Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Clarkey on 06 November 2012, 13:59:28
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Have a 01 3.2 with climate control. It's that time of year again when inside windows are very difficult to clear. A/C compressor was leaking gas which made the problem worse. I replaced it with one from the scrappy but that was almost as bad as the one I took off. Don't think there is much point trying another s/hand one so was wondering is there a reconditioned A/C compressor available that comes recommended?
Cheers,
James.
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I thought windows misting up was due to the carbon/pollen filter needing to be changed
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I thought windows misting up was due to the carbon/pollen filter needing to be changed
Doesn`t help having no A/C
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Pollen filter is new and bulkhead drain is clear.
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Re-con compressors are anything between £150-250
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I thought windows misting up was due to the carbon/pollen filter needing to be changed
Doesn`t help having no A/C
This time of year, the AC will switch off, which is usually the first sign that its chilly out. Normally quickly followed by CID warning.
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Keep the vents in OSR cubby hole free to reduce misting
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I find I need the AC on to keep the windows clear this time of year. Climate doesn't shift enough air to do it unless I hike up the fan speed, and direct the air to the screen manually. A pain, because it blows a gale through the car all summer, and I have to manually turn it down. >:(
Oh for a 3 knob manual setup.
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wiping the inside of the glass with a detergent solution will help noticeably, one drop of washing up liquid on a wet cloth.
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air con will provide dry air but the drawback with using it a lot (apart for the 5%-10% increase in fuel consumption) is that after you switch it off you will get more damp air coming through, damper than had the air con never been on, as the air flows over the wet air con elements.
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Rarely use the Aircon, except giving it a run here and there, good old hot air and partially open windows works for me.
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Rarely use the Aircon, except giving it a run here and there, good old hot air and partially open windows works for me.
I almost always run the climate in 'AUTO' ;) ;) It's there, so I use it. :y
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It's not clear to me if 'auto' mode runs the ac compressor when it is colder outside than you want the inside to be. The manual implies it does. Ignoring demisiting for the moment common sense would say it switches off the air con when you have the heater on but I suspect it just runs both and uses the heater to overcome the air con. The reason for this would be to provide dry warm air rather than just warm air at ambient humidity.
If I'm right the big drawback is a constant 5%-10% extra on your fuel bill. Remember these cars were designed when petrol was 40p/litre. Does anyone know the definitive answer to this? Easy to test I suppose - set the climate control set to 'auto' and temperature to 'hi' and hold your hand on the air con ally (not the EGR pipes!) in the engine bay.
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It's not clear to me if 'auto' mode runs the ac compressor when it is colder outside than you want the inside to be. The manual implies it does. Ignoring demisiting for the moment common sense would say it switches off the air con when you have the heater on but I suspect it just runs both and uses the heater to overcome the air con. The reason for this would be to provide dry warm air rather than just warm air at ambient humidity.
If I'm right the big drawback is a constant 5%-10% extra on your fuel bill. Remember these cars were designed when petrol was 40p/litre. Does anyone know the definitive answer to this? Easy to test I suppose - set the climate control set to 'auto' and temperature to 'hi' and hold your hand on the air con ally (not the EGR pipes!) in the engine bay.
Airconditioned air doesn't need to be cold, it can be warm too. As you say, you get warm dry air. As above, the compressor cuts out when ambient is cold to stop condensate from freezing.
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I don't know where you get 5-10% as a fuel burn for using aircon ... I believe the compressor uses between 3 & 5 HP under max load .. as my engine is capable of 217 HP, if I''m driving at 1/2 throttle thats 108 HP then 3 - 5 HP of that is certainly NOT 5-10%.
Another way of looking at it is, after the aircon has been running for a while to settle down, drive at a constant throttle with the aircon ON and look at the instant fuel consumption, turn the aircon OFF and see by how much it changes .... very little IME.
Some years back a study was published that expounded the theory that driving with the windows open uses more fuel than the air con due to the increased drag, but I cannot prove that one way or the other.
All I know is ... air con to auto all the time .. nice and comfortable... :)
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It's not clear to me if 'auto' mode runs the ac compressor when it is colder outside than you want the inside to be.
Auto (without ECO mode) runs the air con 100% of the time, IME. When the cabin requires heating it still gives the advantage of drier air.
