Yeah, never had an issue with FAG... thats not a double entendre! ;DI am waiting for TB to pipe up. ;D
So, i put it to oof...
The inner race does not exist separately. It is machined into the hub itself, and the races pop in to that, then the outer races in turn pop in to those.
There is no separate baring complete, that presses into the hub.
Tell me I'm wrong. :)
vx don't sell it as it doesn't exist. If it does I can't find it.So, i put it to oof...
The inner race does not exist separately. It is machined into the hub itself, and the races pop in to that, then the outer races in turn pop in to those.
There is no separate baring complete, that presses into the hub.
Tell me I'm wrong. :)
You're wrong.
The inner race often gets "left behind" on the stub shaft on removing the old bearing .. but must be removed.
Given the "right" kit a complete bearing can be pressed into the ABS ring that is really just a bearing carrier. Most places though sell the ABS ring/hub + bearing as a complete unit.
the bearing itself is shown as one of the portions of 24 here..VX don't sell it as a seperate item
http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/front_axle_and_suspension/front_hub.html
Does that make sense.... ? :-\
Parts in the pic...
Conti Shite jobby
Hub at the top
Barring races on the left
Inboard inner race at the bottom
Outboard inner race on the right
Seal bottom right corner
There is nothing else to take apart, afaict...?
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/641a49ca.jpg)
the shiny bit in that photo should tap out through the back if you chisel from the wheel sideThat is the wheel side. The hole at the back of the picture is the outboard smaller side.
......And I can't see how they can. :-\
.......
the shiny bit in that photo should tap out through the back if you chisel from the wheel sideThat is the wheel side. The hole at the back of the picture is the outboard smaller side.
.....
is there a lip in that bearing ring that you could knock it out .....
.....
is there a lip in that bearing ring that you could knock it out .....
there would be if you welded one in ;) ;) ;) :y
.....
is there a lip in that bearing ring that you could knock it out .....
there would be if you welded one in ;) ;) ;) :y
aye,true enough :y :y
If that race was seperate to the hub, the hub (and the wheel) would fall off. Leaving the bearing on the stub axle.
The outer race is machined into the hub. Or put it another way, the hub IS the outer race.
If that race was seperate to the hub, the hub (and the wheel) would fall off. Leaving the bearing on the stub axle.
The outer race is machined into the hub. Or put it another way, the hub IS the outer race.
Which side are you talking about?
the race shown in this picture HAS to be a separate seat, it'll seat right up to a shoulder machined in the hub (& presumably the same on the other side so that as you tighten the hub nut you load up the pair of bearings) (http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/641a49ca.jpg)
....
the bearing race will be hardened steel but the rest of the hub isn't therefore its seperate
There are two races in the pic. The one you see, and one behind it. It's double sided one either side of the same central ridge.If that race was seperate to the hub, the hub (and the wheel) would fall off. Leaving the bearing on the stub axle.
The outer race is machined into the hub. Or put it another way, the hub IS the outer race.
Which side are you talking about?
the race shown in this picture HAS to be a separate seat, it'll seat right up to a shoulder machined in the hub (& presumably the same on the other side so that as you tighten the hub nut you load up the pair of bearings) (http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/641a49ca.jpg)
... If the central ridge was separately pressed in, the weight of the car would lever the hub off the baring.The shoulder is machined (or not - whichever way you look at it) into the hub :y
1.Is there any reason the inside of the hub couldn't be hardened in a seperate process?Cost. ;) ;)
2. Can somebody show me the baring complete to be pressed in?Sorry! I just bought my hub/bearing & paid someone else to fit it on the basis I was too bone idle to do it myself. ::) ::)
;D Right, so you argued earlier, which bit of the hub pictured needs to be removed? There's nothing left to remove Andy. ;D... If the central ridge was separately pressed in, the weight of the car would lever the hub off the baring.The shoulder is machined (or not - whichever way you look at it) into the hub :y1.Is there any reason the inside of the hub couldn't be hardened in a seperate process?Cost. ;) ;)2. Can somebody show me the baring complete to be pressed in?Sorry! I just bought my hub/bearing & paid someone else to fit it on the basis I was too bone idle to do it myself. ::) ::)
.....
;D Right, so you argued earlier, which bit of the hub pictured needs to be removed? There's nothing left to remove Andy. ;D
What? ;D.....
