Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: cleggy on 08 December 2012, 18:14:38
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I got this sent to me today and it's common sense, who needs Camoron :y
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living"
This was written by a 21 yr old female who gets it. It's her future shes worried about and this is how she feels about the social welfare system that shes being forced to live in! These solutions are just common sense in her opinion.
Put me in charge . . ..
Put me in charge of benefit payments. I'd get rid of cash payments and provide vouchers for 50kg bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese, basic sanitary items and all the powdered milk you can use.
If you want steak, burgers, takeaway and junk food, then get a job.
Put me in charge of the NHS. The first thing I'd do is to get women to have birth control implants.
Then, we'll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. If you want to reproduce, use drugs, drink alcohol or smoke, then get a job.
Put me in charge of local authority housing. Ever live in military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair.
Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried.
If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.
Put me in charge of compulsory job search. You will either search for employment each week no matter what the job or you will report for community work.
This may be clearing the roadways and open spaces of rubbish, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you.
We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your dooff dooff stereo and speakers and put that money toward the common good..
Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realise that all of the above is voluntary.
If you want our hard earned cash and housing assistance, accept our rules..
Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin someones "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.
If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards those for continuing to make bad choices.
AND While you are on benefit income you no longer have the right to VOTE!
For you to vote would be a conflict of interest..... If you want to vote, then get a job.
BRING ON THE REVOLUTION.
May I add that no-one gets income support for more than 2 children - if they want more they get a job.
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I would add "suspend all IVF treatment". Use the money for the health of the living. Having children is not a right- adopt a child if need be.
Could also add getting Prisoners to put something back into the system. They could build my (admittedly somewhat ambitious plan ) barrage over the Wash to create a huge freshwater lake that could supply the South East with all their needs and more for a hundred years.
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To start with the vast majority of the unemployed, including many who have succeeded in higher education and are well qualified, are desperate to work!
Where would they fit in to this grand scheme?
The long term ill, who for no fault of their own cannot work, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Those who have worked solidly most of their lives, but have been made redundant in their fifties, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Does the grand scheme intend to create mass employment for a decent wage anytime soon, at least for the younger generations?
Would you all be prepared to sacrifice your freedoms along with your dignity when you lose your job, are made redundant, fall ill, etc, etc, and support the grand scheme?
To achieve all the above would you like to vote in this grand scheme on the back of National Socialism?
If so let's have Hitler back to create jobs, develop industry, have full employment and build up the military to secure it all to achieve the grand scheme. Oh, and of course murder all disabled, all mentally ill, all those that do not fit in and meet the standards of the scheme, including those of impure race, or perceived enemies of the state who would not bow down to dictatorial rule.
The German Workers National Socialist Part achieved all that, effectively ending any form of welfare for anyone other than top state officials.
Communism also achieved a similar scheme under Stalin, although he actually murdered more people than Hitler ever did.
So before everyone jumps in on the current Coalition bandwagon of getting on top of "benefit scroungers", "those who have their curtains shut when the rest of us go to work",remember what is at stake, and how a state can alienate one group of people against the other very quickly.
I am a Conservative Socialist, and I am now becoming very ashamed of how Cameron & co. are acting against the disadvantaged, the VAST majority of whom are in circumstances they did not cause, and want to get out of. It was, I am ashamed to say, Maggie Thatcher who let British industry to fade, but, the saving fact is, AFTER previous Labour governments, with unions in charge, allowed it all to become a farce and a laughing stock of the World. I remember it well!
Now, in the 21st century let us not kick those that are already down who are we well know those who form the poorest part of our society, whilst the rich escape, laughing all the way to the bank, at the expense of the rest of us.
Revolution we do not need as they, ever since the French Revolution 0f 1789, ALWAYS deteriorate into mob rule with disastrous consequences.
No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
If you do not agree with what I say, well that is up to you. But it is what I believe after living these 59 years and operating in high business and seeing ugly situations, causing misery to others, but enacting by people with greed in their minds.
Man, and it is MAN, requires urgently strong control to stop man destroying fellow man, and allowing man to commit to constant warre as a natural condition. The Western Democratic World is now at a critical time. Decisions are required urgently.
Just remember though how previous empires, regimes, and societies have collapsed; they have eat themselves internally until they implode. Cameron has started us on that road and it is a dangerous one.
:y :y
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People who are disabled, people who have been made redundant for no fault of their own, people who are actively searching for work, i respect
What i don't respect is the layabout scroungers, people who can work but wont work, immigrants who come to the uk with no intention to work etc
As for the over qualified youngsters, screw the qualifications and invest into businesses to bring apprenticeships back to where they used be.
Each application for benefits should be thoroughly looked into, and not just given out like candy
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Like the couple I know 3 kids 2 different fathers and the one father of 2 of the kids had a job once-walked out-didnt like it-now WE pay ! Want kids get a job-why should I pay towards benefit bashers whos only job is too screw us all for more free handouts
Fair enough disabled -but then you get some who lie-which stops those who really need the help,from gettiing any
We are all doomed :'( :'( :'(
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I got this sent to me today and it's common sense, who needs Camoron :y
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living"
This was written by a 21 yr old female who gets it. It's her future shes worried about and this is how she feels about the social welfare system that shes being forced to live in! These solutions are just common sense in her opinion.
Put me in charge . . ..
Put me in charge of benefit payments. I'd get rid of cash payments and provide vouchers for 50kg bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese, basic sanitary items and all the powdered milk you can use.
If you want steak, burgers, takeaway and junk food, then get a job.
Put me in charge of the NHS. The first thing I'd do is to get women to have birth control implants.
Then, we'll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. If you want to reproduce, use drugs, drink alcohol or smoke, then get a job.
Put me in charge of local authority housing. Ever live in military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair.
Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried.
If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.
Put me in charge of compulsory job search. You will either search for employment each week no matter what the job or you will report for community work.
This may be clearing the roadways and open spaces of rubbish, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you.
We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your dooff dooff stereo and speakers and put that money toward the common good..
Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realise that all of the above is voluntary.
If you want our hard earned cash and housing assistance, accept our rules..
Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin someones "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.
If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards those for continuing to make bad choices.
AND While you are on benefit income you no longer have the right to VOTE!
For you to vote would be a conflict of interest..... If you want to vote, then get a job.
BRING ON THE REVOLUTION.
May I add that no-one gets income support for more than 2 children - if they want more they get a job.
hitler is alive and well :y :y
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No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
No chance of that Lizzie until 2015, thanks to The Right Honourable David Cameron and his 5 year fixed term parliament. ::) One thing he has been quite clever about! :-\
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To start with the vast majority of the unemployed, including many who have succeeded in higher education and are well qualified, are desperate to work!
Where would they fit in to this grand scheme?
The long term ill, who for no fault of their own cannot work, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Those who have worked solidly most of their lives, but have been made redundant in their fifties, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Does the grand scheme intend to create mass employment for a decent wage anytime soon, at least for the younger generations?
Would you all be prepared to sacrifice your freedoms along with your dignity when you lose your job, are made redundant, fall ill, etc, etc, and support the grand scheme?
