Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 05 December 2012, 10:15:08

Title: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 05 December 2012, 10:15:08
SWMBO passed her driving test about a week ago. She's been merrily driving around in my 3.2 Omega and 3.0 Jaguar sport.. not really ideal first cars...

A little look around some dealerships.. we've come away with this:

2006/56 Astra Twintop convertible.. 1.8 16v VVT engine... went very, very well on the test drive, handling, steering, picking and braking was all excellent...

(http://parkers.bauercdn.com/Images/Temp/External/USEDCFS-203014531363200.0.jpg)

As for me...

Jaguar S type 3.0 Sport Auto - 240bhp, 5 speed, absolute monster of a car. It was my uncles, he had no use for it, and wanted it kept in the family because he loves it. So it's now mine :)

Am sorry to see the miggy go, but the Jag in honesty is less than half the miles, and is immaculate. And it makes me ;D

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/Photo096.jpg)
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: henryd on 05 December 2012, 10:42:16
Very nice James :y :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: b4ndit on 05 December 2012, 10:42:55
Two very nice cars congrats to your wife on passing her test :y :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: omega3000 on 05 December 2012, 11:56:06
Very nice cars  :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 December 2012, 12:11:32
Only comments on the 1.8 twin top are:

1) Not that fuel efficient
2) Get ready to repair wires on the boot harness, normal symptoms are the boot not opening etc.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 December 2012, 12:17:17
Routine servicing on the 1.8 makes the Omega look complicated and expensive ::)

Probably won't even need to jack the front end up drain the oil out, everything else is right there in front of you 8)

Full plug and filter change takes about 20 mins, including a cuppa and waiting for the oil to drain out completely ;D
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 December 2012, 12:54:39
Oh yes, inlet cam variator valve filter can get clohhed up on them to.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 December 2012, 13:00:46
Oh yes, inlet cam variator valve filter can get clogged up on them to.
Easily sorted though :y

In my mind, the gearing is the biggest disappointment,  really need another gear to bring the revs down at motorway speeds, would be alot more economical :-\
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 December 2012, 13:13:10
Only comments on the 1.8 twin top are:

1) Not that fuel efficient
2) Get ready to repair wires on the boot harness, normal symptoms are the boot not opening etc.

agreed.. I dont understand the logic of 1.8 engine if its athmospheric..  its not fuel efficient and not enough hp ..  for fuel and tax efficiency (here) 1.6 will be the best..  if you want power 2.0 will be the obvious choice.. :-\
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: dbug on 05 December 2012, 14:25:02
Congrats James and welcome to the ranks of Jaguar ownership :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: GastronomicKleptomaniac on 05 December 2012, 14:26:54
I do like those Jags... http://www.flickr.com/photos/63679105@N07/sets/72157629419510459/
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: andyc on 05 December 2012, 16:57:40
Drove my Uncles in the summer with the roof down, scuttle shake was more than expected. Just another tip to keep in mind and thats not all dealers can work on the roof if you get problems.

If you don't already have one get the wind break that sits just behind the front seats. Works great in the summer and stops you getting blown around but you can't use the rear seat when its fitted.


Andy
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 05 December 2012, 17:01:16
Very nice cars James!! :-* :-* :-* :y

Congratulations for those acquirements 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: jonnycool on 05 December 2012, 18:19:39
Very, very nice cars, 'specially yours James  :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 December 2012, 19:10:20
I really Like the look of the Jaaaagggggggggggg ;D. It looks far more imposing than the 3.0 SE auto X-type Mondeo ::) that Mrs Opti briefly owned a couple of years ago. :y :y :y :y

The Astra is the perfect girlie choice. :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: henryd on 05 December 2012, 21:24:49
I really Like the look of the Jaaaagggggggggggg ;D. It looks far more imposing than the 3.0 SE auto X-type Mondeo ::) that Mrs Opti briefly owned a couple of years ago. :y :y :y :y

The Astra is the perfect girlie choice. :-* :-* :-*

I agree,X type pretty handy on the road though with the 4 wheel drive :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: sassanach on 06 December 2012, 22:50:57
are you a married man now? my condolences,every man sooner or later has to stop enjoying life ;D
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 07 December 2012, 15:28:06
Did somebody say Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag????!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

I was looking at S-Types when I came across the XJR.  I'll tell you one thing, the XJR engine bay is so easy to work in, it's huge!  Plus Jag stealers parts aren't that expensive, my rocker cover gasket cost £32 with the vodka and tonic and it only took 30 mins to change :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Lazydocker on 07 December 2012, 15:34:16
Did somebody say Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag????!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

