Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: kluku5 on 14 August 2012, 09:21:17
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I need some help please :)
My car is magically losing coolant somewhere. I got under the car and saw the engine was wet at back around the clutch, so I thought maybe it's HBV.
But when I did the pressure test, no coolant leaked anywhere, and pressure stayed in the engine, like there was no leak at all. It's still losing coolant.
There is no oil or petrol in the header tank, only clean coolant.
Could this still be the HBV?
Thank you!
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I need some help please :)
My car is magically losing coolant somewhere. I got under the car and saw the engine was wet at back around the clutch, so I thought maybe it's HBV.
But when I did the pressure test, no coolant leaked anywhere, and pressure stayed in the engine, like there was no leak at all. It's still losing coolant.
There is no oil or petrol in the header tank, only clean coolant.
Could this still be the HBV?
Thank you!
it sometimes only leaks when on/off. :y
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I need some help please :)
My car is magically losing coolant somewhere. I got under the car and saw the engine was wet at back around the clutch, so I thought maybe it's HBV.
But when I did the pressure test, no coolant leaked anywhere, and pressure stayed in the engine, like there was no leak at all. It's still losing coolant.
There is no oil or petrol in the header tank, only clean coolant.
Could this still be the HBV?
Thank you!
it sometimes only leaks when on/off. :y
yep.. and unfortunately reservoir cap is a sneaky leak area.. stop the car on a silent place( and no one around) and listen to it ;D (so people wont think you are mad)
other candidates
oil cooler area
thermostat
radiator hoses and corners
behind the engine
and finally the oscar goes to head gaskets :(
ps: you can use color dyes to find also
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Coolant bridge seals maybe for second nomination :(
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The engine didn't lose any pressure (intake off), can it still be hoses and such? Is there any way to see behind the engine when it's running? It was wet at back, so it must leak from there somewhere. Maybe I should just change the HBV and see if I'm still losing coolant, since that's a common issue? Coolant bridge sits in the V right?
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Several pipes joining at the rear of the head...coolant bridge and coolant transfer pipe all of which have hose clamp/jubilee which could be leaking .
Other possible area is the coolant transfer pipe to rear of block as has a rubber "0" ring seal all worthy of a thorough investigation.
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It's possible the hbv only leaks with ac on lo only, or vice versa, as it's has two modes operated via vacuum pipe on the top.
If checking this particular fault, as mine has a load of LPG plumbing in the way, I remove the scuttle to view view the hbv for leaks while the engine is running, allowing you to Play with ac settings and spot any leaks. But it's also possible to check in the same way with the scuttle still fitted on a standard car by reaching round the back to the hbv and feeling for water. It will be hot though. ;)
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Ok then, I will remove the scuttle to check the HBV, and if it doesen't leak I guess I will have to remove the intake to check the hoses at back. I will post again if I find anything during the weekend. Thank You all :)
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I have also seen coolant leaks that only happen when cold, or indeed, hot, but not both. Might explain why you aren't reproducing the problem. HBV is the most likely culprit, though.
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My money is on HBV - you should be able to get your hand down there (drivers side back of plenum) and feel for any wetness.
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I have also seen coolant leaks that only happen when cold, or indeed, hot, but not both. Might explain why you aren't reproducing the problem. HBV is the most likely culprit, though.
yep.. its the starting point..
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I did reach there when I pressure tested the system, and didn't feel any wetness (ofcourse, because pressure stayed in the engine :P). I'll try again with scuttle removed and running engine :)
Oh, also got a fault code 15 (Coolant Temperature Voltage High). Could it be related to leaking coolant?
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OK, so i removed the wiper scuttle today, and tryed to find some leaks with a running engine. I tryed both HI and LO settings, but i couldn't find anything, felt around the HBV with my hand, but still couldn't find anything wet. So what do you think, should i remove the plenum and intake to check coolant bridge and all that in the "V"?
Starting to think about selling, because of that leak I can't find and I also found that she's leaking oil from valve cover gasket.
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OK, so i removed the wiper scuttle today, and tryed to find some leaks with a running engine. I tryed both HI and LO settings, but i couldn't find anything, felt around the HBV with my hand, but still couldn't find anything wet. So what do you think, should i remove the plenum and intake to check coolant bridge and all that in the "V"?
Starting to think about selling, because of that leak I can't find and I also found that she's leaking oil from valve cover gasket.
Yes remove and check for dampness around bridge seals or furry white water deposits around the area , would replace the seals and bolts while you have it in bits then eliminate ... only pennies and you may need new rocker cover gasket , if so replace and torq down to correct tightness :)
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Cam cover gaskets are common failure sadly. Fit genuine only from a dealer, before the oil damages the ignition system.
