Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Koomorph on 28 December 2012, 13:28:36
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Hello gents
Well after months (probably over a year!) of trouble free motoring I received a paniced call from my poor mum today saying the miggy was on fire!! :o
It actually wasn't on fire.... but after calming her down and racing over to her and dad's house and popping the hood it seems that they have lost all their coolant - the expansion bottle was bone dry, and I could see coolant still dripping along the bottom front of the engine. :-[ With all the steam (and smoke?) my mum obviously thought the car was on fire!
So hoping you guys can help identify where the leak is coming from - I understand that the HBV is the prime suspect (02 reg, 85K miggy).
Firstly I need to refill their coolant - could someone advise the ratio (50/50?) and if this would be suitable option from Halfords - http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_185166_langId_-1_categoryId_255224
Next, what would be the correct process for refilling the car with coolant? Do we just pour into the expansion bottle, and keep refiling until it no longer wants any more and then turn the car on? Let it warm up, keep topping up (and turn the heating on at some point..?)?
Finally, once refilled, how do I check where the leak is coming from (any obvious signs if it's the HBV)? Where else could I look that could indicate the HBV - or other possible leak?
All your help as always is super appreciated! Hope everyone has had a great Christmas! :)
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IMHO until you find the leak fill with plain water . Once the leak is FIXED then add the antifreeze !
:)
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IMHO until you find the leak fill with plain water . Once the leak is FIXED then add the antifreeze !
:)
I agree.
Fill up with water, play about with the heater settings and look at the back of the plenum in the drivers side area. If y'all have a leak from HBV at some point you'll see it pee out.
Presuming it's the HBV, replace that (guide on here).
Then fill up with 50/50 mix of antifreeze. Once filled up start engine, leave to idle a bit, then keep the revs about 2500 until all air is bled out. Top up.
Done
HTH :)
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.... and popping the hood it ....
A convertible Omega :o :o :o
or been watching too much shite form t'other side of the Atlantic? ;) ;)
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.... and popping the hood it ....
A convertible Omega :o :o :o
or been watching too much shite form t'other side of the Atlantic? ;) ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Also something I forgot to mention.... when you're bleeding the air out after refilling it helps to massage radiator hoses to help expel the air :)
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Hahaha! Yes, sorry, must be that! Haha!
Thanks all - good idea on the "water only" to first identify the leak. Will do that and check the HBV.
If I don't see it leaking from the HBV - anywhere else obvious I can check while I'm there?
Cheers again!
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If it is visible along the bottom front of the engine i would hazard a guess it is the water pump or one of the rad hoses that have split or the radiator has gone at the bottom. check with plain water first. if it is that big a leak then you will see it easy.
fill the expansion bottle to the max mark and start the engine and wait for the level to drop as the engine fills with water, then add untill it drops no further. only fill to the MAX MARK.
Did the engine overheat for long before the motor was swithched off.????
If the leak was at the back of the engine i would suspect HBV but at the front no.
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Ok, so went back to try to identify the leak.....
Didn't even get a chance to start her up - as soon as I poured a litre of water into the expansion tank - I could hear it steadlily "dribbling" out. Couldn't see anything out the back - looked down the front of the engine below the crank pulley - and it seemed all to be coming from there (although the car is on a very minor forward facing slope). Within 4 or so mins, all the water had drained out again.
I couldn't see any leaks from the HBV - but I'm guessing that 1 lt of water hasn't even reached the HBV from when I first poured it into the expansion tank.... and not even turned the car on.
I took some video on my phone here and told them not to drive it!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttzczY_WGLo&feature=youtu.be
Any thoughts what this may be? Just not what they need at Christmas time! :-[
EDIT: To add to this -
My mum said it only started steaming/smelling as she drove into their road (short cul-de-sac) and she just parked up outside their house and switched it off. Hopefully no serious head damage has been done.
Water pump was changed with cambelt about 8K miles (and 2 year 11 months) ago - genuine VX parts
I checked dipstick while I was there - no mayo on it.
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Edited - added to my post above.
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I was going to say water pump or seal but looks like from what you said its been changed recently :( could be the seal though ..or a duff pump
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I'd take the aux belt etc off and remove the cambelt cover, if your lucky it's the waterpump housing cracked or not tight against the block or something similar.
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Sounds like the pump. If you drop the alternator belt off and then spin the pump by hand, see how it feels.
If it feels rough the take the timing belt cover off for a better look
Andy
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Water pump ...... you sure it was a GM part? :-\
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.... and popping the hood it ....
