Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: I_want_an_Omega on 01 October 2012, 19:40:44
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Ok, I'm confused (don't take a lot I know ::) )
A couple of months ago I took the Omega to WIM in Chesham for an alignment. They pointed out that my front wheels were pointing in "opposite directions" and as a consequence the inner edge of my front tyres were worn dangerously low - i.e. cords showing :o . Ok from now on I'll be checking the whole width of the tyre - lesson learned.
I needed some new tyres there and then and asked what they had available in 225/55/16. They didn't have that big a choice - and suggested Falkens - which they assured me were good tyres - well out of the rubbish group and at the lower end of premium.
I'm now noticed that OOF generally dislikes these tyres.
So, can someone explain what's wrong with them please, and if they are as bad as I'm thinking you think they are, why do WIM suggest them? Seems that OOF rate WIM very highly but then get advised by them by buy a poorly rated product.
I have to say that they have done about 4k on the front and feel fine to me. I don't tend to chuck any car around in the wet anyway, and have had no probs at all with them so far.
My rears are Dunlop SP sports - (did have on all 4 prior to the WIM visit) which are now starting to get low @ about 4mm. With the onset of winter should I leave them where they are and replace the Dunlops when they need doing, or swap the fronts and backs over and wear the Falkens out.
Thanks guys ........
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They do like Falkens ;D
It seems that Falkens are well regarded as a 'cheap premium' tyre on many cars. However, Falken 912 esp, on the Omega, once worn a little, they seem to lack directional stability. Quite dramatically.
Its like tyre review sites, a specific tyre is more suited to some models than others.
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Saw a demonstration on T.V. once[I think on top gear]of worn tyres versus new tyres and their placement on a car.Some of it was frightening,but the upshot was that if fitting two new tyres to a car[and leaving the other two older tyres on it]then the new tyres should always be fitted to the undriven wheels as fitting them to the driven wheels could mean that the greater grip they provide could "over power"the grip offered by the "part worn"ones making for dodgy handling.
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They do like Falkens ;D
It seems that Falkens are well regarded as a 'cheap premium' tyre on many cars. However, Falken 912 esp, on the Omega, once worn a little, they seem to lack directional stability. Quite dramatically.
Its like tyre review sites, a specific tyre is more suited to some models than others.
Ok, understood. But, what I'm having trouble coming to terms with is that WIM seem to know the Omega very well in terms of chassis setup -and are well regarded here as a consequence. They then seem to "like" a tyre which dosn't seem to suit the car - which is a big concern and seems, on the face of it, to detract somewhat from that high regard. I have no idea as to why they like them - and must admit that I wasn't really aware of OOF dislike of the same tyre until after I'd bought them :-[
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OOF doesn't dislike Falkens, just chrisgixer
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Saw a demonstration on T.V. once[I think on top gear]of worn tyres versus new tyres and their placement on a car.Some of it was frightening,but the upshot was that if fitting two new tyres to a car[and leaving the other two older tyres on it]then the new tyres should always be fitted to the undriven wheels as fitting them to the driven wheels could mean that the greater grip they provide could "over power"the grip offered by the "part worn"ones making for dodgy handling.
Michelin recommend that if you get 2 new tyres, they should be fitted to the rear of the car, irrespective of which wheels drive the car. And if you go to Costco for 2, they will only fit them to the back .... no matter where you want them. ??? ???
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Saw a demonstration on T.V. once[I think on top gear]of worn tyres versus new tyres and their placement on a car.Some of it was frightening,but the upshot was that if fitting two new tyres to a car[and leaving the other two older tyres on it]then the new tyres should always be fitted to the undriven wheels as fitting them to the driven wheels could mean that the greater grip they provide could "over power"the grip offered by the "part worn"ones making for dodgy handling.
Generally, its recommended that the better tyres go on the rear, irrespective of FWD or RWD.
Its deemed that understeer is easier to cope with than oversteer.
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They do like Falkens ;D
It seems that Falkens are well regarded as a 'cheap premium' tyre on many cars. However, Falken 912 esp, on the Omega, once worn a little, they seem to lack directional stability. Quite dramatically.
Its like tyre review sites, a specific tyre is more suited to some models than others.
