Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: feeutfo on 29 November 2012, 11:38:01
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Some mornings, reguardless of weather, I get the engine temp either hesitate or drop during warm up. Once warm no problem.
This showed itself initially with problems running on gas. Miss fires and fuel trim issues etc.
It's taken me a while to notice the two in conjunction, as I hadn't noticed the temp gauge while the LPG was playing up.
When it does play up, the mo is the same. Initial warm up on petrol no problem. Change to gas no problem. Heater gives heat no problem. 2 muns later temp gauge moves off the bottom of the scale, then the issues start on LPG at about 70 degrees engine temp. Turn back to petrol or it will stall and be grumpy.
Watch the temp gauge hover at 75 then go slowly up to 80. Switch gas on again, stays at 80 for ages, then after that it will heat up to 85 or 90 as normal.
Sometimes it plays up. Sometimes not. But always from cold if it does miss behave. Once warm it's fine all day.
:-\
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Sounds to me like the thermostat is opening early and largely .. so allowing a gurt dollop of cold water to circulate, this cools the evaporator down way too much. Then the system heats up again, albeit slowly which is why it all hovers around 75-80.
Reason it is now showing up is cold temperatures making it worse... when warm it made little difference.
Thermostat should open in "bits" as it "regulates" the temperature ... yours is doing it all at once ??
My guess is you will need a thermostat change to sort it.
:(
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Sounds like a stat change to me, which I also need to do at some point ::) But I'm trying to hold off and replace the A/C Condenser at the same time as I'll need to remove the Rad for that ::)
IIRC the groomer has always said yours (and mine) seem to run a little cool, not that I'd ever admit he was right :-X ::)
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Yes it's always wise to deny the Groomer. ;D
I always thought the temp accross my omegas was fairly constant. Which given their age, was probably true.
98k on mine now. :(
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Sounds to me like the thermostat is opening early and largely .. so allowing a gurt dollop of cold water to circulate, this cools the evaporator down way too much. Then the system heats up again, albeit slowly which is why it all hovers around 75-80.
Reason it is now showing up is cold temperatures making it worse... when warm it made little difference.
Thermostat should open in "bits" as it "regulates" the temperature ... yours is doing it all at once ??
My guess is you will need a thermostat change to sort it.
:(
logical..agreed..
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Yes it's always wise to deny the Groomer. ;D
I always thought the temp accross my omegas was fairly constant. Which given their age, was probably true.
98k on mine now. :(
I'm not far behind... Perhaps 10k at most.
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Entwood has it about right. Your thermosidiot is just starting to open, so all that cold water sitting in the radiator suddenly enters the system, temporarily cooling it down, before it carries on its temperature rise. Sounds like the thermostat's working pretty ok to me.
You need to raise the switch-over-to LPG threshold temperature a little
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TBE has a slightly stick stat I think - cruising up the A43 every morning (slowly, as no "enthusism" until fully warmed up), the temp goes above midpoint, then drops dramatically, before rising and settling just below midpoint.
Stat is 2yrs old.
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Two issues here:
1. The thermostat is at the front of the engine and the temperature sender is at the back. When the thermostat first opens a slug of cold water from the radiator flows into the back of the engine and causes a temporary dip in temperature. Once everything is up to temperature the stat maintains 92degrees at the front of the engine (& the gauge reads 85degrees at the back because of the cooler water from the radiator)
2. The return water from the vapouriser gets dumped into the radiator return pipe at the back of the engine when the vapouriser has finished with it. If the vapouriser is cold & frosty that water could be below freezing (further depressing the temperature on the gauge).
The key problem is insufficient flow through the vapouriser (but that doesn't mean that the thermostat isn't faulty too............)
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Two issues here:
1. The thermostat is at the front of the engine and the temperature sender is at the back. When the thermostat first opens a slug of cold water from the radiator flows into the back of the engine and causes a temporary dip in temperature. Once everything is up to temperature the stat maintains 92degrees at the front of the engine (& the gauge reads 85degrees at the back because of the cooler water from the radiator)
2. The return water from the vapouriser gets dumped into the radiator return pipe at the back of the engine when the vapouriser has finished with it. If the vapouriser is cold & frosty that water could be below freezing (further depressing the temperature on the gauge).
