Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: feeutfo on 22 January 2013, 23:28:07
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I know some of you can't wait until 2017.
So if the referendum was tomorrow how would you vote?
Poll to follow.
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done if only it was that easy ;D
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Weve pretty much been here before. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ2n7oMcSi0
His lips move,therefore he lies - seemples.
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But dont we only get to vote if they are re- elected >:(
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Even then,I wouldnt count on it.This speech is quite clever,its designed to stop UKIP in its tracks,bring Tory voters back into the fold and quieten his own back benchers.
Theres no way the EU will ever reshape itself to what he has just said he wants it to be,and he knows it.It may however collude with him to try to convince the British electorate that it has,and then when the vote has been won,carry on to its inevitable destination of a U.S.S.E
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70 odd views and only 13 votes, :o :o :o come on :y :y
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I feel we need to remain in the EU but would like to see a hell of a lot more concessions and rebates
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It's unfortunate that the whole EU issue has crept up on us during a 20 year period of such weak, self-serving national government. The time for negotiating with the EU was while the direction of the parliament in Brussels was being established. Now Brussels finds itself empowered by the financial state of the eurozone to press ahead with its plans it's a bit late to start whining about it, TBH, and we still don't have a government who are sufficiently strong and determined to represent the will of the British people.
Still, Cameron has promised a referendum (again!) so that's OK, then. Worked last time. ::)
This one's on the condition that we vote him back in AND he successfully "negotiates" some concessions so I can't see him even having to go back on his word this time. ;D
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I feel we need to remain in the EU but would like to see a hell of a lot more concessions and rebates
Do you think there is any realistic chance of turning back the tide of closer integration,mountains of legislation etc. etc. In short,the EU completely changing its direction and remit ?
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I feel we need to remain in the EU but would like to see a hell of a lot more concessions and rebates
Key to the question is finding the best solution for business IMO. Whatever that may be.
The opinion of the man in the street is way down the list of prioritys.
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I feel we need to remain in the EU but would like to see a hell of a lot more concessions and rebates
Do you think there is any realistic chance of turning back the tide of closer integration,mountains of legislation etc. etc. In short,the EU completely changing its direction and remit ?
Depends, the EU is very reliant on UK plc for a large portion of its funds, for them its better to get something than nothing....
The threat of withdrawl and a specific action of going to a vote is going to get the greedy mob in Brussels concerned and potentialy more open to discussion.
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Im convinced they will offer (and cameron will probably accept) a smokescreen of superficial changes which will allow him to claim he was won a great victory for britain,Its the way they and he operate.
We have just overtaken France as Germany,s biggest trading partner which may provide more leverage,but it also casts more doubt on the argument that EU countries will freeze us out if we leave.
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Im convinced they will offer (and cameron will probably accept) a smokescreen of superficial changes which will allow him to claim he was won a great victory for britain,Its the way they and he operate.
We have just overtaken France as Germany,s biggest trading partner which may provide more leverage,but it also casts more doubt on the argument that EU countries will freeze us out if we leave.
We could always leave hand in hand with Germany...
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If the German electorate were given a refeendum,that could happen.They must be sick and tired of spending squillions of euros to try to revive dead economies.
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If the German electorate were given a refeendum,that could happen.They must be sick and tired of spending squillions of euros to try to revive dead economies.
There's a few Germans at work - I know at least one of them will hear nothing bad said about the EU and is a staunch supporter of the CDU and Angela Merkel.. he's from about as far West as you can go in Germany before you fall off into Denmark, too, so not even old guard East German.
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We have just overtaken France as Germany,s biggest trading partner which may provide more leverage,but it also casts more doubt on the argument that EU countries will freeze us out if we leave.
I expect that means that Germany exports more stuff to Britain than to France, rather than the UK selling more stuff to Germany than France does.... ;)
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That may be so,but would they want to cut that outlet off if we resigned from the club ? I very much doubt it. ;)
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I listened to part of Cameron's speech before I had to go for a meeting this morning.
But I did catch his point that it is no good voting on either getting out, or staying in ,the EU before the flux that is the Union settles down and Britain knows fully what is at stake, after re-negotiations take place that could dramatically the UK's position.
I am certainly fed up with the EU's actions, or not, but I must admit to seeing Cameron's point of view. It is scary to consider it, but maybe at last he is becoming focused! :o :o :o :o ::) :D :D ;)
PS I am not going to vote yet as far more data and time has got to be revealed and pass before a considered opinion can be finally decided upon.
The big question is anyway, will the EU survive? ::) ::)
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The big question is anyway, will the EU survive? ::) ::)
Indeed. And if it doesn't, can we avoid being further embroiled in it when it does come crashing down?
I suspect that's a question of whose economy crashes first, the eurozone or ours. Not looking great for either currently.
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Cameron knows fine well he's going to lose the next election so that gets him off the hook , devious sod >:(
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I must admit to having shamelessly copied this comment from elsewhere. Whoever posted it has the situation spot on.
