Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: markrnorton on 08 June 2012, 13:52:00

Title: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 08 June 2012, 13:52:00
Well, it happened yesterday on the way back from Devon in the pouring rain ! Bloody car stopped !

AA got me home but problem is still there.

Car will fire with damp start sprayed down the inlet, but i have changed the fuel pump relay, checked the injection relay and fuse and this morning swapped out the fuel pump itself. still the car wont start. just the spanner symbol and engine check come up as its spinning over

is there a pressure sensor somewhere or am i missing something ?
BYW the AA man couldnt read any fault codes ? (but he wasnt sure his reader was working either)

Can anybody help ?

please

Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol
Post by: freecall666 on 08 June 2012, 13:55:04
there is a pressure regulator, round disc next to the intake, has an thin black pipe on it check that its working.
also has the fuel filter been changed?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 08 June 2012, 13:56:48
is that an easy check ? sorry how ?

not sure about the fuel filter, would that stop it dead ?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: freecall666 on 08 June 2012, 13:59:56
is that an easy check ? sorry how ?

not sure about the fuel filter, would that stop it dead ?
if the filter collatses it will stop fuel, test the presure regulator take pipe off at other end and suck on it should hear it moving in and out
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 08 June 2012, 14:02:02
thanks

i will go and check
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 08 June 2012, 14:17:53
well i pulled the pipe off the FPR and there is no movement on the diaphram when sucked or blown !

do i take it this would be sufficient to stop it and throw up those dash lights ?

ps where is the fuel filter ? underneath ?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: freecall666 on 08 June 2012, 14:23:34
should hear it move if no moving then the fuel is stopped, filter is just in front of the fuel tank underneth., would change the regulater for a new one or one that works,
p.s remember when you take the regulator off there will be fuel pressuer so keep a rag on top of it and dont smoke.
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: tunnie on 08 June 2012, 14:32:44
Fact AA could not read codes, no surprise there!

Fact spanner light is on, suggests there is a code there to be read  ;)

My thoughts are cam sensor, it usually causes hot starting issues.
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 08 June 2012, 14:47:12
Fact AA could not read codes, no surprise there!

Fact spanner light is on, suggests there is a code there to be read  ;)

My thoughts are cam sensor, it usually causes hot starting issues.

i might try the FPR first as its cheap and easy. thing is, the car stopped as i was driving along and now from cold this morning still nothing.
also, it did cough into life with the damp start down the inlet, suggesting it was sparking

i assume the cam sensor on the 2.2 is at the front under the belt covers ?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: tunnie on 08 June 2012, 14:55:53
Fact AA could not read codes, no surprise there!

Fact spanner light is on, suggests there is a code there to be read  ;)

My thoughts are cam sensor, it usually causes hot starting issues.

i might try the FPR first as its cheap and easy. thing is, the car stopped as i was driving along and now from cold this morning still nothing.
also, it did cough into life with the damp start down the inlet, suggesting it was sparking

i assume the cam sensor on the 2.2 is at the front under the belt covers ?

I would stop using that personally, get codes read first.

Yes pop off aux belt, and timing belt cover, its between the cams, locked in place with a small bolt.

But before you go changing anything, read codes  ;)
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 08 June 2012, 15:55:51
^^^
good advice
just ordered a fault code reader. will investigate further

thanks
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 14 June 2012, 19:23:15
Right, got my "My Naff Code Reader" 2 , read the fault code  :(

P1600 reprogramme or replace ECU

is this an easy fix ?
ie can the "My Naff Code Reader" 2 re-flash the ecu ? or do i have to buy a new/secondhand ecu and fit ?

please can somebody help !
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: RobG on 14 June 2012, 20:19:33
Right, got my "My Naff Code Reader" 2 , read the fault code  :(

P1600 reprogramme or replace ECU

is this an easy fix ?
ie can the "My Naff Code Reader" 2 re-flash the ecu ? or do i have to buy a new/secondhand ecu and fit ?

please can somebody help !
Shite
'dangle berries'
No chance
Get a decent OBDII reader or get it on a TechII
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 14 June 2012, 21:03:43
what difference will a different code reader make ? it will still read the same fault surely ?
what does a techII do different ?

do the ecu's fail ?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: RobG on 14 June 2012, 21:06:18
what difference will a different code reader make ? it will still read the same fault surely ?
what does a techII do different ?
Will give you the actual code, not the crap "My Naff Code Reader" has given.
TechII does everything, that`s why they`re in excess of £2,500.00.
Yet to hear of a knackered ECU
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: freecall666 on 14 June 2012, 21:34:17
Right, got my "My Naff Code Reader" 2 , read the fault code  :(

