Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 17:32:46

Title: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 17:32:46
As some of you already know. I Bought a 3.2 Elite Estate a few months ago, been doing bits & bobs to it to get it how I like it (mechanical & cosmetically).
Took her out for her first good drive earlier & got back about half an hour ago. The ride's excellent, she handles very well with the Avons on dry & wet roads.
The disappointed bit is the power. As you know I've been driving around in a diesel for almost five years & the 3.2 seems a little flat down the lower end, you have to rev it to really get any where. Is this how the V6's are?? I think the auto box is the Achilles Heel.
I can see why the Police had manuals. I strongly suspect the manual box would unleash the power better 8)

I feel a conversion looming ;D ;D

The diesel would keep up with the 3.2 with ease lower down, but obviously would run out of steam up the revs :)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: twiglet on 03 October 2012, 17:48:13
Tricky one this Pete.  Could the problem be that you also drive a Monaro?

Although I agree that the 3.2 auto isn't the quickest thing on the road, I find that mine gets up and goes pretty well.  I've certainly surprised a few GTi's at the traffic light grand prix.  ;)

I also have a 2.2 dti Vectra C manual and, although I've always been impressed with the grunt of the engine, particularly low down in the rev range, it's certainly nowhere near as quick as my 3.2 Omega.

Perhaps your 3.2 does have a problem somewhere...  :-\

Andy (VXL V6) will be the best person to answer this, as he runs both 2.2 dti and 3.2 Omegas.  :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: VXL V6 on 03 October 2012, 17:53:52
The diesel would keep up with the 3.2 with ease lower down, but obviously would run out of steam up the revs :)

You know that and I know that but standby to get flamed by everyone now. DTi's are underated by a lot of V6 owners on here but as you and I own both DTi's and 3.2's we know better....a healthy DTi pulls very well when it's 'on the turbo' and a 3.2 is barely any better in that rev range due to the autobox IMHO.



Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: tigers_gonads on 03 October 2012, 18:01:29
As some of you already know. I Bought a 3.2 Elite Estate a few months ago, been doing bits & bobs to it to get it how I like it (mechanical & cosmetically).
Took her out for her first good drive earlier & got back about half an hour ago. The ride's excellent, she handles very well with the Avons on dry & wet roads.
The disappointed bit is the power. As you know I've been driving around in a diesel for almost five years & the 3.2 seems a little flat down the lower end, you have to rev it to really get any where. Is this how the V6's are?? I think the auto box is the Achilles Heel.
I can see why the Police had manuals. I strongly suspect the manual box would unleash the power better 8)

I feel a conversion looming ;D ;D

The diesel would keep up with the 3.2 with ease lower down, but obviously would run out of steam up the revs :)



Yup  :y

Convert it to manual  :y :y :y
You know it makes sense  :D :D :D

Question .............. are the multi rams working ?

And I suppose driving pretty much anything is going to be slow after the grunt of a monaro





Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 18:08:15
Tricky one this Pete.  Could the problem be that you also drive a Monaro?

Perhaps your 3.2 does have a problem somewhere...  :-\

Andy (VXL V6) will be the best person to answer this, as he runs both 2.2 dti and 3.2 Omegas.  :y

Uhhmm 450 bhp down to 210 bhp (is it) Could be that ;D

I wonder if the 3.2 does have a problem somewhere  :-\  She's been looked after quite well, but I wonder if when they did the cam belt they missaligned gear.

I need another well tuned 3.2 along side to see how she does :y :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 18:09:31
The diesel would keep up with the 3.2 with ease lower down, but obviously would run out of steam up the revs :)

You know that and I know that but standby to get flamed by everyone now. DTi's are underated by a lot of V6 owners on here but as you and I own both DTi's and 3.2's we know better....a healthy DTi pulls very well when it's 'on the turbo' and a 3.2 is barely any better in that rev range due to the autobox IMHO.

