :y
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To add my last, with 18 irmscher sport stars, I believe the preferred width was 225.
225s on 8x18 inch wheels look rubbish and leave it totally exposed to kerbing.
This size suits an Astra or Vectra but just looks plain wrong on the mig - sorry!
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I'm running Irmscher ET38 18's with 235/40x18 tyres all round on my Facelift 3.2 Elite Estate and she rides lovely. My intention is to fit new MV6 lsc shocks and springs to the front, and springs to the rear, whilst retaining the self leveling shocks. This should sharpen up the handling nicely, without losing too much ride comfort. :y
Pretty certain gayboyGixer tried that (admittedly on saloon), and it didn't work too well...
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Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.
And TB, i260 rekons your car looks like a crap Astra. ;D
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And TB, i260 rekons your car looks like a crap Astra. ;D
235 on mine. Don't want to go wider for fear of buggering up the handling.
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Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.
Correct Chris. I really don't want to lose the self leveling if I can help it. I realise this is always going to be a compromise, but surely at the end of the day, MV6 lsc with S/L shocks can only ever be an improvement on standard elite suspension? :-\
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Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.
Correct Chris. I really don't want to lose the self leveling if I can help it. I realise this is always going to be a compromise, but surely at the end of the day, MV6 lsc with S/L shocks can only ever be an improvement on standard elite suspension? :-\
Absolutely. ANYTHING is better than Elite suspension. It's hopeless. Although very comfortable...for those "steadier" moments.
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Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
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Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D
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Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D
You could always cut a hole in the floor and dig your heels in ;D ;D
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And TB, i260 rekons your car looks like a crap Astra. ;D
235 on mine. Don't want to go wider for fear of buggering up the handling.
sure I saw 225 on there? Anyway, 10mm differance between a crap Astra and a non crap omega...? That's a fine line.
245 on mine. I think you lot know me well enough by now to know if there was an issue with that size, or any handling issues with the car, I'd be on here moaning about it long before now?
Only issues I have, slightly too harsh over broken surfaces. A knock from the front believed to be wheel baring play, but we'll see. And the back sits about 15mill too low, needs some levelling capability when fully loaded. Mostly due to LPG tank. Other than that I can't fault it.
Oh, and pas is too stiff, possibly top mount barings pitted causing that, again, we'll see. Seems worse turning one way.
Anyway, non of that can be attributed to tyre width. And the tyres on there are over half worn. Veeeery slight tram line starting to creap in with sc3's. But I'd expect that, if not worse, with any other tyre. Re fit the oe wheels and tram lining is worse.
So IMO it's more down to tyre construction and wear to the profile than an extra few mill either side of the wheel centre line. I can't see 5 or 10mm extra width of contact patch making much odds to handling. Certainly, on another front, 8mill differance in offset between et30 and et38 makes no odds at all to handling! ( other than 16mill wider track)
(note, minor issue with sc3 245with rim protection rubbing the shock upright on more camber than 1.20. 1.10 is fine. But I have the stock 235 45 17 with Potenza+rim protection and they won't physically go on the front at all on either side, as the shock is in the way. When I got the car they where on the back, with non rim protection on the front.)
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Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
"Stigo" agrees. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Prks8Sdq9Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Need to watch to the end.
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In that case as Twiglet says. I'd suggest not lowering below 30mill tbh. (ie 15mill lower than mv6 lowered sports chassis of the face lift mv6) as rear camber will be compromised possibly requiring a corection kit and making the ride unpleasant. But then if lowering for appearance only, non of that will be important.
All lowering kits work from the standard ride height. Mv6 is non standard ride height on face lift.
Can I pick your brains Chris?
1998 Beemer 318 iS 4 door saloon (E36), came with the complete M-Sport pack from factory.
The M-Sport pack gives a 15mm F/11mm R drop over a standard 318 iS, and the M-Sport tyre size is 225/50 16 (stock 318 iS is 205/60 15).
A pair of rear M-Sport springs is £320 so I've gone down the road of buying a complete set of Koni lowering springs that give a 40mm F/20mm R drop on a stock 318iS.
As I'm already dropped by 15mm F/11mm R I do believe the kit I have bought will give a real life drop of 25mm F/9mm R over what I already have, and the springs are certified for use with the stock M-Sport shocks.
Front suspension is Macpherson struts on trailing arms and the camber angle is fixed, although you can buy 3rd party washers to apply very minor adjustments should they be required.
Rear suspension is independant wishbone and the camber is adjustable.
A 25mm drop on the front will leave me with 105mm of ground clearance between the spoiler & the tarmac. Aside from some speed humps possibly requiring some care when traversing them, can you envisage any other potential pitfalls in dropping the car that much?
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Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.