To achieve all the above would you like to vote in this grand scheme on the back of National Socialism?
If so let's have Hitler back to create jobs, develop industry, have full employment and build up the military to secure it all to achieve the grand scheme. Oh, and of course murder all disabled, all mentally ill, all those that do not fit in and meet the standards of the scheme, including those of impure race, or perceived enemies of the state who would not bow down to dictatorial rule.
The German Workers National Socialist Part achieved all that, effectively ending any form of welfare for anyone other than top state officials.
Communism also achieved a similar scheme under Stalin, although he actually murdered more people than Hitler ever did.
So before everyone jumps in on the current Coalition bandwagon of getting on top of "benefit scroungers", "those who have their curtains shut when the rest of us go to work",remember what is at stake, and how a state can alienate one group of people against the other very quickly.
I am a Conservative Socialist, and I am now becoming very ashamed of how Cameron & co. are acting against the disadvantaged, the VAST majority of whom are in circumstances they did not cause, and want to get out of. It was, I am ashamed to say, Maggie Thatcher who let British industry to fade, but, the saving fact is, AFTER previous Labour governments, with unions in charge, allowed it all to become a farce and a laughing stock of the World. I remember it well!
Now, in the 21st century let us not kick those that are already down who are we well know those who form the poorest part of our society, whilst the rich escape, laughing all the way to the bank, at the expense of the rest of us.
Revolution we do not need as they, ever since the French Revolution 0f 1789, ALWAYS deteriorate into mob rule with disastrous consequences.
No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
If you do not agree with what I say, well that is up to you. But it is what I believe after living these 59 years and operating in high business and seeing ugly situations, causing misery to others, but enacting by people with greed in their minds.
Man, and it is MAN, requires urgently strong control to stop man destroying fellow man, and allowing man to commit to constant warre as a natural condition. The Western Democratic World is now at a critical time. Decisions are required urgently.
Just remember though how previous empires, regimes, and societies have collapsed; they have eat themselves internally until they implode. Cameron has started us on that road and it is a dangerous one.
:y :y
Lizzie you are missing the point, this is a tongue in cheek but a fair way to deal with the scroungers, not the disabled or people who have contributed to our welfare systems and come upon hard times
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No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
No chance of that Lizzie until 2015, thanks to The Right Honourable David Cameron and his 5 year fixed term parliament. ::) One thing he has been quite clever about! :-\
Thanks to his mis-judgements, he is now becoming a liability to his own party and the rest of us. He is treading on thin ice and he could well fall through before the next General Election. The Party is not happy, there are growing voices of disdain, the Lib-Dems are becoming unstable, and Labour is gaining strength. The ides of March could come yet!
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No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
No chance of that Lizzie until 2015, thanks to The Right Honourable David Cameron and his 5 year fixed term parliament. ::) One thing he has been quite clever about! :-\
Thanks to his mis-judgements, he is now becoming a liability to his own party and the rest of us. He is treading on thin ice and he could well fall through before the next General Election. The Party is not happy, there are growing voices of disdain, the Lib-Dems are becoming unstable, and Labour is gaining strength. The ides of March could come yet!
January would be good ;D ;D ;D :D
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No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
No chance of that Lizzie until 2015, thanks to The Right Honourable David Cameron and his 5 year fixed term parliament. ::) One thing he has been quite clever about! :-\
Thanks to his mis-judgements, he is now becoming a liability to his own party and the rest of us. He is treading on thin ice and he could well fall through before the next General Election. The Party is not happy, there are growing voices of disdain, the Lib-Dems are becoming unstable, and Labour is gaining strength. The ides of March could come yet!
VOTE UKIP :y The only problem I see is that will let Liebour in :( :( :(
What we need is a right if right Tory party :y :y
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5 or 6 years ago, i'd have agreed with most of that and joined in but sadly the job market and the world has changed ;)
I've just spent over 2 years on the dole (with not one penny in benefits because my missus works anyware between 30 and 50 hours a week to keep a roof over out heads), 12 months bankruptcy (because certain "merchant bankers" owd me money and quite simply decieded they would pay me when they felt like it. Because of this, and various wholesallers who saw the pound signs of "compound intrest / court fee's I was in so much finacial sh*t I ended going under and loseing everything.
And in the last 6 months, i've been told (off the record) that because i'm 47 next birthday, any money will go to people 20 years younger then me because they have a longer working life in front of them and accordingly will pay more stamp so i'm basicly on my own unless I can dig myself out of this shitehole >:(
As for me getting off my arse and getting a job, I left the forces 22 years ago. I worked for 2 firms for 18 months. (both have gone under so no references available) and I was self employed for 19 years before the shite hit the fan so again no references.
Welcome to the REAL WORLD ;)
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To start with the vast majority of the unemployed, including many who have succeeded in higher education and are well qualified, are desperate to work!
Where would they fit in to this grand scheme?
The long term ill, who for no fault of their own cannot work, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Those who have worked solidly most of their lives, but have been made redundant in their fifties, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Does the grand scheme intend to create mass employment for a decent wage anytime soon, at least for the younger generations?
Would you all be prepared to sacrifice your freedoms along with your dignity when you lose your job, are made redundant, fall ill, etc, etc, and support the grand scheme?
To achieve all the above would you like to vote in this grand scheme on the back of National Socialism?
If so let's have Hitler back to create jobs, develop industry, have full employment and build up the military to secure it all to achieve the grand scheme. Oh, and of course murder all disabled, all mentally ill, all those that do not fit in and meet the standards of the scheme, including those of impure race, or perceived enemies of the state who would not bow down to dictatorial rule.
The German Workers National Socialist Part achieved all that, effectively ending any form of welfare for anyone other than top state officials.
Communism also achieved a similar scheme under Stalin, although he actually murdered more people than Hitler ever did.
So before everyone jumps in on the current Coalition bandwagon of getting on top of "benefit scroungers", "those who have their curtains shut when the rest of us go to work",remember what is at stake, and how a state can alienate one group of people against the other very quickly.
I am a Conservative Socialist, and I am now becoming very ashamed of how Cameron & co. are acting against the disadvantaged, the VAST majority of whom are in circumstances they did not cause, and want to get out of. It was, I am ashamed to say, Maggie Thatcher who let British industry to fade, but, the saving fact is, AFTER previous Labour governments, with unions in charge, allowed it all to become a farce and a laughing stock of the World. I remember it well!
Now, in the 21st century let us not kick those that are already down who are we well know those who form the poorest part of our society, whilst the rich escape, laughing all the way to the bank, at the expense of the rest of us.
Revolution we do not need as they, ever since the French Revolution 0f 1789, ALWAYS deteriorate into mob rule with disastrous consequences.
No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
If you do not agree with what I say, well that is up to you. But it is what I believe after living these 59 years and operating in high business and seeing ugly situations, causing misery to others, but enacting by people with greed in their minds.
Man, and it is MAN, requires urgently strong control to stop man destroying fellow man, and allowing man to commit to constant warre as a natural condition. The Western Democratic World is now at a critical time. Decisions are required urgently.