If your confident the hbv is not leaking, next step is to remove the plenum, inlet manifold, and plastic wedge so you can see the oil cooler cover plate. Preferably with engine hot.
Then pressurise the system again. examine the v of the engine for leaks, although there will be residue and chrystalised coolent as a give away.
Btw, what year is your 3.0 ? If 98 check core plugs at rear of cylinder head by pot 6 / coil PAC.
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I need some help please :)
My car is magically losing coolant somewhere. I got under the car and saw the engine was wet at back around the clutch, so I thought maybe it's HBV.
But when I did the pressure test, no coolant leaked anywhere, and pressure stayed in the engine, like there was no leak at all. It's still losing coolant.
There is no oil or petrol in the header tank, only clean coolant.
Could this still be the HBV?
Thank you!
it sometimes only leaks when on/off. :y
yep.. and unfortunately reservoir cap is a sneaky leak area.. stop the car on a silent place( and no one around) and listen to it ;D (so people wont think you are mad)
other candidates
oil cooler area
thermostat
radiator hoses and corners
behind the engine
and finally the oscar goes to head gaskets :(
ps: you can use color dyes to find also
and must add heater matrix.. I'm afraid you need to check those points.. starting from the easiest..
also you can add color dyes..
ps: in a dark place the coolant loss will be shiny under black light..
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when you pressure test-engine cold - when hot metal expands so could be bridge under inlet manifold - my saloon had that problem,but check HBV first :y
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...and my applologies but this bothers me a little, but how does adding a dye to the coolent help? Unless it glows in the dark in a fluorescent style with goggles, like air con die?
If a liquid is visible, how does it matter what colour it is? Especialy as it likely already has, for example, a red colour to it already?
Having traced quite a few coolent leaks on omegas, as most owners will have to at some point let's face it, I've never once thought "that job would have been easier if the coolent had a colour to it." ...or even a different colour, for that matter.
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I wouldn't rule out HBV - just changed mine on 2.2 based on where water was dripping under car. I could see it leaking while installed (despite trying AC hot / cold test) but once out it was clear by white staining it had been and the change has fixed my problem.
Steve
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Thank you all for your posts :)
Before I do anything, let me ask you this:
I found another leak from on top of the radiator, on the right, a crack in the plastick. The place with a lot of glue :D.
(http://s11.postimage.org/eqqghy7n7/IMAG0285.jpg)
I couldn't stop it, so should I get a new rad from somewhere?
Now the question I meant before: To my sad discovery I found the bottom seal on my windscreen is not glued at all, and the padding under the scuttle was like a sponge. So could it be that, when raining, the water goes under the seal into the padding, and runs down the back of the engine, onto the bellhousing?
(http://s11.postimage.org/xn16ywfub/IMAG0288.jpg)
The sponge:
(http://s8.postimage.org/7kqzl8q5h/IMAG0287.jpg)
Oh, my car is year 2000 :)
And the usual Thank you, I would probably be bald by now if there weren't this forum :D
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...and my applologies but this bothers me a little, but how does adding a dye to the coolent help? Unless it glows in the dark in a fluorescent style with goggles, like air con die?
If a liquid is visible, how does it matter what colour it is? Especialy as it likely already has, for example, a red colour to it already?
Having traced quite a few coolent leaks on omegas, as most owners will have to at some point let's face it, I've never once thought "that job would have been easier if the coolent had a colour to it." ...or even a different colour, for that matter.
if you add a dye no need for anything you can see with naked eye in daylight.. and for your information not everyone uses red VX ;)
"Most commercial antifreeze formulations include corrosion inhibiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosion_inhibitor) compounds, and a colored dye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye) (commonly a green, red, orange, yellow, or blue fluorescent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent)) to aid in identification"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze)
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Thank you all for your posts :)
Before I do anything, let me ask you this:
I found another leak from on top of the radiator, on the right, a crack in the plastick. The place with a lot of glue :D .
I couldn't stop it, so should I get a new rad from somewhere?
Now the question I meant before: To my sad discovery I found the bottom seal on my windscreen is not glued at all, and the padding under the scuttle was like a sponge. So could it be that, when raining, the water goes under the seal into the padding, and runs down the back of the engine, onto the bellhousing?
The sponge:
Oh, my car is year 2000 :)
And the usual Thank you, I would probably be bald by now if there weren't this forum :D
kluku my personel experience tells me that once omegas start to leak coolant its likely to be more than one point as the car is old.. my car was leaking from heater matrix, oil cooler, hbv,coolant reservoir cap areas when I bought it (it was 7 years old at that time) and finally it topped the list with head gasket last year.. if you ask my opinion before chucking money try to be sure from leak points as much as posssible.. :-\
and must add also.. never ignore head gasket possibility, many owners rarely change coolant which becomes acidic and eats head gasket.. although in compression tests it may not show (fire rings may be ok) its a possibility..
