Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: SMD on 18 July 2012, 12:39:08
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As some of you may remember, my mig was hit by a van last week while it was parked and I was not present. It was a company car and the time I got there the driver was not there (it was his last day apparently, don't know if that was due to the accident) but his colleague accepted full liability and exchanged details. Called him yesterday and he said his fleet manager filled and submitted a claim form. I just got off the phone to the 3rd party insurer who informed me that no claim had been reported and to email them with a description with what happened (which I have just done) and they will be in touch.
I was parked close to the entrance to their business premises (legally) and there was a dropped kerb about a metre and a half past my car for their vehicles to enter. My main concern is they will argue I was parked on the dropped kerb and I didn't take pictures to prove otherwise, although I pointed this out to the colleague of the driver and he accepted.
Thoughts ?
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If your car was parked legally, end of, no arguments. If someone hits it its their fault, take no $h1t from either them or their insurance company. My Misses had a car written off by a White van man pulling out of a side street. Their fleet manager tried all sorts to get out of informing the insurers. Even wanted to take it to a back street garage to have some dodgy repairs done so they didn't have to own up to them.
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Chances are, if the damage isn't too great, that they will want to settle it without going through insurance anyway... Fleet policies are expensive enough as it is ;)
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I email the fleet manager yesterday, no reply from him yet. Initially I thought the damage was limited to the bumper and indicator but on closer inspection I noticed that the wing is also scratched and started to rust :-[
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It doesn't matter whether your car was parked on or off the dropped kurb. If it is worse case scenario, and I am playing devil's advocate here, and they say that you were parked on the dropped kurb means that you may have been blocking the entrance or exit but that doesn't give them the right to hit your vehicle. It maybe mitigating circumstances as to why it happened but at the end of the day your car was parked and not moving and they should have taken steps to locate you to move the car and not to take the law into their own hands.
I am an ex police Sgt with best part of 17 years in the job and we always had calls about vehicles blocking drives etc. but you are limited in what you can do and the law isn't of much use as it mainly concerns blocking road and highways etc., and his business premises is neither of them.
Did you get the drivers name of the vehicle as this could also be relevant regarding the companies insurance.
But in my view, report the matter to your insurance company giving the details othat you have been given and let them get on with it (I'm sure you pay them enough money....let 'em earn it).
I personally don't think you have any problem and let the fleet manager know that if you don't hear from him within 24 hours then yur insurance company will get the ball rolling from your side.
Good luck
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..... and we always had calls about vehicles blocking drives etc. but you are limited in what you can do and the law isn't of much use as it mainly concerns blocking road and highways etc., ......
The week before last, my Dad came out of his house to find a car parked across his drive >:( but as it was late & he'd nowhere he needed to drive to let it be. The following morning it was still there! He had an appointment at 11am so tried to find out whose car it was .......... various phone calls later, the car was still there. So he called the police. A very short time later a traffic cop arrived - just happened to be passing - who there & then called a local recovery firm that came with a flat bed recovery wagon & the offending car was swiftly taken away. :y :y :y :y Result!
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Just wat to stress the point that in no way was I blocking anyone. As I said there was over a metre from the back of my car to the dropped kerb.
Is it common to deal with 3rd party insurers directly? I always thought insurance companies only deal with one another.
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Just wat to stress the point that in no way was I blocking anyone. As I said there was over a metre from the back of my car to the dropped kerb.
Is it common to deal with 3rd party insurers directly? I always thought insurance companies only deal with one another.
It is your choice as the aggrieved party .. you do NOT have to go through your insurers .... although you must inform them of what happened ... informing them does NOT mean making a claim.
I have done this successfully a few times when struck by 3rd parties who admit the fault ... they have all run into the back of me whilst I was stationary .. which makes it pretty difficulty not to be their fault !!
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Thanks Entwood, and for your advice in the other thread. I must have spoken to a jobsworth on Monday who said they will only deal with my insurance co.
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Thanks Entwood, and for your advice in the other thread. I must have spoken to a jobsworth on Monday who said they will only deal with my insurance co.
They always say that at first. Follow it up with a letter stating what happened, that you consider them / their customer solely responsible for your loss, what you expect from them and when.
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I wasn't saying that you were blocking anybody and I apologise if you have felt that I did. I was trying to explain that even if the other party was using the excuse of you being on the dropped kurb, (which was your concern), it does not take away the blame from the driver of the other vehicle who is clearly at fault.