Just remember though how previous empires, regimes, and societies have collapsed; they have eat themselves internally until they implode. Cameron has started us on that road and it is a dangerous one.
:y :y
Lizzie you are missing the point, this is a tongue in cheek but a fair way to deal with the scroungers, not the disabled or people who have contributed to our welfare systems and come upon hard times
It may be meant in tongue in cheek fashion, I would accept that, but the underlying message to all too many at the moment in the Conservative wing of the Coalition is "bash those on benefits" as they are an easy target that the press and general public love to seek blood from.
That policy covers up the Government's failure to grasp the billions being still wasted, and lost through non-collection of tax from the very rich / international companies, along with an inability to provide mass employment. So the propaganda by the Government continues to take everyone down another false road to cover their shortfalls, and not deal with the real issues.
I personally will not stand by and watch our political system kick the weak. Jokes about that, although well intentioned, just help the propaganda myth of the elite element of the Conservative Party. :y :y
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To start with the vast majority of the unemployed, including many who have succeeded in higher education and are well qualified, are desperate to work!
Where would they fit in to this grand scheme?
The long term ill, who for no fault of their own cannot work, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Those who have worked solidly most of their lives, but have been made redundant in their fifties, where do they fit in to this grand scheme?
Does the grand scheme intend to create mass employment for a decent wage anytime soon, at least for the younger generations?
Would you all be prepared to sacrifice your freedoms along with your dignity when you lose your job, are made redundant, fall ill, etc, etc, and support the grand scheme?
To achieve all the above would you like to vote in this grand scheme on the back of National Socialism?
If so let's have Hitler back to create jobs, develop industry, have full employment and build up the military to secure it all to achieve the grand scheme. Oh, and of course murder all disabled, all mentally ill, all those that do not fit in and meet the standards of the scheme, including those of impure race, or perceived enemies of the state who would not bow down to dictatorial rule.
The German Workers National Socialist Part achieved all that, effectively ending any form of welfare for anyone other than top state officials.
Communism also achieved a similar scheme under Stalin, although he actually murdered more people than Hitler ever did.
So before everyone jumps in on the current Coalition bandwagon of getting on top of "benefit scroungers", "those who have their curtains shut when the rest of us go to work",remember what is at stake, and how a state can alienate one group of people against the other very quickly.
I am a Conservative Socialist, and I am now becoming very ashamed of how Cameron & co. are acting against the disadvantaged, the VAST majority of whom are in circumstances they did not cause, and want to get out of. It was, I am ashamed to say, Maggie Thatcher who let British industry to fade, but, the saving fact is, AFTER previous Labour governments, with unions in charge, allowed it all to become a farce and a laughing stock of the World. I remember it well!
Now, in the 21st century let us not kick those that are already down who are we well know those who form the poorest part of our society, whilst the rich escape, laughing all the way to the bank, at the expense of the rest of us.
Revolution we do not need as they, ever since the French Revolution 0f 1789, ALWAYS deteriorate into mob rule with disastrous consequences.
No, we need a new Government, with a new direction to help all the people, especially the young, come through and succeed in life in all respects.
If you do not agree with what I say, well that is up to you. But it is what I believe after living these 59 years and operating in high business and seeing ugly situations, causing misery to others, but enacting by people with greed in their minds.
Man, and it is MAN, requires urgently strong control to stop man destroying fellow man, and allowing man to commit to constant warre as a natural condition. The Western Democratic World is now at a critical time. Decisions are required urgently.
Just remember though how previous empires, regimes, and societies have collapsed; they have eat themselves internally until they implode. Cameron has started us on that road and it is a dangerous one.
:y :y
Lizzie you are missing the point, this is a tongue in cheek but a fair way to deal with the scroungers, not the disabled or people who have contributed to our welfare systems and come upon hard times
It may be meant in tongue in cheek fashion, I would accept that, but the underlying message to all too many at the moment in the Conservative wing of the Coalition is "bash those on benefits" as they are an easy target that the press and general public love to seek blood from.
That policy covers up the Government's failure to grasp the billions being still wasted, and lost through non-collection of tax from the very rich / international companies, along with an inability to provide mass employment. So the propaganda by the Government continues to take everyone down another false road to cover their shortfalls, and not deal with the real issues.
I personally will not stand by and watch our political system kick the weak. Jokes about that, although well intentioned, just help the propaganda myth of the elite element of the Conservative Party. :y :y
Be fair, that does not come into effect till April next year (Welfare reform act 2012) and then we will see how true some of the OP comments are......Sadly those in genuine need are going to be hit with the same cuts and changes as those who are not...........Most people, and I include myself till a few days ago, do not realise how swathing these cuts and changes are going to be........ :-\ :-\
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what about me im 52 i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist >:( >:(
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what about me im 52 i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist >:( >:(
Not True, YOU have contributed paid your dues and deserve a decent standard of living in your time of need. :y :y
Perhaps you'd get that if it wasn't for the single mothers with 5 kids to seperate fathers living a life of benefit luxury ( womb for benefits) rather than work or the immigrants coming here to milk our system , the NHS tourists or sending child benefit to Poland for polish workers here etc etc etc. This country is in a mess and needs to stop waste not punish our pensioners or the needy who have contributed.
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The welfare/client state is out of control.Labour used it to create a quasi socialist state whereby people were brainwashed into believing that they didnt have to work if they didnt want to and they didnt have to take any responsibilty for themselves or their offspring.The state would look after evertything,as long as people voted the right party back in every five years or so.It is a system of redistribution of wealth which dare not speak its name.
The founding fathers of the welfare state warned against making it too easy and comfortable for people to live off state benefits and thus removing the incentive to work for a living.
The current version of the welfare state created by McRuin is a perversion of what it once was and still should be.It should be to prevent starvation,homelessness and freezing in winter.Anything over and above that should only be available through gainful employment.
It needs to be completely dismantled and replaced by a simple system which prevents starvation,loss of home etc. for people who are willing to work but cant through no fault of their own,or cannot due to genuine serious health problems
Anyone outside that group need to learn fast that they have no entitlement to live off the state as the state doesnt actually have any money of its own.Then,incentive can return to the system.
There are many people recieving benefits who shouldnt be,and Im sure almost all of us know some of them.There used to be stigma attached to belonging to this group,but some wear it as a badge of honour nowadays.The country and we taxpayers can no longer afford to tolerate it. A politician who will reverse the trend will get my vote every day of the week.
None of the major parties wil ever have the balls to do it imo. And the people with the sense of entitlement will almost certainly give us either a Labour or Lib/Lab coalition Govt at the next election.
Last one to leave please switch the light off. Barring a miracle,were finished Im afraid.
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The welfare/client state is out of control.Labour used it to create a quasi socialist state whereby people were brainwashed into believing that they didnt have to work if they didnt want to and they didnt have to take any responsibilty for themselves or their offspring.The state would look after evertything,as long as people voted the right party back in every five years or so.It is a system of redistribution of wealth which dare not speak its name.
The founding fathers of the welfare state warned against making it too easy and comfortable for people to live off state benefits and thus removing the incentive to work for a living.