The key problem is insufficient flow through the vapouriser (but that doesn't mean that the thermostat isn't faulty too............)
Slight disagreement from me here .... part deux ... The vapouriser return is being dumped into the system from the minute the engine starts, so will actually slow down the rate of warmup of the engine jacket, it won't depress the temperature, although it may stop it rising ..., as to depress the temp the vapouriser water would have to be added "after" the temp had risen .. which it can't do as it is part of the "water jacket" ....
At least that's how I see it .. :)
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Two issues here:
1. The thermostat is at the front of the engine and the temperature sender is at the back. When the thermostat first opens a slug of cold water from the radiator flows into the back of the engine and causes a temporary dip in temperature. Once everything is up to temperature the stat maintains 92degrees at the front of the engine (& the gauge reads 85degrees at the back because of the cooler water from the radiator)
2. The return water from the vapouriser gets dumped into the radiator return pipe at the back of the engine when the vapouriser has finished with it. If the vapouriser is cold & frosty that water could be below freezing (further depressing the temperature on the gauge).
The key problem is insufficient flow through the vapouriser (but that doesn't mean that the thermostat isn't faulty too............)
Slight disagreement from me here .... part deux ... The vapouriser return is being dumped into the system from the minute the engine starts, so will actually slow down the rate of warmup of the engine jacket, it won't depress the temperature, although it may stop it rising ..., as to depress the temp the vapouriser water would have to be added "after" the temp had risen .. which it can't do as it is part of the "water jacket" ....
At least that's how I see it .. :)
Until you switch to LPG the vapouriser doesn't need any heat. As soon as you start converting liquid to gas there is a big heat demand which causes the drop in temperature.
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Two issues here:
1. The thermostat is at the front of the engine and the temperature sender is at the back. When the thermostat first opens a slug of cold water from the radiator flows into the back of the engine and causes a temporary dip in temperature. Once everything is up to temperature the stat maintains 92degrees at the front of the engine (& the gauge reads 85degrees at the back because of the cooler water from the radiator)
2. The return water from the vapouriser gets dumped into the radiator return pipe at the back of the engine when the vapouriser has finished with it. If the vapouriser is cold & frosty that water could be below freezing (further depressing the temperature on the gauge).
The key problem is insufficient flow through the vapouriser (but that doesn't mean that the thermostat isn't faulty too............)
Slight disagreement from me here .... part deux ... The vapouriser return is being dumped into the system from the minute the engine starts, so will actually slow down the rate of warmup of the engine jacket, it won't depress the temperature, although it may stop it rising ..., as to depress the temp the vapouriser water would have to be added "after" the temp had risen .. which it can't do as it is part of the "water jacket" ....
At least that's how I see it .. :)
Until you switch to LPG the vapouriser doesn't need any heat. As soon as you start converting liquid to gas there is a big heat demand which causes the drop in temperature.
ahh different to mine then ... mine starts to take heat from the jacket as soon as the engine starts, then once sufficient heat has been taken to convert the LPG to gas, and the gas pressure rises to whatever the little gizmo is set at, then it auto switches and runs on gas. :)
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Two issues here:
1. The thermostat is at the front of the engine and the temperature sender is at the back. When the thermostat first opens a slug of cold water from the radiator flows into the back of the engine and causes a temporary dip in temperature. Once everything is up to temperature the stat maintains 92degrees at the front of the engine (& the gauge reads 85degrees at the back because of the cooler water from the radiator)
2. The return water from the vapouriser gets dumped into the radiator return pipe at the back of the engine when the vapouriser has finished with it. If the vapouriser is cold & frosty that water could be below freezing (further depressing the temperature on the gauge).
The key problem is insufficient flow through the vapouriser (but that doesn't mean that the thermostat isn't faulty too............)
Slight disagreement from me here .... part deux ... The vapouriser return is being dumped into the system from the minute the engine starts, so will actually slow down the rate of warmup of the engine jacket, it won't depress the temperature, although it may stop it rising ..., as to depress the temp the vapouriser water would have to be added "after" the temp had risen .. which it can't do as it is part of the "water jacket" ....
