Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: manolo on 18 December 2012, 14:58:37
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First I have misfire on 1-3-5 and unstable engine in idle.
then I receive ignition coil for 1-3-5 bank from guy from forum (not new, he says that he have some problems but he can drive with)
after replace I can't start engine, looks like there is no spark on booth ignitions coil. Is it possible if coil 1-3-5 is fail that 2-4-6 also don't work?
I reconnect battery, and now when reading fault code service light blink continuously.
old ignition coil I broke when trying to remove rubber from middle connector to spark plug :-[
now I waiting for new ignition coil from Germany, but have no peace... did my work cause same new damage & why if 1-3-5 coil is fail car can give some sign of life with 2-4-6 coil???
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In the first instance it helps everyone to know the details of your car.
It is obviously a V6, but what year, and is it a 3.2? The coil pack / DIS pack varies between models.
Whatever the details you may find this guide interesting if purely only for checking the lead layout.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=109316.0
:y :y
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sorry
omega 2.6v6 2002.y
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sorry
omega 2.6v6 2002.y
Thanks! :y :y
I personally have no knowledge of the coil packs on them, but as a general comment I would suspect both coils require replacement, but first check that lead layout. You MAY have mixed them up.
No doubt other members who know the 2.6 will be along to advise :y :y
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First I have misfire on 1-3-5 and unstable engine in idle.
then I receive ignition coil for 1-3-5 bank from guy from forum (not new, he says that he have some problems but he can drive with)
after replace I can't start engine, looks like there is no spark on booth ignitions coil. Is it possible if coil 1-3-5 is fail that 2-4-6 also don't work?
I reconnect battery, and now when reading fault code service light blink continuously.
old ignition coil I broke when trying to remove rubber from middle connector to spark plug :-[
now I waiting for new ignition coil from Germany, but have no peace... did my work cause same new damage & why if 1-3-5 coil is fail car can give some sign of life with 2-4-6 coil???
Not sure if Im reading it right,but sounds like you were sold (or given?) a known faulty coil pack ? :-\ That was never going to help matters.
Dont see how fitting a faulty coild pack would cause the one on the other bank to go also develop a fault. Are you sure your problem lies in the coil packs ?
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As Albs says really, the coil pack provided already had faults or came from a car that already had engine issues?
Also how did you know 1-3-5 bank was at fault?
As you have a 2.6, you can do the pedal test. Details here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90581.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90581.0)
This will give you the fault codes, which will tell us more.
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..... but first check that lead layout. You MAY have mixed them up.
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;) No HT leads on a 2.6 or 3.2 Lizzie ;) ;)
Coil packs clip directly to the plugs :y
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:y
but stil can't start :(
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:y
but stil can't start :(
Have you read the codes, as suggested via pedal test?
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..... but first check that lead layout. You MAY have mixed them up.
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;) No HT leads on a 2.6 or 3.2 Lizzie ;) ;)
Coil packs clip directly to the plugs :y
Really! :o :o
We really do learn on this site Andy! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Thanks :y
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....
Really! :o :o
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That was my reaction at a show at Tatton Park, when a 3.2 owner told me his car didn't have HT leads. ;) ;)
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Pic here of o/s coilpack on 2.6. A simple multiplug type connector plugs in at the end nearest the bulkhead.
(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Albs59/DSCF1402.jpg)
Recess where the coilpack sits in the engine.This is how it looks when you havent cleaned the breathers and your camcover gaskets have given up trying to hold back the tide.
(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Albs59/DSCF1296-1.jpg)
Should have reduced the size of the top pic. :-[
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Really! :o :o
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That was my reaction at a show at Tatton Park, when a 3.2 owner told me his car didn't have HT leads. ;) ;)
So Andy, how do those systems work then without leads? I cannot get my head around that one! ;D ;D ;)
Just looked at the picture more closely.................so do those plastic "strips" over where the plugs are contain leads? :o :o
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@Lizzie - Individual coil packs per cylinder ;) Low tension in to coil pack directly onto plug
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CPP - Coil Per Plug
Each unit contains 3 coils, one of each attaches directly to the top of the plug, a low tension feed from the ECU goes to each "coil pack" as they are sometimes called, the ECU triggers the low tension side, and the CPP makes the required spark at the required time.
"Coil packs" are different each side .. 1-3-5 and 2-4-6 respectively .. it's called progress ... effectively 6 ignition coils instead of one as in the old days of distributors, and if just one fails you have to replace 3 ...
:)
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sorry folks,
problem was I think when remove fuel pipes some fuel leaks out and after reconnecting take more time (starting 5 time for 10sec.) to start engine. I guess it need to pump fuel again
now I can drive with replaced ignition coil, witch is little better then my old, and wait for new one.