I wish you well and hope that you get it resolved sooner rather than later without too much hassle.
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Thanks Entwood, and for your advice in the other thread. I must have spoken to a jobsworth on Monday who said they will only deal with my insurance co.
Just ask them to confirm, in writing, that they will only do that, as you require a copy to put with your submission to the County Court. Then watch them back pedal. :)
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.../// the time I got there the driver was not there (it was his last day apparently, don't know if that was due to the accident) but his colleague accepted full liability and exchanged details. Called him yesterday and he said his fleet manager filled and submitted a claim form.///...
These circumstances may well prove to be the complicating factor in view of the absence of the driver alleged to have caused the damage, a third party (not being the driver) accepting responsibility for it and the suggestion that the matter has been reported to the 'Fleet Manager'.
There are too many loose ends here as far as I would be concerned to be confident that this was going to be a straightforward matter to have resolved in the absence of much ballicking about.
I would re-visit the scene, take photographs of where your car was situated and of the relative position to the entrance of the premises concerned, make a fully detailed accident report to your own insurance company giving the name of the person accepting responsibility for the damage caused and ask them for their views.
Thinking about it, how any person can accept responsibility for the actions of others - especially where damage has been caused in circumstances where traffic offences may have been committed by the driver of the vehicle - may well depend on obtaining a full statement of facts from that third party for this to afford any traction whatever.
At best this third party is a witness to the incident unless he/she played an active part in its development - such as guiding the driver of the car around an obstruction or actively doing something to cause the driver to lose control of the vehicle resulting in the circumstances we see here.
In the circumstances - providing there is no possibility of self-incrimination - a report to the local Peelers may also be of help.
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I wasn't saying that you were blocking anybody and I apologise if you have felt that I did. I was trying to explain that even if the other party was using the excuse of you being on the dropped kurb, (which was your concern), it does not take away the blame from the driver of the other vehicle who is clearly at fault.
No need to apologise, I know what you meant :y
Den, I think what happened was after the accident the driver told his superior, the "3rd party" who accepted his driver was to blame. He has been pretty helpful so far but I can see your point though and I hope you are wrong.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=RXv&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=np&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=707&q=cody+road&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x47d8a7f8b8ef8787:0x2e1cefec21203ba9,Cody+Rd,+London+Borough+of+Newham,+London+E16&gl=uk&sa=X&ei=UgoHUI-9N8qX0QXh9s3EDQ&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAQ
This is the location of the incident. If you go to street view just past Speedy Hire you will see a blue Focus. This is where I was and had a similar gap to the dropped kerb.
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I wasn't saying that you were blocking anybody and I apologise if you have felt that I did. I was trying to explain that even if the other party was using the excuse of you being on the dropped kurb, (which was your concern), it does not take away the blame from the driver of the other vehicle who is clearly at fault.
No need to apologise, I know what you meant :y
Den, I think what happened was after the accident the driver told his superior, the "3rd party" who accepted his driver was to blame. He has been pretty helpful so far but I can see your point though and I hope you are wrong.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=RXv&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=np&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=707&q=cody+road&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x47d8a7f8b8ef8787:0x2e1cefec21203ba9,Cody+Rd,+London+Borough+of+Newham,+London+E16&gl=uk&sa=X&ei=UgoHUI-9N8qX0QXh9s3EDQ&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAQ
This is the location of the incident. If you go to street view just past Speedy Hire you will see a blue Focus. This is where I was and had a similar gap to the dropped kerb.
Looking at street view it would be reasonable to expect vehicles entering and exiting those premises to use the area afforded by the lowered kerb - whether or not that right has any basis in law or not depends on who installed the lowered kerb and for what reason, so you may be on safe enough ground there; even allowing for the physical dimensions of the entrance to reach beyond the boundary of the lowered kerb towards where your car was parked.
As you have been in contact with the Fleet Manager/superior and have received some measure of help form him only you can tell whether or not pushing the matter any further will be of benefit to you – a difficult assessment to make given the circumstances of the absent driver, the report of his colleague and the passage of time.
As this may well go further than you wish in the legal sense – with you being obliged to make all the running, I would be inclined to report the damage caused to your vehicle to the police – giving them all the details obviously and also speak to your own insurers about it.