At least that's how I see it .. :)
Until you switch to LPG the vapouriser doesn't need any heat. As soon as you start converting liquid to gas there is a big heat demand which causes the drop in temperature.
ahh different to mine then ... mine starts to take heat from the jacket as soon as the engine starts, then once sufficient heat has been taken to convert the LPG to gas, and the gas pressure rises to whatever the little gizmo is set at, then it auto switches and runs on gas. :)
The heat needed to warm up the aluminium casting is tiny compared to the heat need to turn liquid into gas. I wasn't saying that the vapouriser didn't take coolant flow before the engine was warm, I was saying that the full cooling effect didn't kick in until the gas starts flowing.
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The vap is set in series from the back of the engine block.
Coolant bridge out > vap > hbv > and so on.
So the coolant circulates the vap at all times, if LPG is on or not.
I have never been aware of LPG use cooling the coolant. But for obvious reasons, I have not observed the temp behaviours on petrol only.
On the journey home, the car took a good 15 mins to get up to temp.
Up to about 70 pause, 75 pause. Up to 80 finally, pause. Switch LPG on, gradual rise up to 90, noticed after 20-25 mins after start up that the temp had dropped back to 85.
The LPG switch over threshold has been set at 40c vap temp for about 7months. It's was fine initially, with a very steady decline over that period. As said , initial switch over is fine, and runs well. The danger area seems to be from 65/70c up to 80c on the engine temp gauge.
Vap temp never drops below 45 once LPG is on, and I saw it at 50 odd for most of this mornings commute. This is ample for vap operation, no?
When working well, LPG used to switch over within 30secs of start up. It now takes a good 5 mins.
It cirtainly sees slow to warm up. Now that I have actually noticed what the temp is doing. :-[
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My moneys on the Stat.... :)
It coped in warmer weather .. now its getting cold the system is struggling
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...and transfer pipe ordered from andyc today. :)
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Although I did wonder about an air lock in the vap. As Kev surmised a few weeks ago on a visit. But we didn't know about the coolent variation then.
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Hi been following your thread-my Vap has pipe from bridge(back of engine)going to it and other pipe to back of HBV
is that wrong? its always been like that no problems as i have noticed-do I need to alter?
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Sounds correct to me.
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Something odd is going on with your vapuoriser anyway, it was cooling off way too much on a long run at full running temperature IMHO.
I don't suppose you looked at the vapour pressure and vapouriser temperature when it was playing up on gas?
By way of balance, my vapouriser temperature sensor is knackered, so it's currently wired with a resistor to read 98 degrees C all of the time. It switches over to LPG at > 30 seconds since engine start when RPM > 2000. At the end of my road, in other words. I've been wondering if this would cause a problem in colder weather yet this morning, -2 Deg. C and I didn't notice it switch over.
As long as the vapouriser doesn't freeze up it will still work. Maybe not at full power but for normal driving. A good circulation of water at a few degrees above zero will provide enough heat to compensate for the LPG boiling off although you'll get a lot of heavy ends until the temperature gets up well enough. Propane boils at -40 C after all!
Mine also had a knackered thermostat for a while (gauge read about 75-80 unless in traffic) and the LPG setup worked fine.
I think there's a problem with the vapouriser or the plumbing to it, TBH.
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I've got a thermometer somewhere, which would show if rad is heating early (open stat)
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Oh, and my thermostat showed the same symptoms during warm up. Heated up to 85, dropped like a stone to the bottom of the gauge. Repeated this a couple of times then sat at 75-80.
It didn't heat the top hose until normal temperature, but was clearly sticking.
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Sounds correct to me.
Cheers mate :y Hope you get ya car sorted mate :y :y :y
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IIRC, Gixer's coolant temperature was looking OK on the live data when we were scratching our heads. High 90's when "giving it some" IIRC. Vapouriser was down to 50 at one point. ???
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Just to note. The car was never cold during Kevs examination. The symptoms never occurred then.
A remap improved things generally, and the car runs lovely on gas... Once warm.
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Just to note. The car was never cold during Kevs examination. The symptoms never occurred then.
A remap improved things, and the car runs lovely on gas... Once warm.
Yep, agreed.. we pondered that a differential of more than 40 degrees between vapouriser and coolant wouldn't be good if it occurred at a lower coolant temperature. ;)
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Just to note. The car was never cold during Kevs examination. The symptoms never occurred then.
A remap improved things, and the car runs lovely on gas... Once warm.
