Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: redelitev6 on 20 December 2012, 17:35:11
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Anybody been watching the BBC 4 programme about the Jet age? hard to imagine now but we really did lead the world in jet technology just after the war , sad to see it all go pear shaped after some bad planning ( selling jet engines to the Russains , much to Stalins amazement ! ) how far we've fallen :(
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Watched one other night. Quite interesting, took me back to when I was little and M&D took me to Heathrow to watch the planes and I recall seeing a Comet.
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It was also the Comet disasters, if I remember correctly, that gave the Americans the lead with the Boeing 707 becoming the jet for the airlines to buy, although the Comet was the first to fly and was doing well before the crashes due to metal fatigue.
Never forget also that the German's had developed jet technology, with in particular the ME262 being the World's first operational jet fighter. I have not seen the documentary yet, but I would be surprised if the Russians had not already captured the jet technology, and some German scientists during their drive to Berlin. I do know that Stalin's was surprised, as you say, by the British sending them jet engines and associated 'secrets'. ;)
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It was also the Comet disasters, if I remember correctly, that gave the Americans the lead with the Boeing 707 becoming the jet for the airlines to buy, although the Comet was the first to fly and was doing well before the crashes due to metal fatigue.
Never forget also that the German's had developed jet technology, with in particular the ME262 being the World's first operational jet fighter. I have not seen the documentary yet, but I would be surprised if the Russians had not already captured the jet technology, and some German scientists during their drive to Berlin. I do know that Stalin's was surprised, as you say, by the British sending them jet engines and associated 'secrets'. ;)
Bleedin square windows ::)
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It was also the Comet disasters, if I remember correctly, that gave the Americans the lead with the Boeing 707 becoming the jet for the airlines to buy, although the Comet was the first to fly and was doing well before the crashes due to metal fatigue.
Never forget also that the German's had developed jet technology, with in particular the ME262 being the World's first operational jet fighter. I have not seen the documentary yet, but I would be surprised if the Russians had not already captured the jet technology, and some German scientists during their drive to Berlin. I do know that Stalin's was surprised, as you say, by the British sending them jet engines and associated 'secrets'. ;)
Bleedin square windows ::)
Indeed, cracks were found to radiate from those areas. ;)
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BOAC (Now BA) have a lot to answer for as well in their design specification which, when delivered, they didn't want. Prats.
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Must admit i've been walking around with a semi since watching the lightnings again :-* :-* :-*:D
God, I miss them :'( :'(
Yup, the orignal comet's design was seriously flawed but what was so typical of the good old brits was the amount of bitching, in fighting between god knows how many companys operating at the time.
That imo screwed up the industry. A classic case of too many cooks spoils the broth :(
As for Duncan Sands and Mountbatton, they should have been shot as traitors imo.
The vicky 10 was designed to get in and out of smallish and high runways that we had scattered around the empire at the time. Hence the massive thrust (for a subsonic airliner) and high lift aerofoyle. Sadly, it wasn't very economical so lost out to the Boeing 707 / Dc8 series :(
Typical of the air ministry of the day to set the specification so narrow. Nothing has changed with them daft buggers >:( >:(
The vicky 10 was still quick though. :-X :-X
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Must admit i've been walking around with a semi since watching the lightnings again :-* :-* :-*:D
God, I miss them :'( :'(
Yup, the orignal comet's design was seriously flawed but what was so typical of the good old brits was the amount of bitching, in fighting between god knows how many companys operating at the time.
That imo screwed up the industry. A classic case of too many cooks spoils the broth :(
As for Duncan Sands and Mountbatton, they should have been shot as traitors imo.
The vicky 10 was designed to get in and out of smallish and high runways that we had scattered around the empire at the time. Hence the massive thrust (for a subsonic airliner) and high lift aerofoyle. Sadly, it wasn't very economical so lost out to the Boeing 707 / Dc8 series :(
Typical of the air ministry of the day to set the specification so narrow. Nothing has changed with them daft buggers >:( >:(
The vicky 10 was still quick though. :-X :-X
That was one beautiful airliner :-* :-* 8) 8) 8)
.........and for those too young to remember it this is what we are talking about:
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lizziefreeman/VC10.jpg)
So impressive! :-* :-* :-*
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Must admit i've been walking around with a semi since watching the lightnings again :-* :-* :-*:D
God, I miss them :'( :'(
Yup, the orignal comet's design was seriously flawed but what was so typical of the good old brits was the amount of bitching, in fighting between god knows how many companys operating at the time.