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Can I just advise that if both parties have exchanged details and that nobody has been injured then the Rad traffic act has been complied with and with it been a minor collision with no serious driving offence having being evident, then don't hold your breath waiting for the police to be involved. They will just advise you to continue with your course of action to resolve between parties or through your insurers. The only other way they will get involved if details provided are false but seen as you have been in contact with the place and persons then this isn't likely.
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Can I just advise that if both parties have exchanged details and that nobody has been injured then the Rad traffic act has been complied with and with it been a minor collision with no serious driving offence having being evident, then don't hold your breath waiting for the police to be involved. They will just advise you to continue with your course of action to resolve between parties or through your insurers. The only other way they will get involved if details provided are false but seen as you have been in contact with the place and persons then this isn't likely.
Yes, whether or not police become involved to the point of investigating the matter G I would prefer to have the evidence to hand that the matter was indeed reported to them to accompany the report to SM's insurers - as some insurers will ask their clients for this.
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Can I just advise that if both parties have exchanged details and that nobody has been injured then the Rad traffic act has been complied with and with it been a minor collision with no serious driving offence having being evident, then don't hold your breath waiting for the police to be involved. They will just advise you to continue with your course of action to resolve between parties or through your insurers. The only other way they will get involved if details provided are false but seen as you have been in contact with the place and persons then this isn't likely.
Yes, whether or not police become involved to the point of investigating the matter G I would prefer to have the evidence to hand that the matter was indeed reported to them to accompany the report to SM's insurers - as some insurers will ask their clients for this.
Retired or not, you both still talk the talk ........ ::) ::) ::)
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Don't know if that's a compliment or not lol ;D ;D
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I wonder if the road traffic act has been complied with, actually..
You have an insurance company who claim to know nothing about it, a witness who may or may not have seen / been involved in the accident, a fleet manager who won't respond to emails and no idea who the driver of the vehicle was. :-\ They've had their 24 hours. I would make the Police aware of the circumstances, myself. Not necessarily expecting them to do much, but them making so much as a phone call to establish the facts would no doubt move things along a little quicker.
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Can I just advise that if both parties have exchanged details and that nobody has been injured then the Rad traffic act has been complied with and with it been a minor collision with no serious driving offence having being evident, then don't hold your breath waiting for the police to be involved. They will just advise you to continue with your course of action to resolve between parties or through your insurers. The only other way they will get involved if details provided are false but seen as you have been in contact with the place and persons then this isn't likely.
Yes, whether or not police become involved to the point of investigating the matter G I would prefer to have the evidence to hand that the matter was indeed reported to them to accompany the report to SM's insurers - as some insurers will ask their clients for this.
Retired or not, you both still talk the talk ........ ::) ::) ::)
Yes, after 39 years still talking keek. ;D ;D ;D :y
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This is why I asked in an earleir post if the drivers details were known, and quite rightly is relative depending on the answer. The rule on 24 hours is somewhat of a myth as the Road traffic act requires the matter (if necessary) to be reported to the police "as soon as practicable" but in old police guide lines it was thought 24 hours was enough and thus the myth was started. With regard to whether the fleet manager replies to emails is irrelevant, and of no intrest or covered by law as details have been exchanged and therefore the act complied with. Granted if someone is being awkward it's frustrating but the police can't do anything about it. We are all giving advice in good faith and hopefully SMD can resolve the issue easily with the facts that are known to him and that all possible points have been covered. Good luck mate :y :y
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I need to apologise on the 24 hr mark issue. There is a deadline of 24 hours but the rule is as soon as is reasonably practicable and this takes priority. i would point out though that as the accident was last week then both parties technically are guilty of not doing this, but we are getting to a stage now where a sledgehammer is being used to crack a walnut....or is it good to discuss these things ?? ???
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I need to apologise on the 24 hr mark issue. There is a deadline of 24 hours but the rule is as soon as is reasonably practicable and this takes priority. i would point out though that as the accident was last week then both parties technically are guilty of not doing this, but we are getting to a stage now where a sledgehammer is being used to crack a walnut....or is it good to discuss these things ?? ???
Softly, softly my son - it's always been the way, collect all the evidence as soon as possible - assess whether or not it's likely to do you any harm, and take it from there. ;D ;D
To be serious, the point is well made for any others facing the same type of problems, get an accurate record of what has happened (at the time), get names and contact details of witnesses to the incident - if in any doubt at all seek legal advice/report the matter to Five O a-sap and in all cases motoring, present the known facts to the insurers.