The current version of the welfare state created by McRuin is a perversion of what it once was and still should be.It should be to prevent starvation,homelessness and freezing in winter.Anything over and above that should only be available through gainful employment.
It needs to be completely dismantled and replaced by a simple system which prevents starvation,loss of home etc. for people who are willing to work but cant through no fault of their own,or cannot due to genuine serious health problems
Anyone outside that group need to learn fast that they have no entitlement to live off the state as the state doesnt actually have any money of its own.Then,incentive can return to the system.
There are many people recieving benefits who shouldnt be,and Im sure almost all of us know some of them.There used to be stigma attached to belonging to this group,but some wear it as a badge of honour nowadays.The country and we taxpayers can no longer afford to tolerate it. A politician who will reverse the trend will get my vote every day of the week.
None of the major parties wil ever have the balls to do it imo. And the people with the sense of entitlement will almost certainly give us either a Labour or Lib/Lab coalition Govt at the next election.
Last one to leave please switch the light off. Barring a miracle,were finished Im afraid.
Well Put :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
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The welfare/client state is out of control.Labour used it to create a quasi socialist state whereby people were brainwashed into believing that they didnt have to work if they didnt want to and they didnt have to take any responsibilty for themselves or their offspring.The state would look after evertything,as long as people voted the right party back in every five years or so.It is a system of redistribution of wealth which dare not speak its name.
The founding fathers of the welfare state warned against making it too easy and comfortable for people to live off state benefits and thus removing the incentive to work for a living.
The current version of the welfare state created by McRuin is a perversion of what it once was and still should be.It should be to prevent starvation,homelessness and freezing in winter.Anything over and above that should only be available through gainful employment.
It needs to be completely dismantled and replaced by a simple system which prevents starvation,loss of home etc. for people who are willing to work but cant through no fault of their own,or cannot due to genuine serious health problems
Anyone outside that group need to learn fast that they have no entitlement to live off the state as the state doesnt actually have any money of its own.Then,incentive can return to the system.
There are many people recieving benefits who shouldnt be,and Im sure almost all of us know some of them.There used to be stigma attached to belonging to this group,but some wear it as a badge of honour nowadays.The country and we taxpayers can no longer afford to tolerate it. A politician who will reverse the trend will get my vote every day of the week.
None of the major parties wil ever have the balls to do it imo. And the people with the sense of entitlement will almost certainly give us either a Labour or Lib/Lab coalition Govt at the next election.
Last one to leave please switch the light off. Barring a miracle,were finished Im afraid.
Well Put :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
+2 :y :y :y :y :y :y
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if i make it to 65 whicn is very doutful i can come off benifits because my pension into whitch ive paid 15% + of all my earnings since ive left school should [i hope] pay me a decent return so i can give up the esa &dla and live nice ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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I should add.Imo people who are retired,who have lost their job through no fault of their own or have really serious health issues should be looked after as well as we can reasonably afford to look after them.That is a sign of a civilised compassionate country.One of the reasons we cannot currently afford to do this is due to paying lots of money to people who shouldnt be recieving any money at all,both in the U.K and in the wider world.
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what about me im 52 i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist >:( >:(
well said :y :y :y i would like a job , but no one wi;; give me a job , not when you cant bend down and carry anything. so i am on the scrap heap as well :y
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when I read this thread a question comes to my mind..
why none of you ask for the money which fly to caymans and other places which dont pay tax to UK.. and most of this money is yours which is claimed to be evaporated or taken by some hocus pocus methods.. :-\
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as usual workers, non workers, jobless eat each other while some live in real luxury :(
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I should add.Imo people who are retired,who have lost their job through no fault of their own or have really serious health issues should be looked after as well as we can reasonably afford to look after them.That is a sign of a civilised compassionate country.One of the reasons we cannot currently afford to do this is due to paying lots of money to people who shouldnt be recieving any money at all,both in the U.K and in the wider world.
I fully agree, unfortunately, those currently on these benefits are in for a big shock once the benefit reform starts to roll out from April 2013............ >:( >:( >:(
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and I must add, none of those parties can solve your problems in that system.. even if they want to..
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I SO MUCH want to add to this thread but sadly wont for fear of being misread/misinterpreted :(
Suffice to say that the philrich household fully expects to find itself in deep and irreversible sh*t when the Welfare Reforms bite in earnest and there's not a damn thing I can do to get us out of it other than die, and I can seriously say that option has been fully researched by me & discarded as I would be leaving swmbo in an even worse mess! >:(
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I should add.Imo people who are retired,who have lost their job through no fault of their own or have really serious health issues should be looked after as well as we can reasonably afford to look after them.That is a sign of a civilised compassionate country.One of the reasons we cannot currently afford to do this is due to paying lots of money to people who shouldnt be recieving any money at all,both in the U.K and in the wider world.
I fully agree, unfortunately, those currently on these benefits are in for a big shock once the benefit reform starts to roll out from April 2013............ >:( >:( >:(
vamps its already started they took 14% of my esa 1/12/2012 because i cant work and have to spend3 days aweek pluged in to a machine
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I SO MUCH want to add to this thread but sadly wont for fear of being misread/misinterpreted :(
Suffice to say that the philrich household fully expects to find itself in deep and irreversible sh*t when the Welfare Reforms bite in earnest and there's not a damn thing I can do to get us out of it other than die, and I can seriously say that option has been fully researched by me & discarded as I would be leaving swmbo in an even worse mess! >:(
same here
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I SO MUCH want to add to this thread but sadly wont for fear of being misread/misinterpreted :(
Suffice to say that the philrich household fully expects to find itself in deep and irreversible sh*t when the Welfare Reforms bite in earnest and there's not a damn thing I can do to get us out of it other than die, and I can seriously say that option has been fully researched by me & discarded as I would be leaving swmbo in an even worse mess! >:(
same here
+1 :y
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The problem of having a universal benefits and a free health system is that they get abused. The womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it as a lifestyle choice, not only take money away from those that should get it but also stigmatize everybody that gets benefits. Those that use it as a lifestyle choice are so common, that I'm sure we all know people that do it. I know I do.
To me there is a very easy way to solve the womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it at a lifestyle choice, that would help their self-esteem, help them get a job, and get used to a work like routine. Yes, it would cost a bit of money but I think the benefits would be enormous.
This very simple idea is a job club. Everybody that is fit for work, spends 40 hours a week, learning how to write a CV, interview techniques and applying for jobs. If they need to improve basic skill they would also go to college part time for this. This is your full time job until you get a job. In return you get your benefits, if you don't agree or don't turn up then no benefits. Now if you had to spend 40 hours a week for 48 weeks of the year doing this for £67 a week or have a job that pays £250, the job starts to become a very attractive option, The new Universal benefits is being setup, so you will always be better off in work, so even womb for welfare women will be better off with a job. When a woman has a child, she has to join the program at 6 months, if she wants benefits, with the child going to a nursery.
If also de-stigmatizes those out of work as they have a full time job looking for another job, so they are not idle, benefit scroungers. There is tremendous opportunity to motivate people with it by celebrated as a real success every time somebody gets a job. I suspect this would greatly reduce our youth unemployment as many of them get demotivated when they can't get a job and also struggle with their presentation skills and what will be required of them at work compared to many people that get UK jobs from Europe.