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...and my applologies but this bothers me a little, but how does adding a dye to the coolent help? Unless it glows in
and apologies but why it bothers you ? ???
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...and my applologies but this bothers me a little, but how does adding a dye to the coolent help? Unless it glows in
and apologies but why it bothers you ? ???
because it already has a colour dye in it...? ???
And even if it didn't have a colour, how does the colour help?
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...and my applologies but this bothers me a little, but how does adding a dye to the coolent help? Unless it glows in
and apologies but why it bothers you ? ???
because it already has a colour dye in it...? ???
And even if it didn't have a colour, how does the colour help?
these may give enough idea I think
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805003803AAx7OHB (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805003803AAx7OHB)
http://www.kenteurope.com/uk/datasheets/84237.pdf (http://www.kenteurope.com/uk/datasheets/84237.pdf)
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447 (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447)
they are sold seperately as seen
http://www.amazon.com/UView-B483906-Radiator-Coolant-Dye/dp/B0019CLI1I (http://www.amazon.com/UView-B483906-Radiator-Coolant-Dye/dp/B0019CLI1I)
why ?
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...and my applologies but this bothers me a little, but how does adding a dye to the coolent help? Unless it glows in
and apologies but why it bothers you ? ???
because it already has a colour dye in it...? ???
And even if it didn't have a colour, how does the colour help?
these may give enough idea I think
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805003803AAx7OHB (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805003803AAx7OHB)
http://www.kenteurope.com/uk/datasheets/84237.pdf (http://www.kenteurope.com/uk/datasheets/84237.pdf)
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447 (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447)
they are sold seperately as seen
http://www.amazon.com/UView-B483906-Radiator-Coolant-Dye/dp/B0019CLI1I (http://www.amazon.com/UView-B483906-Radiator-Coolant-Dye/dp/B0019CLI1I)
why ?
As said previously, I could possibly understand the uv dies. And, as said, the colour already exists in the coolent anyway, as you've just posted.
So how does the colour of the liquid help anyone to see a liquid? It's wet. This alOne stands out in a normally dry engine bay.
Now if the engine was already wet, for god knows what reason, that would make perfect sense, to separate the coolent die from the wet engine.
But as the omega engine does not reside in a boat normally, although some might argue it should ;D and would be dry unless there is a leak, I can't see how the extra expense of a dye in the coolent helps I.D a leak source.
The basic identification of water, or any liquid being a liquid does, not rely on the presence of a colour. Especially in a dry engine bay where no other liquid is, or should be present.
I would concede the uv idea, but only if in a dark unlit area such as the back of a condenser.
Waiste of time and money on a coolent leak.
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...and my applologies but this bothers me a little, but how does adding a dye to the coolent help? Unless it glows in
and apologies but why it bothers you ? ???
because it already has a colour dye in it...? ???
And even if it didn't have a colour, how does the colour help?
these may give enough idea I think
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805003803AAx7OHB (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805003803AAx7OHB)
http://www.kenteurope.com/uk/datasheets/84237.pdf (http://www.kenteurope.com/uk/datasheets/84237.pdf)
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447 (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447)
they are sold seperately as seen
http://www.amazon.com/UView-B483906-Radiator-Coolant-Dye/dp/B0019CLI1I (http://www.amazon.com/UView-B483906-Radiator-Coolant-Dye/dp/B0019CLI1I)
why ?
As said previously, I could possibly understand the uv dies. And, as said, the colour already exists in the coolent anyway, as you've just posted.
So how does the colour of the liquid help anyone to see a liquid? It's wet. 1.This alOne stands out in a normally dry engine bay.
Now if the engine was already wet, for god knows what reason, that would make perfect sense, to separate the coolent die from the wet engine.
But as the omega engine does not reside in a boat normally, although some might argue it should ;D and would be dry unless there is a leak, I can't see how the extra expense of a dye in the coolent helps I.D a leak source.
The basic identification of water, or any liquid being a liquid does, not rely on the presence of a colour. Especially in a dry engine bay where no other liquid is, or should be present.
I would concede the uv idea, but only if in a dark unlit area such as the back of a condenser.
2.Waiste of time and money on a coolent leak.
1.your assumption of wet depends on the amount of flow.. if its like a River ;D and if the coolant not finished yet you may be able to see it.. but if that was the general case those coolant dyes would have the customer potential to be none which is obviously not the case.. (and most cases)..
2. Time and money spend to solve coolant leaks is not a waste as you know already.. besides you also already know what consequences a coolant leak may bring .. otherwise this kind of thread wont frequently be seen in general help section :)
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1 sorry don't understand your reply.