P1600 reprogramme or replace ECU

is this an easy fix ?
ie can the "My Naff Code Reader" 2 re-flash the ecu ? or do i have to buy a new/secondhand ecu and fit ?

please can somebody help !
try cleaning the ecu plug with the battery off. also read PM
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: mathewst on 14 June 2012, 21:34:38
Quote
Yet to hear of a knackered ECU
I did hear about knackered ECU,
Actually my old 2.2 mig had suffered an ECU breakdown one year after it was bought new.
It was in late 2000 I think.
I know this cause ECU was replaced under warranty so it seems they can go wrong.
But didn't see any ECU problems on the forum  :-\
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: rsymes2k on 14 June 2012, 22:03:48
isopropryl alcohol on the ecu plug, maplin do a spray can.

Does sound like fuel system though, it starts with damp start as it's letting fuel into the chambers to ignite.

Can you hear the fuel pump priming on 2nd position on key turn?

Start from the petrol tank and work your way forwards.
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 14 June 2012, 22:38:58
So you are saying the techII would possibly give a different result ?
to put you in the picture the clock/date is reading 1.1.1997and 00.00 every time the ignition goes on and doesn't change with ignition on.

Is it a possibility the ecu has fried ? the car did come to a grinding halt !
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: freecall666 on 14 June 2012, 23:08:04
So you are saying the techII would possibly give a different result ?
to put you in the picture the clock/date is reading 1.1.1997and 00.00 every time the ignition goes on and doesn't change with ignition on.

Is it a possibility the ecu has fried ? the car did come to a grinding halt !
thats nothing to do with engine. thats just a time etc display.
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 15 June 2012, 08:05:13
isopropryl alcohol on the ecu plug, maplin do a spray can.

Does sound like fuel system though, it starts with damp start as it's letting fuel into the chambers to ignite.

Can you hear the fuel pump priming on 2nd position on key turn?

Start from the petrol tank and work your way forwards.

i thought fuel to start with, fuel pump does not prime in position2, i changed the relay, fuse and even the fuel pump for spares i had, still nothing.

Not sure if its relevant, but i had drove constant for 6 hours in the pouring rain, any chance the wet weather could have got in and scuppered the systems ?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 15 June 2012, 08:21:44
Mark, clear the codes and then see what comes back ;)

Where in Essex are you? I might be able to pop down and have a look for you next week (if you can be around during the week) if that will help?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 15 June 2012, 08:49:28
Mark, clear the codes and then see what comes back ;)

Where in Essex are you? I might be able to pop down and have a look for you next week (if you can be around during the week) if that will help?

Thanks, i am close to Lakeside, Thurrock.
I will have a go at cleaning the ecu plug/terminals later, if this doesnt work, i'll clear codes and re-test. the reader does see the ecu info data on the first screen. not sure if that is significant
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 15 June 2012, 08:57:26
Mark, clear the codes and then see what comes back ;)

Where in Essex are you? I might be able to pop down and have a look for you next week (if you can be around during the week) if that will help?

Thanks, i am close to Lakeside, Thurrock.
I will have a go at cleaning the ecu plug/terminals later, if this doesnt work, i'll clear codes and re-test. the reader does see the ecu info data on the first screen. not sure if that is significant
Hmm, a bit further into Essex than I've got to go but we'll see what happens ;)

If the ECU data is coming up then I find it unlikely to be a faulty ECU ;)

Are any of the dash lights flashing when you crank it?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 15 June 2012, 08:58:38
when cranked the engine check light and car/spanner light are on
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: tunnie on 15 June 2012, 09:00:38
Get a decent code reader on it, ECU's don't just fail or suddenly need their plugs cleaning. More than likely its cam/crank sensor issue
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 15 June 2012, 09:01:55
when cranked the engine check light and car/spanner light are on
But neither are flashing?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 15 June 2012, 09:03:28
Get a decent code reader on it, ECU's don't just fail or suddenly need their plugs cleaning. More than likely its cam/crank sensor issue

My thoughts too... Possibly both as it won't start at all but it needs confirming ;) I thought it should still "prime" the fuel system though even if they were faulty so not 100% certain it's not a fuel issue.
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 15 June 2012, 09:03:43
when cranked the engine check light and car/spanner light are on
But neither are flashing?