Bear in mind that the air con has an expansion valve that controls refrigerant flow such that the air con works less hard when the incoming air is already cold, so the compressor is doing much less work when it's cold, so less fuel consumption. IME the extra fuel consumption is not noticeable anyway. I've never found a weather condition in which my air con hasn't run. I can be scraping the frost off it in the morning but I can still hear the front fans running, which means air con is engaged!
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Rarely use the Aircon, except giving it a run here and there, good old hot air and partially open windows works for me.
I almost always run the climate in 'AUTO' ;) ;) It's there, so I use it. :y
I can't see any reason not to, only occasionally and briefly I have redirected airflow to screen but still on auto, set the temperature and leave it at that....... :y :y
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Airconditioned air doesn't need to be cold, it can be warm too. As you say, you get warm dry air. As above, the compressor cuts out when ambient is cold to stop condensate from freezing.
As I understand it from the manual that only happens at 5C or below. So I'm guessing the compressor is running all the time above that even if you have the heater on.
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I don't know where you get 5-10% as a fuel burn for using aircon
I did a simple test, here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=108869.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=108869.0)
I believe the compressor uses between 3 & 5 HP under max load .. as my engine is capable of 217 HP, if I''m driving at 1/2 throttle thats 108 HP then 3 - 5 HP of that is certainly NOT 5-10%.
Sounds nice but I'm not sure of the logic. Peak power on mine (V6 2.6) is 177hp at 6000 rpm. The power curve is not linear and I normally drive at 2000 rpm so I guess I use about 50 hp with my light foot. So that's 10%, assuming the compressor is 5HP (is it?)
Another way of looking at it is, after the aircon has been running for a while to settle down, drive at a constant throttle with the aircon ON and look at the instant fuel consumption, turn the aircon OFF and see by how much it changes ....
That's almost exactly what I did http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=108869.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=108869.0)
Some years back a study was published that expounded the theory that driving with the windows open uses more fuel than the air con due to the increased drag, but I cannot prove that one way or the other.
Yes agree with you on that, Mythbusters did this test too, driving at speed with the windows open is significantly bad for fuel consumption. Worse than having the air con on when above 50 mph I think they established. I would definitely use air con if I'm hot (or misted up), that's what its for. I wouldn't have it on all the time though certainly not all winter.
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Bear in mind that the air con has an expansion valve that controls refrigerant flow such that the air con works less hard when the incoming air is already cold, so the compressor is doing much less work when it's cold, so less fuel consumption.
Thats a good point, in theory then the compressor could just be freewheeling a lot of the time. But for that wouldn't the temperature have to be so low that the refrigerant didn't evapourate at all? Anything above that the compressor is still having to do some compression (but I suppose not as much?). All I can find in the manuals is that "The operation of the system is controlled by an electronic control unit, which controls the electric cooling fan and the compressor"
Haynes says "On models with Electronic Climate control, the cabin temperature is regulated automatically by a system of air valves controlled by servo motors." This make me think the cold air is just dumped if the air con and heater are on (auto mode) , rather than the compressor being relieved by refrigerent valves.
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Open windows uses way more fuel than air con,I tried it. :y
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I've found that if the pollen filter gets damp, it can cause misting up.
Before I fit a new pollen filter, I always put it in the airing cupboard overnight.
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What is this aircon you all speak of?
Is it what my car should have if I ever got around to finding out where all the refrigerant escapes to? ;D
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What is this aircon you all speak of?
Is it what my car should have if I ever got around to finding out where all the refrigerant escapes to? ;D
Yep. That would be it. My problem is that the windows seem to mist up when the heater fan kicks in. Have to turn heat and fan to max to stop windscreen misting completely. Its seems to be blowing out damp air even though the pollen filter is dry and I am not loosing coolant. Aircon compressor working at half its capacity is only reason I can think it's doing this.
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FWIW mine also steams up something chronic in wet weather unless you have the demist selected more or less full time.. and I can't find any pooling water (pollen filter/scuttle drain, sunroof drains etc). I put it down to 'one of those things' - at least until such time as I fix the a/c..
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What is this aircon you all speak of?
Is it what my car should have if I ever got around to finding out where all the refrigerant escapes to? ;D
+1 ::)
It must be that thing with a hole in it that went to the skip a year ago ;D
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If you're having real problems with steaming up, it might be worth investigating if the recirculation flap is working OK. :y
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Fitted a new compressor from these guys http://www.compressortech.com/index.html
No more misting up. Windows now stay clear with minimal fan speed.
Thanks for input. :y
James.
