Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Olddavid on 30 August 2012, 19:34:45
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I bought a beautiful Catera with only 56000 miles on it (90k km. to you metric folks). First 20k miles trouble free. Now, oil in the spark plug wells with resultant misfire. New gaskets installed and guess what? Still misfiring. My plug wires were replaced the weekend I got the car - I always replace all maintenance items when purchasing a used vehicle so I have a baseline. I have always used Mobil One and GM's Dexcool, for what its's worth. i am certain I repaired the cam covers appropriately - I followed this sites instructions implicitly. recommendations? Coil pack or spark control? Any input appreciated, as is this site. The American repair establishment has no clue on these cars, yet they're willing to spend my $100/hr. to play at being technicians. Help! P.S. My car is a 1997 model Catera, which they tell me is equivalent of an Omega
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I'd change plugs first, and as you've changed leads, I'd suspect the DIS pack.
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I bought a beautiful Catera with only 56000 miles on it (90k km. to you metric folks). ....
Welcome to the forum! :y :y
It's just that lot on the continent that use kilometers ...... we use miles here in Great Britain! :y :y :y
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I love your terminology - "that lot"? Changed plugs, but not wires after soaking. Cleaned them with isopropyl alcohol.
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I bought a beautiful Catera with only 56000 miles on it (90k km. to you metric folks). First 20k miles trouble free. Now, oil in the spark plug wells with resultant misfire. New gaskets installed and guess what? Still misfiring. My plug wires were replaced the weekend I got the car - I always replace all maintenance items when purchasing a used vehicle so I have a baseline. I have always used Mobil One and GM's Dexcool, for what its's worth. i am certain I repaired the cam covers appropriately - I followed this sites instructions implicitly. recommendations? Coil pack or spark control? Any input appreciated, as is this site. The American repair establishment has no clue on these cars, yet they're willing to spend my $100/hr. to play at being technicians. Help! P.S. My car is a 1997 model Catera, which they tell me is equivalent of an Omega
Welcome to forum :y
I would change coolant asap.. and cambelt will be at the top of list to change..
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I love your terminology - "that lot"? Changed plugs, but not wires after soaking. Cleaned them with isopropyl alcohol.
Change
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Agreed - read for your post these had been changed !
So leads, plugs and DIS (in that order) :y
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The local gougers want $25/wire. Must be made of unobtanium. Heading out to buy. will post results. Thank you to all for your advice.
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Hello and welcome :y
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I want to give a grateful shout out to the Mark's DTM guy for his excellent how-to on cam cover gaskets. You, sir, should be a technical writer.And photographer.
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so it's ......
change cam cover gaskets according to guide
replace plugs
change plug leads
change DIS pack.
the DIS pack is a Bosch part and could well be fitted to some other US-market vehicles. They actually rust apart - rust gets inside the laminations of the iron core and breaks the casing apart.
Oregon is one of the more "temperate" parts of the US, so I suggest it's more likely that the DIS pack has failed in this manner.
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OK. Progress. Wires were original to car. But, "helper" pulled spark plug wires out and didn't label. On the DIS, what is the proper order? I cannot find a diagram indicating which wire goes to which post. I've had disastrous results with a 240 in days past when firing order wrong.
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Cylinder number 1 is the front left.
Cylinder number 4 is on the right front
You should be able to see the numbers on dispack.
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Contary to what has been stated already, I would do a few more steps before replacing anything and spending those greenbacks as self diagnosis and inspection is much cheaper than willy nilly part changing.
First question, was the breather system cleaned fully as per the guide?.
Secondly, are the plug leads connected to the DIS pack in the correct order? The 1-3-5 bank (left as you view the engine from the front, your passenger side) is easy enough but the 2-4-6 bank is not as obvious due to the wasted spark setup.
Connections are:
......5............3................1.
THIS IS THE
ELECTRIC PLUG
SIDE
......2............6................4.
