Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: peter.pan on 02 August 2012, 21:04:11
-
I'm a regular poster on here, but set up a new account to ask this question anonymously, cos I
don't know where else to turn :(
Obviously the admins will have access to my real details, but I would be very grateful if they could
respect my privacy
I need some objective opinions but please be aware that I'm definitely NOT objective in my
description of the situation
I am in a long term "friends with benefits" relationship with a women I have known for over 20 years.
Let's call her "tiger lily"
We tried a full time relationship, and it didn't work for us, but we really are VERY good friends, and I am
very much in love with her.
She is a (young) widow with a very good "death in (uniformed) service" pension and two school-age
kids (3 y/o girl and 12 y/o boy)
She has recently started a steady relationship with an older man who *seems* to be a decent bloke,
he has moved in with her "temporarily" whilst refurbishing a new house he has bought (he's just moved to area
after the breakdown of his marriage - he has two adult sons).
He has become a father figure to the children, especially the son who is badly missing his dad.
The problem I have boils down to one thing - I visited the other day and b/f was *in* the bath with
the baby girl.
Might be innocent, but...
TigerLily trusts me completely, and if I voice my concerns it will DEFINITELY damage her relationship with
her b/f, but might also spoil our friendship.
If I don't voice my concerns, and it turns out to be something sinister, then that will be MUCH worse.
She's tried to discuss her relationship with b/f with me - I always tell her my opinion , with the caveat "I'm biased".
because I am.
ask for any further info, but
PLEASE HELP.
-
As a complete outsider....
IMO something needs to be said.
As you say it may be innocent but then what if it isnt? Yes your relationship may change but you have to ask yourself what is more important... your relationship with your lady friend or the wellbeing of her kids?
Of course I may be biased myself as I have dealt with the aftermath of child abuse.
-
Of course I may be biased myself as I have dealt with the aftermath of child abuse.
So have I, and so has tiger lily.
which makes it worse, if I'm wrong.
-
But then if she has dealt with this then she would see this as grossly inappropriate, and would want to be told.
I would if it were my kids.
-
As you know, I love a good rant on here when im in the mood and what your describing is one of the things that turns my gut the most.
I also have had dealings with these scum as I have said in the past.
This time I would keep my mouth shut BUT keep a very close watching brief on the situation.
What you saw, 30 or 40 years ago wouldn't have set so many alarm bells ringing but sadly the world we live in has changed.
If you get anymore gut feelings about this bloke THAT YOU CAN BACKUP with things that have been seen or things you have heard, don't hesitate to pick the phone up to the police and tell them everything you know.
Sadly if it screws up your relationship with this lass then I take no pleasure in saying this but its tuff :(
The kids always come first and must be protected :)
-
A tough one indeed, and yes, needs to be handled carefully.
Where was the mother at this 'bathtime' and when you say 'recently started a steady relationship', roughly how long is 'recently' ?
-
A grown man having a bath with a young child which isnt his own is imo completely innapropriate.Its just wrong.
-
A grown man having a bath with a young child which isnt his own is imo completely innapropriate.Its just wrong.
2 people, both got kids from previous relationships get together in a serious relationship, you have to take on each others kids if it is to work ;)
I'd still watch the f**ker like a hawk tho ;)
-
A tough one indeed, and yes, needs to be handled carefully.
Where was the mother at this 'bathtime' and when you say 'recently started a steady relationship', roughly how long is 'recently' ?
shopping with me. :(
she is disabled, and her carer was also in the house (but in the kitchen).
tiger lily has known b/f''s mother for 5 years.
been dating b/f since january (ish) and he moved in easter time (ish) - certainly not (IMO) enough time
to have his feet that far under the table ( but I'm biased)
-
Inappropriate mate >:(
-
A grown man having a bath with a young child which isnt his own is imo completely innapropriate.Its just wrong.
2 people, both got kids from previous relationships get together in a serious relationship, you have to take on each others kids if it is to work ;)
I'd still watch the f**ker like a hawk tho ;)
Take them on by all means,but have a bath with them alone ? Never. I would be having a sensitive chat with the mother and try to make her see that something may not be right here. ;)
-
A grown man having a bath with a young child which isnt his own is imo completely innapropriate.Its just wrong.
2 people, both got kids from previous relationships get together in a serious relationship, you have to take on each others kids if it is to work ;)
I'd still watch the f**ker like a hawk tho ;)
I wouldn't be so worried if he had female children - then I could see how they act around him.
The abusive stepfather is such a stereotype, but it happens.
Unfortunately, I can't be there 24/7 - tiger lily and I have a "complicated" relationship, and b/f isn't particularly keen on it.
(which is another reason for my bias)
-
I got with my wife in 2000 and took on her four kids (3 of which are girls) at the same time.
The youngest girl was 3 then, and there is NO WAY I would have behaved like that even though my missus trusts me 100% with the kids - it would just be wrong!
-
I dont think your being biased at all tbh.Just a sensible adult who has that gut feeling that it isnt right.Even if it is innocent,surely he must realise the possible accusations he is leaving himself open to ?