That's exactly so Andy :y :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 18:15:33
As some of you already know. I Bought a 3.2 Elite Estate a few months ago, been doing bits & bobs to it to get it how I like it (mechanical & cosmetically).
Took her out for her first good drive earlier & got back about half an hour ago. The ride's excellent, she handles very well with the Avons on dry & wet roads.
The disappointed bit is the power. As you know I've been driving around in a diesel for almost five years & the 3.2 seems a little flat down the lower end, you have to rev it to really get any where. Is this how the V6's are?? I think the auto box is the Achilles Heel.
I can see why the Police had manuals. I strongly suspect the manual box would unleash the power better 8)

I feel a conversion looming ;D ;D

The diesel would keep up with the 3.2 with ease lower down, but obviously would run out of steam up the revs :)



Yup  :y

Convert it to manual  :y :y :y
You know it makes sense  :D :D :D

Question .............. are the multi rams working ?

And I suppose driving pretty much anything is going to be slow after the grunt of a monaro

I've not checked the rams. Good point :y :y I'll have a play tomoz :)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: VXL V6 on 03 October 2012, 18:19:57
The diesel would keep up with the 3.2 with ease lower down, but obviously would run out of steam up the revs :)

You know that and I know that but standby to get flamed by everyone now. DTi's are underated by a lot of V6 owners on here but as you and I own both DTi's and 3.2's we know better....a healthy DTi pulls very well when it's 'on the turbo' and a 3.2 is barely any better in that rev range due to the autobox IMHO.

That's exactly so Andy :y :y

I think the difference is that if you need to get a DTi up to speed quickly you obviously use each gear purely in the turbo rev range and keep the thing spinning! In an Auto the only option you have is to keep your foot flat to the floor so the kickdown switch is engaged and by the time the autbox has worked out what gear to select it seems a lot of time has passed...!

Don't get me wrong, I love the silky smoothness of my 3.2 and it's the most relaxing, stress free car to drive that I have ever owned. Looking at the power delivery I guess the V6 is almost a straight line throught the revs whereas the DTi has a flat spot either side of the turbo activation.

Thing is, I rate them both so i'll be keeping both for now, Diesel for the work commute and V6 for the weekends!

Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 03 October 2012, 18:25:20
Tricky one this Pete.  Could the problem be that you also drive a Monaro?

Perhaps your 3.2 does have a problem somewhere...  :-\

Andy (VXL V6) will be the best person to answer this, as he runs both 2.2 dti and 3.2 Omegas.  :y

Uhhmm 450 bhp down to 210 bhp / 2=105 with auto  (is it) Could be that ;D

I wonder if the 3.2 does have a problem somewhere  :-\  She's been looked after quite well, but I wonder if when they did the cam belt they missaligned gear.

I need another well tuned 3.2 along side to see how she does :y :y

corrected ;D :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Elite Pete on 03 October 2012, 18:27:33
The diesel would keep up with the 3.2 with ease lower down, but obviously would run out of steam up the revs :)

You know that and I know that but standby to get flamed by everyone now. DTi's are underated by a lot of V6 owners on here but as you and I own both DTi's and 3.2's we know better....a healthy DTi pulls very well when it's 'on the turbo' and a 3.2 is barely any better in that rev range due to the autobox IMHO.

I couldn't agree more :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 18:27:58
Andy.
You really need to de-cat & remove a muffler from your's. This allows the gases to flow & the flat spot that you speak of in the higher revs almost goes :y
Mines pulls right up to high revs with ease :y :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: twiglet on 03 October 2012, 18:36:46
You certainly won't get slated by me Andy, I think the dti is a fantastic engine!  I think you have hit the nail on the head though, the dti pulls like a train in the turbo band.  Pete has had his dti for 5 years, and keeping the engine in the powerband will be second nature to him.  And as you say, it does always feel like you are waiting for the autobox to catch up when you decide to plant the throttle.  Having said that, I still think the autobox is the right thing to have in a 3.2 elite.  It just makes the whole driving experience so effortless and smooth.