;D Right, so you argued earlier, which bit of the hub pictured needs to be removed? There's nothing left to remove Andy. ;D
Did I ??? ::)
Still say that the bearing outers back up to a central shoulder inside the hub. If you remember back to Newent, MarksDTm was trying to 'polish' a little off the mating faces of the two inners to take up the slack in the hub as a whole - an alternative to that would be a few 'thou' shim under one of the outers.
Or buy OE ;) ;)
I reckon the races will come out. ;)The races are already out. ;)
The whole lot is sandwiched together by the hub nut so it can't move, that's why the wheel doesn't come off.
No! ;D
Plus can we get the old hubs and see about fitting new bearings?
I reckon the races will come out. ;)The races are already out. ;)
The whole lot is sandwiched together by the hub nut so it can't move, that's why the wheel doesn't come off.
I reckon the races will come out. ;)The races are already out. ;)
The whole lot is sandwiched together by the hub nut so it can't move, that's why the wheel doesn't come off.
Kevin means the outers .......... ::)
I'll sort you out with a large slitting disc & then you can cut one in half to see what goes where .............. ;) ;) ;)I'll send you the hub and you can waist your time as well. :)
I'll sort you out with a large slitting disc & then you can cut one in half to see what goes where .............. ;) ;) ;)I'll send you the hub and you can waiste your time as well. :)
I reckon the races will come out. ;)The races are already out. ;)
The whole lot is sandwiched together by the hub nut so it can't move, that's why the wheel doesn't come off.
Kevin means the outers .......... ::)
I reckon the races will come out. ;)The races are already out. ;)
The whole lot is sandwiched together by the hub nut so it can't move, that's why the wheel doesn't come off.
Kevin means the outers .......... ::)
Actually I meant all 4 races. You've only got the outer races out so far. ;)
Surely you mean the two inners :-\ :-\ ie the two parts that butt up to each other when you tighten the hub nut
If you can get FAG Hub assy for sixty five quid is it really worth mucking about trying to fine bearings that fit and to try and fit them?Andy
Right last time.
I have the two inner races out that fit on the shaft of the stub axle. That's the inboard and out board inner stub axle ones as you can see. Then the two baring cages are out.
That still leaves two races still in the hub. Now, those two races are part of a central ridge, one side of which you can see in the pic taken from the wheel side/back of the hub. One race either side of the ridge. That ridge is part of the hub.
The hub is steel btw.
Look at it another way. The hub rotates as it must with the wheel fixed to it. If a baring complete is pressed into that, only the inner stub axle races are held by the nut. (There's no denying that otherwise the wheel won't turn.)there for only the inner stub axle races are attached to the car! The barings spin obviously then there's the hub spinning with the wheel. Now, as I've said before, ALL the cornering forces of the car go through that centre ridge in the hub. Can you imagine the strain thats under esp with TB driving? ;D The leverage will be incredible. More than enough leverage to over come any pressing in tonnage used to force a complete baring in.
We know over tightening the nut has a slight influence on wheel baring play. That means the two stub axle inner races are being forced onto that central ridge of the hub taking out some of that play.
The outer races in the hub as pictured need to be replaced if we are to refurb the hub with completely new baring. There for two more races need to come out of the hub. Yes?
....
Arhh. I'm confused too now. ....
Yes in order to refurb the baring fully. But that's the thing, the hub race is part of the hub. It's not a baring shell separate to the hub, there for it can not be removed. In turn, there is no refurbing the hub with a new baring, as the hub itself IS the outer baring shell.Right last time.
I have the two inner races out that fit on the shaft of the stub axle. That's the inboard and out board inner stub axle ones as you can see. Then the two baring cages are out.
That still leaves two races still in the hub. Now, those two races are part of a central ridge, one side of which you can see in the pic taken from the wheel side/back of the hub. One race either side of the ridge. That ridge is part of the hub.
The hub is steel btw.
Look at it another way. The hub rotates as it must with the wheel fixed to it. If a baring complete is pressed into that, only the inner stub axle races are held by the nut. (There's no denying that otherwise the wheel won't turn.)there for only the inner stub axle races are attached to the car! The barings spin obviously then there's the hub spinning with the wheel. Now, as I've said before, ALL the cornering forces of the car go through that centre ridge in the hub. Can you imagine the strain thats under esp with TB driving? ;D The leverage will be incredible. More than enough leverage to over come any pressing in tonnage used to force a complete baring in.
We know over tightening the nut has a slight influence on wheel baring play. That means the two stub axle inner races are being forced onto that central ridge of the hub taking out some of that play.
