Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: P6UL K on 31 July 2012, 21:01:09
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Make yourself known to me! :y
Please keep this on topic, i don't want or need if's, but's, why's etc... Just have some simple questions for people that have these fitted...
Thank you ;)
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I have them on my Monaro if it helps.
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Nope, Miggy owners only can help i'm afraid
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What are you calling coil overs?
Shocks and springs that are non standard? Then yes.
Shocks and springs designed together as a matched unit. Then no.
I've heard both referred to as coilovers.
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What are you calling coil overs?
Shocks and springs that are non standard? Then yes.
Shocks and springs designed together as a matched unit. Then no.
I've heard both referred to as coilovers.
Chris i'm calling a coilover a coilover AFAIK you are confusing this:
A Macpherson Strut (on the left) v A typical 'Coilover Strut' (on the right)
(http://images.rvsmods.com/var/albums/Cars/SR20/Suspension/P11%20vs%20B15%20Front%20Suspension.JPG?m=1342499417)
At no other time have i ever heard ANYONE refer to coilovers as a normal (uprated or not) shock and spring set-up! ::) ::)
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I have, hence clarification of what your after.
So no mate. Can't help. :)
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How are you getting on Paul ?
Need any help ? :)
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Ignoring the ifs, buts and why :-\.
Your main concern should be with the spring rates given the shere weight of the Omega.
Secondly, if fitting these to the rear bear in mind that the shock mountings on the rear arm aren't designed for such loadings, and putting the coilover assembly where the spring is will probably be too short to be of any use :-\
Hope that answers some questions, Al :y
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Ignoring the ifs, buts and why :-\.
Your main concern should be with the spring rates given the shere weight of the Omega.
Secondly, if fitting these to the rear bear in mind that the shock mountings on the rear arm aren't designed for such loadings, and putting the coilover assembly where the spring is will probably be too short to be of any use :-\
Hope that answers some questions, Al :y
Hi Al 8)
Spring rates will be taken into account when made, its the lower arm mount that is of concern thus my wanting to speak to owners with of the shelf 'coilover' kits i.e. KW etc... already fitted so i can seek some advice and see some photos of the kit fitted.
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Ignoring the ifs, buts and why :-\.
Your main concern should be with the spring rates given the shere weight of the Omega.
Secondly, if fitting these to the rear bear in mind that the shock mountings on the rear arm aren't designed for such loadings, and putting the coilover assembly where the spring is will probably be too short to be of any use :-\
Hope that answers some questions, Al :y
Shocks & springs are separate on the rear in coil over set ups, just as they are in the normal ones.
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:y front end, the hardest part is probably drilling the turret for the top plate bolts, iirc they're double skinned :-\
Simply because of the design, rear end is probably a non starter :'( might be better off lower/stiffer springs with adjustable dampers and an uprated arb-monaro vxr one perhaps :-\
Sounds like you've got a project and a half going on 8)
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Ignoring the ifs, buts and why :-\.
Your main concern should be with the spring rates given the shere weight of the Omega.
Secondly, if fitting these to the rear bear in mind that the shock mountings on the rear arm aren't designed for such loadings, and putting the coilover assembly where the spring is will probably be too short to be of any use :-\
Hope that answers some questions, Al :y
Shocks & springs are separate on the rear in coil over set ups, just as they are in the normal ones.
Thanks Pete, just need to see the uprated set-up before i commit :y
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:y front end, the hardest part is probably drilling the turret for the top plate bolts, iirc they're double skinned :-\
Simply because of the design, rear end is probably a non starter :'( might be better off lower/stiffer springs with adjustable dampers and an uprated arb-monaro vxr one perhaps :-\
Sounds like you've got a project and a half going on 8)
Front end is the easy part :D Back end will be challenging but because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it cant be done and on a 'reasonable' budget :y
Does the Monaro VXR ARB fit then?!