I can't wait to get my own dti estate sorted, so that I too will have the dti for work, and the 3.2 for weekends.  Happy days.  :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 03 October 2012, 18:52:36
Not overly impressed myself with how the 3.2 performs. I have driven from stand still to a certain place which with the 3.2 I got just under 95 mph. With my 2.6 the exact same run again from stand still to the same place 85 mph.
Be interesting to see what I can do when I have finished my new engine :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: OmegaAnglesey on 03 October 2012, 19:14:28
I'd have thought the 2.2 petrol would be faster overall over the dti 2.2 and the 3.2 most certainly  :-\
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: TheBoy on 03 October 2012, 19:28:47
If you excuse the harshness and noise of the DTi, its not bad. It has an advanatge that its manual.  I still think the TD is a better engine, but many are auto, and that really is an awful combo.

If you get a change to drive a 3.2 manual, do so, its a hoot, esp if it has a 4.22 LSD

I still maintain the 3.0l is a more responsive, willing engine than the 3.2l
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 19:46:02
I'd have thought the 2.2 petrol would be faster overall over the dti 2.2 and the 3.2 most certainly  :-\

Drive over & I'll show you some black smoke ;D :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Vamps on 03 October 2012, 21:01:14
I'd have thought the 2.2 petrol would be faster overall over the dti 2.2 and the 3.2 most certainly  :-\

Drive over & I'll show you some black smoke ;D :y

You must drive an MX5 then, or be H21.............. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: VXL V6 on 03 October 2012, 21:16:18
Andy.
You really need to de-cat & remove a muffler from your's. This allows the gases to flow & the flat spot that you speak of in the higher revs almost goes :y
Mines pulls right up to high revs with ease :y :y

Already De-cat'd mine and Mrs VXL's estate  :y it does free it up, motorway cruising speeds are effortless  :)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 03 October 2012, 21:18:36
Have a slight different way of doing it next time Andy :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: VXL V6 on 03 October 2012, 21:21:31
I still think the autobox is the right thing to have in a 3.2 elite.  It just makes the whole driving experience so effortless and smooth.

Totally agree  :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: VXL V6 on 03 October 2012, 21:22:06
Have a slight different way of doing it next time Andy :y

I've run out of DTi's to de-cat now!  ;D

Top job you did on our's  :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 21:27:38
Have a slight different way of doing it next time Andy :y

I've run out of DTi's to de-cat now!  ;D

Top job you did on our's  :y

Oi. Has he pinched my job >:( >:(


I never did find any pipe :-[ ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 03 October 2012, 21:29:20
Have a slight different way of doing it next time Andy :y

I've run out of DTi's to de-cat now!  ;D

Top job you did on our's  :y

Oi. Has he pinched my job >:( >:(


I never did find any pipe :-[ ;D ;D

Catch up Pete it was done months and months ago.. :-*
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 03 October 2012, 21:33:31
Have a slight different way of doing it next time Andy :y

I've run out of DTi's to de-cat now!  ;D

Top job you did on our's  :y

Oi. Has he pinched my job >:( >:(


I never did find any pipe :-[ ;D ;D

Catch up Pete it was done months and months ago.. :-*

As it happens. I offered to de-cat Andy's DTi along time ago :P :P
I just didn't & couldn't find any pipe :(

Though I'm sure you did a fine job :y :y As always :)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: feeutfo on 04 October 2012, 00:58:58
I think the 3.2 is over geared personally. I wasn't sure there was much difference when the 4.2 went in. But having fitted a 3.9 lsd, having been told it was a 4.2 LSD I certainly noticed the loss of oomph.

Should be rectified soon ish though.