Yep, agreed.. we pondered that a differential of more than 40 degrees between vapouriser and coolant wouldn't be good if it occurred at a lower coolant temperature. ;)
Indeed. I have pondered insulating the vap pipes on occasions prior to these issues.
But shouldn't be an issue, if all is well, as you said before I believe. :)
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Is the vapouriser piped in series with the heater matrix?
Is it possible that the heater matrix might be partially blocked and in need of a flush?
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Is the vapouriser piped in series with the heater matrix?
Is it possible that the heater matrix might be partially blocked and in need of a flush?
No. It's plumbed in before the hbv.
So the pipe that goes from bridge to hbv, no goes from bridge to vapourisor to hbv, which then goes on to the bulkhead as normal.
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Is the vapouriser piped in series with the heater matrix?
Is it possible that the heater matrix might be partially blocked and in need of a flush?
No. It's plumbed in before the hbv.
So the pipe that goes from bridge to hbv, no goes from bridge to vapourisor to hbv, which then goes on to the bulkhead as normal.
So... when you have heat on in the cabin the water flows through the vapouriser first then HBV and through the bulkhead to the heater matrix.
If low flow was causing the vapouriser to discharge ice cold coolant I would expect the heater to blow cold air as a consequence. :o
The thermostat looks like it is the prime suspect ;D
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Still think it's the stat and it makes me think I need to sort mine sooner rather than later ::)
We could do some back to back runs Sunday am and compare yours vs mine if you like? :-\
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The thermostat looks like it is the prime suspect ;D
I'm not convinced.. Unless the vapouriser (different to mine) is a lot less efficient at getting heat into the gas. :-\
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The thermostat looks like it is the prime suspect ;D
I'm not convinced.. Unless the vapouriser (different to mine) is a lot less efficient at getting heat into the gas. :-\
It does seem strange... I know my car is overcooling but it still switches over to LPG and runs fine at 30C (I think) :-\
Thinking about it... That Vap has been out since the first fit and temp sensor re-wired... I wonder... :-\
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It is also mounted with the coolant feeds at the bottom, so I can see that it might be prone to airlocking, and it would be unlikely to fill completely with coolant. Then again, guessing you and theboy both have exactly the same setup without any issues? :-\
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It is also mounted with the coolant feeds at the bottom, so I can see that it might be prone to airlocking, and it would be unlikely to fill completely with coolant. Then again, guessing you and theboy both have exactly the same setup without any issues? :-\
I've purposely staying out of this because I have an cold idle/stall problem on my Omega with the same setup (TBE), so I think my experiences would confuse the issue.
Beyond the cold idle problem, mine behaves as you would expect, except the gauge overshoots as it warms up, then drops down as the stat opens, then goes to where it should. Probably slightly slow to open the stat.
Idle problem is known about, that Cripple bloke has some new nozzles for me, as 2.5mm is WAAAAYYY to big for this setup :-[
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It is also mounted with the coolant feeds at the bottom, so I can see that it might be prone to airlocking, and it would be unlikely to fill completely with coolant. Then again, guessing you and theboy both have exactly the same setup without any issues? :-\
I've purposely staying out of this because I have an cold idle/stall problem on my Omega with the same setup (TBE), so I think my experiences would confuse the issue.
Beyond the cold idle problem, mine behaves as you would expect, except the gauge overshoots as it warms up, then drops down as the stat opens, then goes to where it should. Probably slightly slow to open the stat.
Idle problem is known about, that Cripple bloke has some new nozzles for me, as 2.5mm is WAAAAYYY to big for this setup :-[
Oh yes... Must put them in the car :-[ ::)
I have the same vap setup and (known stat issue aside ::)) mine doesn't seem to drop temp too much :-\ :-\
Mind you... I had a load of missfire codes this morning ::)
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Well, I find if I leave the car to warm up on frosty mornings before I get in it, I don't have a problem. :y
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Needs some live data from the LPG system to see what's going on when it's playing up, IMHO.
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Changed temp sensor setting to one the same as Lazydockers. Now reads a figure about 40c higher, and similar to engine temp.
No idea if that makes any odds or if the software will react differently to a higher figure, but I'm going to try it on the new setting for a couple of days.