Correct Chris. I really don't want to lose the self leveling if I can help it. I realise this is always going to be a compromise, but surely at the end of the day, MV6 lsc with S/L shocks can only ever be an improvement on standard elite suspension? :-\
on my 1999 3.0MV6 estate im running 30mm drop front springs & bmw E46 rear spings giving me a 45mm drop on rear so she sits level, ive kept my S/L rear shocks but adjusted the hight sensor in which they get pressurised, prob easyer on a 4post ramp but 4 wheel ramps do the job so you can get under it, with car empty it sits perfect!! nice & level, i adjusted the sensor just under ride hight so they have a small amount of psi to inflate the bags, i then loaded the boot with as much stuff + bit more that i would norm carry & then started up car, it lifted it up level again, car drives well but kinda soft on heavy hoofing round roundabouts when loaded, but if you start playing with a piece from this & lets try that etc like me it will take you ages to get a happy medium, buy a proven kit & check the mmdrop before you buy because some dont drop the rears!!! only a 30mm front rear 0mm
BUT ONLY 2 ISSUES!! 45mm drop on rear is too much so on mv6 over standard thats 60mm im running to get it level! i have to cross bridge speedbumps sideways & i still hit the cats & center boxes!! or slam towbar into hump if i go over slightly to quick! & by quick i mean over 5-10mph so you can tell i piss other road users off alot!! You will need to reset your rear camber my rears are pitched in at top but havent been able to adjust as they are seized!!
now tyres, i got the car on 15"steels with 185/70/15s it spun both rears on every junction! then fitted 225/60/15s & had no probs drives great bumps in road hardly noticable, 225/55/16s would be standard size on elite 16 wheels,
i then fitted 17s 225 45 17 winter tyres as i had a set, but way to small look stupid bit bumpy ride & speedo wrong but handled great in that size etc! tbh,
The rears were low so fitted new uniroyal2s 245/40/17s & still drove great but a little more bumpy from rear,
Then wore fronts out & fitted partworn 245/40/17s all round!! WOW Big mistake!! very hard ride & from the front wondered & pulls all over the place nearly wrote car off few times! & wont corner in wet as front size to wide & more grip from rear!
Now as for 19s!! ive got a set off an oof member who's already commented on here! 8.5"js all round running a 235/35/19 front & 265/30/19 rear but ive managed 2 source a matching pair of 10"j rears! but im going up to a 275/35/19 so the ride wont be as harsh! i hope!! i keep you posted on how they go!
ive got a mate whos got a set of 5 vectra vxr 19" snowflakes for £450/£500
but if you buy vectra astra corsa 5x110 wheels you will need a 5/10mm spacer & longer bolts due to offset!!
If anybody wishes to view a pic of my estate on the 15s or 17s slammed on its arse PM Me with a mob number & i send you a pic
2bh eveyone has there own opinion on what drives best when it comes to tyres/wheels but if you have 17" fit a 235 45 17 uniroyal2 grip like hell wet or dry!! or a 16" wheel 225/55/16 is a good happy medium but tyres are getting harder to find...
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Ive been toying with the idea of lowering my mv6 tourer but wondered if i bought -40mm springs would it lower it 40mm or would it be less considering the mv6 already has slightly lowered suspension?
Any help would be appreciated.
Kenny
-40mm on a standard vehical ride height so you would only notice a 25mm drop. but on -40mm you will need to adjust rear tracking & some garages wont touch it!! dont go too low on front or you will damage your cats on humps & your sump!! "been there done that"
ive been messing with mine for 5mths & just got it how i want it, 35-55ish
if it has S/L rear shocks & you tow with it dont lower it!!
but buy best you can afford cheep springs sagg & snap ebiach proven & are the best, i was skint so i used other manufactures rear springs till i got ride hight i wanted...
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In that case as Twiglet says. I'd suggest not lowering below 30mill tbh. (ie 15mill lower than mv6 lowered sports chassis of the face lift mv6) as rear camber will be compromised possibly requiring a corection kit and making the ride unpleasant. But then if lowering for appearance only, non of that will be important.
All lowering kits work from the standard ride height. Mv6 is non standard ride height on face lift.
Can I pick your brains Chris?
1998 Beemer 318 iS 4 door saloon (E36), came with the complete M-Sport pack from factory.
The M-Sport pack gives a 15mm F/11mm R drop over a standard 318 iS, and the M-Sport tyre size is 225/50 16 (stock 318 iS is 205/60 15).
A pair of rear M-Sport springs is £320 so I've gone down the road of buying a complete set of Koni lowering springs that give a 40mm F/20mm R drop on a stock 318iS.
As I'm already dropped by 15mm F/11mm R I do believe the kit I have bought will give a real life drop of 25mm F/9mm R over what I already have, and the springs are certified for use with the stock M-Sport shocks.
Front suspension is Macpherson struts on trailing arms and the camber angle is fixed, although you can buy 3rd party washers to apply very minor adjustments should they be required.
Rear suspension is independant wishbone and the camber is adjustable.
A 25mm drop on the front will leave me with 105mm of ground clearance between the spoiler & the tarmac. Aside from some speed humps possibly requiring some care when traversing them, can you envisage any other potential pitfalls in dropping the car that much?
sorry M ment to get back to this earlier. Er. Dunno. Basically! Not familiar with that model and the suspension design. I'm aware the camber is non adjustable on e39s and would expect it and yours to need a correction if altering ride height. The two m sports I've encountered have been way to harsh IMO. So I'd be reluctant to do anything to worsen that aspect. Although I wonder if your trailing arm/independent wishbone description re front and rear is back to front...?