Ok, understood. But, what I'm having trouble coming to terms with is that WIM seem to know the Omega very well in terms of chassis setup -and are well regarded here as a consequence. They then seem to "like" a tyre which dosn't seem to suit the car - which is a big concern and seems, on the face of it, to detract somewhat from that high regard. I have no idea as to why they like them - and must admit that I wasn't really aware of OOF dislike of the same tyre until after I'd bought them :-[
WIM are a geometry specialist. Thats what they do.
I guess they have experience of that tyre on other cars, where it may work well.
We should all do our own homework before buying such things, as only we know our requirements.
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They do like Falkens ;D
It seems that Falkens are well regarded as a 'cheap premium' tyre on many cars. However, Falken 912 esp, on the Omega, once worn a little, they seem to lack directional stability. Quite dramatically.
Its like tyre review sites, a specific tyre is more suited to some models than others.
Ok, understood. But, what I'm having trouble coming to terms with is that WIM seem to know the Omega very well in terms of chassis setup -and are well regarded here as a consequence. They then seem to "like" a tyre which dosn't seem to suit the car - which is a big concern and seems, on the face of it, to detract somewhat from that high regard. I have no idea as to why they like them - and must admit that I wasn't really aware of OOF dislike of the same tyre until after I'd bought them :-[
WIM are a geometry specialist. Thats what they do.
I guess they have experience of that tyre on other cars, where it may work well.
We should all do our own homework before buying such things, as only we know our requirements.
Hmmmm - but hold on a moment, they are also "Black Boots" - a tyre specialist, so isn't that what they do also?
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Generally, its recommended that the better tyres go on the rear, irrespective of FWD or RWD.
Its deemed that understeer is easier to cope with than oversteer.
Isn't that what I said? ??? ??? ;)
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The BMW boys love their Falkens. I dont think they are much better than budget tyres. A lot of outfits recommend them. But tyres are subjective. Perhaps thats why?
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Generally, its recommended that the better tyres go on the rear, irrespective of FWD or RWD.
Its deemed that understeer is easier to cope with than oversteer.
Isn't that what I said? ??? ??? ;)
I think it was in response to reply no:2.
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leave the rears at the moment and buy some winter tyres.
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Happy with them when I had them on the 2.2, had 912's and 452's on the rear. Got 35k out of them, silent tyre, no road noise, for normal folk they are fine. It's only fat people with digital throttle pedals who don't like them ;)
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Happy with them when I had them on the 2.2, had 912's and 452's on the rear. Got 35k out of them, silent tyre, no road noise, for normal folk they are fine. It's only fat people with digital throttle pedals who don't like them ;)
Ok, so a fat(ish) person with a normal throttle should be ok then?
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I`m as slim as a butchers dog & drive a 2.2...... but I`m half thru a set of firestones
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Happy with them when I had them on the 2.2, had 912's and 452's on the rear. Got 35k out of them, silent tyre, no road noise, for normal folk they are fine. It's only fat people with digital throttle pedals who don't like them ;)
Ok, so a fat(ish) person with a normal throttle should be ok then?
Yup. If you drive with just "on" of "off" positions for throttle & brake you won't like them. But for average drivers I think they are fine. Side wall strength was questioned, I had 16's I never had 17's which is where all complaints come from.
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Never understood why the Omega's are so sensitive to the Falkerns. I've used them loads on Carlton's without issue. I've even got 452's fitted to my Lotus Carlton. Considering they are at the more budget end of the price they do perform rather well.
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It's to do with the construction, as Tunnie says they are exceptionally quiet, which means a soft sidewall, and the way they wear, and the number of corrections needed to keep the car straight as they wear. And yes it does depend how you drive, due to the way McPherson strut suspension adjusts the camber to body roll.
They tram line from new, as a set of 4, if you only have them on one axle you'll half the effect.
They have a soft construction.
Add in soft Elite suspension. And hence camber deflection.
A progressive driving style in the corners. That makes the camber deflect.
...and after about 1/4 of the tread has gone you'll start to notice the car wandering around. Difficult to keep straight and a disconnected feel at the steering wheel.
By about half worn the car becomes impossible to keep in lane on uneven B roads above 40mph.
Proof..? Fit wheels with totally worn out Dunlops car drives straight as a die. Refit Falken shod wheels car becomes dangerous again.