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Cleaned breathers per your illustrated guide, Mark. Replaced plug wires. Car started this morning and ran like a Patek. I cannot express my gratitude enough to you folks for your insightful advice to a lost Yankee (I'm Canadian, too). In America, this car is an orphan, and even though it drives great and looks great, none of the Cadillac dealers has a clue as to how to work on it. Their estimate to replace cam gaskets, wires and plugs was $2,271! I bought the car for $2850. I think it's their way of discouraging people from bringing them in. It's my intention to drive it until something seizes, so I'm thinking we'll get to know each other in the next few years. I live in a little beach community on the Pacific ocean, right next to one of the premier Salmon and Steelhead streams in Oregon. It would be my pleasure to show any fellow gearhead around my neighborhood should any of you make the journey. My grandfather was born in Wales and next year my Mother and I are making a pilgrimage. Again, thanks to all. You'll soon be used to hearing my ignorant questions and comments.
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Cleaned breathers per your illustrated guide, Mark. Replaced plug wires. Car started this morning and ran like a Patek. I cannot express my gratitude enough to you folks for your insightful advice to a lost Yankee (I'm Canadian, too). In America, this car is an orphan, and even though it drives great and looks great, none of the Cadillac dealers has a clue as to how to work on it. Their estimate to replace cam gaskets, wires and plugs was $2,271! I bought the car for $2850. I think it's their way of discouraging people from bringing them in. It's my intention to drive it until something seizes, so I'm thinking we'll get to know each other in the next few years. I live in a little beach community on the Pacific ocean, right next to one of the premier Salmon and Steelhead streams in Oregon. It would be my pleasure to show any fellow gearhead around my neighborhood should any of you make the journey. My grandfather was born in Wales and next year my Mother and I are making a pilgrimage. Again, thanks to all. You'll soon be used to hearing my ignorant questions and comments.
I guess that was recently?
These cars cost between (about) 20,000 and 30,000 UK Pounds when new - that $30 - $45k USD.
I bought my '99 3.0 2 years ago for 500 pounds or $750 - which shows just how good value the Omega is here. I have to say that used prices do seem to have increased somewhat recently - but still much much cheaper than the US and also many parts of Europe.
FYI - all Omegas/Cateras were built in Russelsheim in Germany - with all the V6 engines being built in the England and shipped to Germany for assembly into the cars on the production line.
Most, but not all of our parts will fit the Catera - so it's worth consider shipping items and having a stock of parts. For example - a cambelt kit will be about $150 (plus shipping) and you can do it yourself with some special tools that can be "loaned" from the UK.
All the best - Rob
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Cleaned breathers per your illustrated guide, Mark. Replaced plug wires. Car started this morning and ran like a Patek. I cannot express my gratitude enough to you folks for your insightful advice to a lost Yankee (I'm Canadian, too). In America, this car is an orphan, and even though it drives great and looks great, none of the Cadillac dealers has a clue as to how to work on it. Their estimate to replace cam gaskets, wires and plugs was $2,271! I bought the car for $2850. I think it's their way of discouraging people from bringing them in. It's my intention to drive it until something seizes, so I'm thinking we'll get to know each other in the next few years. I live in a little beach community on the Pacific ocean, right next to one of the premier Salmon and Steelhead streams in Oregon. It would be my pleasure to show any fellow gearhead around my neighborhood should any of you make the journey. My grandfather was born in Wales and next year my Mother and I are makin like a Patekg a pilgrimage. Again, thanks to all. You'll soon be used to hearing my ignorant questions and comments.
like a Patek??
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like a Patek??
Going to guess that's a reference to a very, very expensive make of watch that runs rather smoothly (or I'd hope they do, given the price!)..
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Cleaned breathers per your illustrated guide, Mark. Replaced plug wires. Car started this morning and ran like a Patek. I cannot express my gratitude enough to you folks for your insightful advice to a lost Yankee (I'm Canadian, too). In America, this car is an orphan, and even though it drives great and looks great, none of the Cadillac dealers has a clue as to how to work on it. Their estimate to replace cam gaskets, wires and plugs was $2,271! I bought the car for $2850. I think it's their way of discouraging people from bringing them in. It's my intention to drive it until something seizes, so I'm thinking we'll get to know each other in the next few years. I live in a little beach community on the Pacific ocean, right next to one of the premier Salmon and Steelhead streams in Oregon. It would be my pleasure to show any fellow gearhead around my neighborhood should any of you make the journey. My grandfather was born in Wales and next year my Mother and I are makin like a Patekg a pilgrimage. Again, thanks to all. You'll soon be used to hearing my ignorant questions and comments.
like a Patek??