The outer races in the hub as pictured need to be replaced if we are to refurb the hub with completely new baring. There for two more races need to come out of the hub. Yes?
yes, one from front and one from back :y incidently a lot of modern kit(ie focus) have the bearing pressed in but have no circlips to retain them, ???
Yes in order to refurb the baring fully. But that's the thing, the hub race is part of the hub. It's not a baring shell separate to the hub, there for it can not be removed. In turn, there is no refurbing the hub with a new baring, as the hub itself IS the outer baring shell.Right last time.
I have the two inner races out that fit on the shaft of the stub axle. That's the inboard and out board inner stub axle ones as you can see. Then the two baring cages are out.
That still leaves two races still in the hub. Now, those two races are part of a central ridge, one side of which you can see in the pic taken from the wheel side/back of the hub. One race either side of the ridge. That ridge is part of the hub.
The hub is steel btw.
Look at it another way. The hub rotates as it must with the wheel fixed to it. If a baring complete is pressed into that, only the inner stub axle races are held by the nut. (There's no denying that otherwise the wheel won't turn.)there for only the inner stub axle races are attached to the car! The barings spin obviously then there's the hub spinning with the wheel. Now, as I've said before, ALL the cornering forces of the car go through that centre ridge in the hub. Can you imagine the strain thats under esp with TB driving? ;D The leverage will be incredible. More than enough leverage to over come any pressing in tonnage used to force a complete baring in.
We know over tightening the nut has a slight influence on wheel baring play. That means the two stub axle inner races are being forced onto that central ridge of the hub taking out some of that play.
The outer races in the hub as pictured need to be replaced if we are to refurb the hub with completely new baring. There for two more races need to come out of the hub. Yes?
yes, one from front and one from back :y incidently a lot of modern kit(ie focus) have the bearing pressed in but have no circlips to retain them, ???
Just did a search Chris on the bearing number in your picture of the complete hub DACF1018L and it comes up with thisAs I said earlier, somebody show me a bearing to press in, available on the market. Non exists.
http://www.gasgoo.com/showroom/delfuparts/auto-products/1010444.html
not sure if the bearings themselves will be easy to find ???
I'm not. Consider the forces on that centre race in the hub.Yes in order to refurb the baring fully. But that's the thing, the hub race is part of the hub. It's not a baring shell separate to the hub, there for it can not be removed. In turn, there is no refurbing the hub with a new baring, as the hub itself IS the outer baring shell.Right last time.
I have the two inner races out that fit on the shaft of the stub axle. That's the inboard and out board inner stub axle ones as you can see. Then the two baring cages are out.
That still leaves two races still in the hub. Now, those two races are part of a central ridge, one side of which you can see in the pic taken from the wheel side/back of the hub. One race either side of the ridge. That ridge is part of the hub.
The hub is steel btw.
Look at it another way. The hub rotates as it must with the wheel fixed to it. If a baring complete is pressed into that, only the inner stub axle races are held by the nut. (There's no denying that otherwise the wheel won't turn.)there for only the inner stub axle races are attached to the car! The barings spin obviously then there's the hub spinning with the wheel. Now, as I've said before, ALL the cornering forces of the car go through that centre ridge in the hub. Can you imagine the strain thats under esp with TB driving? ;D The leverage will be incredible. More than enough leverage to over come any pressing in tonnage used to force a complete baring in.
We know over tightening the nut has a slight influence on wheel baring play. That means the two stub axle inner races are being forced onto that central ridge of the hub taking out some of that play.
The outer races in the hub as pictured need to be replaced if we are to refurb the hub with completely new baring. There for two more races need to come out of the hub. Yes?
yes, one from front and one from back :y incidently a lot of modern kit(ie focus) have the bearing pressed in but have no circlips to retain them, ???
I'd be very surprised if it is ???
If it(the bearing) existed. Which it doesn't, because the hub is part of the bearing itself.
yes Andy. The one in the picture.If it(the bearing) existed. Which it doesn't, because the hub is part of the bearing itself.
Have you got an old hub? :-\
yes Andy. The one in the picture.If it(the bearing) existed. Which it doesn't, because the hub is part of the bearing itself.
Have you got an old hub? :-\
If all it takes for it to fall out is a bead of Weald then we are all driving round in death traps.yes Andy. The one in the picture.If it(the bearing) existed. Which it doesn't, because the hub is part of the bearing itself.
