Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Nickbat on 20 May 2012, 16:30:41

Title: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 20 May 2012, 16:30:41
Is there any sensor in the autobox which detects whether the car is going downhill? I am still occasionally getting the limp home mode (until I stop and restart the engine) but it ONLY happens when I feather the throttle going down an incline.  The box doesn't want to change up, but finally does with a kick - then the light comes on. ???
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 May 2012, 18:19:43
Nothing specifically, but the ECU can easily determine this from the information it has. (engine torque output and rate of change of road speed for example).

Have you read the codes from the gearbox ECU?
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Shackeng on 20 May 2012, 18:59:47
My autobox changes down after a while on a downslope of more than a certain amount. :y
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: pscocoa on 20 May 2012, 19:19:04
Is there any sensor in the autobox which detects whether the car is going downhill? I am still occasionally getting the limp home mode (until I stop and restart the engine) but it ONLY happens when I feather the throttle going down an incline.  The box doesn't want to change up, but finally does with a kick - then the light comes on. ???

Has the crank sensor been changed recently?
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 09:51:37
Nothing specifically, but the ECU can easily determine this from the information it has. (engine torque output and rate of change of road speed for example).

Have you read the codes from the gearbox ECU?

When it was last in the dealers, they said they were "unable to communicate" with the gearbox ecu.  :(
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 09:52:08
Is there any sensor in the autobox which detects whether the car is going downhill? I am still occasionally getting the limp home mode (until I stop and restart the engine) but it ONLY happens when I feather the throttle going down an incline.  The box doesn't want to change up, but finally does with a kick - then the light comes on. ???

Has the crank sensor been changed recently?

No, mate, it hasn't.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: sassanach on 21 May 2012, 09:54:49
quite likely to be the old favourite. the 2-3 solenoid. :y
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: feeutfo on 21 May 2012, 09:59:58
Is this the same issue AA had..? Limp mode aside?

He swapped his gearbox ecu for another, to test, and the problem went away.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 10:24:53
Is this the same issue AA had..? Limp mode aside?

He swapped his gearbox ecu for another, to test, and the problem went away.

Don't know, Chris, I missed reading about his gearbox issue. Is it a big job to change the ecu?  ???
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 10:25:38
quite likely to be the old favourite. the 2-3 solenoid. :y

Hmm. I've heard of that before. I assume it is a gearbox-out job to repair.  :(
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 May 2012, 11:15:31
quite likely to be the old favourite. the 2-3 solenoid. :y

Hmm. I've heard of that before. I assume it is a gearbox-out job to repair.  :(

No. Just the sump(s) off.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 11:33:56
quite likely to be the old favourite. the 2-3 solenoid. :y

Hmm. I've heard of that before. I assume it is a gearbox-out job to repair.  :(

No. Just the sump(s) off.

Thanks, Kevin.

Could you do me a favour and identify it on this website, then paste the code (given in the box) for the pic? I've had look but can't see it.

http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/ (http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/)

TIA  :y

Nick
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 May 2012, 11:37:57
You can see the valves here: http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html (http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html)

Not sure which is the 2-3 off the top of my head though.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 11:42:28
You can see the valves here: http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html (http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html)

Not sure which is the 2-3 off the top of my head though.

Yep, thanks Kevin. just found it as you posted.

(http://opeloem.com/imgs/parts_groups/V94/H/V94_H_10.gif) (http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html)

It's No 17!
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: feeutfo on 21 May 2012, 21:09:23
Is this the same issue AA had..? Limp mode aside?

He swapped his gearbox ecu for another, to test, and the problem went away.

Don't know, Chris, I missed reading about his gearbox issue. Is it a big job to change the ecu?  ???
nah, took about 10mins. Drivers kick panel. I'd see what he says though, he didn't have limp mode iirc.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: TheBoy on 21 May 2012, 21:54:22
If you are getting "Automatic Gearbox" on MID, get gearbox codes read, anything else is heresay.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 22:16:39
If you are getting "Automatic Gearbox" on MID, get gearbox codes read, anything else is heresay.

Yes, but the Vx dealership said they tried to read the gearbox ecu, but it wasn't allowing access...so I'm going around in circles here.  :(
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: TheBoy on 21 May 2012, 22:17:53
If you are getting "Automatic Gearbox" on MID, get gearbox codes read, anything else is heresay.

Yes, but the Vx dealership said they tried to read the gearbox ecu, but it wasn't allowing access...so I'm going around in circles here.  :(
Did it say "Unknwon ECU". Or just no communication whatsoever?
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 21 May 2012, 23:28:35
If you are getting "Automatic Gearbox" on MID, get gearbox codes read, anything else is heresay.

Yes, but the Vx dealership said they tried to read the gearbox ecu, but it wasn't allowing access...so I'm going around in circles here.  :(
Did it say "Unknwon ECU". Or just no communication whatsoever?