:y
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CPP - Coil Per Plug
Each unit contains 3 coils, one of each attaches directly to the top of the plug, a low tension feed from the ECU goes to each "coil pack" as they are sometimes called, the ECU triggers the low tension side, and the CPP makes the required spark at the required time.
"Coil packs" are different each side .. 1-3-5 and 2-4-6 respectively .. it's called progress ... effectively 6 ignition coils instead of one as in the old days of distributors, and if just one fails you have to replace 3 ...
:)
Thanks dbug and Entwood for your feedback. I understand now.
I am still getting used to our cars not having carburettors and distributors. But no leads; that is something else!! :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;)
I was thinking (well I do occasionally!) about this and all electric cars. Do you all think that when something goes wrong we will still be able to replace individual parts, or will it be a case of a new complete motor assembly every time. After all most electrical components, small and large, are now "not serviceable", being sealed units. I can just see the day when the whole electric motor unit is replaced when not running right! ::) ::) ::) ::) ;)
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Really! :o :o
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That was my reaction at a show at Tatton Park, when a 3.2 owner told me his car didn't have HT leads. ;) ;)
So Andy, how do those systems work then without leads? I cannot get my head around that one! ;D ;D ;)
Just looked at the picture more closely.................so do those plastic "strips" over where the plugs are contain leads? :o :o
As Nige says, coil clips directly to the plug ..... No HT at all. ;)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vauxhall-Vectra-Omega-Signum-2-6-3-2-Cylinder-1-3-5-Coil-Pack-9118114-0221503026-/00/s/ODE3WDE2MDA=/$(KGrHqF,!n8FBY)T47FSBQWstY)5,!~~60_58.JPG)
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..... .. it's called progress ... effectively 6 ignition coils instead of one as in the old days of distributors, and if just one fails you have to replace 3 ...
:)
Not all manufacturers do it this way, some, do actually have an individual, replaceable coil on each plug.
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Well it looks very neat Andy, and it must reduce the risks of arcing cables due to them being damaged so easily. :)
Do you know if this system is now common in modern cars? ???
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Well it looks very neat Andy, and it must reduce the risks of arcing cables due to them being damaged so easily. :)
Do you know if this system is now common in modern cars? ???
A lot seem to be going that way. Others would be better placed to answer though, as they work on a greater variety of cars than me. SWMBO's Smart still has HT leads though...... 3 coils, each with 2 leads (3 cylinder engine with 2 plugs per pot ;))
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today I receive and mount new ignition coil and get new error P0300 0301 0303 0305 :-[
then I put new fuel 100 octane and tube of Liquimolly injector cleaner. Now I dont receive new error but get stil unstable engine in idle (500 600 rpm)
is it possible that injector cause error 0300...???
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today I receive and mount new ignition coil and get new error P0300 0301 0303 0305 :-[
then I put new fuel 100 octane and tube of Liquimolly injector cleaner. Now I dont receive new error but get stil unstable engine in idle (500 600 rpm)
is it possible that injector cause error 0300...???
0300 is a 'general misfire' Do you still have the EML light on? The fault codes will be stored for a little while irrespective of you fixing the fault.
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today I receive and mount new ignition coil and get new error P0300 0301 0303 0305 :-[
then I put new fuel 100 octane and tube of Liquimolly injector cleaner. Now I dont receive new error but get stil unstable engine in idle (500 600 rpm)
is it possible that injector cause error 0300...???
Injectors are bullet proof, lets go back to the start of this issue. You fitted a possible faulty coil pack? What made you change this in the first place?
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shit,
after 150 miles open road no problem when driving
first stop and running in idle get eml light
errors
0300
0301
0303
0305
what to check next when ignition coil 1-3-5 is new???
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shit,
after 150 miles open road no problem when driving
first stop and running in idle get eml light
errors
0300
0301
0303
0305
what to check next when ignition coil 1-3-5 is new???
According to yourself, its not new & suspect.
First I have misfire on 1-3-5 and unstable engine in idle.
then I receive ignition coil for 1-3-5 bank from guy from forum (not new, he says that he have some problems but he can drive with)
As before, what made you change it in the first place?
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Check the plug and wiring to coil PAC on 1,3,5.
How old are the spark plugs?
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Igntion coil is new and spark 2 year & about 30000 km
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Igntion coil is new and spark 2 year & about 30000 km
But you said you bought it from someone from the forum!?
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Post 21.
Replace plugs. Might be worth a re torque, they come loose.
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Igntion coil is new and spark 2 year & about 30000 km
But you said you bought it from someone from the forum!?
yes that was second, and now I have third new one
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Igntion coil is new and spark 2 year & about 30000 km
But you said you bought it from someone from the forum!?
yes that was second, and now I have third new one
Ahh, the truth finally :)
As per Chris's post, new plugs + torque wrench :y
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Tunnie, he did say as much. See post 23 ::)
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Tunnie, he did say as much. See post 23 ::)
Oh missed that :-[
My apologies!