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I spoke to the 3rd party insurer today and they informed me one of their repair centres will contact me to arrange the collection and repair. They did offer me the choice of choosing which one of their repair shops to use but as I didn't know any of them I let them decide.
Just got off the phone to the bodyshop and they said I need to send them pictures of the damage, chassis no, mileage, tax and registration to their assessor before they get authorisation from the insurance company. Does this sound right?
I asked the bodyshop what happens if your assessor thinks its uneconomical to repair, she replied "write it off, I guess". I told them that the 3rd party insurer have no right to do that as I don't have a contract with them.
Thoughts and advice most welcome.
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Don't let the car out of your sight until you get an agreement to repair. Take it to the repairer and let them assess it, but take the car away.
If the repair is agreed and you're happy with the repairer then fair enough, but if not, you need to price up a repair somewhere you trust and present them with the estimate, informing them that you won't accept a write off under any circumstances.
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The trouble is they have 3 repair centres within a 40 mile radius and the centre we agreed on is a bit out of my way. I will supply them with the photos they requested and hopefully they will be able to provide an estimate based on them. Thanks for the tip, will not let them take the car away unless repair is agreed.
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You don't have to use their repairers mate - choose your own, more local to you, and get them to provide a quote.
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Don't let the car out of your sight until you get an agreement to repair. Take it to the repairer and let them assess it, but take the car away.
If the repair is agreed and you're happy with the repairer then fair enough, but if not, you need to price up a repair somewhere you trust and present them with the estimate, informing them that you won't accept a write off under any circumstances.
The one golden rule.
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You don't have to use their repairers mate - choose your own, more local to you, and get them to provide a quote.
I don't really trust any local garages tbh, and I doubt they will accept it being repaired by VX
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If they're prepared to offer you enough to buy another v tidy example, AND let you buy yours back for peanuts, then I would go down that route.
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You don't have to use their repairers mate - choose your own, more local to you, and get them to provide a quote.
I don't really trust any local garages tbh, and I doubt they will accept it being repaired by VX
You'd be surprised :y my local was down to £25 per hour when they did bodywork. Also did non insurance work so definitely worth asking the qiestion :y
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Further update.
I was informed by the bodyshop that the insurance co. has authorised the repair to my car and its being picked up on Monday. This was over the phone so do I insist to have it on paper or can I take their word for it?
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In writing that they will definitely repair the car regardless :-\ personally I wouldn't trust them and would drive it there myself and wait whilst they do an accurate estimate. If they then decide that it is neyond economic repair then you can still drive it home :y
If you leave it with them they won't tell you that they're going to write it off, they'll just do it >:(
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Another update...
Car was collected for repair on Monday and was returned today, and I have to admit initial impressions are that it has been a job well done by Nationwide accident repair centre. They rang me everyday with updates and the answered any queries I had in an honest manner. Car was filthy when they collected it any it came back shiny (even polished out a few marks that I couldn't remove previously).
Very pleased at how swiftly it was dealt with by 3rd party insurer too (AXA), so glad I avoided using Albany accident management company. BUT a bit of a downer when I noticed on closer inspection, the lip under the wheel arch has started to rust and a bit of paintwork has flaked off :-\
Thanks for all the good advice. :y
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Glad all sorted without much ado :y
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Another update...
Car was collected for repair on Monday and was returned today, and I have to admit initial impressions are that it has been a job well done by Nationwide accident repair centre. They rang me everyday with updates and the answered any queries I had in an honest manner. Car was filthy when they collected it any it came back shiny (even polished out a few marks that I couldn't remove previously).
Very pleased at how swiftly it was dealt with by 3rd party insurer too (AXA), so glad I avoided using Albany accident management company. BUT a bit of a downer when I noticed on closer inspection, the lip under the wheel arch has started to rust and a bit of paintwork has flaked off :-\
Thanks for all the good advice. :y
Take it back and make them re do it :y
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EMD, didnt mean to imply that was their fault. Maybe it happened when washing the car which could've happened at any moment given the rust was already there. Living with rust is part of omega ownership. :-\
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EMD, didnt mean to imply that was their fault. Maybe it happened when washing the car which could've happened at any moment given the rust was already there. Living with rust is part of omega ownership. :-\
Aye tell me about it ;D 15 yrs of damp weather dont make mine look pretty ;D