Welfare can then be used much more effectively for those that can't work through illness and disability, which any decent society should support such unfortunate people to the best of their ability.
What do you think?
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none of this will really matter after the realisation of the depopulation plan
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Sounds like a good plant to me Rod.Although the Limpdems Liebore and the lefty media would strangle it at birth if not sooner.
Lets not forget that they are fighting tooth and nail against a proposal to limit households to a level of benefit which would require a salary of almost £40,000 per year if it was paid by an employer.They say it is cruel and will push children into extreme poverty and destroy their future potential.
These are very cynical people who rely on the continuation of the client state for their future careers. ;)
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none of this will really matter after the realisation of the depopulation plan
Ever increasing populous and dwindling resources. How will the elite ensure the continuation of their position ?
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The problem of having a universal benefits and a free health system is that they get abused. The womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it as a lifestyle choice, not only take money away from those that should get it but also stigmatize everybody that gets benefits. Those that use it as a lifestyle choice are so common, that I'm sure we all know people that do it. I know I do.
To me there is a very easy way to solve the womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it at a lifestyle choice, that would help their self-esteem, help them get a job, and get used to a work like routine. Yes, it would cost a bit of money but I think the benefits would be enormous.
This very simple idea is a job club. Everybody that is fit for work, spends 40 hours a week, learning how to write a CV, interview techniques and applying for jobs. If they need to improve basic skill they would also go to college part time for this. This is your full time job until you get a job. In return you get your benefits, if you don't agree or don't turn up then no benefits. Now if you had to spend 40 hours a week for 48 weeks of the year doing this for £67 a week or have a job that pays £250, the job starts to become a very attractive option, The new Universal benefits is being setup, so you will always be better off in work, so even womb for welfare women will be better off with a job. When a woman has a child, she has to join the program at 6 months, if she wants benefits, with the child going to a nursery.
If also de-stigmatizes those out of work as they have a full time job looking for another job, so they are not idle, benefit scroungers. There is tremendous opportunity to motivate people with it by celebrated as a real success every time somebody gets a job. I suspect this would greatly reduce our youth unemployment as many of them get demotivated when they can't get a job and also struggle with their presentation skills and what will be required of them at work compared to many people that get UK jobs from Europe.
Welfare can then be used much more effectively for those that can't work through illness and disability, which any decent society should support such unfortunate people to the best of their ability.
What do you think?
good plan Rods.. :) :y :y :y seems like you grasped the idea of socialism better than most :) :) :) :y :y :y
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none of this will really matter after the realisation of the depopulation plan
Ever increasing populous and dwindling resources. How will the elite ensure the continuation of their position ?
Oh I'm sure I'll manage somehow ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Back before the government insisted that benefits had to be paid into an account, I used to queue in postoffices to post my shite, stuck in queues (why do the great unwashed, and old people, go to the PO at lunchtime, when they have all day?), and used to watch the Bletchley Retards pick up their giro, then head straight to the lottery counter and buy their fags and lotto tickets, often £30+ (remember this was a good few years ago). I was in full time employment and couldn't afford £30 on such shite.
We have an ex-family member who did the council-house mentality of leaving school, getting up the duff, getting a council house and a lifetime of benefits. When she was moaning about benefits being cut, and how hard it was going to be for her, I did suggest she looks at employment, as her brat was (then) about 10. Her answer, quoted, "I don't see why I should have to work"
I applaud the government's plan to keep the lazy's benefits way below inflation, and pensions at inflation (ish). Its not perfect, and some who genuinely do deserve, will fall the wrong side of the rises. BUT its a step in the right direction.
Its probably a good job I'll never get voted in.
The trouble is, the politicians have to pander to the benefit scroungers, as these are now a significant proportion of the voting population. Obviously, there is a simple solution to that problem.
As to jobs, I think we in the UK have a problem in that we do not prepare our youth for work, with too much emphasis on getting the school's stats up. And we have devalued the degree so much that having one does not guarantee you can walk into a high paid job, but nobody has told the students. The vast majority of graduate interviewees that are put in front of me for job interviews are, basically, unemployable, yet think they have a right to the job on offer, and because they can run the setup wizard on their home broadband router, makes them a networking god.
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A couple aged about 25 rented a house from me last year. Neither of them worked. She had chronic asthma and he'd just had an operation on his knee and lost his job as a chef, as he wouldn't be able stand for long periods for about 3 or 4 months while it healed. They seemed nice enough, if a bit down on their luck. They had a solid family background with professional parents and he assured me that as soon as he was able he'd be back in work! ::)
A year on neither are still working. Despite her chronic asthma she's often stood in the doorway in her dressing gown smoking and when I inspected the property recently it was thick in dust.. ::) He hasn't gone back to work even though his knee is now OK. :-\ I think basically they've realised that they can have a reasonable standard of living on benefits, so why bother..... :-\
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what about me im 52 i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist >:( >:(
Exactly! :y :y :y
Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48. I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week. Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others. Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!
That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes. In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".
Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.
As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other. ;)
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what about me im 52 i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist >:( >:(
Exactly! :y :y :y
Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48. I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week. Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others. Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!
That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes. In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".
Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.
As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other. ;)
I agree with what you say there, but hasnt there always been a divide between groups of people ( ie upper class, middle class, working class )
If through the years you have invested in the state, ie tax and ni, then you surely have the right to benefits when needed.
What i dont like is the people that have never put anything into this country, but expect everything out of it !
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what about me im 52 i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist >:( >:(
Exactly! :y :y :y
Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48. I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week. Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others. Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!
That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes. In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".
Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.
As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other. ;)
I agree with what you say there, but hasnt there always been a divide between groups of people ( ie upper class, middle class, working class )
If through the years you have invested in the state, ie tax and ni, then you surely have the right to benefits when needed.
What i dont like is the people that have never put anything into this country, but expect everything out of it !
Exactly......sort this out and you will be getting somewhere :y
The state has more information on us than we will ever believe, so there must be ways of splitting the worthy from the unworthy.
If there are no jobs to be had, people have to be supported.
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what about me im 52 i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist >:( >:(
Exactly! :y :y :y
Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48. I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week. Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others. Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!
That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes. In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".
Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.
As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other. ;)
I agree with what you say there, but hasnt there always been a divide between groups of people ( ie upper class, middle class, working class )
If through the years you have invested in the state, ie tax and ni, then you surely have the right to benefits when needed.
What i dont like is the people that have never put anything into this country, but expect everything out of it !
Yes, there has been that divide and it is about time we all worked on trying to eradicate it. We are all equal in the eyes of God (or whoever/whatever people believe in) and we should shape our 21st century lives accordingly
I fully agree though that there are people who scrounge off others, some with benefits, others through crime or both. But they are a relatively small minority so the whole of society should not be judged on that basis. As said, we all know of some people in our local communities that fit into that bracket, but the whole of government policy should never be based on what a minority do.