Have you got an old hub? :-\
Take it to somewhere that can run a good bead of weld along the outer (Kev's inner ;)) ie where the bearing race runs, and watch it fall out. :y :y :y :y
If all it takes for it to fall out is a bead of Weald then we are all driving round in death traps.yes Andy. The one in the picture.If it(the bearing) existed. Which it doesn't, because the hub is part of the bearing itself.
Have you got an old hub? :-\
Take it to somewhere that can run a good bead of weld along the outer (Kev's inner ;)) ie where the bearing race runs, and watch it fall out. :y :y :y :y
And if heat expands, why will it fall out? Do we not head to heat the hub?
If you can get FAG Hub assy for sixty five quid is it really worth mucking about trying to fine bearings that fit and to try and fit them?Andy
Hi Andy, we used to use conti tech barings for £35 odd, but these turned to shite as soon as I started using them for some reason. It transpires these are not oe quality, and it was not possible to tighten out all the play.
Hence a search for oe quality barings.
There is an oof legend, similar to the Carlton bush legend, that the baring can be pressed out of the hub. This a myth. :)
There no point discussing this, nobodys listening
That's it Andyc. Correct.
Search the baring number. A baring on its own does not come up. Only the complete unit. That is because they are one in the same.
As said, I'm not waisting any more time tools etc with this until a supplier can be found for a complete baring unit that presses in to the hub. Show me one of those purchased ready for pressing and I'll take it further
But don't waist your time. All you'll find is the complete unit.
That's it Andyc. Correct.
Search the baring number. A baring on its own does not come up. Only the complete unit. That is because they are one in the same.
As said, I'm not waisting any more time tools etc with this until a supplier can be found for a complete baring unit that presses in to the hub. Show me one of those purchased ready for pressing and I'll take it further
But don't waist your time. All you'll find is the complete unit.
It will be two separate bearings similar to andyc's picture,but as you say if the bearings cant be sourced then its a pointless exercise
just found this on fleabay,wondering now if its a monoblock bearing fitted like the one in the add.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Omega-Saloon-94-04-Front-Wheel-Bearing-Kit-/230785929035?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS
That's it Andyc. Correct.
Search the baring number. A baring on its own does not come up. Only the complete unit. That is because they are one in the same.
As said, I'm not waisting any more time tools etc with this until a supplier can be found for a complete baring unit that presses in to the hub. Show me one of those purchased ready for pressing and I'll take it further
But don't waist your time. All you'll find is the complete unit.
It will be two separate bearings similar to andyc's picture,but as you say if the bearings cant be sourced then its a pointless exercise
just found this on fleabay,wondering now if its a monoblock bearing fitted like the one in the add.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Omega-Saloon-94-04-Front-Wheel-Bearing-Kit-/230785929035?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS
Looks like a rear to me tbh. I know it says front, but there's no red seal like that involved on the front that I've seen.
Interesting! The Carlton Hub is the same as the Omega, gone on chris you know you want to :y
Andy
There no point discussing this, nobodys listening
Interesting! The Carlton Hub is the same as the Omega, gone on chris you know you want to :yThe only thing removable from the hub is the abs stator, that's pressed on.
Andy
Andy that's just obtuse. I have the thing here in front of me on the bench.There no point discussing this, nobodys listening
least of all ......... you! ;) ;) ;)
.....
Andy that's just obtuse. I have the thing here in front of me on the bench.
.....
Andy that's just obtuse. I have the thing here in front of me on the bench.
Moi ::) ::) ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFHu7DCsEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFHu7DCsEs)
ah, the Shawshank education system live and well in Bury I see. ;D.....
Andy that's just obtuse. I have the thing here in front of me on the bench.
Moi ::) ::) ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFHu7DCsEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFHu7DCsEs)
http://173.201.23.239/vauxhall.php?partnumber=90510542&manufacturerinfo=true
F.A.G = Film Actors Guild? ::)
Bugger off then ;D ;D ;DF.A.G = Film Actors Guild? ::)
My talent is wasted here......
Your wrong Chris, the race you consider to be part of the hub isnt, its an insert and can be removed.
AndyC.....can you please confirm what part number 90510542 is :y
I know I could get that race out in about 30 mins tops.
Your wrong Chris, the race you consider to be part of the hub isnt, its an insert and can be removed.
AndyC.....can you please confirm what part number 90510542 is :y
I know I could get that race out in about 30 mins tops.
Mark,do you reckon its two separate bearings or one one double bearing?
.....
(I run a bead of weld around the inside and they then pretty much fall out)
.....