Obviously the exceptionally cold weather has no baring on this at all. ::)
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Ahh, well, if the sensor was telling us porkie pies... ;D
Not sure it will help that much, as I think that temperature is only used for switchover criteria. Don't suppose the vapour temperature sensor is wrong too?
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It would explain the apparent difference between vap and coolent temp though, and although it did dip on wot at similar speeds, it's was nowhere near as close to switch over point as we might have thought.
So might dispell the air lock theory.... But not the rough running...?
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Nope, that made bog all difference.
Still plays up badly between 65 and 80c engine temp.
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Nope, that made bog all difference.
Still plays up badly between 65 and 80c engine temp.
With climate panel on today?
Try without tomorrow as it behaved yesterday with it off :-\
Very curious though as there was nothing obviously wrong :-\
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Nope, that made bog all difference.
Still plays up badly between 65 and 80c engine temp.
With climate panel on today?
Try without tomorrow as it behaved yesterday with it off :-\
Very curious though as there was nothing obviously wrong :-\
Set to 27 from the off.
See what the weather is like in the morning. ;)
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Nope, that made bog all difference.
Still plays up badly between 65 and 80c engine temp.
With climate panel on today?
Try without tomorrow as it behaved yesterday with it off :-\
Very curious though as there was nothing obviously wrong :-\
If it worked OK with climate turned off (and if climate 'off' means that the HBV switches to bypass the heater matrix) then that points to resistance from the heater matrix causing reduced flow IMO.
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Nope, that made bog all difference.
Still plays up badly between 65 and 80c engine temp.
With climate panel on today?
Try without tomorrow as it behaved yesterday with it off :-\
Very curious though as there was nothing obviously wrong :-\
If it worked OK with climate turned off (and if climate 'off' means that the HBV switches to bypass the heater matrix) then that points to resistance from the heater matrix causing reduced flow IMO.
I'd agree with that but if the reduced coolant flow was causing the issue it should show as a drop in vap temp, which doesn't happen :-\
Easy check would be if the vap is iced when the problems occur ;)
I just can't see anything obvious in the live data. As another thought... Having changed the temp sensor in the software to one that reads much nearer to the correct engine temp, that will probably have changed where the LPG switches in... Yet the issues are at the same coolant temp during warm up :-\
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No vap icing, I've checked.
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I have seen occasional references to 'heavy ends'. Is it possible that your vapouriser/pressure regulator is sticking before it is properly hot?
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I have seen occasional references to 'heavy ends'. Is it possible that your vapouriser/pressure regulator is sticking before it is properly hot?
Now that has potential, although with the settings you have I would be surprised... Mine switches much earlier and is fine :-\ :-\
How many miles since converting this one Chris?
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About 30k. Fitted may 2011.
Just to add, there is no issue on petrol at any point.
Problem only occurs in gas, between 65 and 80c, as rough running that gradually gets worse from switching to gas at 40c, to the point the car will not tun on gas at all. ...until it gets above 80c minimum, where all is well.
Although its now getting to the stage where it's quite grumpy the moment it switches over.
This has been a gradual decline for a few months.
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Have you changed the filters in that time (liquid side or gas side)?
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Have you got the auto mapping turned on? Just thinking that if it starts messing about switching back to petrol while it's not fully warmed up it might well get the hump.
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Adaptions are on now, but where off before, no change.
Not changed any filters.
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Could it be as simple as needing filters/heavy ends draining :-\ :-\
Can't see it needing Vapour Phase filters changing as I did over 40k on the last one (other car) :-\
Could be liquid phase filter and/or heavy ends :-\ :-\
Got to be worth a try
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Seems coolent temp related to me, but worth a look. :)
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Seems coolent temp related to me, but worth a look. :)
I'd agree TBH... If it were heavy ends I would expect it to play up completely until warm, not be fine and then start playing up :-\
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Something odd is going on with your vapuoriser anyway, it was cooling off way too much on a long run at full running temperature IMHO.
I don't suppose you looked at the vapour pressure and vapouriser temperature when it was playing up on gas?
By way of balance, my vapouriser temperature sensor is knackered, so it's currently wired with a resistor to read 98 degrees C all of the time. It switches over to LPG at > 30 seconds since engine start when RPM > 2000. At the end of my road, in other words. I've been wondering if this would cause a problem in colder weather yet this morning, -2 Deg. C and I didn't notice it switch over.