Now Miss Daisy earlier in the thread drives so slow his Elite suspension doesn't need more than an inch of travel, as he never induces any body roll, therefor the suspension doesn't move and the camber doesn't deflect, so the tyres don't wear the edges as much.
I've driven other members cars with Falkens fitted and the owner is quite happy with them, yet I can feel feedback thought the steering wheel that's tell tale of Falkens, that simply isn't present on other tyres.
As to why Wim/Blackboots recomend them? Any tyre shop will sell you any tyre that will fit. They don't care what you buy, that's your choice, and once they go on the rim, they are yours, your stuck with them, tuff luck.
To be fair Falkens do sell. Good midrange tyre etc. ...on Omega they are cheap basically. No grip, no stability, poor wear, no stability, tram lining, no directional control, and in case I didn't make the point clearly enough, no directional stability. At all!
Although they are exceptionally quiet. Vey very quiet indeed.
Bit don't worry, I recomended them on here too once. As I fell into the trap of forming an opinion of a tyre as new. Rather than over the entire tyres life. ;)
If fitted on the rear with a steady driver, you might not notice. But I see you have an Elite, so I guess it won't be long.
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It's to do with the construction, as Tunnie says they are exceptionally quiet, which means a soft sidewall, and the way they wear, and the number of corrections needed to keep the car straight as they wear. And yes it does depend how you drive, due to the way McPherson strut suspension adjusts the camber to body roll.
They tram line from new, as a set of 4, if you only have them on one axle you'll half the effect.
They have a soft construction.
Add in soft Elite suspension. And hence camber deflection.
A progressive driving style in the corners. That makes the camber deflect.
...and after about 1/4 of the tread has gone you'll start to notice the car wandering around. Difficult to keep straight and a disconnected feel at the steering wheel.
By about half worn the car becomes impossible to keep in lane on uneven B roads above 40mph.
Proof..? Fit wheels with totally worn out Dunlops car drives straight as a die. Refit Falken shod wheels car becomes dangerous again.
Now Miss Daisy earlier in the thread drives so slow his Elite suspension doesn't need more than an inch of travel, as he never induces any body roll, therefor the suspension doesn't move and the camber doesn't deflect, so the tyres don't wear the edges as much.
I've driven other members cars with Falkens fitted and the owner is quite happy with them, yet I can feel feedback thought the steering wheel that's tell tale of Falkens, that simply isn't present on other tyres.
As to why Wim/Blackboots recomend them? Any tyre shop will sell you any tyre that will fit. They don't care what you buy, that's your choice, and once they go on the rim, they are yours, your stuck with them, tuff luck.
To be fair Falkens do sell. Good midrange tyre etc. ...on Omega they are cheap basically. No grip, no stability, poor wear, no stability, tram lining, no directional control, and in case I didn't make the point clearly enough, no directional stability. At all!
Although they are exceptionally quiet. Vey very quiet indeed.
Bit don't worry, I recomended them on here too once. As I fell into the trap of forming an opinion of a tyre as new. Rather than over the entire tyres life. ;)
If fitted on the rear with a steady driver, you might not notice. But I see you have an Elite, so I guess it won't be long.
Hi Chris,
Thats much appreciated and quite understandable - thanks for that. It was interesting that the Falkens were only about £20 each cheaper from WIM/BB than Dunlops from Tyreshopper. So, I think that when funds permit I'll get a new set of Dunlops.
Changing the subject slightly to MFL Elite suspension. I had a new set of "standard", i.e. non-SL shocks fitted all round (Sachs) and was advised at the time that these were the same for Elite and MV6. I'm using standard springs though. How would this setup work with FL MV6 springs if I were able to get a set? Any ideas?
Thanks again - Rob
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It has to be said that most negative experiences of Falkens have been in 235/45/17. Maybe they are better in 16"?
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It has to be said that most negative experiences of Falkens have been in 235/45/17. Maybe they are better in 16"?
Thats always been my theory, the side wall is smaller on 17's, so has to be a little stronger?
FatherT has Falkens too (again 16's), though nearing end of life, no issues there either.
I've never driven an Omega with Falkens on 17's, I went Nexen's on the Elite as I had to source tyres locally.