That imo screwed up the industry. A classic case of too many cooks spoils the broth :(
As for Duncan Sands and Mountbatton, they should have been shot as traitors imo.
The vicky 10 was designed to get in and out of smallish and high runways that we had scattered around the empire at the time. Hence the massive thrust (for a subsonic airliner) and high lift aerofoyle. Sadly, it wasn't very economical so lost out to the Boeing 707 / Dc8 series :(
Typical of the air ministry of the day to set the specification so narrow. Nothing has changed with them daft buggers >:( >:(
The vicky 10 was still quick though. :-X :-X
That was one beautiful airliner :-* :-* 8) 8) 8)
.........and for those too young to remember it this is what we are talking about:
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lizziefreeman/VC10.jpg)
So impressive! :-* :-* :-*
There are still a few left over at Brize iirc.
They may be held together with Araldite, super glue and gaffer tape but they are still more servicable then the Tristars that are there :-X :-X :-X
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Afraid I've not seen the programme,was it not Frank Whittle who pioneered the jet engine?I find it truly sad how far we have fallen,we used to lead the world in so many things and it seems we have just sat on our laurels and frittered it all away.
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Afraid I've not seen the programme,was it not Frank Whittle who pioneered the jet engine?I find it truly sad how far we have fallen,we used to lead the world in so many things and it seems we have just sat on our laurels and frittered it all away.
It was, but the German's were running with the idea of jet propulsion at the same time. It was the German's who had their ME262 in the air first due to the Nazis believing that this was the way forward and giving the project their full support. Unfortunately Frank Whittle could not obtain RAF support, and had to develop his ideas on his own. Thus the German's stole the march on jet technology, not only for jet aircraft but importantly for missles, such as for the V weapons programme. Typically it was the British who were slow in recognising a great invention!! ::) ::) ::)
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.................I would add that if the Allies had not successfully carried out their bombing campaign and destroyed crucial aircraft parts factories and oil facilities the Germans could well have won the war with their acquired jet technology. The ME262 could have shot everything else out of the sky if their numbers actually flying had been at the planned levels. The V weapons, especially the V2 could have destroyed more than the blitz ever achieved. If the intended ballistic missle, the V3 had of gone into production............well we can only now thank God that never happened. All the V weapon launch sites, including the mobile V2 launch vehicles, were bombed. The parts, fuel, and the trained pilots for the ME262 simply dried up, and the Allies overran the airfields to find abandoned jet aircraft.
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The first aircraft to fly under jet engine power was the Heinkel He 178 during 1939.
Whittle managed the get his engine fitted into the Gloster E.28/39 during 1941 but the good old air ministry was not interested because it was actually slower then the fastest piston engined fighters of the day.
The Me 262 was a briliant aircraft that would have made a big difference if it wasn't for "agent hitler" sticking his nose in and insisting that it was turned into a bomber ::) :y
That truely screwed up the program and by the time they had managed to get the thing into service as a fighter, it was far too late to make much of a difference.
Gloster finally managed to stick 2 of the engines in the meteor which managed to get into service around the end of 1944.
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Some seem to forget that we still do lead the way in jet engine technology as used both on the ground and sea and in the sky.
That and our lead in wing design and manufacture, landing gear, ejector seats etc etc etc.....the list goes on.
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I have always fancied having a go at building a small jet engine.........I have a lot of spare time on my hands this year [strokes chin]
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Some seem to forget that we still do lead the way in jet engine technology as used both on the ground and sea and in the sky.
That and our lead in wing design and manufacture, landing gear, ejector seats etc etc etc.....the list goes on.
Shame we can't bolt it all together and build our own anymore :(
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I can do nothing but agree with you there,and if I remember correctly weren't the Germans very very close to having the nuclear bomb first?Plus I think they were leading the way in rocket technology-as in their diminutive ME163 Komet-or was anyone else leading the way?
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I can do nothing but agree with you there,and if I remember correctly weren't the Germans very very close to having the nuclear bomb first?Plus I think they were leading the way in rocket technology-as in their diminutive ME163 Komet-or was anyone else leading the way?
