Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: scottambrose on 18 August 2012, 19:56:01

Title: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 18 August 2012, 19:56:01
I had bad judder under braking from 60 so today changed the.front discs which looked almost new but I still habe slight judder. Ive also got a bit of judder and vibration at 55mph like a wheel is unbalanced but not too noticeable
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 20:27:52
I had bad judder under braking from 60 so today changed the.front discs which looked almost new but I still habe slight judder. Ive also got a bit of judder and vibration at 55mph like a wheel is unbalanced but not too noticeable

if they are not brand new you cant be sure unless they are tested in a machining shop.. but also you may have balance issues.. so a full geometry check will help imo..
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 18 August 2012, 20:31:59
Its got brand new ones now but the,ones I took off looked less than a few months old its alot better but still slightly juddery
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 20:38:01
Its got brand new ones now but the,ones I took off looked less than a few months old its alot better but still slightly juddery

ops.. sorry for misunderstanding.. must read slower..
 
in that case you need full geometry check.. can be anything..
Title: Re: judder
Post by: SteveAvfc. on 18 August 2012, 20:48:45
As Cem says a full geo set up would be your best option Wheels in motion are the people you need to see. You don't say what part of the country your from but they have franchises all over the UK.

Worth every penny.  :y :y
Title: Re: judder
Post by: Andy H on 18 August 2012, 21:20:09
What make of discs have you fitted?

My personal experience has been that fitting anything other than genuine Vauxhall is a bit of a lottery. One pattern set I fitted juddered from new >:(
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2012, 21:30:26
Cant see how full geo set up will help with brake judder guys.

They might be able to do a better job of wheel balancing with their 5stud balancer system though. :-\
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 18 August 2012, 21:33:54
Could rear brakes cause steering wheel judder
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2012, 21:35:22
Could do if it's bad enough but the whole car will be juddering too. Sounds like front to me.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: SteveAvfc. on 18 August 2012, 21:39:13
Cant see how full geo set up will help with brake judder guys.

They might be able to do a better job of wheel balancing with their 5stud balancer system though. :-\

Agree but he has also got issues at 55mph which could possibly be wheel balance issues. So after he gets the judder sorted a full geo set up would help would you agree.  :y :y :y
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 21:41:53
Cant see how full geo set up will help with brake judder guys.

They might be able to do a better job of wheel balancing with their 5stud balancer system though. :-\

Agree but he has also got issues at 55mph which could possibly be wheel balance issues. So after he gets the judder sorted a full geo set up would help would you agree.  :y :y :y

I would :y
 
plus any car used daily drops in a pothole and your balance is gone :-\ 
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2012, 21:45:15
Cant see how full geo set up will help with brake judder guys.

They might be able to do a better job of wheel balancing with their 5stud balancer system though. :-\

Agree but he has also got issues at 55mph which could possibly be wheel balance issues. So after he gets the judder sorted a full geo set up would help would you agree.  :y :y :y
Won't make an ounce of difference to wheel balance or judder on the brakes.

If there's a handling issue though, then yes it will help. Although there's no mention of that in this thread.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2012, 21:46:54
Wheel balance is not included in full geo set up. That's a seperate process.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 21:47:04
I had bad judder under braking from 60 so today changed the.front discs which looked almost new but I still habe slight judder. Ive also got a bit of judder and vibration at 55mph like a wheel is unbalanced but not too noticeable
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 21:47:44
Wheel balance is not included in full geo set up. That's a seperate process.

then its not a full geo setup Chris
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 21:54:26
Wheel balance is not included in full geo set up. That's a seperate process.

how ? you pay for laser alignment and neglect wheel balance :D
Title: Re: judder
Post by: Andy H on 18 August 2012, 21:54:47
The front discs are quite heavy. If the manufacturer didn't balance the discs they are capable of causing vibration.

After I fitted pattern discs I had the front wheels balanced several times but the vibration only went away when I fitted genuine discs. :(
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2012, 21:57:13
Geo. is short for geometric. Full geo involves adjusting the geometry settings of the car.


There is no geometry involved in wheel balancing as such.

You can have the best geo set up in the world, but if the discs are warped and the wheel balance is out it will judder and vibrate like a gooden.

Wim do not include wheel balance in a geo set up, although they are very good at wheel balancing too. :y
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 18 August 2012, 21:58:27
Il get front wheel,balance checked unless I got a distorted hub face
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2012, 22:01:06
Wheel balance is not included in full geo set up. That's a seperate process.

how ? you pay for laser alignment and neglect wheel balance :D
nope, laser alignment is different again and I've never paid for it on the omega. Because its a waiste of time on this car.

Cem, nobody in this county would take a car for full goe, if they had a judder issue. 

Two very different processes. Sorry, just is. :)
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 22:03:28
Geo. is short for geometric. Full geo involves adjusting the geometry settings of the car.


There is no geometry involved in wheel balancing as such.

You can have the best geo set up in the world, but if the discs are warped and the wheel balance is out it will judder and vibrate like a gooden.

