Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: jimbobmccoy on 14 August 2012, 21:18:45
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So, having tried a new plug in the vain hope it would catch I now know I need to rethread the head.
How easy is it to put a Heliocoil in, with the block in situ, as I think I can get enough access at the back to do it.
Also, where does one acquire a Heliocoil kit?
TIA
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So, having tried a new plug in the vain hope it would catch I now know I need to rethread the head.
How easy is it to put a Heliocoil in, with the block in situ, as I think I can get enough access at the back to do it.
Also, where does one acquire a Heliocoil kit?
TIA
Spark plug? I'd try to steer clear of Helicoils & find somewhere local that can fit a Time sert (http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplug.html) Helicoils aren't too bad if the thread is then used for something to be screwed in and left for ever more, but for something that will have to come back out again reasonably regularly, they're not that good - the Helicoil often unscrews.
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+1 for the timesert, helicoils are pants for spark plugs unless you will not be changing it in the rest of the cars lifetime
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+1 for the timesert, helicoils are pants for spark plugs unless you will not be changing it in the rest of the cars lifetime
I thought it was you that had had one fitted ...... :y
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+1 for the timesert, helicoils are pants for spark plugs unless you will not be changing it in the rest of the cars lifetime
I thought it was you that had had one fitted ...... :y
Twas on your advice Andy and worked a treat :y
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Thanks for the advice. Had a look for time sert and the kit with the tools in is about £200.
Had a quote from one garage of £2-300 and am waiting to hear back from another.
Now, do I do it myself and have the agro of it, or do I pay to have it done?
At least if a garage balls it up and don't put it in straight it's their problem an not mine, that being said, it all seems a tad expensive for what I thought seemed a simple enough job.
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They are having a laugh at that price and are probably quoting to take off the head, I found an old school guy who said as it was an ally head any tiny swarf he couldn't suck out would just burn up when it was started up. Worked a treat and cost me £90 all in.
Phone round any machine shops/ engine refurbishers in the area, someone will do it but at your risk. Either that or helicoil it yourself and put a bloody good plug in and leave it in forever!!
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They are having a laugh at that price and are probably quoting to take off the head, I found an old school guy who said as it was an ally head any tiny swarf he couldn't suck out would just burn up when it was started up. Worked a treat and cost me £90 all in.
Phone round any machine shops/ engine refurbishers in the area, someone will do it but at your risk. Either that or helicoil it yourself and put a bloody good plug in and leave it in forever!!
I was thinking that,set of platinum plugs have around 60 k lifespan so may see the car out :y
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A std GM quad has a rated life of 80k ;)
Trouble is, any plug will start to come loose at 50K
My oil expereince of helicoil is on a sump plug. Never had an issue with it coming out, despite some very severe provocation. I think there is a lot of "a bloke down the pub said" BS about the pitfalls of helicoils.
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A std GM quad has a rated life of 80k ;)
Trouble is, any plug will start to come loose at 50K
My oil expereince of helicoil is on a sump plug. Never had an issue with it coming out, despite some very severe provocation. I think there is a lot of "a bloke down the pub said" BS about the pitfalls of helicoils.
I used one on a 24v Senny spark plug many years ago and didn't have a problem come plug change time :y
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What about using Loctite (or similar) on the helicoil?
Leave it overnight, perhaps, to 'cure' before fitting the spark plug? :-\
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What about using Loctite (or similar) on the helicoil?
Leave it overnight, perhaps, to 'cure' before fitting the spark plug? :-\
I'm sure my sump was threadlocked or similar... ...maybe MDTM will remember :-\
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Dont recall it, remember the tread being tapped, helicoiled, then had a bit of oil poured in to wash out the swarf.
was a few years ago mind.
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I think there is a lot of "a bloke down the pub said" BS about the pitfalls of helicoils.