Patek Phillipe
http://www.patek.com/contents/default/en/home.html
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like a Patek??
Going to guess that's a reference to a very, very expensive make of watch that runs rather smoothly (or I'd hope they do, given the price!)..
good link you posted. they look very very nice.
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I should have added Phillippe. Sorry. This has been a gas. But, another fun item has come to fore - a hose at the rear of the intake that does nothing and goes nowhere. I drove over to the local "used car strip" and looked at two other Catera's, and they have this do-nothing hose, too.What am I missing? I have certainly re-connected everything I removed when disassembling the intake system. When I was a young lad, the cars they made for sale in Hawaii and Peurto Rico were plumbed for heaters, yet were NOT equipped with said device. Any parallels?
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Long plastic hose with a 'hooked' rubber end on it, by any chance (from memory)?
That's the gearbox breather, which is why it isn't hooked to anything :y
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Long plastic hose with a 'hooked' rubber end on it, by any chance (from memory)?
That's the gearbox breather, which is why it isn't hooked to anything :y
+1.
100% agree .........
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Damn. You guys feel like a vacation on our side of "the pond"? I would feel right at home drinking a beer with you guys while wrenching on our respective rides. I guess you're a car guy (person?) or you're not, huh? Do Vauxhall and Opel sell many Omegas in your market?$2850 for a garage kept one-owner car was actually less than the local rate. The average Catera with 100k+ miles sells for around $3-4000 in our local area. I think that either you understand the idea of this car or you don't. Plus, I've always budgeted my transportation costs to coincide with what I can pay for in toto. No contracts. No payments. Since a car of a certain vintage will always reach terminal depreciation, I've always gravitated to luxury rides with domestic nameplates. Unfortunately, this time I found myself a little out of my depth. Until I found this site. I'll post pics of my little red gem with the factory chrome wheels after I get home and give it a bath. Thanks for everything.
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I'm coming to the USA in the next couple of weeks. Doing a "world tour of the midwest", so not near you, I'm afraid. Could bring parts over, tho.
Have been up the pacific coast as far as Eureka, Ca and down as far as Seattle before, but never done Oregon.
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Cylinder number 1 is the front left.Front right (nearest air filter)
Cylinder number 4 is on the right frontCylinder No2 is left front (nearest battery)
You should be able to see the numbers on dispack.
I guess mechanics in the US will probably be more familiar than us about how Vee engine cylinders are numbered.......... (for those who aren't: The cylinders are numbered by their relative positions on the crankshaft. The two banks of cylinders are slightly offset and the right hand bank is forward of the left hand which is why cylinder 1 is the front cylinder of the RH bank and cylinder 2 is the front cylinder in the LH bank.
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Interestingly, back when these cars were new I was working with an American guy who came over here regularly. I took delivery of a brand new Omega whilst he was over here and a rather intersting arguement started ........
Seems his mother had a Catera and he insisted that the Omega was made by Cadillac in the US and shipped over here to be sold. I, of course, insisted otherwise and proved it to him easily enough as there is a "made in Germany" badge somewhere on it. He was "gobsmacked" ;D
It seems that the Catera was marketed specifically at the "blue rinse" generation in the US in the same way that the Lexus IS300 was targeted at school kids who would get Daddy to buy one new for them on their 16th birthday :-X. If that is the case I can see why you would get low milers some up from time to time.
I've just been to my local dealers & bought a whole bunch of parts to fix my leaky exhaust manifold gasket. I also got a complete set of filters (oil, air, pollen and fuel) and the bill for the whole lot came to 80 pounds - which is about 120US. I'd certainly be happy to ship parts over as I'm sure others would be.
BTW - fuel here is a lot more expensive than yours :'(. I filled up today and 65 litres was 87 pounds - that's about 130 USD :y. That's about the only downside of running one of these & my many of the guys on here have converted their cars so they can also run on gas as well as petrol. I have't personally, but there are a lot who have.
All the best
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UK USA
gas/LPG = Liquified Petroleum Gas (Propane)
petrol = gas (gasoline)
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Sounds much like the dealers over here to be honest.