I think the germans had all the pieces ............... its just they didn't have time / get the chance to put it all together before we came storming threw europe and spoilt the party.
If we had delayed D Day until 1945, I think it could have got very nasty over there :(
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I can do nothing but agree with you there,and if I remember correctly weren't the Germans very very close to having the nuclear bomb first?Plus I think they were leading the way in rocket technology-as in their diminutive ME163 Komet-or was anyone else leading the way?
I think the germans had all the pieces ............... its just they didn't have time / get the chance to put it all together before we came storming threw europe and spoilt the party.
If we had delayed D Day until 1945, I think it could have got very nasty over there :(
Lets be honest , if Hitler hadn't invaded Russia , things would be VERY different now-goose steps all round !
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two words :-
TSR2
Labour
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I have always fancied having a go at building a small jet engine.........I have a lot of spare time on my hands this year [strokes chin]
I quite fancy building one of these..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8BX7dUk5c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8BX7dUk5c)
Bit of the old and new. Log burning gas turbine. 8)
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The first time I ever flew was in a Comet about 1969-ish, it was abit off putting watching the loose rivets in the wing panels vibrating up and down, I was only going from Birmingham to Belfast, been going for about 10 mins when they announced the plane was experiencing "difficulties so we had to then fly down to Heathrow, change planes to a Viscount and start all over again, the Comet seemed a great plane though.
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I can do nothing but agree with you there,and if I remember correctly weren't the Germans very very close to having the nuclear bomb first?Plus I think they were leading the way in rocket technology-as in their diminutive ME163 Komet-or was anyone else leading the way?
I think the germans had all the pieces ............... its just they didn't have time / get the chance to put it all together before we came storming threw europe and spoilt the party.
If we had delayed D Day until 1945, I think it could have got very nasty over there :(
Lets be honest , if Hitler hadn't invaded Russia , things would be VERY different now-goose steps all round !
Yep,we would have ended up being ruled by Germany. :y
Actually, things might have been pretty much the same then........ ::) ;) ;D
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I have always fancied having a go at building a small jet engine.........I have a lot of spare time on my hands this year [strokes chin]
I quite fancy building one of these..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8BX7dUk5c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8BX7dUk5c)
Bit of the old and new. Log burning gas turbine. 8)
I likey. Similar to that wood fueled car they drove around London.
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I have always fancied having a go at building a small jet engine.........I have a lot of spare time on my hands this year [strokes chin]
I quite fancy building one of these..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8BX7dUk5c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8BX7dUk5c)
Bit of the old and new. Log burning gas turbine. 8)
I likey. Similar to that wood fueled car they drove around London.
I'm trying to figure out how to attach it to a brewery. Reckon that'd boil quite a bit of wort. ;D
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I've got a wort that needs getting rid! That looks a bit extreme though!!! :o ;D
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The first time I ever flew was in a Comet about 1969-ish, it was abit off putting watching the loose rivets in the wing panels vibrating up and down, I was only going from Birmingham to Belfast, been going for about 10 mins when they announced the plane was experiencing "difficulties so we had to then fly down to Heathrow, change planes to a Viscount and start all over again, the Comet seemed a great plane though.
It was. I had the pleasure in flying in a RAF Transport Command Comet 4B in 1964, my first jet flight, and it was fantastic! I will never forget flying in seats facing the tail and thus watching the ground fade away as the RAF pilot put the plane in a full steep climb to altitude, something a civilian pilot could never have done with non-military personnel on board. It was brilliant! So was the plane itself, being very comfortable and smooth in flight. ;) ;)
The other great thing I remember about that flight was my poor dad, Royal Navy, who hated heights, sitting beside me, going a funny shade of white, crossing himself and fingering his rosary beads like crazy!! Wicked was I? Well perhaps so, but it was funny!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The early ones were quite poor though, think the unpainted one looked "future like" on the run way, but I understand that was due to paint adding to much weight?
De Havilland rushed the Comet into service, to beat the Americans. Who were way behind, if they had taken their time, Boeing would not have been the dominant force it became
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I think the metal fatigue lesson would have been learnt by whoever got there first, to be honest. Repeatedly cycling large pressurised fuselages to high altitudes just hadn't been done before.