Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Marie on 04 August 2012, 11:11:45

Title: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 04 August 2012, 11:11:45
Good Morning Gents,

well after all the work  i have put into my baby she has now decided that the N/S wishbone is on it way out if not givin up. you can feel it knocking when braking. this was confirmed after i went to have a new tyre put on her.

So i called vauxhall to see how much to change the bushes both sides and to change the wishbones OMG couldnt beleive it £750. :o :o :o politely told the lady thankyou but no thank you.

right so here are my questions:

1. Do i change the whole wishbones ? who is currently the best supplier for wishbones dont beleive in paying for cheep ones to fail

is it easier then .....

2. Do i replace the bushes ? Standard or poly and how do i get them back in.

3. with removal do the bolts need replacing too ? good idea to have them at the ready just in case

or

4. Pay someone else to do it. i am not normally defeeted but this is one thing that scares me. if you get it wrong can cause snags later on. so i am will to Pay a good mechanic to do it for me anyone know someone in somerset who would be will to remove some cash from my pocket? if its a fello OOF'er id be willing to help
 :y
Thanks you guys for reading this and advising me further. :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: sassanach on 04 August 2012, 11:32:14
i gather the current thinking is to go poly bush,don't bother replacing the bolts, total waste of spondulicks. :y
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: sassanach on 04 August 2012, 11:34:43
also if you are capable of "tinkering" with engines then changing wishbone bush's will barely wake you up.piece of p*ss.
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 04 August 2012, 11:45:21
also if you are capable of "tinkering" with engines then changing wishbone bush's will barely wake you up.piece of p*ss.

Is it really that easy? I guess i have the same feeling from when I had to do the cambelt myself for the first time fear of getting it wrong.
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Andy H on 04 August 2012, 11:52:19
also if you are capable of "tinkering" with engines then changing wishbone bush's will barely wake you up.piece of p*ss.
If you have the means to support the weight of the car safely then it should take a home mechanic a couple of hours to swap the front wishbones. Wouldn't describe it as 'a piece of pish' though  :-\

I always struggle to find the strength to get the balljoint out of the bottom of the strut and if you drop the rear bolt inside the box section it can take a while to fish it out again ::)
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: feeutfo on 04 August 2012, 16:06:43
Best thing to do is research it, see how you feel about the job once you have all the info.

If your wb's are knocking they have been failed for some concider able time. So re bushing is out IMO as the ball joints will fail soon if not already.

So as i doubt your into refurbing, IMO bin the old ones.

So what to fit.
See lemforder on all Germans web site. IMO don't bother with the cheap shite copies.

Fitting.
See the guide. With extra highlight on insuring the bolts are tightened to the correct torque setting WITH WHEELS LOADED. :)
This may mean buying equipment such as ramps and a steady high lift jack of at least 2.5 tons to give clearance under the car, allowing you to place ramps under the front wheels taking the full weight of the car.

Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 August 2012, 16:32:05
If it's the front bushes that have failed I'd cut them out and fit poly bushes. No aggro of getting the geometry checked again, and ball joint is not much of an issue if it fails later.
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 August 2012, 18:23:45
also if you are capable of "tinkering" with engines then changing wishbone bush's will barely wake you up.piece of p*ss.
If you have the means to support the weight of the car safely then it should take a home mechanic a couple of hours to swap the front wishbones. Wouldn't describe it as 'a piece of pish' though  :-\

It's only 3 bolts, but there is definitely a knack to them :y

Quote
If you drop the rear bolt inside the box section it can take a while to fish it out again ::)
This reason alone is worth having a set of spare bolts :-X
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 04 August 2012, 21:30:34
If it's the front bushes that have failed I'd cut them out and fit poly bushes. No aggro of getting the geometry checked again, and ball joint is not much of an issue if it fails later.

i am asuming i can cut them out in situe then Kevin? do the polly bushes go in okay?

i also have the added advantage of a ramp at my disposal which i will be using for this job.

