Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 11:56:20

Title: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 11:56:20
Its been turning for a long time now, tried to tighten it but not tightening either. If its broken how can I remove it?  :-\
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: doz on 25 November 2012, 12:00:08
Can you get a fine screwdriver behind the head and apply a little pressure while you try to undo?
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 25 November 2012, 12:01:04
Its been turning for a long time now, tried to tighten it but not tightening either. If its broken how can I remove it?  :-\

Others on here have experienced such problems and will no doubt soon advise.

I must say that when a nut is stuck in such a way I would be tempted to think of drilling it out very very carefully........heat of drill.......oil...........fire!!  But then after doing so you could remove and refit a new plug. ;)

Others as I have said will no doubt give further / better advice!!
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 12:12:39
Doz, haven't got a screwdriver on me and my house is a bit far from where I am and am parked somewhere I can't leave my car unattended. Although doesn't look like I will be able to. Nut hasn't come loose at all
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 25 November 2012, 12:16:39
Doz, haven't got a screwdriver on me and my house is a bit far from where I am and am parked somewhere I can't leave my car unattended. Although doesn't look like I will be able to. Nut hasn't come loose at all

In that case I would not do any more as you will probably need a new plug, and I suspect the sump threads are damaged, which will / may require a special fitting that others can advise on. ;)
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: doz on 25 November 2012, 12:20:29
If it's not leaking then best left alone until you can get it some where more suitable.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 12:28:08
Ironically this is the best place to work on the car. What I need is a minion but he has gone out for a couple of hours. But yes, I will leave it as its not leaking.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: TheBoy on 25 November 2012, 13:03:56
Its likely, if the sump plug is turning (ie, you haven't just chewed the torx), that the sump is stripped. You may be lucky, and find its only the plug.

Sump not too bad to change. While its off, clean up the strainer.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 13:58:02
If its only the plug, will the sump still need to come out? Would doz' method remove the nut if the sump is stripped?

Is there a guide to replace the sump?
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: doz on 25 November 2012, 14:02:53
My method will probably get the plug out BUT if the sump threads are knackered then the sump will need to come off at some point.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Agemo on 25 November 2012, 14:09:03
You will need a Heli-coil kit by the looks of it. Be careful if you drive it, keep the revs low & watch your oil pressure. You will more than likely need a new sump plug too.
p.s. Welcome back Lizzie  :y
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 25 November 2012, 14:10:48
How odd... is this just the torx one?

These are a very low torque... 10nm. I seem to remember some months ago yours torqued up fine, with no signs of stripped thread etc... you haven't had any kwik-fit style oil changrs near the car have you?

The good news is, the lower sump pan is a peice of cake to change :y


Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Andy B on 25 November 2012, 14:13:13
You will need a Heli-coil kit by the looks of it. Be careful if you drive it, keep the revs low & watch your oil pressure. You will more than likely need a new sump plug too.

Just put a new sump on it. There's not enough material in the sump to hold a thread insert ........ my own opinion despite others saying otherwise  ::). The sump plug is originally screwed into an ally insert that's swaged into the sump.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 14:20:10
How odd... is this just the torx one?

These are a very low torque... 10nm. I seem to remember some months ago yours torqued up fine, with no signs of stripped thread etc... you haven't had any kwik-fit style oil changrs near the car have you?

The good news is, the lower sump pan is a peice of cake to change :y

James, no one has touched the sump plug since your kind self, but if I'm honest it felt a bit tight. Maybe your torque wrench needs calibrating  ;D 

So its possible that the nut is damaged (easy option) but if its the sump, it would need replacing or helicoiling.

Is there a way of finding out which is it (or would that be doz' method). Either way I will probably need a new plug at least before I start.

Agemo, didnt think it would be a problem to drive, but not so sure now.  :-\
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: TheBoy on 25 November 2012, 14:21:04
You will need a Heli-coil kit by the looks of it. Be careful if you drive it, keep the revs low & watch your oil pressure. You will more than likely need a new sump plug too.

Just put a new sump on it. There's not enough material in the sump to hold a thread insert ........ my own opinion despite others saying otherwise  ::). The sump plug is originally screwed into an ally insert that's swaged into the sump.
Yup, for v6 sump, I agree, replace lower sump
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Andy H on 25 November 2012, 14:38:18
I fitted a new sump plug in mine at the last oil change because the old one was threatening to behave as described.