Afraid I don't know the answer to that. They just said that the gearbox ecu would not allow access.  :(
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: doz on 22 May 2012, 06:39:33
Did they try to talk to any other controller? Just wondering if you have generic issue or just the gearbox
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 May 2012, 10:01:42
Did they turn the radio off? I have found that can bu66er communication with the gearbox ECU.

Failing that, it points to some issue with the gearbox ECU. If a Tech 2 can't talk to it, there is a problem somewhere because comms is normally reliable, and it will be key to further diagnosis to read the gearbox codes.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: feeutfo on 22 May 2012, 10:25:15
You can see the valves here: http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html (http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html)

Not sure which is the 2-3 off the top of my head though.
As an aside.... Just wondering, but where do those filters 28 live? They look like proper filters worth changing, or at least checking as part of a service. :-\
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 May 2012, 12:01:38
You can see the valves here: http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html (http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html)

Not sure which is the 2-3 off the top of my head though.
As an aside.... Just wondering, but where do those filters 28 live? They look like proper filters worth changing, or at least checking as part of a service. :-\

I guess they are inside the valve body but they look coarse compared to the main filter, so guessing they only come into play to protect the valve body from other parts of the box disintegrating.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: pscocoa on 22 May 2012, 22:29:48
If you are getting "Automatic Gearbox" on MID, get gearbox codes read, anything else is heresay.

Yes, but the Vx dealership said they tried to read the gearbox ecu, but it wasn't allowing access...so I'm going around in circles here.  :(
Did it say "Unknwon ECU". Or just no communication whatsoever?

Afraid I don't know the answer to that. They just said that the gearbox ecu would not allow access.  :(

I would change the crank sensor before anything else - if that is breaking down the gearbox could  have duff info regarding engine speed and will be confused as to gear selection. A personal theory I accept but seemed to cure problem on mine a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Nickbat on 22 May 2012, 23:17:57
If you are getting "Automatic Gearbox" on MID, get gearbox codes read, anything else is heresay.

Yes, but the Vx dealership said they tried to read the gearbox ecu, but it wasn't allowing access...so I'm going around in circles here.  :(
Did it say "Unknwon ECU". Or just no communication whatsoever?

Afraid I don't know the answer to that. They just said that the gearbox ecu would not allow access.  :(

I would change the crank sensor before anything else - if that is breaking down the gearbox could  have duff info regarding engine speed and will be confused as to gear selection. A personal theory I accept but seemed to cure problem on mine a couple of years ago.

Hmm. Fair point. If the problem gets worse, I'll change it (I have spare in the boot). :y
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: albitz on 23 May 2012, 06:20:16
I may have a gearbox ECU you can try as a means of eliminating (or otherwise) the ECU as a cause. I will have a look shortly.
If I do have one it will be from a 2002 3.2 which  I suspect will be the same as yours,but may be worth someone confirming before sending/installing.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 23 May 2012, 09:22:18
Hmm. Fair point. If the problem gets worse, I'll change it (I have spare in the boot). :y

Worth finding a way to read the autobox codes first, IMHO.

I may have a gearbox ECU you can try as a means of eliminating (or otherwise) the ECU as a cause. I will have a look shortly.
If I do have one it will be from a 2002 3.2 which  I suspect will be the same as yours,but may be worth someone confirming before sending/installing.

Config will be different but electrically it should be the same, so would work as a means of eliminating the car from the code reading issue. :y

Not sure if the gearbox ECU can be reconfigured for a different engine with Tech 2. Quite possibly.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: feeutfo on 23 May 2012, 09:45:25
You can see the valves here: http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html (http://opeloem.com/opel/omega_b_1994_2003/transmission/four_speed_automatic_transmission/valve_body.html)

Not sure which is the 2-3 off the top of my head though.
As an aside.... Just wondering, but where do those filters 28 live? They look like proper filters worth changing, or at least checking as part of a service. :-\

I guess they are inside the valve body but they look coarse compared to the main filter, so guessing they only come into play to protect the valve body from other parts of the box disintegrating.
I've seen those filters on other valve body's, and they are exceptionally fine gauze within the sections shown in the drawing. Far too fine to draw, and looks like they never bothered to show the filter material because of that.
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 23 May 2012, 09:55:17
I've seen those filters on other valve body's, and they are exceptionally fine gauze within the sections shown in the drawing. Far too fine to draw, and looks like they never bothered to show the filter material because of that.

The main filter that picks up the fluid from the sump is paper, though, so I would have thought it would be more effective than the gauze? Hence my suggestion that they're only there to prevent contamination of the valve body if the pump, or something else upstream, gets chewed up. :-\

Looks like the valves have their own little finger filters on them too
Title: Re: Technical question
Post by: albitz on 24 May 2012, 11:14:59
Pic of ECU.Might be worth checking if its the same ? Can post it to you if you want to try a swap.

(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Albs59/DSCF1359.jpg)

Christ that pic is huge ! PB seems to have binned the resize option. :-\