Stick around, anything you need to know, one of the members will be able to help. The mobile mechanics might get a tad pricey, mind... ;) :y
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All was well in Cateraland for 200 miles. Good power, outstanding fuel mileage and just pleasurable to drive again. Then, we stopped to eat, came out and all hell broke loose. Check engine light blinking, and running on maybe three cylinders. I disconnected the battery cable, hoping to do what I cannot honestly say, but after re-connecting it ran well enough to get home. Time to pull codes, but I have a feeling I must have forgotten to do something obvious, or knocked some component I should've been more careful with. On my previous Cadillac - an STS - when the Crank position sensor failed I used this move to get it home for repair. Sound like a likely suspect to you? Does it make sense? I thought I had covered all possibilities by changing wires, plugs and DIS module.
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Hi, and welcome to the forum.
Miost people including myself were Omega repair novices when we joined OOF. But once you get to doing all your own repairs and servicing using the excellent guides on here it won't be long before you are a Cateras expert. :y :y :y
It is very common with crank sensor failure for the engine to cut out when hot, you may get the gearbox going into limp mode and you may or may not get any engine codes. The crank sensor is easy enough to replace and costs about £55 ($80) here with a trade card. There are two types of plug semi-oval and square, so check this before you order if it is the crankshaft sensor.
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I cannot thank everyone enough for all your advice. I know how hard-won it is. Smooth as silk now. If I was so inclined, here is where I'd put up smiley faces. But I'm not so inclined. So, again, thanks.
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Hiya have read your posts and all the respective replies. So now the starting problem is systemic to a failing "crank sensor" ;)
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I'm starting to feel like the guy who longs for the days when he had "only" a broken leg. It appears DIS is failing. Car runs fine in a very narrow bandwidth - 24-3000 RPM. Even then, it feels like its trying to miss rather than free flow. However, apply ANY load i.e. uphill, pass or let the revs drop below 2500 and its immediately running on 4 - at best. It shudders like hitting roadside rub strips, at which point I turn it off, disconnect neg. cable, smoke a cig, then re-connect and start the process all over again. I managed to drive it 90 miles yesterday in 3 and half hours to get it home by using this technique. Well, my first line of attack is to dis-assemble my valve cover gasket repair and check if anything obvious was neglected, the replace the DIS ignition module, then???? Should I replace the Crank Position sensor as a pre-emptive move? Should I replace the plug wires (they have only 200 miles on them) as they could possibly be the cause of the short. I should mention that my EGR valve on the intake plenum has RTV for a gasket as I broke the paper one and no-one had a replacement. Could that possibly be a detriment? I have traced the vacuum lines til blue-faced with frustrated tedium, looked at wires in the dark to see if I could detect electrical flashover, quixotically connected various 8 guage ground wires to various electrical devices hoping they needed more robust connecting.........with the expected non-result. I have found thoughts of parking it with the keys in the ignition in the "Felony Flats" area of town while innocently shopping with my significant other. I calculated that you guys have 10-20 of these for each one in America, ergo, your extensive experience with the cars is what I've been lucky to tao into for these past weeks. I, as always, thank you for any consideration and advice. Dave - the lost Yank - Peterson
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Difficult to advise from a distance but I have had the crank sensor fail on both the omegas I have owned.
On our cars we can check for codes by using either a paperclip or 'the pedal trick' depending on the age of car and ECU fitted Paperclip Test & Pedal Trick (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90581.0)
I don't know if this feature is present in the Catera :-\
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Would the failed crank sensor emulate the mis-fire the DIS initially exhibited? Or am I looking thru the looking glass at Alice? With no end in sight?
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Quite possibly. Did you get any warning lights?
The Omega ECU before 2000 couldn't detect problems with HT, after 2000 it can detect missfires. (I am assuming that the ECU in the Catera is like our pre 2000 ECU)
If you get a missfire and a warning light then there should be fault codes (although the code for 'no RPM signal' clears as soon as the signal returns).
If you get a missfire and no warning light then the problem is probably HT related.
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By HT, you mean high tension, as in ignition wires, yes?
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By HT, you mean high tension, as in ignition wires, yes?
Yes, (and spark plugs and ignition coils).
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By HT, you mean high tension, as in ignition wires, yes?
HT leads = High Tension leads :y :y