I have read through the job several times now and with the use of the ramp shouldnt be too difficult i guess.

sorry stupid question when the guide says angle tighten could someone explain this for me please imhaving a blond moment :/


Just trying to decide whether to to a complete replacement or just do the bush. is it worth replacing the drop arms too?
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: feeutfo on 04 August 2012, 22:07:20
As said if the bushes are so far gone that they are knocking, the rearward bush will be buggered as well. Replace. IMO.

120nm via torque wrench, that's easy.

Then angle tighten 30 degrees, so guess turning the wrench 30degrees of further travel, knowing what 90 degrees/a right angle looks like turn the wrench a bit less than half of 90degrees.
Then for 15 degrees turn it half as much further again. Seemples. :)
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 04 August 2012, 22:17:56
As said if the bushes are so far gone that they are knocking, the rearward bush will be buggered as well. Replace. IMO.

120nm via torque wrench, that's easy.

Then angle tighten 30 degrees, so guess turning the wrench 30degrees of further travel, knowing what 90 degrees/a right angle looks like turn the wrench a bit less than half of 90degrees.
Then for 15 degrees turn it half as much further again. Seemples. :)

Thank you i thought thats what the guide was getting at just wanted to double check.

I will be changing the whole arm. as much as id like to get away with just puting polly bushes on her i doubt like you have said ill get away with it. so 0full replacement it is then and i will be using those recommended on here not too bad price tbh.
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 August 2012, 22:35:43
Get the geometry set ASAP if you have to replace the arms as it will put everything way out. :y
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 05 August 2012, 05:43:14
Get the geometry set ASAP if you have to replace the arms as it will put everything way out. :y

Okay Kevin just need to find somewhere in Somerset that does it lol
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 05 August 2012, 06:35:48
Here's another question sorry guys

So I change the wishbones and during this job is there anything else I need to look at changing : have off any way before I have the geometry done?

Both track rod end have been changed in the last two years already.

Looks like I'll have to travel to get the geometry done and the last thing i want is to get there and find I should have changed something else too. Although I'm not flush with pennies I want to get this bob on before I am hard up
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 August 2012, 07:44:05
Try  http://www.brauntonengineering.co.uk/  (http://www.brauntonengineering.co.uk/) bit pricey £90+vat, but saving on fuel traipsing up to WIM :y If too far away try searching for similar specialists near you :y

As for what else to change, if you're happy with the track rods, shocks and top mounts, then you're good to go :y

Polys are £35 and genuine rear bushes are £20 each, so probably better off refurbing existing arms against fitting brand new :-\ when the ball joints fail they can be replaced without upsetting the geometry :y
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 August 2012, 09:06:50
Only thing I can think of is to make sure shocks, springs and strut tops are OK. Just give everything a good waggle and check for play.

I use Micheldever tyres it I need someone local, a bit of a trek up the A303 but they'll do a decent job.

Anyone with a decent 4 wheel rig should be able to set it up, just keep an eye on them and tell them to give it about 1o10' camber and a smidge of toe-in. It's the lazy sods who just turn it until it goes green you need to watch. ::)
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: feeutfo on 05 August 2012, 09:53:58
From experience, Micheldever are good for geometry, plus they only charge £20 per adjustment iirc...and if you need tyres they are very hard to beet there as well.

I will be paying them a visit soon for my tyres and a very slight pull to the left while I'm there. :)

Must be somewhere nearer to you, if any west country members have experienced a company worthwhile...? :-\
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Old Fella on 05 August 2012, 10:38:45
F.C.M. Wheel Alignment in Bristol!
Ring Lee Colgan on Mob 07940658321
He works in harmony with WIM, and understands the Omega completely!

HTH
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 05 August 2012, 12:33:49
F.C.M. Wheel Alignment in Bristol!
Ring Lee Colgan on Mob 07940658321
He works in harmony with WIM, and understands the Omega completely!