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The same shocks for elite, which has Self levelling, and mv6 which has sport suspension and 15mm lower ride height and no SL. This is not possible captain.
Cirtainly though, if it still has elite springs they need to be changed esp at the rear. Mv6 springs are good. But they are expensive new and quite difficult to get hold of used.
Pre/mini face lift mv6 springs are stock. Only the shocks change for mv6.
Only facelift mv6/2.2 sport has lowered sports chassis. With 15mm lower ride height.
So depending on how much you want/can afford/can get hold of fl mv6 Lsc springs, you may find its way easier and cheaper to fit standard springs on the rear and be done with it. But check the seals in those rear shocks, with elite springs they may have blown and be leaking oil. "May"
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It has to be said that most negative experiences of Falkens have been in 235/45/17. Maybe they are better in 16"?
Thats always been my theory, the side wall is smaller on 17's, so has to be a little stronger?
FatherT has Falkens too (again 16's), though nearing end of life, no issues there either.
I've never driven an Omega with Falkens on 17's, I went Nexen's on the Elite as I had to source tyres locally.
what was the wheel size on my old 99 cdx? presume 16" ? it never degraded to the level explained earlier, but that was the car I spent forever trying to change parts to get it to stop tram lining. I never got to the bottom of it. As I sold the car.
...but it was never as bad as on my Face lift Elite with 17's, that was appalling.
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even good quality tires start to tramline at wider sizes... thats no surprise imo..
if it doesnt tramline , drop the pressure a few psi and will tramline.. ;D
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Obviously, but pump Falkens up to stop tramlining and the ride is intolerable.
But then at 38psi with no load, it would be... ;D
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Happy with them when I had them on the 2.2, had 912's and 452's on the rear. Got 35k out of them, silent tyre, no road noise, for normal folk they are fine. It's only fat people with digital throttle pedals who don't like them ;)
TBH, on your 2.2, given the state of the shagged suspension, I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference between plastic tyres and trackday tyres.
But I reckon the profile does make a big difference.
I've driven your 2.2 on its Falkens. Quite hard. Yes, grip isn't their strong point, but they gave impression of some element of stability - although hard to tell, given the suspension issues. I've driven a few Omegas with Falkens on, with 235/45/17 tyres, and they all lack directional stability once the tyres wear in, although chrisgixer's was in a league of its own... ...the only car I've driven less than a mile, got out, and refused to drive again.
And, once again, shows the (lack of) use of tyre reviews.
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Happy with them when I had them on the 2.2, had 912's and 452's on the rear. Got 35k out of them, silent tyre, no road noise, for normal folk they are fine. It's only fat people with digital throttle pedals who don't like them ;)
TBH, on your 2.2, given the state of the shagged suspension, I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference between plastic tyres and trackday tyres.
But I reckon the profile does make a big difference.
I've driven your 2.2 on its Falkens. Quite hard. Yes, grip isn't their strong point, but they gave impression of some element of stability - although hard to tell, given the suspension issues. I've driven a few Omegas with Falkens on, with 235/45/17 tyres, and they all lack directional stability once the tyres wear in, although chrisgixer's was in a league of its own... ...the only car I've driven less than a mile, got out, and refused to drive again.
And, once again, shows the (lack of) use of tyre reviews.
I presume you mean usefulness...? But absolutely.
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Happy with them when I had them on the 2.2, had 912's and 452's on the rear. Got 35k out of them, silent tyre, no road noise, for normal folk they are fine. It's only fat people with digital throttle pedals who don't like them ;)
TBH, on your 2.2, given the state of the shagged suspension, I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference between plastic tyres and trackday tyres.
But I reckon the profile does make a big difference.
I've driven your 2.2 on its Falkens. Quite hard. Yes, grip isn't their strong point, but they gave impression of some element of stability - although hard to tell, given the suspension issues. I've driven a few Omegas with Falkens on, with 235/45/17 tyres, and they all lack directional stability once the tyres wear in, although chrisgixer's was in a league of its own... ...the only car I've driven less than a mile, got out, and refused to drive again.
And, once again, shows the (lack of) use of tyre reviews.
::)
I have always used tyre tests ,which utilizes some kind of measurement (ie not driver view) and never purchased lemon tyres..