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Don't know is the easy answer, but their rear end set up is similar to the Omega so probably wouldn't be too much of a challenge :-\
Proper coilovers might work on a saloon as the shock position is more vertical than the estate, but I reckon you'll still have alot of fabricating to do for the top mounts :-\
Otherwise, as Pete is hinting at, adjustable spring seats and dampers to give the same range of adjustment at the back as at the front. :y
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Well once i find out the info i need, the ball will start rolling and i can update my thread in the Gallery :y
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I think I know what you're getting at, but I'm still :-\
Are you after some pics of Omegas with coil overs fitted on the rear? If so, the Monaro has pretty much the same setup, I could take some pics for you tomorrow (if it's not raining) :)
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How close is 'pretty much the same?'
Does the spring sit/work in an arc as opposed to the vertical?
But pictures would be a start Pete, thanks :y
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How close is 'pretty much the same?'
Does the spring sit/work in an arc as opposed to the vertical?
But pictures would be a start Pete, thanks :y
I've got some council paving slabs I can take some pictures of for you if it helps? ;D
Be a whole site cheaper than coilovers too. :y
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How close is 'pretty much the same?'
Does the spring sit/work in an arc as opposed to the vertical?
But pictures would be a start Pete, thanks :y
I've got some council paving slabs I can take some pictures of for you if it helps? ;D
Be a whole site cheaper than coilovers too. :y
You keep your slabs mate, you'll need them to help take the weight of that rusty shell on your drive :D ;D
You don't know what i'm paying :P A whole lot less than you'd think ;)
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aggresive attitude springs to mind :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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How close is 'pretty much the same?'
Does the spring sit/work in an arc as opposed to the vertical?
But pictures would be a start Pete, thanks :y
I've got some council paving slabs I can take some pictures of for you if it helps? ;D
Be a whole site cheaper than coilovers too. :y
You keep your slabs mate, you'll need them to help take the weight of that rusty shell on your drive :D ;D
You don't know what i'm paying :P A whole lot less than you'd think ;)
I do know, cos you told me you senile old git! ;D
That's why I'm waiting for you to get it sorted before I tap you up for a set. :y
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aggresive attitude springs to mind :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Nah mate, we are only messing around. Paul and I are good friends. Sorry if that didn't come across in our posts. :y
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aggresive attitude springs to mind :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Nah mate, we are only messing around. Paul and I are good friends. Sorry if that didn't come across in our posts. :y
ok sorry :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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aggresive attitude springs to mind :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Nah mate, we are only messing around. Paul and I are good friends. Sorry if that didn't come across in our posts. :y
See, now you've made it off topic! ha ha ha!! :P James hasn't an aggressive bone in his body, I've met his wife! lol
Did i?! Lots been going on of late mate - must of slipped my mind :-\ :-\
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Has there been a question asked yet? ;D
What do you want to know, exactly? :)
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Paul, try these for size :y
http://gmoem.com/pontiac/2006/gto_2004-2006/ (http://gmoem.com/pontiac/2006/gto_2004-2006/) Basically LHD Monaro
http://www.opeloem.com/vauxhall/omega_1994_2003/rear_axle_and_suspension/ (http://www.opeloem.com/vauxhall/omega_1994_2003/rear_axle_and_suspension/)
Illustrated pages do print nicely along with the part lists :y
HTH, Al :y
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Cheers Al, but as the thread title suggests i want/need to see Miggies that have 'coilovers' fitted to the rear, not normal suspension items, sorry mate :-[
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Understood :y
These are a nice easy way to see how the rear suspension fits together, and also any differences between the saloon and estate :y you'll also see from the Monaro pages that the only significant difference is that the diff bolts directly to the subframe, but the rear diff mount is identical to the Omega...
This is good for two reasons, 1. A Monaro rollbar, (stock or uprated), should fit nicely, and 2. Any pics that Pete can send you will be of use because there is actually very little difference between the Omega Saloon and the Monaro rear set up :y
I suspect that what Pete has fitted to his Monaro is as follows:
Front, actual coilovers, like your green example, as a direct replacement for the stock struts.
Rear, lowered springs with adjustable seats and adjustable dampers, each being straight swaps for what is fitted to the car.