A convertible Miggy :o :o :o :-X :-X :-X
or been watching too much shite form t'other side of the Atlantic? ;) ;)
:)
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If it isn't the pump then the thermostat/transfer tube or the plate on top of the oil cooler may have corroded through. Either way you will need to remove the inlet plenum to have a look.
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With it being a 2.6 you'll need to take the plenum off before you can check the water pump. Although its the prime candidate, have a look in around the stat housing as well, just in case.
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Thanks all - does it look like it's coming from the water pump here - looks more like it's under the crank pulley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttzczY_WGLo&feature=youtu.be
I think it was a GM part - Daz supplied and fitted it when he did the cambelt.
Is there a quick guide to removing the aux belt so I can check the water pump pulley?
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Where abouts are you? I am travelling to Heathrow tomorrow and I can divert with my box of tools on the way back if you wish :y
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Water pump is directly above the crank so its difficult to tell, even with the video. You'll need to remove the front bagpipes, etc to allow you space to work at the aux belt, and you'll need to strip down a little bit further to be able to remove the front timing cover. Do you have access to the cambelt DVD?
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..... Do you have access to the cambelt DVD?
What for? :-\
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Thanks again all - no, not got access to cambelt DVD, I'm a bit rusty with the spanners also as we've not had any issues with the miggy recently so could do with help probably..... :-[
Guffer, thanks will drop you a PM - not sure if my folks are about tomorrow, but will let you know - very kind of you! :)
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Looking at video, and in view of the amount leaking so quickly, would be 99% in favour of collapsed bearing in water pump. Disconnect aux belt and feel waterpump pulley (directly above crank pulley) - would expect obvious play and roughness if its the water pump failed ;)
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..... Do you have access to the cambelt DVD?
What for? :-\
Thought it might have been handy to guide OP through the process of dismantling ???
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Thought it might have been handy to guide OP through the process of dismantling ???
Ah! :y I've never seen it. ;)
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Thought it might have been handy to guide OP through the process of dismantling ???
Ah! :y I've never seen it. ;)
excellent dvd. good for the strip down too :y
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It does look like the water pump is the fault in some way :( but as others have said you need to have a little stripdown of ancilleries to see if it is for sure.
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Thought it might have been handy to guide OP through the process of dismantling ???
Ah! :y I've never seen it. ;)
excellent dvd. good for the strip down too :y
:y
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use distilled water
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use distilled water
You at least want to put anti-freeze in there as well. But a mix of just tap water and anti-freeze in a 50/50 mix is the way to go. Prevent freezing & protect the engine ;)
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Thanks everyone, Guffer will hopefully be here soon and we'll report back the what it is.
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Thanks everyone, Guffer will hopefully be here soon and we'll report back the what it is.
Top man he is, can't go wrong there :y
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Massive thanks to Guffer, diagnosed and sorted the problem in no time - water pump bearings had failed. Refitted a new pump and even gave the breathers a clean while we were there! Proper top bloke! :y
Cheers everyone for the help and advice on here also! :)
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Good stuff :y
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Massive thanks to Guffer, diagnosed and sorted the problem in no time - water pump bearings had failed. Refitted a new pump and even gave the breathers a clean while we were there! Proper top bloke! :y
Cheers everyone for the help and advice on here also! :)
As I thought - easy fix, glad its sorted :y
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Result :y
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No problem, it was an easy fix. You are more than welcome. That cambelt only has another 13 months on it though even if it has only done 6.5k in the last three years!!! ::)
For everyone else, it was quite suprising how significantly it had failed. I wonder if there are any bearings left in the pump. It looked genuine Vx and was changed when Daz did the belt 3 years gone. As suspected Daz's work shows as the belt he put on is still perfectly timed, the water pump failure had nothing to do with him. The rest of the car was in great shape although the breathers were a bit messy from the short journeys. The prescribed weekly motorway run should help keep them cleaner. ;D I plugged in the code reader but no codes and nothing amiss :y
I have kept the pump and will investigate to try and see why it failed. In the meantime, once you are sure there are no further leaks drop the water and pop in the coolant. If you wish I can do it here at my place and get the coolant from Vx on the Trade card. That way you get the long run the car needs :y
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As usual Guffer it took me twenty minutes to read your post ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D loving the avatar
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Quite a few reports of V6 water pumps letting go early :( :-\
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Quite a few reports of V6 water pumps letting go early :( :-\
And according to my teacher Vauxhall used to use timinig belt driven pumps :o
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Quite a few reports of V6 water pumps letting go early :( :-\
And according to my teacher Vauxhall used to use timinig belt driven pumps :o
This is the first I have seen. So is the concencus now that pattern is better?