Multi rams working I take it...?
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Jabe on 04 October 2012, 09:25:03
Already De-cat'd mine and Mrs VXL's estate  :y it does free it up, motorway cruising speeds are effortless  :)

How do you pass M.O.T's?  :-X
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Elite Pete on 04 October 2012, 09:35:43
Already De-cat'd mine and Mrs VXL's estate  :y it does free it up, motorway cruising speeds are effortless  :)

How do you pass M.O.T's?  :-X

I would say the cats have had the innards removed plus IIRC its only a visual smoke test on the older diesels  ;)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Elite Pete on 04 October 2012, 09:39:25
If I had the chance I would swap my desmond diesel for my 2.5 diesel in a flash but saying that the desmond is nearly as good as the 6 pot BMW diesel
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Jabe on 04 October 2012, 12:47:04
Oh yeah :)

So gutting out a V6 won't do it any good? Has anyone tried passing an emissions test with a de-cated V6?
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Jabe on 04 October 2012, 12:58:36
On paper the 2.2 engines aren't to shabby. 206ft torque @ only 1600rpm which is almost identical to the torque from a 3.0 V6 @ half the power band. However with only 120bhp its not that attractive either.

On the flip side with a good remap the 2.2 would reach 145bhp / 250ft which will definitely give the V6's a run for their money then :)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 October 2012, 13:32:16
On paper the 2.2 engines aren't to shabby. 206ft torque @ only 1600rpm which is almost identical to the torque from a 3.0 V6 @ half the power band. However with only 120bhp its not that attractive either.

On the flip side with a good remap the 2.2 would reach 145bhp / 250ft which will definitely give the V6's a run for their money then :)

I wouldn't bet on that.  ;)

Torque, especially if it peaks low, can make a car feel lively, but it's power that ultimately determines its' performance.
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 October 2012, 13:43:03
And, as our good ol' American cousins are always quick to point out, there ain't no replacement for displacement  :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: twiglet on 04 October 2012, 13:44:27
And, as our good ol' American cousins are always quick to point out, there ain't no replacement for displacement  :y

My wifes says that too!  :D ;D
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Jabe on 04 October 2012, 13:52:48
And, as our good ol' American cousins are always quick to point out, there ain't no replacement for displacement  :y

VW's twincharged systems think otherwise.  :-X  :P
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: waspy on 04 October 2012, 15:02:31
Already De-cat'd mine and Mrs VXL's estate  :y it does free it up, motorway cruising speeds are effortless  :)

How do you pass M.O.T's?  :-X

I would say the cats have had the innards removed plus IIRC its only a visual smoke test on the older diesels  ;)

Nope. Completely removed & weighed in ;D Been like it for 4 years & no problems at MOT time. Just not needed :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: 05omegav6 on 04 October 2012, 15:18:29
And, as our good ol' American cousins are always quick to point out, there ain't no replacement for displacement  :y

VW's twincharged systems think otherwise.  :-X  :P

Hmmm, I know if I take a pish 1.4 engine than can just about stir soup, and is really rev happy and gutless, stick a king great turbo on it with shedloads of lag, then, I can add a supercharger so that no one notices just how laggy the turbo is. Then if noone is looking, I can bolt it into a Pishat and claim that it is environmentally friendly to fit an engine that only works above 4k rpm and that is sooo overly complicated that if, and when, it breaks it will be cheaper to buy another car >:(

Rant over, if you can't see through the VW corporate boglox then you probably deserve to drive one ::) :-X
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Jabe on 04 October 2012, 15:45:19
Rant over, if you can't see through the VW corporate boglox then you probably deserve to drive one ::) :-X

but... but... but...  :-[
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 October 2012, 16:01:42
And, as our good ol' American cousins are always quick to point out, there ain't no replacement for displacement  :y

VW's twincharged systems think otherwise.  :-X  :P

Hmmm, I know if I take a pish 1.4 engine than can just about stir soup, and is really rev happy and gutless, stick a king great turbo on it with shedloads of lag, then, I can add a supercharger so that no one notices just how laggy the turbo is. Then if noone is looking, I can bolt it into a Pishat and claim that it is environmentally friendly to fit an engine that only works above 4k rpm and that is sooo overly complicated that if, and when, it breaks it will be cheaper to buy another car >:(