2 messing about with dye is not finding a coolant leak. It's waisting time and money messing around with dye for no gain what so ever. Especially as its IN THE COOLANT ALREADY. ;D
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1 sorry don't understand your reply.
2 messing about with dye is not finding a coolant leak. It's waisting time and money messing around with dye for no gain what so ever. Especially as its IN THE COOLANT ALREADY. ;D
ok then why those people cant find the leak if its so visible ?
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1 sorry don't understand your reply.
2 messing about with dye is not finding a coolant leak. It's waisting time and money messing around with dye for no gain what so ever. Especially as its IN THE COOLANT ALREADY. ;D
ok then why those people cant find the leak if its so visible ?
cem, pull the other one. Your not that stupid.
Iirc, the op may well have the plenum, inlet and wedge obstructing the view. No amount of colour will change that.... For example. ;D
Colour won't help him to look at the radiator either. ;)
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1 sorry don't understand your reply.
2 messing about with dye is not finding a coolant leak. It's waisting time and money messing around with dye for no gain what so ever. Especially as its IN THE COOLANT ALREADY. ;D
ok then why those people cant find the leak if its so visible ?
cem, pull the other one. Your not that stupid.
Iirc, the op may well have the plenum, inlet and wedge obstructing the view. No amount of colour will change that.... For example. ;D
Colour won't help him to look at the radiator either. ;)
chris , if your statement is correct , people must be able to find the leak easily on 4 pots .. but I have seen numerous cases that even leaks in 4 pots can not be discovered easy .. because engines are hot and coolant quickly evaporates on it..
you also already know that V6 engine not only looses coolant from under plenum.. there are other areas..
next time a 4 pot coolant problem arises in general discussion , what will we say, "look carefully you will find it" ;D
ps: just google "mystery coolant loss" , and count how many 4 pots you will see ;)
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1 sorry don't understand your reply.
2 messing about with dye is not finding a coolant leak. It's waisting time and money messing around with dye for no gain what so ever. Especially as its IN THE COOLANT ALREADY. ;D
ok then why those people cant find the leak if its so visible ?
cem, pull the other one. Your not that stupid.
Iirc, the op may well have the plenum, inlet and wedge obstructing the view. No amount of colour will change that.... For example. ;D
Colour won't help him to look at the radiator either. ;)
chris , if your statement is correct , people must be able to find the leak easily on 4 pots .. but I have seen numerous cases that even leaks in 4 pots can not be discovered easy .. because engines are hot and coolant quickly evaporates on it..
you also already know that V6 engine not only looses coolant from under plenum.. there are other areas..
next time a 4 pot coolant problem arises in general discussion , what will we say, "look carefully you will find it" ;D
but open the bonet first. ;D
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Well ok, maybe I should use dies, but I thought that maybe its just the plastic next to the rad thats leaking, and the bellhousing was wet because rain poured there from under the scuttle? The crack in the plastic was not visible to naked eye, but it was leaking water quite heavy. And it's also wet straight down from there, I'm not sure if its leaking from somewhere else, or it is the water form the top of plastic.
The car has also had a front-end crash most definetly, because the registration plate is ruined, a repainted fender and so on. So I thought maybe just the rad is f****d up, and I could find a replacement one from a scrapyard or something.
If I didn't like the car so much, I'd have probably sold the car a long time ago :P
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Well ok, maybe I should use dies, but I thought that maybe its just the plastic next to the rad thats leaking, and the bellhousing was wet because rain poured there from under the scuttle? The crack in the plastic was not visible to naked eye, but it was leaking water quite heavy. And it's also wet straight down from there, I'm not sure if its leaking from somewhere else, or it is the water form the top of plastic.
The car has also had a front-end crash most definetly, because the registration plate is ruined, a repainted fender and so on. So I thought maybe just the rad is f****d up, and I could find a replacement one from a scrapyard or something.
If I didn't like the car so much, I'd have probably sold the car a long time ago :P
looking at the picture , repaired rad doesnt seem to be healthy and cant predict how it will behave on a forced run :-\
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Well, the glue didn't stop the leak, it's still coming through.
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We have a reasonable supplier here for radiators, not sure that will help in Estonia though...? :-\
Rad needs replacing, regardless of colour. ;D
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We have a reasonable supplier here for radiators, not sure that will help in Estonia though...? :-\
Rad needs replacing, regardless of colour. ;D
if there is another leak ? ;)
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I'm sure I can find a rad from somewhere here in Estonia, at least I hope so :D.
And if there is another leak, at least I know that it is not the rad anymore :P.
I have to eliminate possible leaks one after the other anyway...