I was looking at S-Types when I came across the XJR.  I'll tell you one thing, the XJR engine bay is so easy to work in, it's huge!  Plus Jag stealers parts aren't that expensive, my rocker cover gasket cost £32 with the vodka and tonic and it only took 30 mins to change :y

But the Supercharged V8 version isn't quite so wallet friendly ::)
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 07 December 2012, 15:55:49
Did somebody say Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag????!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

I was looking at S-Types when I came across the XJR.  I'll tell you one thing, the XJR engine bay is so easy to work in, it's huge!  Plus Jag stealers parts aren't that expensive, my rocker cover gasket cost £32 with the vodka and tonic and it only took 30 mins to change :y

But the Supercharged V8 version isn't quite so wallet friendly ::)

Fair point, the lpg conversion starts this weekend!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 10 December 2012, 13:43:53
are you a married man now? my condolences,every man sooner or later has to stop enjoying life ;D

Not married... just committed  :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 10 December 2012, 14:18:01
Did somebody say Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag????!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

I was looking at S-Types when I came across the XJR.  I'll tell you one thing, the XJR engine bay is so easy to work in, it's huge!  Plus Jag stealers parts aren't that expensive, my rocker cover gasket cost £32 with the vodka and tonic and it only took 30 mins to change :y

But the Supercharged V8 version isn't quite so wallet friendly ::)

Fair point, the lpg conversion starts this weekend!  ;D ;D

Will be interesting to see how well LPG works on one given the presurised manifold?
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: henryd on 10 December 2012, 15:19:57
Did somebody say Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag????!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

I was looking at S-Types when I came across the XJR.  I'll tell you one thing, the XJR engine bay is so easy to work in, it's huge!  Plus Jag stealers parts aren't that expensive, my rocker cover gasket cost £32 with the vodka and tonic and it only took 30 mins to change :y

But the Supercharged V8 version isn't quite so wallet friendly ::)

Fair point, the lpg conversion starts this weekend!  ;D ;D

Will be interesting to see how well LPG works on one given the presurised manifold?

Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 10 December 2012, 21:18:21
Did somebody say Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag????!!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

I was looking at S-Types when I came across the XJR.  I'll tell you one thing, the XJR engine bay is so easy to work in, it's huge!  Plus Jag stealers parts aren't that expensive, my rocker cover gasket cost £32 with the vodka and tonic and it only took 30 mins to change :y

But the Supercharged V8 version isn't quite so wallet friendly ::)

Fair point, the lpg conversion starts this weekend!  ;D ;D

Will be interesting to see how well LPG works on one given the presurised manifold?

This was my thoughts too but plenty have been converted, it seems without incident.  I guess the key will be to keep the lpg nozzles close to the petrol injectors as per the typical omega setup.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 10 December 2012, 21:21:34
Its the evaporator pressure that is going to need to be much higher, what's the Max pressure for the evaporators
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 10 December 2012, 21:26:04
I cant remember, but it will go up to 320hp.  The XJR is 321hp so even if I set it to switch to petrol over 3.5-4k rpm I should be ok.  Most driving is dont in the 2-3k rpm range
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Lazydocker on 11 December 2012, 00:23:37
You'll almost certainly need a restriction in the petrol return line to the tank too :-\ But then you already know that ;) ::)
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 11 December 2012, 06:17:51
You'll almost certainly need a restriction in the petrol return line to the tank too :-\ But then you already know that ;) ::)

I thought that was required on the later engines, not on the AJ16s :-\
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 December 2012, 08:16:02
I cant remember, but it will go up to 320hp.  The XJR is 321hp so even if I set it to switch to petrol over 3.5-4k rpm I should be ok.  Most driving is dont in the 2-3k rpm range

Thats more flow related than max pressure.

The LPG feeds will probably need to be 1.5-2bar pressure fed as the inlet manifold is likely to see +1 bar at times and hence the question regarding the max evaporator pressure  :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Lazydocker on 11 December 2012, 09:15:42
You'll almost certainly need a restriction in the petrol return line to the tank too :-\ But then you already know that ;) ::)

I thought that was required on the later engines, not on the AJ16s :-\

Might be ok :-\ You'll soon know and it's not a major issue if you later have to put it in :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 December 2012, 09:29:28
Evaporator output pressure is referenced to intake manifold pressure anyway, so, in theory, it tracks it to provide a constant pressure across the injectors. In theory. Whether it will still keep up with flow when delivering 1.5 bar+boost pressure, and what it'll do when you suddenly lift off and the pressure is 1.5bar+boost pressure+manifold vacuum remains to be seen. The systems are supposed to work with FI just as they do with a natasp engine but it's new ground for us.