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Quite a few reports of V6 water pumps letting go early :( :-\
And according to my teacher Vauxhall used to use timinig belt driven pumps :o
Still do I think. My 2.2 water pump is cambelt driven :)
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Quite a few reports of V6 water pumps letting go early :( :-\
And according to my teacher Vauxhall used to use timinig belt driven pumps :o
This is the first I have seen. So is the concencus now that pattern is better?
Heard of quite a few going now, GM prices now stupid on these so pattern is the way to go I think.
Also no longer saying change it with cambelt due to the drop in quality and rise in price. Used to be cheap as chips & worth it when stripped down that far.
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No problem, it was an easy fix. You are more than welcome. That cambelt only has another 13 months on it though even if it has only done 6.5k in the last three years!!! ::)
For everyone else, it was quite suprising how significantly it had failed. I wonder if there are any bearings left in the pump. It looked genuine Vx and was changed when Daz did the belt 3 years gone. As suspected Daz's work shows as the belt he put on is still perfectly timed, the water pump failure had nothing to do with him. The rest of the car was in great shape although the breathers were a bit messy from the short journeys. The prescribed weekly motorway run should help keep them cleaner. ;D I plugged in the code reader but no codes and nothing amiss :y
I have kept the pump and will investigate to try and see why it failed. In the meantime, once you are sure there are no further leaks drop the water and pop in the coolant. If you wish I can do it here at my place and get the coolant from Vx on the Trade card. That way you get the long run the car needs :y
Had that on my Elite - bearing had completely collapsed, suddenly, found loose needle rollers everwhere. Mine was a genuine Vx water pump too!
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..... as the belt he put on is still perfectly timed, .....
Short of a failure of some kind, a timing belt is going to stay as it was fitted ........ it's not going to alter the timing one way or the other.
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Always found QH pumps ok
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FWIW I put a pattern pump on mine 20k ago (replaced perfectly serviceable original part) and within 2 weeks it was leaking around the sealing O ring which had turned to plastic. So, use a pattern pump by all means, but use a genuine seal. :y
I wouldn't bother changing a V6 water pump on a routine basis these days, as new parts don't seem to last. Wait until it dies.
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FWIW I put a pattern pump on mine 20k ago (replaced perfectly serviceable original part) and within 2 weeks it was leaking around the sealing O ring which had turned to plastic. So, use a pattern pump by all means, but use a genuine seal. :y
I wouldn't bother changing a V6 water pump on a routine basis these days, as new parts don't seem to last. Wait until it dies.
Tend to agree with you Kevin, but when mine went it was a sudden and catastrophic failure. I replaced it with a QH pump and used seal that came with it and had no more problems with it in about 35K. AFAIK its still going strong.
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Dodgy batch of WPs perhaps :-\ any build data on it? Might be able to identify potential faulty ones :y
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Dodgy batch of WPs perhaps :-\ any build data on it? Might be able to identify potential faulty ones :y
No build data on mine - was on the car when I got it, happened a few years back now, but identified as Vx. No idea of how many miles it had covered.
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FWIW I put a pattern pump on mine 20k ago (replaced perfectly serviceable original part) and within 2 weeks it was leaking around the sealing O ring which had turned to plastic. So, use a pattern pump by all means, but use a genuine seal. :y
I wouldn't bother changing a V6 water pump on a routine basis these days, as new parts don't seem to last. Wait until it dies.
Tend to agree with you Kevin, but when mine went it was a sudden and catastrophic failure. I replaced it with a QH pump and used seal that came with it and had no more problems with it in about 35K. AFAIK its still going strong.
:y
With metal veins vains vanes
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FWIW I put a pattern pump on mine 20k ago (replaced perfectly serviceable original part) and within 2 weeks it was leaking around the sealing O ring which had turned to plastic. So, use a pattern pump by all means, but use a genuine seal. :y
I wouldn't bother changing a V6 water pump on a routine basis these days, as new parts don't seem to last. Wait until it dies.
Tend to agree with you Kevin, but when mine went it was a sudden and catastrophic failure. I replaced it with a QH pump and used seal that came with it and had no more problems with it in about 35K. AFAIK its still going strong.
:y
With metal veins vains vanes
Yep :y