If the child tells friends or schoolteachers etc. about it,social services will probably be hammering on the door sharpish. Someone who doesnt consider that possibilty in this day & age would have to be extremely naive surely ?
-
How is you're relationship with the Carer ? Can you discuss the matter without it getting back to anyone else ?
-
What he like with his own kids ?
-
How is you're relationship with the Carer ? Can you discuss the matter without it getting back to anyone else ?
Very good idea :y
-
firstly Peter Pan sorry to hear you were not able to make things work with this lady
that said in my honest opinion and more so in this day and age the boyfriend should not be sharing a bath with the child under any curcumstances fair enough if he was the natuaral father but he is not and should be acting more responsible. it is somethiong i would not even dream of doing if i was in the same position
your position is a difficult one but the inocence of a child must be of the upmost importance, tiger lilly may be a little blinded and not see what someone else will see but you know tiger lilly
2 opinions here me and wifey
mine was you have to talk to tiger lilly about this and is she comfortable with it after all you are not by the sounds of it and i dont blame you one bit or have a little chat with the bloke and ask him what the hell he is doing
wifey..... ditto and if it was her daughter the bloke would be out the door with a frying pan round his head
either way mate you must say something to the boy friend or tiger lilly adults should know better and also understand the concerns, children especially that young are far to innocent to know
best of luck with it
-
i would say something definatly if you valued your friendship that much im sure she would understand,
even when my own girl was 3 wouldnt even think about getting in the bath with her.
has the girls behavour changed in any way that youve noticed? sorry to ask
-
I think you already know what course of action you’ll take PP.
I would assume that the ‘with benefits’ part of your friendship with TL will has ceased, given her new arrangements – should it not have done so you most certainly are unnecessarily complicating the matter and will never, in my view, be able to deal with your relationship in any constructive way.
The question of the man being in the bath with a three year old child (not his daughter) and in the absence of the mother is one that simply cannot be ignored - irrespective of how it may damage your relationship with TL.
Children – especially young children – need responsible adults to advocate for them, so that is in my opinion what you must do.
-
How is you're relationship with the Carer ? Can you discuss the matter without it getting back to anyone else ?
Very good idea :y
She has a range of carers, but there is on e who I get on with particularly well.
An extra opinion would be good.
I'm not sure how tiger lily would react to my discussing the situation with some else, other than anonymously.
-
I think you already know what course of action you’ll take PP.
I would assume that the ‘with benefits’ part of your friendship with TL will has ceased, given her new arrangements – should it not have done so you most certainly are unnecessarily complicating the matter and will never, in my view, be able to deal with your relationship in any constructive way.
I do know what I need to do - I want to be sure I'm doing for the right reasons tho.
The "benefits" bit has ceased - I just wanted a second opinion that that wasn't clouding my judgement.
-
How is you're relationship with the Carer ? Can you discuss the matter without it getting back to anyone else ?
Very good idea :y
She has a range of carers, but there is on e who I get on with particularly well.
An extra opinion would be good.
I'm not sure how tiger lily would react to my discussing the situation with some else, other than anonymously.
Not saying the bloke in the bath is right.
Its one thing I can't see me ever doing.
As for the carer, have a word on the QT and see if she has noticed anything.
-
I don't think any man should be in a bath with a 3 yr old child, especially when the child isn't his. There's absolutely no need to get into the bath to wash the child. I have 1 daughter myself who's nearly 6 and have bathed her many many times but never felt the need to get in with her and can only imagine it making it harder to bath the child!! If I even thought there was another man ''helping'' to bath my child I'd be concerned, you just cant be too careful these days.
This is just my opinion but it seems to be the general consensus, I know this is an awful position for you but I really hope it was innocent for the childs sake. At worst you will lose this ''friendship'' you have but maybe the lady involved will appreciate your concern. Is there any way you could ask about bath rituals for the kids etc without revealing too much??? If it was me I would be asking questions and probably telling what I'd seen, maybe try telling it offhandish or something to judge a reaction, maybe tell the story about another friend to judge her reaction???
-
Hmm. :-\ Hot water is not in short supply these days.
I have no children of my own, and don't often come into close contact with them, TBH, so am not in a position to put myself in anybody's shoes. Having said that, how well can you know someone after 6 months?
Can this guy really have developed such a loving fatherly relationship with this girl in 6 months that it's something he would do innocently, without thinking of how it might be construed? If not, (and I suspect not) something's up.
Is it worth talking to the carer, if she was around at the time? Don't know, but I would say something to someone. Any consequences are worth bearing if you have a chance to stop something awful happening, surely?
-
I wouldn't be talking to TL or the carer, I'd be letting him know that his behaviour is well out of order but, as you're biased, you'll be asking other people what they think. Whatever happens here, your relationship with TL can never be the same, just accept that.
-
As others have said its just plain wrong that a grown man is in the bath with this kid. And I'm amazed that T L allows it at all let alone after 6 months. You have known her for 20 years, so doubtless you know each other inside out, regardless of your bias now because of the new b/f, she surely must realise you are speaking out ONLY to protect the child.