Of course, with forced induction, one can't over stress the requirement to prevent it going lean. I think I'd be investing in a  wideband lambda sensor, as the usual rich indication on a conventional lambda isn't really good enough on boost. I'd want to know it's down below 12:1 (petrol equivalent) on boost.

I can't see the XJR having anything but a conventional fuel (petrol) system, but the S type may well need some tinkering there if JV6 is considering LPG. May well need flashlube and all sorts considering it's a Ford derived engine.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: aaronjb on 11 December 2012, 09:44:28
If you need to borrow one, I have one of these sitting in the garage: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php (actually I have it's slightly less fancy looking predecessor, the LM-1).. We'd just need to get an exhaust sniffer mount for the wideband sensor (unless there's a bung somewhere already).
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 December 2012, 12:25:59
Can you get a simulated narrowband output from that? I know you can from my ancient TechEdge (which I'd also be happy to offer, but it's kinda integrated into the Westfield's wiring loom currently).

If you can, just replace one of the pre-cat lambdas with it and feed the narrowband output to the ECU to keep that happy.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 11 December 2012, 12:26:59
I can't see the XJR having anything but a conventional fuel (petrol) system, but the S type may well need some tinkering there if JV6 is considering LPG. May well need flashlube and all sorts considering it's a Ford derived engine.

That is what put me off getting the S-Type and a later XJR.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 11 December 2012, 12:29:20
Can you get a simulated narrowband output from that? I know you can from my ancient TechEdge (which I'd also be happy to offer, but it's kinda integrated into the Westfield's wiring loom currently).

If you can, just replace one of the pre-cat lambdas with it and feed the narrowband output to the ECU to keep that happy.

Ok, it sounds like I am going to have to do some more research on this.  Wideband O2 Sensors are new to me.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: aaronjb on 11 December 2012, 12:34:05
Can you get a simulated narrowband output from that? I know you can from my ancient TechEdge (which I'd also be happy to offer, but it's kinda integrated into the Westfield's wiring loom currently).

If you can, just replace one of the pre-cat lambdas with it and feed the narrowband output to the ECU to keep that happy.

Yup, it even has programmable switch points.. ditto for the standalone LC-1 that I also have sitting on a shelf - might even part with the latter permanently given sufficient monetary persuasion as I'm not 100% sure I'll run a full-time wideband display on the V8  :y
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 December 2012, 12:42:19
Can you get a simulated narrowband output from that? I know you can from my ancient TechEdge (which I'd also be happy to offer, but it's kinda integrated into the Westfield's wiring loom currently).

If you can, just replace one of the pre-cat lambdas with it and feed the narrowband output to the ECU to keep that happy.

Yup, it even has programmable switch points.. ditto for the standalone LC-1 that I also have sitting on a shelf - might even part with the latter permanently given sufficient monetary persuasion as I'm not 100% sure I'll run a full-time wideband display on the V8  :y

You can just pour it into that with a watering can, and to hell with what comes out, can't you? ;D
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: aaronjb on 11 December 2012, 13:42:45
Can you get a simulated narrowband output from that? I know you can from my ancient TechEdge (which I'd also be happy to offer, but it's kinda integrated into the Westfield's wiring loom currently).

If you can, just replace one of the pre-cat lambdas with it and feed the narrowband output to the ECU to keep that happy.

Yup, it even has programmable switch points.. ditto for the standalone LC-1 that I also have sitting on a shelf - might even part with the latter permanently given sufficient monetary persuasion as I'm not 100% sure I'll run a full-time wideband display on the V8  :y

You can just pour it into that with a watering can, and to hell with what comes out, can't you? ;D

 ;D Something like that! Although with the 3.058 diff and fuel injected throttle bodies I'm hoping it's not too bad.. in reality I'll probably have so much money invested in the engine that I'll go for a professional tune, though, and then not spend the rest of my life staring at an O2 gauge like I did with the MR2 :-[
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 11 December 2012, 19:06:20
Ok I have read up about wideband lambdas and it makes sense that I should use one.  They aren't cheap though!  The AJ16s are bulletproof but to a point.  I am starting the work in Jan, recovery from Operation permitting :y

Edit:  I take it that fitting one is fairly straight-forward and that I dont have to program the bugger?
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 December 2012, 23:20:40
Ok I have read up about wideband lambdas and it makes sense that I should use one.  They aren't cheap though!  The AJ16s are bulletproof but to a point.  I am starting the work in Jan, recovery from Operation permitting :y

Edit:  I take it that fitting one is fairly straight-forward and that I dont have to program the bugger?