Wim do not include wheel balance in a geo set up, although they are very good at wheel balancing too. :y

I think everyone knows what is geometry  ;D 
 
its meaningless to have one without other..  unless car dont have any problem ::)
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2012, 22:06:05
Il get front wheel,balance checked unless I got a distorted hub face
If its been balanced on a cone balancer, as they usually are, then It "might" be worth seeking out a 5stud balancer that uses the actual holes the bolts attach the wheel to the car with. It's more accurate.

But as you say, balance and a disc issue. Maybe see if the discs are seated correctly, nice and flat to the hub face. And maybe see if they wobble when you spin them. Failing that as Andy says, GM discs.

£100 on trade club for a front axle disc and pad set.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 August 2012, 22:11:42
Wheel balance is not included in full geo set up. That's a seperate process.

how ? you pay for laser alignment and neglect wheel balance :D
nope, laser alignment is different again and I've never paid for it on the omega. Because its a waiste of time on this car.

Cem, nobody in this county would take a car for full goe, if they had a judder issue. 

Two very different processes. Sorry, just is. :)

they are 2 different processes if you have one of them done very recently.. ;) 
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 19 August 2012, 15:39:51
Ivenoticed the.judderd through.the whole car.and worse when braking gently at speeds below 50
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 19 August 2012, 20:35:06
Ivenoticed the.judderd through.the whole car.and worse when braking gently at speeds below 50

also wishbones needs checking..and in case they are shot dont pay for any geo.. as you will after require full geo..
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 19 August 2012, 20:58:18
The vibrations felt through the seat so wonder if rear discs maybe it passed mot a minth ago no probs
Title: Re: judder
Post by: Paddy Flannery on 19 August 2012, 21:02:20
Mine is suffering a similar judder only felt through the steering from about 50mph down to just below 40mph when it suddenly stops.

Is this indicative of warped front discs or buggered wishbone bushes ?

Thanks
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 19 August 2012, 21:05:19
Quite possible scotty, but impossible to tell from the wrong end of a keyboard.

Can you see the inboard side of the disc? Any rust lines round the outside edge. Any big lumps of rust fallen off the edges? How old are they etc etc...?
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 19 August 2012, 21:06:56
Mine is suffering a similar judder only felt through the steering from about 50mph down to just below 40mph when it suddenly stops.

Is this indicative of warped front discs or buggered wishbone bushes ?

Thanks
above applies to you too Paddy.

Judder on the brakes, brake issue.
Judder at speeds, wheel balance issue.
Random judder set off by anything from bumps to a jab on the brakes, buggered bushes.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 19 August 2012, 21:11:47
 ::)  personally I wouldnt be so confident about solution.. there is no guarantee that it wont be a combination..
Title: Re: judder
Post by: Paddy Flannery on 19 August 2012, 21:16:42
Cheers Chris,

I can only see outer parts of the discs. Faily smooth, no rust and no lip on the outer circumference.

I get a brake pad warning flash up on first use of the brakes every day for past week, but it always goes out and doesn't re appear until the next start of journey.

Thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 19 August 2012, 21:18:36
Are the pads low?
Title: Re: judder
Post by: Paddy Flannery on 19 August 2012, 21:26:40
Still a few mm. I'm not heavy on brakes. Acceleration sense is king !
Title: Re: judder
Post by: Paddy Flannery on 19 August 2012, 21:30:08
Scotty,

I have no intention of hijacking your thread my friend, but I have similar symptoms to you.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 19 August 2012, 21:39:43
No probs mate my rear discs look a little worn the front pads and discs were like new but I changed them anyway going to change rear brakes as it needs new h brake shoes il also get the wheel balance checked
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 20 August 2012, 19:45:10
Seem to habe cured it changed rear discs and pads and swapped rear wheels to front and seems good now alot smoother
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 20 August 2012, 19:58:01
Good man, didn't think of that. :y
Title: Re: judder
Post by: scottambrose on 20 August 2012, 20:55:31
Just a quick question when I set the handbrake how should it feel when I spin the wheel shoukd the shoes sound like they rub the disc and feel a little resistance
Title: Re: judder
Post by: feeutfo on 20 August 2012, 21:07:30
That's how I do it, but I'm no expert, I've only done it twice on an omega that i recall. How does the lever feel...?

Iirc last time I set mine I had two clicks on the hand brake, which settled into 3 clicks once settled in. I'm not saying that's correct though :-\ my memory is vague on that one.
Title: Re: judder
Post by: dbug on 20 August 2012, 21:33:49
Still a few mm. I'm not heavy on brakes. Acceleration sense is king !

From your symptoms mate get your front discs and pads changed earlier rather than later - get genuine Vx disc and pad set  :y

A few mm left on pads + brake pad warning flashing up is bad news - your braking will be seriously compromised (irrespective if you are not heavy on brakes), particularly in an emergency stop situation.  An accident may mean no insurance cover  ???