Speaking fromm personal experience, I've had a few Helicoils over the years that have unscrewed with whatever it was that was screwed into it (I hadn't fitted the Helicoil ;)). If you compare the two, the Time Sert is all in one piece & is far superior IMHO :y :y
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An alternative manufacturer of thread inserts (very like Helicoil) are Recoil.
They sell a range of kits including the necessary tools + 10 inserts.
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/recoil-38148-2-replaces-38140-m14-x-125-s-p44137 (http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/recoil-38148-2-replaces-38140-m14-x-125-s-p44137)
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No loctite used on the sump plug.
Never had one unscrew either, its probably very dependent on the quality of the helicoil.
Either way a helicoil is more than strong enough (much stronger than the original tapped casting), much cheaper to do, can be done in situ and is reliable.
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Getting a good clean dry thread seems to be the key, followed by turning the tool backwards to get the coil to bite before snapping the tang off neatly.
I imagine that the tang will drop down in the plug hole if the supplied tool is used to snap it off :-\ (so thin nosed pliers for the last bit then.....)
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can be done in situ and is reliable.
and soooooo reliable, that Time Sert do an over size kit for use after a Helicoil has failed ......
NOTE: If the hole was previously REPAIRED with Helicoil or save-a-thread style insert.
Use our BIG-SERT for oversized spark plug repairs click here:
http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplug.html
http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert_sparkplug.html ::) ::)
If a Helicoil can be done in situ, I can't see any reason why a Time Sert shouldn't be done in situ either ??? ??? ???
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If people are afraid of Helicoils may i suggest they stay away from airplanes ;)
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If people are afraid of Helicoils may i suggest they stay away from airplanes ;)
never said I was afraid ... just said that there's better on the market now. ie a one piece solid thread insert rather than a coil of thread that's able to unwind from the hole it's threaded into. :y
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Does the success of one of these depend on the amount, or qulaity, of material left to screw it into...?
Rather than the quality of whatever product is used..? :-\
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Does the success of one of these .....
Helicoil or Time sert ......... :-\ :-\ :-\
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If helicoils are fitted correctly they should be good. Most of the problematic ones I've dealt with were not seated properly in the first place. IMHO if you get a helicoil put in by your average mechanic that rarely uses these things you have a 50/50 chance of it being duff.
The little helicoils can be a right PITA sometimes and some batches are worse than others. Spark plug size ones should be fine though.
Having said that, given the choice I'd still choose a timesert/keensert or similar due to ease of use. Depends what available I guess.
The thread will need tapping out to a larger size anyway so the thread quality should be good.
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So, I got the car back last Saturday.
Got a garage to do it iN the end, as the price was initially suggested as £150-ish, ended up been £100 more.......was not impressed, but apparently the inlet manifold had to come off and some modification of tools was required.......to be fair I can see this being true, it is a deep plug and an awkward spot.
Oddly any garage I spoke to I asked about a helicoil and they all replied that they wouldn't use that, that they'd use a different insert, likes I guess either experience, or pub science has lead them to lean towards a solid insert.
Options suggested where either snap on version of time sert, or time sert itself. In the end a time sert went in.
Car is all good now, and defo up on power........it goes to show how a gradually declining part can affect performance drastically without being too noticeable, if it's a slow decline.
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So, I got the car back last Saturday.
Got a garage to do it iN the end, as the price was initially suggested as £150-ish, ended up been £100 more.......was not impressed, but apparently the inlet manifold had to come off and some modification of tools was required.......to be fair I can see this being true, it is a deep plug and an awkward spot.
Oddly any garage I spoke to I asked about a helicoil and they all replied that they wouldn't use that, that they'd use a different insert, likes I guess either experience, or pub science has lead them to lean towards a solid insert.
Options suggested where either snap on version of time sert, or time sert itself. In the end a time sert went in.
Car is all good now, and defo up on power........it goes to show how a gradually declining part can affect performance drastically without being too noticeable, if it's a slow decline.
Glad you're sorted. I know hind sight is a wonderful thing, but £250 would've got you A N Other head fitted :-\ :-\