HTH

Brills I had found them online and wasn't too sure. I'll be going to Bristol :) cheers guys

My hubby is not convinced we need the geometry doing after changing the wishbones. Dont  care she my motor lol
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: TheBoy on 05 August 2012, 12:42:05
F.C.M. Wheel Alignment in Bristol!
Ring Lee Colgan on Mob 07940658321
He works in harmony with WIM, and understands the Omega completely!

HTH

Brills I had found them online and wasn't too sure. I'll be going to Bristol :) cheers guys

My hubby is not convinced we need the geometry doing after changing the wishbones. Dont  care she my motor lol
You do.

I local member just paid £300 for new front tyres, and within 3k/3months the canvas is showing...   ...ok, thats an extreme case, but poor geometry on the Omega really does wreck tyres quickly.
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: feeutfo on 05 August 2012, 12:59:03
Wim recomend set up once a year. Extreme perhaps.

But given how new suspension takes a month or two to settle. Then there may be a couple of years of stability, then a gradual degrading as springs and bushes age on any car. And add in the owners awareness and how these jobs have a tendency to lose priority it's probably not a bad mentality to have.

While its arguable if set up is necessary after wb change, although not in my book, it's a certainty the rest of the suspension on the car will have degraded and lost its original position since it was last set.

Now is the perfect time to do ANY related work on the steering and suspension.
A thorough check over.
Replace any steering or suspension parts.
Set up.
Fit new tyres.

Relax knowing the car will be good for a fair while, and won't rip the arse out if the tyres in short order.

(if fitting new springs allow a month or two before set up to allow the new suspension to settle ;) Preferably not on new tyres though. Leave the old ones on until the process is complete if pos.)
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 August 2012, 12:59:48

I local member just paid £300 for new front tyres, and within 3k/3months the canvas is showing...   ...ok, thats an extreme case, but poor geometry on the Omega really does wreck tyres quickly.

Replacement wishbones aren't accurately made at all, and since they position the lower pivot point, they do make a big difference to camber and toe. In addition, the last time the car was set up, the bushes might have already "given" a bit.

Mine noticeably wore between here and Micheldever. ;D Got a strange vibration half way there, too, which may have been related to a wheel nut torque deficiency syndrome.  :-X
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: feeutfo on 05 August 2012, 13:02:57

I local member just paid £300 for new front tyres, and within 3k/3months the canvas is showing...   ...ok, thats an extreme case, but poor geometry on the Omega really does wreck tyres quickly.

Replacement wishbones aren't accurately made at all, and since they position the lower pivot point, they do make a big difference to camber and toe. In addition, the last time the car was set up, the bushes might have already "given" a bit.

Mine noticeably wore between here and Micheldever. ;D Got a strange vibration half way there, too, which may have been related to a wheel nut torque deficiency syndrome.  :-X
ah, I see you had to down tools to help a fumbling tb in the middle of your own quite competant work. He's a bugger for that. ;)
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 05 August 2012, 13:14:21
Don't worry my car I wear the trousers if u guys strongly advise to get it done it gets done!!!!

Who cares what hubby thinks  ;D ;D I'm the mechanic in this house!!!
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: sassanach on 05 August 2012, 13:26:39
whereabouts in zummerzet are you based?
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 August 2012, 13:27:10
Don't worry my car I wear the trousers if u guys strongly advise to get it done it gets done!!!!

Who cares what hubby thinks  ;D ;D I'm the mechanic in this house!!!

Don't break the news to him just yet. You might need him to lean on the crowbar when it comes to separating the bottom balljoint from the knuckle. :y
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 05 August 2012, 13:49:56
whereabouts in zummerzet are you based?

Yeovil near RNAS yeovilton
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 05 August 2012, 13:51:30
Don't worry my car I wear the trousers if u guys strongly advise to get it done it gets done!!!!

Who cares what hubby thinks  ;D ;D I'm the mechanic in this house!!!

Don't break the news to him just yet. You might need him to lean on the crowbar when it comes to separating the bottom balljoint from the knuckle. :y

Good point lol I don't have the body weight lol
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: TheBoy on 05 August 2012, 14:56:02
Wim recomend set up once a year. Extreme perhaps.
I guess a lot of your driving is motorway, given your location, and where you work? Hmmm, nice smooth motorways...