It would be more beneficial for all if the super rich and international companies were not allowed to "scrounge", as surely they are on the back of you and me, as much as 'Jim' down the road who, is one of the few, lives on benefits but does not want to work. The latter involves pounds, the former often involves millions of pounds. The common factor that links both is of course that they are operating within the law. The real scroungers are those who operate outside the law and rob us all of billions through their criminal ways, and they are the ones any government of worth should target. Oh, but of course police numbers have been cut, so billions of criminal activity goes unpunished, untaxed, and taken away from public coffers! ::) ::) They are also a harder target for governments to go for, than the easy ones of Jim down the road, or Mary who has not paid her TV license. Fairness does not come into the real World, and politicians play on that.
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Unfortunately, its a vicious circle of trying to justify and not justifying....
For example....stop 'Ms womb for benefits' payouts, and the cry goes out.....the children will suffer. So what do you do with the children !!!!!!!! Take them away ?????? Opens up all sorts of issues.
As I think cem said earlier....its where our money goes from the UK pot. Offshore tax havens, etc, Overseas aid, ludicrous projects like HS2 which will cost billions more than the government have stated. I once had a high paid job, where I was responsible for the wages/lifestyles of my employees....and it has to be said, when you have it, you ain't worried about those who haven't !!!!!!!!
Surely, instead of moaning about pensioners, if those who have contributed all their lives to the system, had a decent return, they would make way for younger people to get on the ladder to pay their way with taxes and NI. Again the vicious circle criteria !! If governments spent our money where it is needed, and I mean at home, and wisely, then the present mess would not be as bad.
As another example of costs....my mother is 92. She was in the forces in the war, serving in London all through the blitz....she worked all the time we were kids up until her later years. She (and my late father, and stepfather) paid in all their lives, fought for this country.....now we want to put my mother in a respite home to give us a break, and its costing £3,330.00 for 4 weeks....no state help at all.
Is it any wonder that my mother is bitter about immigrants, benefit scroungers, nhs tourists and the like.....she paid her way :(
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My problem with all of this is that I personally know two people (one is a close relative) who bleed the system dry. One has only had one job that I know of for a few weeks in her teens (now late 50s). Zero earned income, yet satellite subscription TV, smokes, rent all paid for etc, you get the picture. This tends to influence my opinion.
I fully accept that there are many "on benefits" who genuinely need this help. But just how does one sort the chaff from the wheat ? The undeserving really know how to work the system and it's hard to sift them out.
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Unfortunately, its a vicious circle of trying to justify and not justifying....
For example....stop 'Ms womb for benefits' payouts, and the cry goes out.....the children will suffer. So what do you do with the children !!!!!!!! Take them away ?????? Opens up all sorts of issues.
As I think cem said earlier....its where our money goes from the UK pot. Offshore tax havens, etc, Overseas aid, ludicrous projects like HS2 which will cost billions more than the government have stated. I once had a high paid job, where I was responsible for the wages/lifestyles of my employees....and it has to be said, when you have it, you ain't worried about those who haven't !!!!!!!!
Surely, instead of moaning about pensioners, if those who have contributed all their lives to the system, had a decent return, they would make way for younger people to get on the ladder to pay their way with taxes and NI. Again the vicious circle criteria !! If governments spent our money where it is needed, and I mean at home, and wisely, then the present mess would not be as bad.
As another example of costs....my mother is 92. She was in the forces in the war, serving in London all through the blitz....she worked all the time we were kids up until her later years. She (and my late father, and stepfather) paid in all their lives, fought for this country.....now we want to put my mother in a respite home to give us a break, and its costing £3,330.00 for 4 weeks....no state help at all.
Is it any wonder that my mother is bitter about immigrants, benefit scroungers, nhs tourists and the like.....she paid her way :(
This is exactly why this country makes me sick to the stomach, the priorities are all wrong. >:( >:( >:( your mum deserves the best but can't get it because of the handouts to immigrants, benefit wombs, foreign aid, crackpot funding of schemes for global warming. We should and must put our own first, those who have contributed and worked hard, even more so risked their lives to make this country what it is.
What comes first, the needs of your mum and the genuinely needy, or the single mother of five with three different fathers never worked a day in her life getting everything paid for, living the live of riley at our expense. ???
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"60% of those recieving benifit do work".And that is the fact that gives away the agenda.On the one hand people in work are taxed overall approx 50% of their income.So the state takes around half of the money they have earned and then possibly give some of it back with the other hand if they meet certain criteria set by the state. We live in a thinly disguised socialist society,and we need a leader of the Thatcher mould who has the balls to dismantle it.
If those people in work who recieve benefits werent vastly overtaxed in the first place they wouldnt need to be in receipt of benefits from the state.But then they wouldnt feel obliged to vote for the party which hands out the benefits and be brainwashed into thinking they cant survive without the support of the state.
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Thing is Dave.....you are correct in your statement :y
But....and a big but....is one part of it that says 'fought for what this country is today'
What is this country today, mate...in my opinion its a ****hole.....and I hate to think that my grandfather who was shot (but survived) and my father and mother fought to make this country a ****hole
Does that make sense ???
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Thing is Dave.....you are correct in your statement :y
But....and a big but....is one part of it that says 'fought for what this country is today'
What is this country today, mate...in my opinion its a ****hole.....and I hate to think that my grandfather who was shot (but survived) and my father and mother fought to make this country a ****hole
Does that make sense ???
I know exactly what you mean, our grand parents and parents must be turning in their graves or those still with us wondering what was the point.
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"60% of those recieving benifit do work".And that is the fact that gives away the agenda.On the one hand people in work are taxed overall approx 50% of their income.So the state takes around half of the money they have earned and then possibly give some of it back with the other hand if they meet certain criteria set by the state. We live in a thinly disguised socialist society,and we need a leader of the Thatcher mould who has the balls to dismantle it.
If those people in work who recieve benefits werent vastly overtaxed in the first place they wouldnt need to be in receipt of benefits from the state.But then they wouldnt feel obliged to vote for the party which hands out the benefits and be brainwashed into thinking they cant survive without the support of the state.
Sorry Albitz, but how do you work that one out. If you mean that a worker is taxed at the standard rate of 20% up to £34,370 (or at 40% if earning between £34,371 to £150,000) then decides to purchase items that attract a further 30% of tax for standard rate earners then that is up to the individual if they want to buy the "luxuries". But remembering food is zero rated for VAT, it is an exaggeration to talk of "50% tax" on what you earn. The state has to raise income to support all the public services, so the more you spend, the more you pay. Is that not fair? I thought so when I was on a high rate of tax, which I did not begrudge. If you pay high taxes it means you are doing nicely thank you.
The poor in our society do not have that luxury, with many on a low income. But if anyone is aggrieved by the help they get from the state, offer your job to them and pay less tax, and instead take their job in replacement. Then see how you survive on a low income. But of course no one would do that, but everyone complains about their lot.
The world is not fair, never will be without a dramatic change of human nature, so live with it. Pay your taxes and thank your lucky stars you are in work, well, and able to buy a few luxuries that you will pay tax on. Without that we have no society. ;)
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. . . . . ,and we need a leader of the Thatcher mould who has the balls to dismantle it.
Ooooooooooooooooo he said the " T " word, naughty boy.