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story continue
engine is cleaned with carbonclean MotorVac system with no better results :(
then I tested my car with 4th ignition coil from 3.2V6 which works OK, but in my car causes same errors :( now I am sure that my is OK
testing compression shows that 5th cylinder have only 2/3 compression of 1 or 3. After cleaning with some additive for ventiles there is no new errors :) but still have no stable work in idle (maybe that valves are not 100% clean ??? I don't see new results of compression tests )
later I can't start at all for some time, and after few hours can again. diagnostics show cranck sensor and now I am waiting for new one
what to do if compression in 5 th cylinder is still low and is this normal for car with 270000 km?
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today I receive and mount new ignition coil and get new error P0300 0301 0303 0305 :-[
then I put new fuel 100 octane and tube of Liquimolly injector cleaner. Now I dont receive new error but get stil unstable engine in idle (500 600 rpm)
is it possible that injector cause error 0300...???
Injectors are bullet proof, lets go back to the start of this issue. You fitted a possible faulty coil pack? What made you change this in the first place?
until they go wrong....... Keep an open mind ;)
If there has been a sticky/weeping injector it may have caused a misfire and it may have caused bore wash & subsequent ring damage leading to loss of compression. Not saying it is likely or common though.......
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today I receive and mount new ignition coil and get new error P0300 0301 0303 0305 :-[
then I put new fuel 100 octane and tube of Liquimolly injector cleaner. Now I dont receive new error but get stil unstable engine in idle (500 600 rpm)
is it possible that injector cause error 0300...???
0300 is a 'general misfire' Do you still have the EML light on? The fault codes will be stored for a little while irrespective of you fixing the fault.
Is the multiplug firmly clipped on to the rear of the coil pack? Last time I changed my spark plugs I failed (forgot :-[) to attach the plug and got 0300 0301 0303 & 0305. Tickover was so rough I thought I had broken something.
As Andy B says the codes will hang around for a while (if you are using the pedal trick) but the EML goes out as soon as there are no current faults.
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following the discovery of low compression isn't the next step to do a leak down to find the source of the loss?
:)
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miracle
new cranck sensor & today all cylinders have compression 15
no misfire
only still no smooth work in idle???
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shit >:( >:( >:(
resime:
today I pick up car from service
new ignition coil 1-3-5
cleaned valves and injectors
injectors swaped place 2-4-6 with 1-3-5
cranck sensor is old (I am waiting for new one)
compression 15 on all cylinders
today eml light & missfire 1-3-5 >:( seams I have to resolve problem myself
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shit >:( >:( >:(
resime:
today I pick up car from service
new ignition coil 1-3-5
cleaned valves and injectors
injectors swaped place 2-4-6 with 1-3-5
cranck sensor is old (I am waiting for new one)
compression 15 on all cylinders
today eml light & missfire 1-3-5 >:( seams I have to resolve problem myself
Hi Manalo,
Unless I'm being stupid as it's been a long day (please feel free to tell me if I am) but the changing of a crank sensor/injectors will have no bearing on compression of a cylinder.
When you say ''compression 15 on all cylinders'', is this 15 bar of pressure in each cylinder? Unsure how you can go from one cylinder being at 2/3rds its brothers and sisters (as per your previous post) to all the same without correcting something compression related as opposed to ignition related.
How are you doing your compression testing?
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Hi Webby,
I was there on first measuring when 5th cylinder have about 10 bar and 1&3 15 bar
after they cleaned valves (don't know how but they did not disassembled engine) and told me that compression now is same on all cylinders, 15 bar
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Hi Webby,
I was there on first measuring when 5th cylinder have about 10 bar and 1&3 15 bar
after they cleaned valves (don't know how but they did not disassembled engine) and told me that compression now is same on all cylinders, 15 bar
That's fair enough then mate :y
Two things I will say though bearing in mind you still have a problem....
1.) from a compression test how did they know it was valve related (or did they openly say ''we'll try this first''?)
2.) if you were at the garage when you saw cylinder 5 at 10 bar, I'd want to be there to see the new 15 bar.... just for piece of mind ;)
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Hi Webby,
I was there on first measuring when 5th cylinder have about 10 bar and 1&3 15 bar
after they cleaned valves (don't know how but they did not disassembled engine) and told me that compression now is same on all cylinders, 15 bar
That's fair enough then mate :y
Two things I will say though bearing in mind you still have a problem....
1.) from a compression test how did they know it was valve related (or did they openly say ''we'll try this first''?)
2.) if you were at the garage when you saw cylinder 5 at 10 bar, I'd want to be there to see the new 15 bar.... just for piece of mind ;)
1. Yes, they say they will try
2. me to, but they test without me
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i'd personally ask to see another one... but maybe thats cos i'm cynical :y