I was concerned that the thread in the oil pan might be damaged but it looked to me as though the insert was steel and the plug was a softer alloy (with a visibly damaged thread)

The old plug felt 'wrong' as I was unscrewing it (I needed to use a ratchet to turn it). The new one screwed in sweetly by hand and nipped up nicely at the specified torque :)

Chances are that you won't need a new pan but if you don't know the oil change history of your car it gives you another reason to drop the pan and clean the crud out of the oil strainer......
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 25 November 2012, 14:41:19
You will need a Heli-coil kit by the looks of it. Be careful if you drive it, keep the revs low & watch your oil pressure. You will more than likely need a new sump plug too.
p.s. Welcome back Lizzie  :y


Thanks! :y :y
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 25 November 2012, 14:45:26
Hmm, not sure what's happened there, then. I'd certainly never do a sump plug on one of these up "tight" - torque wrench or not... simply 'cos such a low torque is required (due to the rubber O ring not needing much clamping force)

I have had it before when they've been abused in a past life, just let go upon normal doing up / undoing... but whatever the case..

1) if you don't trust it since you've struggled to get it out/in - don't drive it, if you think there's a risk it will dump the oil

2) If you can get it down to me sometime (if it's safe to drive) I'll gladly change the sump FOC if you bring one with you :y
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 15:33:01
Hmm, not sure what's happened there, then. I'd certainly never do a sump plug on one of these up "tight" - torque wrench or not... simply 'cos such a low torque is required (due to the rubber O ring not needing much clamping force)

I have had it before when they've been abused in a past life, just let go upon normal doing up / undoing... but whatever the case..

1) if you don't trust it since you've struggled to get it out/in - don't drive it, if you think there's a risk it will dump the oil

2) If you can get it down to me sometime (if it's safe to drive) I'll gladly change the sump FOC if you bring one with you :y

Oil changes have been done quite frequently but all at VX so may have had a troubled past. James, I know you have done enough oil changes to know how tight these should be. I certainly don't think its your fault in any way. Thanks for the offer, but I dont trust driving it a mile down the road, let alone 100m! But if work brings you closer then may be a possibility. A how to would be be useful though.  :y
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: RobG on 25 November 2012, 16:16:59
Undo the M6 bolts, lever pan off with screwdriver (held with instant gasket), level sensor is bolted to base of pan and wiring runs up towards rear top of pan (rubber bung). When re-fitting use grey sealant (same as oil cooler)
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Andyv6 on 25 November 2012, 17:01:10
Just done mine this weekend since I got the omega it has always spun so been doing oil changes by sucking it out the dipstick tube lol, the plug had been overtightened and stripped the thread at the lower end of the plug just got my 3/8 airgun on it spun it like mad and pushed it to one side, soon came out but replaced the lower pan with one I had lying around with the old style sump plug, will see if the thread in the original can be saved or not tomorrow when I get back to work.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 25 November 2012, 23:34:36
Thanks for the guide Rob. Is the level sensor in the way of the sump coming out, ie. does it need removing before dropping the sump?

I will speak to andyc tomorrow about a new pan/plug. The major concern I have with this job is the 5+ litres of oil making a mess. Is it possible to bash the plug with a screwdriver/hammer and punching a hole in it? Dont want to get my drill covered in oil.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Andy B on 25 November 2012, 23:38:54
Thanks for the guide Rob. Is the level sensor in the way of the sump coming out, ie. does it need removing before dropping the sump?
 .....

It's bolted to the inside of the sump, so yes,it needs disconnecting to completely remove the sump ......... it's obvious when you unbolt the lower sump. Be careful of the wiring, it'll be brittle having spent its life in hot oil, mine broke a soldered connection.
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: Andy B on 25 November 2012, 23:40:15
....
 Is it possible to bash the plug with a screwdriver/hammer and punching a hole in it?  ......

If you use a big enough hammer & suitable punch/chisel .........  ;) ;)
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 26 November 2012, 17:49:33
Bought a new oil pan off andyc today. Quite an expensive oil change  :P. Phoned another VX dealer to see what they would charge for this job - £255 inc. VAT + materials brings it to £360 !
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: henryd on 27 November 2012, 12:20:00
Sorry,I'm a bit late reading this but Sealey do a sump bung repair set for about £50 which has slighly oversize taps and over size bungs,you simply choose the tap which is slightly bigger than what you have and re-tap hole and fit the over size bung supplied :y
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 27 November 2012, 14:59:28
I may be wrong but I don't think that will work because if the ally housing has come apart from the steel, retapping in the broken housing will still cause it to spin
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: henryd on 27 November 2012, 15:10:07
I may be wrong but I don't think that will work because if the ally housing has come apart from the steel, retapping in the broken housing will still cause it to spin

You may well be correct,not tried them on a vauxhall :-[
Title: Re: urgent help - oil sump nut spinning, not coming out
Post by: SMD on 27 November 2012, 15:15:34
I don't understand why VX didn't have the plug screw straight into the steel?