As long as the vapouriser doesn't freeze up it will still work. Maybe not at full power but for normal driving. A good circulation of water at a few degrees above zero will provide enough heat to compensate for the LPG boiling off although you'll get a lot of heavy ends until the temperature gets up well enough. Propane boils at -40 C after all!
Mine also had a knackered thermostat for a while (gauge read about 75-80 unless in traffic) and the LPG setup worked fine.
I think there's a problem with the vapouriser or the plumbing to it, TBH.
Mine curently runs at this temp and has done so since i flushed the coolant and the vaporisor out. i have 2 ideas, the thermosat is on its way out that or its because i put the hoses on the bottom of the vap the wrong way round.she runs fine. gas kicks in as it should only gets up to temp (92- 95) when in traffic or running on petrol. if i switch back to gas the temp drops back down to 75 - 80.
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Marie - PFL and FL read differently. 85-90 is correct cruise temp for FL, 93-95 is correct for PFL
:)
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Marie - PFL and FL read differently. 85-90 is correct cruise temp for FL, 93-95 is correct for PFL
:)
cool so mine is still wrong ???? mines a mini FL i believe. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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Marie - PFL and FL read differently. 85-90 is correct cruise temp for FL, 93-95 is correct for PFL
:)
cool so mine is still wrong ???? mines a mini FL i believe. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Apparently so ............ :) :) :)
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Hopefully get a chance to look into this further tomorrow. Will start with removing the vap and turning it upside down to allow any air out.
Check filters, can these be emptied or blow through?
If nothing obvious change stat. Are the water pump vanes visible with stat removed and looking down the block? Just to eliminate that one too? :-\
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Vapour phase could just be blown back through (I suppose... Never needed to change them) and liquid phase... Have a look and see how dirty it is :-\
While you have the vap off, there should be a drain plug in the base for the heavy ends ;)
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Marie - PFL and FL read differently. 85-90 is correct cruise temp for FL, 93-95 is correct for PFL
:)
cool so mine is still wrong ???? mines a mini FL i believe. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
MFL = PFL in this discussion :). So yours should cruise just below 95C (just below the mid point on the gauge)
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Out of interest, Chris, what size nozzles are you running?
I recall the new style injectors are a bit marginal with respect to getting a short enough duration if they are oversized. ECU said nozzles too big when we calibrated (not that I'd normally worry too much) but I'm thinking.. Vapour will get more dense at lower temperatures, so shorter duration will be needed at idle. I wonder if it's overfuelling with the injectors already delivering the minimum amount of fuel they reliably can?
Once the vapouriser is hot, vapour out of it is warmer thus no problem. :-\
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Out of interest, Chris, what size nozzles are you running?
I recall the new style injectors are a bit marginal with respect to getting a short enough duration if they are oversized. ECU said nozzles too big when we calibrated (not that I'd normally worry too much) but I'm thinking.. Vapour will get more dense at lower temperatures, so shorter duration will be needed at idle. I wonder if it's overfuelling with the injectors already delivering the minimum amount of fuel they reliably can?
Once the vapouriser is hot, vapour out of it is warmer thus no problem. :-\
2.3mm, same as Lazy's. Iirc it wouldn't calibrate at 2.2mm. But we can try the smaller sizes when we do TB's. it was fine all last winter. Something has changed.
I haven't touched the car today. Stinking Headache. :(
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Mine is running at 2.5mm, and its too big to idle nicely in neutral. In drive, held on the brakes, its fine.
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ISTR 2.2mm was too small, although the pressure could be upped a fraction I suppose, at 1.1 BAR (which is supposed to be optimal) :-\
2.3mm is generally OK, although it does sometimes have a little hunt if in Neutral :-\
That said, mine's definitely running cool at the moment so not the best comparison, but I don't have any of the issues Chris does :-\ That said, I have a different start to all my journeys to him (roads/junctions/speed limits etc) :-\
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Mine is running at 2.5mm, and its too big to idle nicely in neutral. In drive, held on the brakes, its fine.
2.5 being recomended in the paperwork for this kit. Tried mine at 2.5 as the instructions, but nfg. New nozzles re drill etc etc.
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I suppose it's more likely to be something that's changed... :-\ Don't suppose the vapour pressure has increased?