correct, neither flashing, just on
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 15 June 2012, 09:06:37
i dont think it is a fuel supply issue, i have changed out the pump/relay/fuse. should it prime even with sensor failure ?
i am used to BMW's, not used to Vauxhalls. its weird.
why would the trip/clock zero as well ?
could water ingress cause an issue somewhere ?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: tunnie on 15 June 2012, 09:11:34
Still going around in circles here, you can link it to anything you want until cows come home. But until you get a proper code diagnosis your pishing in the wind!
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 15 June 2012, 09:50:31
Still going around in circles here, you can link it to anything you want until cows come home. But until you get a proper code diagnosis your pishing in the wind!

yes, you are right !!
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 15 June 2012, 10:57:17
i dont think it is a fuel supply issue, i have changed out the pump/relay/fuse. should it prime even with sensor failure ?
i am used to BMW's, not used to Vauxhalls. its weird.
why would the trip/clock zero as well ?
could water ingress cause an issue somewhere ?

Flat battery or dodgy connection. Have you checked all the fuses?

Other than that, as already said, you need to get the codes read properly :y
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 22 June 2012, 08:14:32
Is there anybody out there in OOF land that can help read the codes on my car please with a tech 2, I'm in Essex and would be grateful

thanks

Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 26 June 2012, 22:38:49
Right... Been to look at this today and the only code was to replace ECU ::)

Live data shows a cranking RPM and fuel pump activating. Confirmed fuel at the injection rail. Nothing looks untoward on live data when cranking.

I'm thinking that cam sensor is a likely culprit, although no code :-\ knowing that these are the weak link in the 4 pot engines. Mark agreed with me that it seems most likely so has ordered one as a starting point.

Hopefully an update to follow...

Oh, and thanks for the tea :y
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: tunnie on 26 June 2012, 23:09:34
 It's about the only sensor to fail, think it would even start with crank sensor disconnected. When genuine sensor started to go, would cause hot starting issues. (lots of cranking) - maybe when they fail completely it's cold starting  :-\
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 27 June 2012, 08:32:00
Thanks for taking a look Paul.

I'll fit the crank sensor saturday and report back, hopefully its just that.

Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 27 June 2012, 13:47:18
It's about the only sensor to fail, think it would even start with crank sensor disconnected. When genuine sensor started to go, would cause hot starting issues. (lots of cranking) - maybe when they fail completely it's cold starting  :-\

Was really expecting to see a code but it just wasn't there :-\

Thanks for taking a look Paul.

I'll fit the crank sensor saturday and report back, hopefully its just that.



As I said yesterday, I had to collect something from South Benfleet anyway so no hardship to pop over :y
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 30 June 2012, 10:44:21
Update on this thread !
Still not working after a camshaft sensor replacement

also on cranking now, its not showing a cranking rpm (whereas it did the other day when Paul had a look)

with fault copde cleared again its still reports back original diagnostic 'ecu re-programme or replace'

Is it likely the crankshaft sensor is the fault ?

any ideas ??
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Lazydocker on 30 June 2012, 12:38:33
Update on this thread !
Still not working after a camshaft sensor replacement

also on cranking now, its not showing a cranking rpm (whereas it did the other day when Paul had a look)

with fault copde cleared again its still reports back original diagnostic 'ecu re-programme or replace'

Is it likely the crankshaft sensor is the fault ?

any ideas ??

Important thing to note on this is that it doesn't appear immediately, only after a few hours minimum.

It's got me a bit stumped TBH, although I'm not very good with the 4 pots :-[
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: Auto Addict on 01 July 2012, 07:49:23
Update on this thread !
Still not working after a camshaft sensor replacement

also on cranking now, its not showing a cranking rpm (whereas it did the other day when Paul had a look)

with fault copde cleared again its still reports back original diagnostic 'ecu re-programme or replace'

Is it likely the crankshaft sensor is the fault ?

any ideas ??

Was the cam sensor bought from a Vauxhall dealer, or from somewhere else?
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 01 July 2012, 08:02:26
Genuine vauxhall Sensor from a dealer
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 08 July 2012, 18:04:54
Just to update this thread
spent a few hours changing the crank sensor, what a nasty job (what madman at Vauxhall put it there)

anyhow car still will not start, i have to go to the ecu now, take it out and apart see whats what
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: markrnorton on 17 July 2012, 19:29:33
Final update

Bought a complete ECU set from Twiglet on here, fitted it tonite , and started first time !

wooo

its rolling again

So , there we are , the "My Naff Code Reader" diagnostic was correct, replace ecu.
the old one must have been toasted
Title: Re: Fuel problem - 2.2 petrol - wont start !
Post by: PhilRich on 17 July 2012, 20:31:54
Good to hear you got a Result at last Mark  :y