For us country bumpkins, its probably not often enough, with our bumpy, bouncy, potholed, bendy roads.  Mine often needs more than just a 'slight tweak' ;)
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: TheBoy on 05 August 2012, 14:59:41
which may have been related to a wheel nut torque deficiency syndrome.  :-X
You've been hanging around that Gixer fella too long. Last time I trusted him to do up wheelbolts on my car, I subsequently took it on an agressive 70m drive home from his place. Noticed a problem at my local tesco, with a lot of rear end movement when manuovering, and some strange noises.

Got it home, jacked it up, and undid the wheelbolts by hand.  Surprisingly, I still had all 10...
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: feeutfo on 05 August 2012, 15:06:17
which may have been related to a wheel nut torque deficiency syndrome.  :-X
You've been hanging around that Gixer fella too long. Last time I trusted him to do up wheelbolts on my car, I subsequently took it on an agressive 70m drive home from his place. Noticed a problem at my local tesco, with a lot of rear end movement when manuovering, and some strange noises.

Got it home, jacked it up, and undid the wheelbolts by hand.  Surprisingly, I still had all 10...
no problem on my cars. It's just yours "we" have trouble with. ;D
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: cnj on 05 August 2012, 15:29:44
Hi,not long had my N/S/F wishbone replaced,rear bolts practically fell out but the Bottom Ball Joint fought all the way even with a 4' wishbone lever.In view of the time to swap one for new over rebushing and new ball joint, i would go for total wishbone replacement every time, unless you have access to very cheap labour !
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: hotel21 on 05 August 2012, 16:09:37
Firstly, apologies for the potential thread highjack but - for those knowing such things, what's the current best source for front wishbone polybushes please?  Would rather spend a couple of extra pennies for good/best quality but are they much of a muchness in quality?

Ta.....   :)
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: TheBoy on 05 August 2012, 16:12:58
Firstly, apologies for the potential thread highjack but - for those knowing such things, what's the current best source for front wishbone polybushes please?  Would rather spend a couple of extra pennies for good/best quality but are they much of a muchness in quality?

Ta.....   :)
I use powerflex. About £45 delivered from dc performance, possibly a little cheaper elsewhere.

You need to make sure your rear bush is in good nick, and the balljoint is sound, else you may as well change the entire wishbone.
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: TheBoy on 05 August 2012, 16:14:50
http://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap/601886/vauxhall/powerflex-poly-bushes/pff80-902.html
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: hotel21 on 05 August 2012, 16:19:05
Daz put new gen bones on at newent either last year or year before. Since fitting new discs and pads on the front I've been 'enjoying' the brakes at the expense of dust on the wheels from the Oe pads plus squirm on heavy braking. A jack up and prod with a breaker bar shows front bushes are suss. Rears seem fine so will do the poly in situ to keep settings.
Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Andy H on 05 August 2012, 16:34:21
I got mine from Eurocarparts, paid £45 but cannot remember if that was including VAT.  :-\

Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: feeutfo on 05 August 2012, 19:13:05
The only choice is Powerflex afaik... front wb bush/anti roll bar bush available.

So it's just a case of who sells them cheapest. :)



Title: Re: Wishbones
Post by: Marie on 21 August 2012, 13:44:00
Hi Guys

well its wishbone week..........lol as soon as i can confirm i have the ramp for a day. ;D ;D ;D

I have brought the wishbones from all german parts great guys also brought new drop links too. thought what the hell might as well they are half off any way. lol

Also looking at doing the front discs as i have to remove the caliper did the rear brake discs pads and shoes last weekend. As Andy C said at this rate you will have a new car lol.

Bonus bit i have found someone close by who will do the geometery for me and put the setting to those that Turk sent me from wim and not expensive ether that without the forces discount too  :y :y :y plus when chatting to the gent he sounded like he new about the omega and set up issues. Was impressed when i said i do all my work on my motor but we will see.

only thing left is the gas service and to get my car mopped.