In my opinion you HAVE to act, you couldn't live with yourself if your concerns become reality and you did nothing.
-
As others have said its just plain wrong that a grown man is in the bath with this kid. And I'm amazed that T L allows it at all let alone after 6 months. You have known her for 20 years, so doubtless you know each other inside out, regardless of your bias now because of the new b/f, she surely must realise you are speaking out ONLY to protect the child.
In my opinion you HAVE to act, you couldn't live with yourself if your concerns become reality and you did nothing.
totally agree cam but unless I've missed something do we know that t l agrees with this or even is aware of it?
-
I don't think any man should be in a bath with a 3 yr old child, especially when the child isn't his. There's absolutely no need to get into the bath to wash the child. I have 1 daughter myself who's nearly 6 and have bathed her many many times but never felt the need to get in with her and can only imagine it making it harder to bath the child!! If I even thought there was another man ''helping'' to bath my child I'd be concerned, you just cant be too careful these days.
This is just my opinion but it seems to be the general consensus, I know this is an awful position for you but I really hope it was innocent for the childs sake. At worst you will lose this ''friendship'' you have but maybe the lady involved will appreciate your concern. Is there any way you could ask about bath rituals for the kids etc without revealing too much??? If it was me I would be asking questions and probably telling what I'd seen, maybe try telling it offhandish or something to judge a reaction, maybe tell the story about another friend to judge her reaction???
I happily had baths with my daughter (and son!) until she/he reached 3 or 4 years of age. It's a wonderful way to bond with a child. However, I am talking about my own children.
In your situation, I would be most uncomfortable. Nevertheless, I think this needs to be approached with tact. Is the new b/f expected to get the children undressed for bed? If yes, then he is already being given the green light for the level of intimate contact which is associated with such action.
There are clearly only two possible explanations:
1. That the new b/f is acting in sexually-innocent manner, but trying to bond with the children, in which case any external investigation may well end up in legal action, ruining both his life and your friendship with the mum.
2. He is acting in a sexually predatory manner, in which case he should be barred from any contact with the children.
In other words, he's either a pervert or he is not.
No one on here can possibly answer that, given the available facts. My own view is that it is incumbent on you to establish, with some urgency, the facts of the relationship between the b/f and the children. Jumping to conclusions invariably makes matters worse.
-
Its difficult for PP to establish any guilt. Speaking to the bloke will only cause angst and most certainly be counter productive. The only thing I suppose you can do is to innocently mention what you have witnessed to TL and wait to see how she takes that bit of info on board. If she seems ok with it then, perhaps he has been given the green light to be that involved in the children's care.
If she reacts to it, then at least you have let her know the facts; the rest is up to her to sort out and perhaps for you to stay out of? After all they are her kids, not yours.
That said, what you have mentioned sounds quite repulsive to me.
-
PP you don't say how you know bf was IN the bath with the little girl.... Was the door open? Did you see them? What did the carer say about it at the time? Does TL know about it?
As most have said you know what you have to do. The little girls welfare is paramount and yes your relationship with TL will be affected, but doing nothing is not an option!
-
TL told *me*
She's not happy, but not horrified (which I am).
I think she wants my opinion before making any big decisions,
which I'm not happy about giving without a LOT of thought.
and she WILL listen to my opinion, hence the reason I don't want to
give it lightly.
My first reaction was get rid, preferably in a deep hole.
She trusts him, but we've both known people who, shall we say? didn't deserve the trust
they were given.
-
TL told *me*
She's not happy, but not horrified (which I am).
That speaks volumes, IMHO. If anyone would know if this guy's relationship with the child is such that this is likely to be innocent, it is her mother. :-\
-
TL told *me*
She's not happy, but not horrified (which I am).
I think she wants my opinion before making any big decisions,
which I'm not happy about giving without a LOT of thought.
and she WILL listen to my opinion, hence the reason I don't want to
give it lightly.
My first reaction was get rid, preferably in a deep hole.
She trusts him, but we've both known people who, shall we say? didn't deserve the trust
they were given.
Ah, now I understand where your coming from.
Sorry, I was under the impresion that TL was not conserned :-[
And what has she said to him about it ?
At the end of the day, your role (as a friend) is to support TL in whatever she decides to do about it.
-
TL told *me*
She's not happy, but not horrified (which I am).
That's wasn't obvious (to me at least) from your original post PP. :(
In that case, having known about this incident - and being the child's mother - TL in the best position to decide whether or not it was appropriate based on her ongoing relationship with this man and it sounds as if she is (at the least) tolerant of what happened.
Your dilemma seems to be that should you express your views TL’s relationship with this man, and perhaps also with you, may be irreparably damaged. TL is asking for your view here so, if you think the actions of this man were ‘horrifying’ then surely you must tell her that?
Where young people or children of tender years are concerned there can be no half measures when it comes to their welfare – they must exist in a non-threatening environment and any person tolerating their living in anything else but –for the sake of maintaining a relationship, or avoiding hard decisions about it, will only make matters worse for all concerned.
To my mind there can be no question of reticence here, your opinion was asked for – make it known and let the child’s mother decide what to do.