Love her or hate her she did what she thought was right without too much consideration for popular opinion, and also what would now be called Political Correcteness. The result . . . she won elections. Ok she lost it a bit later on, but . . .
Today's major party leaders are all too afraid to really nail their flag to the mast one way or the other.
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(http://www.oswaldrepents.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/burns-osborne.jpg)
The one on the left is more trustworthy.... ;)
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(http://www.oswaldrepents.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/burns-osborne.jpg)
The one on the left is more trustworthy.... ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
Good find!! ;)
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I thank you.. :y
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"60% of those recieving benifit do work".And that is the fact that gives away the agenda.On the one hand people in work are taxed overall approx 50% of their income.So the state takes around half of the money they have earned and then possibly give some of it back with the other hand if they meet certain criteria set by the state. We live in a thinly disguised socialist society,and we need a leader of the Thatcher mould who has the balls to dismantle it.
If those people in work who recieve benefits werent vastly overtaxed in the first place they wouldnt need to be in receipt of benefits from the state.But then they wouldnt feel obliged to vote for the party which hands out the benefits and be brainwashed into thinking they cant survive without the support of the state.
Sorry Albitz, but how do you work that one out. If you mean that a worker is taxed at the standard rate of 20% up to £34,370 (or at 40% if earning between £34,371 to £150,000) then decides to purchase items that attract a further 30% of tax for standard rate earners then that is up to the individual if they want to buy the "luxuries". But remembering food is zero rated for VAT, it is an exaggeration to talk of "50% tax" on what you earn. The state has to raise income to support all the public services, so the more you spend, the more you pay. Is that not fair? I thought so when I was on a high rate of tax, which I did not begrudge. If you pay high taxes it means you are doing nicely thank you.
The poor in our society do not have that luxury, with many on a low income. But if anyone is aggrieved by the help they get from the state, offer your job to them and pay less tax, and instead take their job in replacement. Then see how you survive on a low income. But of course no one would do that, but everyone complains about their lot.
The world is not fair, never will be without a dramatic change of human nature, so live with it. Pay your taxes and thank your lucky stars you are in work, well, and able to buy a few luxuries that you will pay tax on. Without that we have no society. ;)
The average person on the average wage will pay approx. 50% of their earnings in one form of taxation or another.Thats a fact.Some of these taxes could be avoided by changing spending patterns,but in the main they cant.The state does not have to raise all this revenue to fund all the the services it funds.They choose to do so,when they could choose to reduce or abolish them. And imo many of them should be reduced or abolished.
Most of the working people who recieve benefits happen to earn much more than I do.I earn a wage way below the national average and not much above minimum wage.Those people have children of school age and I dont,so they recieve benefits which Im not entitled to.Many of the "working poor" you speak of will almost certainly earn more than I do. ;)
My beliefs and principles dont change according to my circumstances,but perhaps Im just a mug in todays society ?
My household would almost certainly be entitled to benefits due to health problems,particularily if we were to lay it on a bit thick and bend the truth just a little bit,but we wouldnt consider doing so.It would be hypocritical as we believe much of the so called welfare state should be dismantled.
I have also come close to coming round to TB,s way of thinking regarding the NHS after recent exeriences.Particularily those which have happened in the last 24 hours.
I wont go into detail for fear of getting banned/arrested/starting an OOF riot,but the idea of shutting it down completely seems to be a very attractive one at this moment in time.
At least do that,then re employ the useful caring staff on new contracts and ban al the others from any role above picking up litter from the car parks.No union recognition,and deportation for any agitators who try to overturn that.
Its as well I was at work last night and couldnt be at the hospital concerned as I am certain I would be in a cell tonight and at least one nurse (the male one) would be in ICU. >:( >:( >:( >:(
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"60% of those recieving benifit do work".And that is the fact that gives away the agenda.On the one hand people in work are taxed overall approx 50% of their income.So the state takes around half of the money they have earned and then possibly give some of it back with the other hand if they meet certain criteria set by the state. We live in a thinly disguised socialist society,and we need a leader of the Thatcher mould who has the balls to dismantle it.
If those people in work who recieve benefits werent vastly overtaxed in the first place they wouldnt need to be in receipt of benefits from the state.But then they wouldnt feel obliged to vote for the party which hands out the benefits and be brainwashed into thinking they cant survive without the support of the state.
Sorry Albitz, but how do you work that one out. If you mean that a worker is taxed at the standard rate of 20% up to £34,370 (or at 40% if earning between £34,371 to £150,000) then decides to purchase items that attract a further 30% of tax for standard rate earners then that is up to the individual if they want to buy the "luxuries". But remembering food is zero rated for VAT, it is an exaggeration to talk of "50% tax" on what you earn. The state has to raise income to support all the public services, so the more you spend, the more you pay. Is that not fair? I thought so when I was on a high rate of tax, which I did not begrudge. If you pay high taxes it means you are doing nicely thank you.
The poor in our society do not have that luxury, with many on a low income. But if anyone is aggrieved by the help they get from the state, offer your job to them and pay less tax, and instead take their job in replacement. Then see how you survive on a low income. But of course no one would do that, but everyone complains about their lot.
The world is not fair, never will be without a dramatic change of human nature, so live with it. Pay your taxes and thank your lucky stars you are in work, well, and able to buy a few luxuries that you will pay tax on. Without that we have no society. ;)
The average person on the average wage will pay approx. 50% of their earnings in one form of taxation or another.Thats a fact.Some of these taxes could be avoided by changing spending patterns,but in the main they cant.The state does not have to raise all this revenue to fund all the the services it funds.They choose to do so,when they could choose to reduce or abolish them. And imo many of them should be reduced or abolished.
Most of the working people who recieve benefits happen to earn much more than I do.I earn a wage way below the national average and not much above minimum wage.Those people have children of school age and I dont,so they recieve benefits which Im not entitled to.Many of the "working poor" you speak of will almost certainly earn more than I do. ;)
My beliefs and principles dont change according to my circumstances,but perhaps Im just a mug in todays society ?
My household would almost certainly be entitled to benefits due to health problems,particularily if we were to lay it on a bit thick and bend the truth just a little bit,but we wouldnt consider doing so.It would be hypocritical as we believe much of the so called welfare state should be dismantled.
I have also come close to coming round to TB,s way of thinking regarding the NHS after recent exeriences.Particularily those which have happened in the last 24 hours.
I wont go into detail for fear of getting banned/arrested/starting an OOF riot,but the idea of shutting it down completely seems to be a very attractive one at this moment in time.
At least do that,then re employ the useful caring staff on new contracts and ban al the others from any role above picking up litter from the car parks.No union recognition,and deportation for any agitators who try to overturn that.
Its as well I was at work last night and couldnt be at the hospital concerned as I am certain I would be in a cell tonight and at least one nurse (the male one) would be in ICU. >:( >:( >:( >:(
sorry to hear that Albert :(
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Sorry to hear about your problems Albs.