As I understand it, you are intending to fit complete coilover units, like the front ones, to the rear :-\
This should be doable, but you'll likely need to strip the boot out and cut out the inner wings and rebuild them to make the top mounts. This would be less work on a saloon, but you've much better access on the estate :y (suspect fuel filler will be in the way though). You might get away with a bracket up in the wheel wells but could be some horrendous clearance issues :-\
If you try to use the existing shock mounts in the floor, then you're into cutting up the chassis rails to create the top mounts. Again doable but will the coilovers work properly at such an angle? About 60 degrees rather than vertical.
I'd be sitting down with 2woody and Master DTM to sort out the finer points of what you're trying to achieve :y
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This is good for two reasons, 1. A Monaro rollbar, (stock or uprated), should fit nicely, and 2. Any pics that Pete can send you will be of use because there is actually very little difference between the Omega Saloon and the Monaro rear set up :y
I suspect that what Pete has fitted to his Monaro is as follows:
1. Front, actual coilovers, like your green example, as a direct replacement for the stock struts.
2. Rear, lowered springs with adjustable seats and adjustable dampers, each being straight swaps for what is fitted to the car.
1. Correct.
2. Correct
Also correct
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I recall 2woody saying that the Monaro rear subframe is a few inches wider than the Omega, while looking identical. I wonder if this would affect the suitability of the roll bar? :-\
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Perhaps, but they are mounted in a similar fashion, so fabricating a suitable link should be straightforward enough :-\ An aftermarket anti roll bar kit could be adaptable enough :-\
Just had another look at the ipc, a quick measure of the distance between the two drop links on the roll bar itself, both on the Omega and the Monaro will confirm compatability, but will need to use Monaro drop links :y
This does assume that the Monaro has a thicker arb ::) if the same thickness as the Omega, 22mm iirc, then aftermarket is the way forward :y
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The weather hasn't been in the favour of photos today. Rain, sun, rain, sun ::)
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No worries Pete, whenever your ready mate :y
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Monaro has similar rear suspension to Omega B, more similar in fact to Omega A ( Carlton )
The rear subframe on the Australian car is about 3" wider than Omega B - it's all in the middle, but unfortunately is sufficiently wide that the ARB will not fit on the German car ( either Omega A or B )
Also, the Oz car doesn't have the camber-correction bar, which makes it more suitable to work with alternative springs.
IMO, changing the rear spring setup on Omega B would be a retrograde step in all ways. The spring is quite a clever design, being a telescopic "monobloc" spring. The position of the spring vs. the damper and the difference in inner/outer semi-trailing arm bushes makes for a really sophisticated ride/handling balance.
Monaro owners would do really well to addd the camber-correction system.
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Monaro front spring/damper is very similar to Omega B. The only difference being the bolt pattern to the hub-carrier. The rest of the front suspension is similar to Senator A/Monza.
"coil-overs" would be a good idea for a race car, allowing more different front spring rates to be tried and the ride height brought back to standard easily. Less suitable for road use as they do funny thiongs to the steering, usually because the spring is on the same axis as the damper.
Generally speaking, the Omega B would be pepped-up by maybe 20% stiffer front springs and dampers, together with softer rear springs
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Monaro front spring/damper is very similar to Omega B. The only difference being the bolt pattern to the hub-carrier. The rest of the front suspension is similar to Senator A/Monza.
"coil-overs" would be a good idea for a race car, allowing more different front spring rates to be tried and the ride height brought back to standard easily. Less suitable for road use as they do funny thiongs to the steering, usually because the spring is on the same axis as the damper.
Generally speaking, the Omega B would be pepped-up by maybe 20% stiffer front springs and dampers, together with softer rear springs
I had wondered about that.
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yes, the spring is carrefully aimed at the contact patch, thus maintaining the force in the requisite direction.
Changing to a concentric spring makes the spring force direction wander about on the road as you turn the wheel.
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yes, the spring is carrefully aimed at the contact patch, thus maintaining the force in the requisite direction.
Changing to a concentric spring makes the spring force direction wander about on the road as you turn the wheel.
in an arc, as opposed to centred?
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yup !