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I don't know where you get 5-10% as a fuel burn for using aircon ... I believe the compressor uses between 3 & 5 HP under max load .. as my engine is capable of 217 HP, if I''m driving at 1/2 throttle thats 108 HP then 3 - 5 HP of that is certainly NOT 5-10%.
Another way of looking at it is, after the aircon has been running for a while to settle down, drive at a constant throttle with the aircon ON and look at the instant fuel consumption, turn the aircon OFF and see by how much it changes .... very little IME.
Some years back a study was published that expounded the theory that driving with the windows open uses more fuel than the air con due to the increased drag, but I cannot prove that one way or the other.
All I know is ... air con to auto all the time .. nice and comfortable... :)
yes.. I remember it.. :y
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By that thing with a hole in it do you mean the plug at the base of the pollen filter area. I check my car for blockages here on a regular basis but yesterday opened up to put new pollen filter in and found water half way up the container. There was very little debris in the outlet and a little poke soon emptied the water. I have thought before about removing the plug and throwing it away,is there a problem in doing this.
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I meant i removed my condenser form the front of the car "rad with hole in it" ;) cant see why removing the plug your on about will do any harm :-\
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I've found that if the pollen filter gets damp, it can cause misting up.
Before I fit a new pollen filter, I always put it in the airing cupboard overnight.
Put my old one in the microwave, would have been OK for a few seconds but I got distracted. They catch light after about a minute, well the carbon ones do.
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I've been contemplating using a dehumidifier to remove the moisture to give my climate control a fighting chance as mine is always fogged up in the morning. :(
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The air con is a dehumidifier, the moisture condenses on the cooling elements before it gets to the cabin and provides dry air. With climate control the demist button puts the air con and heater on together.
If you've already cleared the drain below the pollen filter and removed any leaves etc from the air intakes and tried the detergent on the inside of the glass, check your windscreen seals and the sunroof, maybe you have a leak.
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Although I may be pointing out the obvious, you don't carry anything wet in your car, do you? My wife was complaining about the rear window in her hatchback being badly fogged up and taking ages to clear with the rear demister turned on. It turned out she was carrying her wet umbrella in the back. Once that was removed, the problem was gone.
Even a pair of wet gloves left in a door pocket can cause your windows to steam up dramatically.
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Thats a good point, but not really, moisture probably caused by passengers breathing for which I have no solution!
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Thats a good point, but not really, moisture probably caused by passengers breathing for which I have no solution!
Well if you can stop the passengers sleeping in the car overnight it will probably stop the windows being fogged up in the morning. :)
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Thats a good point, but not really, moisture probably caused by passengers breathing for which I have no solution!
Well if you can stop the passengers sleeping in the car overnight it will probably stop the windows being fogged up in the morning. :)
tehee...! :y
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The air con is a dehumidifier, the moisture condenses on the cooling elements before it gets to the cabin and provides dry air. With climate control the demist button puts the air con and heater on together.
If you've already cleared the drain below the pollen filter and removed any leaves etc from the air intakes and tried the detergent on the inside of the glass, check your windscreen seals and the sunroof, maybe you have a leak.
Please excuse my ignorance, but can I assume that the moist air that is already in the cabin is force extracted and replaced by the drier air from the air con?
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The air con is a dehumidifier, the moisture condenses on the cooling elements before it gets to the cabin and provides dry air. With climate control the demist button puts the air con and heater on together.
If you've already cleared the drain below the pollen filter and removed any leaves etc from the air intakes and tried the detergent on the inside of the glass, check your windscreen seals and the sunroof, maybe you have a leak.
Please excuse my ignorance, but can I assume that the moist air that is already in the cabin is force extracted and replaced by the drier air from the air con?
Not force extracted as such, but is vented out in the rear cubbyhole in the boot... so make sure that cubbyhole is not full of rags etc etc that prevent the flow of air.
A quick way of sussing if this MIGHT be adding to the problem is to crack a rear window about 1/4" open .. if the car de-mists very quickly then EITHER fresh air is not getting in (pollen filter ? Recirculating selected/stuck ?) or stale air is not being vented.
:)
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The air con is a dehumidifier, the moisture condenses on the cooling elements before it gets to the cabin and provides dry air. With climate control the demist button puts the air con and heater on together.
If you've already cleared the drain below the pollen filter and removed any leaves etc from the air intakes and tried the detergent on the inside of the glass, check your windscreen seals and the sunroof, maybe you have a leak.
Please excuse my ignorance, but can I assume that the moist air that is already in the cabin is force extracted and replaced by the drier air from the air con?