You are correct on the 50%, as employer NI should be included as it is your labour that generates the company the money to pay this. About 18 months ago I did a calculation for Mr/Ms Average Single who were paid an average wage, did annual average mileage in an average car, had average house rental / mortgage cost, who had average council tax etc etc and their tax was about 48.5%. Now if they were a smoker, heavy drinker or used an above average amount of fuel this took them over the 50%. If you are in the 40% tax band you pay well over 50%. The exception to this is families who receive benefits and like you say in many cases they are taxed and then have to claim them back. Our benefits system is a pain for employees on varying commission and the self employed as their circumstances are constantly changing, so they have to spend hours reporting their changing circumstances.
The massively rising cost of the benefits system have been due to McRuin changing the definition of poverty to "relative poverty" as this is a percentage of the average wage, it will always exist, as Labour clients so this will always be an expensive burden. In the UK he changed the system so much that families regardless of income are guaranteed a comfortable living whether they work for it or not. Mass migration has also been a big social cost particularly on the NHS and with pensions. With rising taxation for the rich many have gone elsewhere, the latest being the founder of Money Supermarket to the Channel Islands. The bulk is paid by the well paid middle classes and they are now the biggest group emigrating from the UK.
As somebody said recently we are now at the more puppies than teats stage. As the ConLibLab will not tackle the deficit in any sensible way by rebalancing the economy, this country will default for the first time since 1600 by 2018 at the latest and it maybe as early as 2015.
Democracy will probably disappear at this point. The Trokia will sort the mess out but the price will be becoming a province of the EU, with their 28 member Politburo controlling all our laws and budgets with the Euro as our currency.
I personally can't see a way back, which is why I'm leaving the UK.
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Two
articles bits of twaddle I read this morning that made me think of this thread:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246192/We-risk-like-Norway-quit-EU-says-Cameron--PM-warns-Britain-unable-influence-laws.html
Snippet: "We risk being like Norway if we quit EU, says Cameron". So, er, one of the richest countries per capita in the world with fantastic universal healthcare, a great education system and (occasional nutters aside) low crime rates and safety? Sign me up! Although you'll all have to stop drinking as alcohol is insanely expensive in Norway, on the up side cars attract 100% tax so the value of our clapped out old Omegas will go up significantly.
And this one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246104/Unemployed-single-mother-benefits-spends-2-000-Christmas-20-presents-children.html
Snippet: Unemployed single mother on benefits spends £2k on Christmas presents and claims she is better off on benefits and would not get a job unless she could continue her luxury lifestyle, which includes designer outfits, holidays abroad, clubbing, lunches out and expensive gifts for her daughters Zelekah, two, and Zakirah, one.
Hope you've all got your blood pressure pills to hand ;)
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Yeah, but the beer's really expensive in Norway. I think I'd have to up my home brew production significantly. ;D
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Public execution for suppliers. Enforced treatmant programmes for users. Long sentences for users who still use after finishing treatment. Seemples.
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Two articles bits of twaddle I read this morning that made me think of this thread:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246192/We-risk-like-Norway-quit-EU-says-Cameron--PM-warns-Britain-unable-influence-laws.html
Snippet: "We risk being like Norway if we quit EU, says Cameron". So, er, one of the richest countries per capita in the world with fantastic universal healthcare, a great education system and (occasional nutters aside) low crime rates and safety? Sign me up! Although you'll all have to stop drinking as alcohol is insanely expensive in Norway, on the up side cars attract 100% tax so the value of our clapped out old Omegas will go up significantly.
And this one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246104/Unemployed-single-mother-benefits-spends-2-000-Christmas-20-presents-children.html
Snippet: Unemployed single mother on benefits spends £2k on Christmas presents and claims she is better off on benefits and would not get a job unless she could continue her luxury lifestyle, which includes designer outfits, holidays abroad, clubbing, lunches out and expensive gifts for her daughters Zelekah, two, and Zakirah, one.
Hope you've all got your blood pressure pills to hand ;)
I am sure you have put this piece in from the 'wonderful' MailOnline with tongue in cheek!
I struggled once to bring up a family with all the costs on well over a salary of twice (in the 1980's) the "ladies" benefits. If anyone believes you can properly cloth, and feed two children, plus yourself with heating bills etc on £15K and then can afford "luxury" holidays abroad, going constantly to clubs, buying designer clothes and fabulous jewellery, with so much cash left over she can buy her children 20 expensive presents each, is frankly living in cuckoo land!
Remember also that with her costs set to increase dramatically as the kids get older, if she has any spare cash then it will soon be used up.
No, this is yet another example of "shock" journalism feeding on the current theme of jealousy, thinking others are getting more than you are, and especially the witch hunt on "benefit cheats" that actually represent a tiny percentage of all claimants.
We have again a sample of one section of the public being turned against another. I warn again about the dangers, very real dangers for our society of this trend. :(
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I am sure you have put this piece in from the 'wonderful' MailOnline with tongue in cheek!
There's really no other reason to link to the MailOnline, is there? :) But you're right, hence the winking smiley at the very end of my post :y
There's a small chance I may have been stirring with my giant wooden spoon..
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4069/4554504714_450358d2d6_z.jpg)
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Yeah, but the beer's really expensive in Norway. I think I'd have to up my home brew production significantly. ;D
;D Beer, fast food, cars, and anything else 'luxury' in fact.. lovely country, though :y
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I am sure you have put this piece in from the 'wonderful' MailOnline with tongue in cheek!
There's really no other reason to link to the MailOnline, is there? :) But you're right, hence the winking smiley at the very end of my post :y
There's a small chance I may have been stirring with my giant wooden spoon..
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4069/4554504714_450358d2d6_z.jpg)
I like it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
I often try to do that, but I frequently fail to do so! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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I would prefer to be like Norway than the shit hole this country is becoming. :y
The bitch next door but one has five kids, how much is she getting for opening her crack. ::) >:( >:( >:( >:(
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I would prefer to be like Norway than the shit hole this country is becoming. :y
The bitch next door but one has five kids, how much is she getting for opening her crack. ::) >:( >:( >:( >:(
Go and ask her Cleggy, she may have a special offer on at the moment! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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I would prefer to be like Norway than the shit hole this country is becoming. :y
The bitch next door but one has five kids, how much is she getting for opening her crack. ::) >:( >:( >:( >:(
Go and ask her Cleggy, she may have a special offer on at the moment! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Actually Lizzie, she has a body to die for, perhaps I won't mention the plumbing :D ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I would prefer to be like Norway than the shit hole this country is becoming. :y
The bitch next door but one has five kids, how much is she getting for opening her crack. ::) >:( >:( >:( >:(
Go and ask her Cleggy, she may have a special offer on at the moment! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Actually Lizzie, she has a body to die for, perhaps I won't mention the plumbing :D ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I suspected that Cleggy as she has five kids! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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I would prefer to be like Norway than the shit hole this country is becoming. :y
The bitch next door but one has five kids, how much is she getting for opening her crack. ::) >:( >:( >:( >:(
Go and ask her Cleggy, she may have a special offer on at the moment! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Actually Lizzie, she has a body to die for, perhaps I won't mention the plumbing :D ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I suspected that Cleggy as she has five kids! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
I can wiggle my ears ::) ::) :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D