(I run a bead of weld around the inside and they then pretty much fall out)
Sir ......... I thank you ;) ;) ;)
Chris ..................... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Bugger off then ;D ;D ;DF.A.G = Film Actors Guild? ::)
My talent is wasted here......
.....
(I run a bead of weld around the inside and they then pretty much fall out)
Sir ......... I thank you ;) ;) ;)
Chris ..................... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Its simples Andy :y ;D
.......
Take it to somewhere that can run a good bead of weld along the outer (Kev's inner ;)) ie where the bearing race runs, and watch it fall out. :y :y :y :y
Your wrong Chris, the race you consider to be part of the hub isnt, its an insert and can be removed.I asked you at Newent how the race came out and you said you didn't know. ???
AndyC.....can you please confirm what part number 90510542 is :y
I know I could get that race out in about 30 mins tops.
Surely then the bearing shell between the 2 cuts should simply fall off :-\ only gravity holding it in place :-\
Unless it's part of the casting...
Surely then the bearing shell between the 2 cuts should simply fall off :-\ only gravity holding it in place :-\Exactly as Al says. If that is join marked by TB, why hasn't the shell/race fallen away from the part removed?
Unless it's part of the casting...
Surely then the bearing shell between the 2 cuts should simply fall off :-\ only gravity holding it in place :-\Exactly as Al says. If that is join marked by TB, why hasn't the shell/race fallen away from the part removed?
Unless it's part of the casting...
Unless its part of the casting/hub?
Chris as Mdtm said the outer races that you chopping away at are all one piece so you need to cut more :D :ybreak off you ;D ;)
Chris as Mdtm said the outer races that you chopping away at are all one piece so you need to cut more :D :ybreak off you ;D ;)
And how wrong you ALL are! ;D
and if the bearing was pressed in then it should have something to stop it coming out again in use.
On the FWD Cavalier they have a big single bearing that you have to press in and that is held in by two ruddy great circlips.
Think i'm with you on this one chris but i stand to be corrected
Andy
and if the bearing was pressed in then it should have something to stop it coming out again in use.
On the FWD Cavalier they have a big single bearing that you have to press in and that is held in by two ruddy great circlips.
Think i'm with you on this one chris but i stand to be corrected
Andy
yet a focus front bearing is pressed into a shoulder but no other means to secure it ???
and if the bearing was pressed in then it should have something to stop it coming out again in use.
On the FWD Cavalier they have a big single bearing that you have to press in and that is held in by two ruddy great circlips.
Think i'm with you on this one chris but i stand to be corrected
Andy
yet a focus front bearing is pressed into a shoulder but no other means to secure it ???
No! It isn't. It will be part of the hub. ;D
Seriously though...I'm not about to tell you anything I havent seen for meself. :)
So I'll take your word for it, but with a pinch of salt if i may until experience proves the point. These rumours seem to start with assumptions. Like the Carlton bush myth, like the immovable subframe myth, like all front pads are the same myth, like ... A couple of others I cant remember but could two minutes ago :-[ ;D
But let's see what the oe ortopsy brings tomorrow. I might prove AndyP right yet. ;)
http://173.201.23.239/vauxhall.php?partnumber=90510542&manufacturerinfo=true
Lol, I will have to login to channel21, the description I had was 'Front; Saloon; Wheel Bearing Kit; Ø 74mm'
..... Expect to see the conti to be fractionally longer. I guess. :-\
oh the two races you said where removable, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but are part of the hub as I said all along. ;D..... Expect to see the conti to be fractionally longer. I guess. :-\
Or the two seats that you tried to remove :-X :-X ::) are that bit closer together. :y :y :y
...oh the two races you said where removable, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but are part of the hub as I said all along. ;D
Yes it could be a machining issue. Not sure how to measure that though. :-\Me neither :-\ You'd need a ball bearing perhaps in each side & measure ball to ball (ooer ::)) & then take off the dia of both ball bearings from your measurement. :-\
And to add, this particular baring was failed from new. Even with major over tightening we could never get all the play out.
....
The bearing play is set by the two centre races, ......
....
The bearing play is set by the two centre races, ......
and the ability of the machinist/CNC lathe to get theouterinner races the correct distance apart. ;)
.....
Fixed that for you. ;)
Ok, oe bearing disected.
Same! Can't see any difference in measurements either.
Ok, oe bearing disected.
Same! Can't see any difference in measurements either.
Kin ell,sorry for doubting you Chris :-[ :-[ but thats a really odd (and shite!)setup