You only really need it for setting-up the LPG system, I'd say, so the borrow option would be good enough. :y

.. and I doubt there's a "professional" LPG fitter in the country who would bother, but I would, personally.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: 2woody on 11 December 2012, 23:38:30
Evaporator output pressure is referenced to intake manifold pressure anyway, so, in theory, it tracks it to provide a constant pressure across the injectors. In theory. Whether it will still keep up with flow when delivering 1.5 bar+boost pressure, and what it'll do when you suddenly lift off and the pressure is 1.5bar+boost pressure+manifold vacuum remains to be seen. The systems are supposed to work with FI just as they do with a natasp engine but it's new ground for us.

Of course, with forced induction, one can't over stress the requirement to prevent it going lean. I think I'd be investing in a  wideband lambda sensor, as the usual rich indication on a conventional lambda isn't really good enough on boost. I'd want to know it's down below 12:1 (petrol equivalent) on boost.

I can't see the XJR having anything but a conventional fuel (petrol) system, but the S type may well need some tinkering there if JV6 is considering LPG. May well need flashlube and all sorts considering it's a Ford derived engine.

don't forget LPG is 110 Octane
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 December 2012, 23:49:36
Evaporator output pressure is referenced to intake manifold pressure anyway, so, in theory, it tracks it to provide a constant pressure across the injectors. In theory. Whether it will still keep up with flow when delivering 1.5 bar+boost pressure, and what it'll do when you suddenly lift off and the pressure is 1.5bar+boost pressure+manifold vacuum remains to be seen. The systems are supposed to work with FI just as they do with a natasp engine but it's new ground for us.

Of course, with forced induction, one can't over stress the requirement to prevent it going lean. I think I'd be investing in a  wideband lambda sensor, as the usual rich indication on a conventional lambda isn't really good enough on boost. I'd want to know it's down below 12:1 (petrol equivalent) on boost.

I can't see the XJR having anything but a conventional fuel (petrol) system, but the S type may well need some tinkering there if JV6 is considering LPG. May well need flashlube and all sorts considering it's a Ford derived engine.

don't forget LPG is 110 Octane

That is true, of course...
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: aaronjb on 12 December 2012, 10:58:42
Ok I have read up about wideband lambdas and it makes sense that I should use one.  They aren't cheap though!  The AJ16s are bulletproof but to a point.  I am starting the work in Jan, recovery from Operation permitting :y

Edit:  I take it that fitting one is fairly straight-forward and that I dont have to program the bugger?

Nothing is bulletproof if you run lean under boost ;)

But if you just borrow one (say an LM-1) and use the tailpipe mount (a bit like the MOT probe) then fitting is as straight forward as plugging it into the cigarette lighter and the LM-1 into a laptop via a serial port..
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 December 2012, 11:29:55
Ok I have read up about wideband lambdas and it makes sense that I should use one.  They aren't cheap though!  The AJ16s are bulletproof but to a point.  I am starting the work in Jan, recovery from Operation permitting :y

Edit:  I take it that fitting one is fairly straight-forward and that I dont have to program the bugger?

Nothing is bulletproof if you run lean under boost ;)

But if you just borrow one (say an LM-1) and use the tailpipe mount (a bit like the MOT probe) then fitting is as straight forward as plugging it into the cigarette lighter and the LM-1 into a laptop via a serial port..

Will it work post-cat, though? :-\
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 December 2012, 11:33:02
Surely it needs to be pre-cat to give mixture details?
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: aaronjb on 12 December 2012, 11:46:11
Pretty much all the rolling road folks do it post CAT - from what I understand you just need to 'adjust' the figure you're looking at as it looks constantly slightly leaner than it really is.. oh and slower to respond I guess.

I guess it's easy enough to swap it in place of a factory O2 sensor; given you're already messing with the wiring doing the LPG kit, just find the relevant wires into the ECU and splice it in with a suitable connector.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Gaffers on 12 December 2012, 13:59:39
Remember on the AJ16 there is 1 cat pre lambda and another further down the exhaust, will that not affect taking the reading at the tailpipe?
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 December 2012, 14:11:23
The second lambda won't make any odds, but measuring after the cat won't give you a true picture of what's going on.
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 December 2012, 14:13:05
That said, the cat will not be doing a great deal at full chat. Most of the exhaust gas will go straight through, so from a point of view of being able to compare the situation on petrol and LPG and adjust accordingly, it might be good enough. :-\
Title: Re: A Jaguar and Another VX joins the JV6 household!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 December 2012, 14:17:16
Trouble is that those transient lean periods wont show up post cat as it effectively 'smooths' the response.