So what would happen in the unlikely event that:
(A) Cameron wins a general election in 2015 then
(B) renegotiates our position in the EU then
(C) we have a referendum on that position in 2017 and then
(D) We vote “IN” and then
(E) our renegotiated position in a new treaty is then vetoed by other EU member states?
It took 10 years for the Constitutional Treaty to become finally ratified as the Lisbon Reform Treaty and this next Treaty will be a LOT more contentious than that one.
There is no way in hell that Cameron can renegotiate a new treaty in which we will get our demands met AND have it ratified by all 26 other EU member state’s governments by the time of a referendum in 2017. That is OBVIOUS. To even pretend to suggest otherwise is to treat the British electorate with contempt and treat us like fools.
So will he delay the referendum indefinitely until his renegotiation is ratified into a treaty by all other member states?
Or will we have a referendum on a renegotiated position which could still be vetoed by these other states? In which case the ONLY safe vote would be for “OUT”.
Or IF his negotiation fails entirely? What then? Will he support withdrawal? Or is all this a big cynical trap to keep us all IN a Federal EU? Claiming that after we vote in, and after our renegotiated position is then vetoed by another member state, that we will be stuck in, with EUrophiles claiming that we voted to stay in, so we are going to stay in, no matter what!
We need the answers to those serious and pertinent questions before the next election.
It's all smoke and mirrors. Renegotiation my a*se. >:(
Oh look, there's a flying pig!
Vote UKIP :y
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If the German electorate were given a refeendum,that could happen.They must be sick and tired of spending squillions of euros to try to revive dead economies.
Yes, many are.
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::)
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite ;D
but I really doubt this referandum will be done..
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::)
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite ;D
but I really doubt this referandum will be done..
Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue. ;D
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::)
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite ;D
but I really doubt this referandum will be done..
Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue. ;D
worst is uncertainty, in case you leave you will know where you are going..
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::)
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite ;D
but I really doubt this referandum will be done..
Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue. ;D
worst is uncertainty, in case you leave you will know where you are going..
but I can bet , some powers will try every way to stop this referandum.. and likely be successful..
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Yep.
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::)
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite ;D
but I really doubt this referandum will be done..
Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue. ;D
worst is uncertainty, in case you leave you will know where you are going..
but I can bet , some powers will try every way to stop this referandum.. and likely be successful..
David Camoron dies and is at the pearly gates. St Peter says to him, you've done one or two good things, but they are cancelled out by quite a lot of bad things. St Peter said as I'm undecided where you will go, I will let you spend a day in Heaven and a day in Hell and you can decide.
On his day in Heaven it was all calm and enjoyable flitting from cloud to cloud, but he didn't really know anybody so it was an enjoyable day but nothing special.
The next day the devil meets him at the door and escorts him to where all his fellow politicians reside, they go off and have a game of golf, come back and have a feast with plenty of fine wines and talk about the old times on earth. All in all a very agreeable day.
When he sees St Peter the next day he says, this might seem funny, but heaven was okay, but to be frank a bit boring and I didn't really know anybody, but I had a great day in Hell with all my old political friends, so I actually think I would be happier in Hell.
St Peter said it is your choice as he escorted him down to Hell, opened the gate and kicked him through. Through his screams of pain from the fire and brimstone, David Cameron shouted to the Devil, what has happened, it wasn't like this yesterday. The Devil replied: Yesterday I was campaigning for your vote, today I've got it. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The last time I heard that joke it was the IBM and ICL versions of heaven and hell, so you can tell how old it is ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Voting is 3 for IN 35 for OUT. So VOTE UKIP it is the only way we'll ever get a say.
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Just heard a great comment on 'Lewis'.....Student was told by Lewis....'You are telling lies'.....girl replies..'Politicians are lying all the time but you don't go chasing after them' ...how true.
My goodness, just think how full the jails would be if all the lying politicians were prosecuted for it and jailed.
Oh Heaven :y :y :y :y
Cameron is not daft... he knows how to brainwash the gullible. Millibands speech showed just how much he regards your opinion....not one iota >:( At the end of the day, its a select club of 600 odd MP's, playing their own game, with 70 million powerless onlookers.
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Just heard a great comment on 'Lewis'.....Student was told by Lewis....'You are telling lies'.....girl replies..'Politicians are lying all the time but you don't go chasing after them' ...how true.
My goodness, just think how full the jails would be if all the lying politicians were prosecuted for it and jailed.
Oh Heaven :y :y :y :y
Cameron is not daft... he knows how to brainwash the gullible. Millibands speech showed just how much he regards your opinion....not one iota >:( At the end of the day, its a select club of 600 odd MP's, playing their own game, with 70 million powerless onlookers.
Even if the majority don't vote for them >:( >:(
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Just a pity its not as easy to pull away from the euro Brit haters eh :y :y
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I will admit to being anti EU, especially with the situation as it is and the information provided by our resident anti EU lobby
We are continually hearing about what is BAD for the UK being in the EU.
So in the interest of finding more data so that we can evenly consider our position for the referendum sometime after 2016. Can anyone provide information on what GOOD the UK has gained from our involvement in the EU project.