Not force extracted as such, but is vented out in the rear cubbyhole in the boot... so make sure that cubbyhole is not full of rags etc etc that prevent the flow of air.
A quick way of sussing if this MIGHT be adding to the problem is to crack a rear window about 1/4" open .. if the car de-mists very quickly then EITHER fresh air is not getting in (pollen filter ? Recirculating selected/stuck ?) or stale air is not being vented.
:)
Not quite sure where this is . Any pictures of said vent ? Never seen or noticed this :-\
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The air con is a dehumidifier, the moisture condenses on the cooling elements before it gets to the cabin and provides dry air. With climate control the demist button puts the air con and heater on together.
If you've already cleared the drain below the pollen filter and removed any leaves etc from the air intakes and tried the detergent on the inside of the glass, check your windscreen seals and the sunroof, maybe you have a leak.
Please excuse my ignorance, but can I assume that the moist air that is already in the cabin is force extracted and replaced by the drier air from the air con?
Not force extracted as such, but is vented out in the rear cubbyhole in the boot... so make sure that cubbyhole is not full of rags etc etc that prevent the flow of air.
A quick way of sussing if this MIGHT be adding to the problem is to crack a rear window about 1/4" open .. if the car de-mists very quickly then EITHER fresh air is not getting in (pollen filter ? Recirculating selected/stuck ?) or stale air is not being vented.
:)
Not quite sure where this is . Any pictures of said vent ? Never seen or noticed this :-\
In a saloon , back right corner of the boot, by the light cluster, is a small cubby hole ..open that fully, at the bottom are the external vents. The stale air comes from the cabin down into that area, then exits the car. If that area is blocked with rags/gloves whatever and the "top section" that goes towards the rear seats, or the lower vents are blocked .. no air flow - misting up .. :)
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Just to add to this, running three Omega's - two saloons and one estate, I have found that the estate suffers more than the saloons with this problem, which seems to tie in with the posts on this thread if everyone is talking about the car on thier profile!
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The air con is a dehumidifier, the moisture condenses on the cooling elements before it gets to the cabin and provides dry air. With climate control the demist button puts the air con and heater on together.
If you've already cleared the drain below the pollen filter and removed any leaves etc from the air intakes and tried the detergent on the inside of the glass, check your windscreen seals and the sunroof, maybe you have a leak.
Please excuse my ignorance, but can I assume that the moist air that is already in the cabin is force extracted and replaced by the drier air from the air con?
Not force extracted as such, but is vented out in the rear cubbyhole in the boot... so make sure that cubbyhole is not full of rags etc etc that prevent the flow of air.
A quick way of sussing if this MIGHT be adding to the problem is to crack a rear window about 1/4" open .. if the car de-mists very quickly then EITHER fresh air is not getting in (pollen filter ? Recirculating selected/stuck ?) or stale air is not being vented.
:)
Not quite sure where this is . Any pictures of said vent ? Never seen or noticed this :-\
In a saloon , back right corner of the boot, by the light cluster, is a small cubby hole ..open that fully, at the bottom are the external vents. The stale air comes from the cabin down into that area, then exits the car. If that area is blocked with rags/gloves whatever and the "top section" that goes towards the rear seats, or the lower vents are blocked .. no air flow - misting up .. :)
:y I never noticed that , will check tomorrow .
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Just to add to this, running three Omega's - two saloons and one estate, I have found that the estate suffers more than the saloons with this problem, which seems to tie in with the posts on this thread if everyone is talking about the car on thier profile!
Must admit, I think my estate is worse for it than the saloon was :-\ :-\
Mind you... I know all my refrigerant will now be floating around in space and really must replace the condenser :-X ::)
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My estate is fine, hers mists...
Ive some playing to do.
The estate vents are behind the jack under the floor :y
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Have had no problems with either of mine, but sorry to ask & may sound daft but where are the pollen filters situated as i may as well change them anyway.
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Have had no problems with either of mine, but sorry to ask & may sound daft but where are the pollen filters situated as i may as well change them anyway.
Pollen filter in the scuttle, open bonnet, as you look at the engine bay, back right, lift the long rubber strip up and the little panel opens, pollen filter is in there, two little clips (usually broken :( ) hold it towards the windscreen. Whilst in there shine a torch down and make sure the drain is clear. If not, length of wire and a hosepipe to flush it all out as per the guide .. :)
HTH
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Thanks will do both.