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Not that I've noticed. But that doesn't answer your question as I've not had a cable until recently. :y
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I suppose it's more likely to be something that's changed... :-\ Don't suppose the vapour pressure has increased?
Actually, just had a look at the oscilloscope file again and the pressure is a little high... Perhaps try resetting it to 1.1 BAR and (possibly) recalibrate :-\
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Did we see that the fuel trim malfunction bank 2 code was lean though?
This code and the mss fires is normal mo when the fault occurs.
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Thinking of chaning my 2.6 over to gas next year I have had a few quotes which range from £950 -£1295 various systems as you are all on gas could I ask a few questions:
What is the best system?
What size tank have you got or is available (saloon model) ?
I notice there are spare wheel well tanks - saloon has an upright spare wheel - is it possible to get a tank to replace that wheel? or do you have to have a horizontle tank?
how does the V6 run on gas?
Cheers
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Thinking of chaning my 2.6 over to gas next year I have had a few quotes which range from £950 -£1295 various systems as you are all on gas could I ask a few questions:
What is the best system?
What size tank have you got or is available (saloon model) ?
I notice there are spare wheel well tanks - saloon has an upright spare wheel - is it possible to get a tank to replace that wheel? or do you have to have a horizontle tank?
how does the V6 run on gas?
Cheers
Best system ... good question .. answers will vary !! I have an expensive BRC system .. a smidge over 2 grand 4 1/2 years ago ... DIY is around £800 ... "best" is very subjective !!
I have an 80 litre tank so 64 ltrs LPG (80% max) /.. around 300 miles solo run, 200 miles in town, 180 miles towing the tin-tent
Mine is horizontal and takes up about 1/3 rd the boot space
How does it run ??? Like a dream ... absolutely no difference in performance, right to the red line, solo or towing, only major difference is in cost per mile ... petrol it 26 p a mile .. LPG its 16 p a mile .. a saving of 38% ... :)
But only worth doing if a) you do enough miles to justify conversion, b) you intend to keep the car, c) the ignition system is in 100% condition - LPG will quickly find any faults in the ignition system d) You have the ability to fill with LPG within a sensible distance
Just my views .. nowt else :)
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Thinking of chaning my 2.6 over to gas next year I have had a few quotes which range from £950 -£1295 various systems as you are all on gas could I ask a few questions:
What is the best system?
What size tank have you got or is available (saloon model) ?
I notice there are spare wheel well tanks - saloon has an upright spare wheel - is it possible to get a tank to replace that wheel? or do you have to have a horizontle tank?
how does the V6 run on gas?
Cheers
"Best" for me was the AC Stag 300, KME Gold vapouriser and Teilo supplied injectors. "Best" due to the fact there is a reasonable amount of knowledge on this site for this, and its cheap (via Lazydocker's contact) DIY (under the £600 mark).
My older Omega has the same gas kit, but with a different vapouriser and Valtek injectors, this suffers lag at redline gearchanges, esp if the gas tank isn't near full.
Both mine have a 80l cylinder tank just behind rear seats, giving me a range of approx 275 (3.0l) and 240 (3.2l) (yes, the 3.0l is noticibly more economical (on petrol or gas)), but I probably drive it reasonably hard. I tend to average 19.5mpg on LPG in the 3.0l, and about 17-18mpg in the 3.2l. Both autos.
A man of your skills and knowledge, I'd recommend the DIY route.
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Cheers for the info, I was also offered in one of the quotes a valve lub option for an extra £100 - no idea how this works meant to lubricate valves - anyone had burnt out valves using gas?
I was going to replace the valve guide oil seals before i convert it as they where prone to failure around 2001 and it does smoke a little. How much is the road tax discount I presume i would have to get a company to do the job to get this benefit?
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No need for flashlube on the V6.Its fine without it.Iirc road tax discount is an enormous £10 per year.No need to have a company install it to get the discount,but you will need to pay (around £100 I believe) to have it certificated after installation.
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Cheers for the info, I was also offered in one of the quotes a valve lub option for an extra £100 - no idea how this works meant to lubricate valves - anyone had burnt out valves using gas?
I was going to replace the valve guide oil seals before i convert it as they where prone to failure around 2001 and it does smoke a little. How much is the road tax discount I presume i would have to get a company to do the job to get this benefit?