Ps given the Marque I hope your impressed I have not recomended a box of matches? ;)
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Just want to thank you all for your help.. Your all definatley more knowledgable than me. I dont think my car has self levelling suspension and is never used for towing or carrying any weight. I bought the estate as i personally prefer them to the saloon. I dont want anything too drastic that it affects the ride. Id love to have 19" snowflakes at some point so may just consider buying those first and seeing how it sits before i decide to lower.
Again many thanks for the information.
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Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D
Kevin Wood? Brakes? On a Westfield? Why?
Our Mr Wood prefers to use grass banks, and central reservations to slow down ::)
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Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D
Kevin Wood? Brakes? On a Westfield? Why?
Our Mr Wood prefers to use grass banks, and central reservations to slow down ::)
Ooooh he won't thank you for that one.. ;D
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Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D
Kevin Wood? Brakes? On a Westfield? Why?
Our Mr Wood prefers to use grass banks, and central reservations to slow down ::)
Ooooh he won't thank you for that one.. ;D
Bugger, and he knows where I live :-[
;D
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Mv6 stuff seems to handle nice, very controlled. Pi's are softer with similar roll but lower, not as steady. Weistecs are good, similar stiffness to mv6 buy I was running wagon versions on a saloon, eibachs on now which are ok, similar to the weistecs to be honest. All the lowering springs are around 35mm from standard, if there was a shorter mv6 spring I'd run that though I think although the eibachs aren't far off, next step will be cool overs anyway
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Mv6 stuff seems to handle nice, very controlled. Pi's are softer with similar roll but lower, not as steady. Weistecs are good, similar stiffness to mv6 buy I was running wagon versions on a saloon, eibachs on now which are ok, similar to the weistecs to be honest. All the lowering springs are around 35mm from standard, if there was a shorter mv6 spring I'd run that though I think although the eibachs aren't far off, next step will be cool overs anyway
It is not just the spring that affects the ride height - your choice of shock absorber will play a part too. For example, running the Eibach spring with Bilstein B4 will ride a little heigher than with the B8 as the B8 is a shortened body for lowering springs whereas the B4 is designed for a standard height (although will work with up to -30mm) and will be trying to hold up at a standard height. Sililarly, if you are going to put lowering springs on with your 100k oem shocks then the end result is anybodys guess but the ride will be a bit squiffy and you will have missed a good opportunity to do a good job.
Good luck whatever!
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Lol, it drifted around the longest track corner in Europe at the top of 4th gear ok ;)
Also have polys at the front and I know they are not the shocks it left the factory on from the police repair and service report. At the same time, I was never going to go mad with it as it clearly does the job I want it to do...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/GmasterT/untitled3.jpg)
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Lol, it drifted around the longest track corner in Europe at the top of 4th gear ok ;)
Also have polys at the front and I know they are not the shocks it left the factory on from the police repair and service report. At the same time, I was never going to go mad with it as it clearly does the job I want it to do...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/GmasterT/untitled3.jpg)
Awesome pic btw george!! shame no body has a camera when im hooning mine around!! :'(
Defo got to come down soon mate & as yet no body has fully confurmed what omega uses a 3.45 diff....
"Kennny" rem if you run the 19" snowflakes off an astra vectra or zafira you will need a 5-10mm spacer & longer bolts due to the offset the front wheel drive cars run, the tyre will poss rub the front struts & your tyres will last under 10miles! Not good,
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Hello; does anybody know how to change a broken rear spring suspension on a vauxhall omega 2002 2.2.
need to know ASAP as in need of urgent repair
thank you
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90537.0
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Hello; does anybody know how to change a broken rear spring suspension on a vauxhall omega 2002 2.2.
need to know ASAP as in need of urgent repair
thank you
Hey mate, you should really start your own thread, not keep posting the same stuff on other peoples threads. You'll only piss them off ;) It's called thread hijacking!!
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Hello; does anybody know how to change a broken rear spring suspension on a vauxhall omega 2002 2.2.
need to know ASAP as in need of urgent repair
thank you
Hey mate, you should really start your own thread, not keep posting the same stuff on other peoples threads. You'll only piss them off ;) It's called thread hijacking!!
......... and just ask your question on the one thread, not carpet bomb the place ???
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Hello; does anybody know how to change a broken rear spring suspension on a vauxhall omega 2002 2.2.
need to know ASAP as in need of urgent repair
thank you
Hey mate, you should really start your own thread, not keep posting the same stuff on other peoples threads. You'll only piss them off ;) It's called thread hijacking!!
Especially when the threads are OLD!
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Hello; does anybody know how to change a broken rear spring suspension on a vauxhall omega 2002 2.2.
need to know ASAP as in need of urgent repair
thank you
Beard,you have pm although RobG has already posted the link you need :y