Rant over, if you can't see through the VW corporate boglox then you probably deserve to drive one ::) :-X

Shhh! They'll be ideal kit car donor engines when the rep's built in manual "car train" system (I can drive 1" from the next car while checking my email...) goes wrong. :y

Small capacity, so cheap road tax, small, light and 170 BHP.
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: VXL V6 on 04 October 2012, 17:54:51
Already De-cat'd mine and Mrs VXL's estate  :y it does free it up, motorway cruising speeds are effortless  :)

How do you pass M.O.T's?  :-X

I would say the cats have had the innards removed plus IIRC its only a visual smoke test on the older diesels  ;)

Correct, that way, if the MOT regulations ever change and require the Cat to be physically present it will pass...    ;)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Jabe on 04 October 2012, 21:12:28
Has anyone here gutted and passed on a V6? Just curious.  ;)

What about noise levels? Any significant changes?
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Vamps on 04 October 2012, 23:11:00
On paper the 2.2 engines aren't to shabby. 206ft torque @ only 1600rpm which is almost identical to the torque from a 3.0 V6 @ half the power band. However with only 120bhp its not that attractive either.

On the flip side with a good remap the 2.2 would reach 145bhp / 250ft which will definitely give the V6's a run for their money then :)

2.2 is 144BHP   151.2 lbs/ft torque............not sure where you get your figures from...... ::) :-\ :-\

We have had, 2.0L manual and auto, 2.2L and 2.6L.......2.0L ok, in auto a bit sluggish, 2.2L ok in auto neither can compare to the 2.6L auto which fly's compared to the others..... :y
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: aaronjb on 04 October 2012, 23:12:34
On paper the 2.2 engines aren't to shabby. 206ft torque @ only 1600rpm which is almost identical to the torque from a 3.0 V6 @ half the power band. However with only 120bhp its not that attractive either.

On the flip side with a good remap the 2.2 would reach 145bhp / 250ft which will definitely give the V6's a run for their money then :)

2.2 is 144BHP   151.2 lbs/ft torque............not sure where you get your figures from...... ::) :-\ :-\

We have had, 2.0L manual and auto, 2.2L and 2.6L.......2.0L ok, in auto a bit sluggish, 2.2L ok in auto neither can compare to the 2.6L auto which fly's compared to the others..... :y

The figures are for the diseasel, Vamps, which had 120hp ;)
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Vamps on 04 October 2012, 23:15:41
On paper the 2.2 engines aren't to shabby. 206ft torque @ only 1600rpm which is almost identical to the torque from a 3.0 V6 @ half the power band. However with only 120bhp its not that attractive either.

On the flip side with a good remap the 2.2 would reach 145bhp / 250ft which will definitely give the V6's a run for their money then :)

2.2 is 144BHP   151.2 lbs/ft torque............not sure where you get your figures from...... ::) :-\ :-\

We have had, 2.0L manual and auto, 2.2L and 2.6L.......2.0L ok, in auto a bit sluggish, 2.2L ok in auto neither can compare to the 2.6L auto which fly's compared to the others..... :y

The figures are for the diseasel, Vamps, which had 120hp ;)

Yes, I had just realised that as I spotted a DTI Estate on Autotrader.... ::) ::) :-[
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: henryd on 04 October 2012, 23:18:03
Has anyone here gutted and passed on a V6? Just curious.  ;)

What about noise levels? Any significant changes?

Without cats on a v6 an emissions pass aint happening :-\
Title: Re: Bit Disappointed
Post by: Jabe on 04 October 2012, 23:53:13
Without cats on a v6 an emissions pass aint happening :-\

Hehe  8)

Any significant changes of noise with a decat? Presuming all silencers are kept in place.