Mine has the flashlube fitted, it came as standard fit .. hasn't had any oil in it for 40000 miles !!
Answers to your other points alreasdy given .. :)
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Anyone remember Masterdtm saying jubilee clips are a bad idea? Due to the fact the tension is set, and not sprung loaded, so when the rubber retracts the jubilees leak, where as the vx sprung loaded clips don't.
Well, bank 2 had a leak to one of the gas filters to injectors. I had the bonet up on a cold start and could dmell gas quite strongly. Masters words where ringing in my ears as I fitted the jubilees, but they went on as I didn't have enough vx spring clips. :(
Although lets see if that cures the poor running on cold starts first.
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seems to be running perrfectly :-[
:y
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Cheers for the info, I was also offered in one of the quotes a valve lub option for an extra £100 - no idea how this works meant to lubricate valves - anyone had burnt out valves using gas?
I was going to replace the valve guide oil seals before i convert it as they where prone to failure around 2001 and it does smoke a little. How much is the road tax discount I presume i would have to get a company to do the job to get this benefit?
Flashlube not required on XxxXE engines.
2001 may be borderline for any tax discount. Depends if its on the old under/over 1500cc tax (no discount) or emmissions based tax (£10).
As long as its certified, you get the discount, but you have to jump through DVLA hoops. Not worth the effort for the discount, but I wanted mine to be all perfect from paperwork side.
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seems to be running perrfectly :-[
:y
Work of Satin. I know, I've got jublies on mine, and we know how many leaks I've been chasing
But good news that its running well.
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seems to be running perrfectly :-[
:y
Work of Satin. I know, I've got jublies on mine, and we know how many leaks I've been chasing
But good news that its running well.
I think I need to get my nose recalibrated. I have had odd smells for a while. Non of which neither I or Lazyf@ker would describe as a gasy smell. A cross between hot brakes and hot coolent, but not the traditional gasy eggy smell I would associate with a gas leak.
You however, have been saying yours had a definate gas leak, no doubt about it. I couldn't smell that either, or at least didn't recognise the smell as gas.
I only noticed the eggy smell as I had the bonet open. I guess the leak has to be of a certain strength before the eggy ness is noticeable.
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seems to be running perrfectly :-[
:y
Work of Satin. I know, I've got jublies on mine, and we know how many leaks I've been chasing
But good news that its running well.
I think I need to get my nose recalibrated. I have had odd smells for a while. Non of which neither I or Lazyf@ker would describe as a gasy smell. A cross between hot brakes and hot coolent, but not the traditional gasy eggy smell I would associate with a gas leak.
You however, have been saying yours had a definate gas leak, no doubt about it. I couldn't smell that either, or at least didn't recognise the smell as gas.
I only noticed the eggy smell as I had the bonet open. I guess the leak has to be of a certain strength before the eggy ness is noticeable.
I would suggest either a doctor, or less curry.
Actually, scrub that, both silly, silly, silly ideas!
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I only noticed the eggy smell as I had the bonet open. I guess the leak has to be of a certain strength before the eggy ness is noticeable.
Bear with me on this theory, lots of 'ifs' so probably nonsense :-[
When they first started fitting two way catalytic converters to cars they stank of hydrogen sulphide (stink bomb/rotten egg smell). Later cars were fitted with three way catalytic converters which only smell when cold IIRC :-\.
The facelift Omega has two cats. I wonder if the pre-cat is a two-way converter?
I cannot remember if you have moved your lambda sensors :-\ I wonder if a leaky blanking plug between the pre-cat and main-cat would stink of rotten eggs :-\
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Cheers for the info, I was also offered in one of the quotes a valve lub option for an extra £100 - no idea how this works meant to lubricate valves - anyone had burnt out valves using gas?
I was going to replace the valve guide oil seals before i convert it as they where prone to failure around 2001 and it does smoke a little. How much is the road tax discount I presume i would have to get a company to do the job to get this benefit?
Flashlube not required on XxxXE engines.
2001 may be borderline for any tax discount. Depends if its on the old under/over 1500cc tax (no discount) or emmissions based tax (£10).
As long as its certified, you get the discount, but you have to jump through DVLA hoops. Not worth the effort for the discount, but I wanted mine to be all perfect from paperwork side.
Yeah mines the expensive emmissions based £270 a year one