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Agree'd we need to wake up and really understand that we are not liked and those opinions go much further than Europe,on a personal basis I'm expecting to get shafted by whoever or whatever happens,so used it now and don't care anymore...this country is loosing it's identity by degrees and give it a decade or two we'll have lost it. >:(
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Agree'd we need to wake up and really understand that we are not liked and those opinions go much further than Europe,on a personal basis I'm expecting to get shafted by whoever or whatever happens,so used it now and don't care anymore...this country is loosing it's identity by degrees and give it a decade or two we'll have lost it. >:(
+1 :y
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Can`t help thinking if we vote to leave the EU what little manufacturing we have left in this country will die a death. So that means lost jobs. The free market, means we can ship into the euro zone without our customers needing to pay any duty @ their borders. same goes for imports into the UK.
Our high-tech industies currently trading into europe will get hammered by heavy duty rates being imposed on our exports. The company I work for are trying to break into North american markets with little success because the US protects it`s markets in this way. In Japan the rates are even higher. Think of the large euro based companies, Thales for example. They have invested heavily in the UK why because our designers & builders are second to none. Do you really think these companies will stick around & even risk one euro for a british job. Just wondering now how many jobs will go now as we run up to the 2017 vote.
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Can`t help thinking if we vote to leave the EU what little manufacturing we have left in this country will die a death. So that means lost jobs. The free market, means we can ship into the euro zone without our customers needing to pay any duty @ their borders. same goes for imports into the UK.
Our high-tech industies currently trading into europe will get hammered by heavy duty rates being imposed on our exports. The company I work for are trying to break into North american markets with little success because the US protects it`s markets in this way. In Japan the rates are even higher. Think of the large euro based companies, Thales for example. They have invested heavily in the UK why because our designers & builders are second to none. Do you really think these companies will stick around & even risk one euro for a british job. Just wondering now how many jobs will go now as we run up to the 2017 vote.
Says who? ???
That can work both ways. I'm sure Frau Merkel would agree to BMW and Audi being hit by heavy duty rates. ;)
Nah. Just scare stories. Business would carry on as per normal. No-one could afford it not to. :y
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Can`t help thinking if we vote to leave the EU what little manufacturing we have left in this country will die a death. So that means lost jobs. The free market, means we can ship into the euro zone without our customers needing to pay any duty @ their borders. same goes for imports into the UK.
Our high-tech industies currently trading into europe will get hammered by heavy duty rates being imposed on our exports. The company I work for are trying to break into North american markets with little success because the US protects it`s markets in this way. In Japan the rates are even higher. Think of the large euro based companies, Thales for example. They have invested heavily in the UK why because our designers & builders are second to none. Do you really think these companies will stick around & even risk one euro for a british job. Just wondering now how many jobs will go now as we run up to the 2017 vote.
Says who? ???
That can work both ways. I'm sure Frau Merkel would agree to BMW and Audi being hit by heavy duty rates. ;)
Nah. Just scare stories. Business would carry on as per normal. No-one could afford it not to. :y
The free trade agreement will end if exit the EU that`s a fact.
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What are we actually in the EU for? What do we gain by being in it? the thing is i simply dont unerstand the implications of being IN or OUT.
all i know is we spend a lot of money being in it, have our laws made for us and allow any number of migrating folk from europe in.
whats the benefit to us staying in?
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Can`t help thinking if we vote to leave the EU what little manufacturing we have left in this country will die a death. So that means lost jobs. The free market, means we can ship into the euro zone without our customers needing to pay any duty @ their borders. same goes for imports into the UK.
Our high-tech industies currently trading into europe will get hammered by heavy duty rates being imposed on our exports. The company I work for are trying to break into North american markets with little success because the US protects it`s markets in this way. In Japan the rates are even higher. Think of the large euro based companies, Thales for example. They have invested heavily in the UK why because our designers & builders are second to none. Do you really think these companies will stick around & even risk one euro for a british job. Just wondering now how many jobs will go now as we run up to the 2017 vote.
Says who? ???
That can work both ways. I'm sure Frau Merkel would agree to BMW and Audi being hit by heavy duty rates. ;)
Nah. Just scare stories. Business would carry on as per normal. No-one could afford it not to. :y
The free trade agreement will end if exit the EU that`s a fact.
Like Norway and Switzerland don't have trade agreements with the EU. ::)
More important, though, is the fact that I want the UK to be a democratically-independent nation. :y
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I shouln't worry about jobs, the way this lot are going, there won't be any by 2017 :y
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What are we actually in the EU for? What do we gain by being in it? the thing is i simply dont unerstand the implications of being IN or OUT. all i know is we spend a lot of money being in it, have our laws made for us and allow any number of migrating folk from europe in.
whats the benefit to us staying in?
+1 :-\ :-\
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What are we actually in the EU for? What do we gain by being in it? the thing is i simply dont unerstand the implications of being IN or OUT. all i know is we spend a lot of money being in it, have our laws made for us and allow any number of migrating folk from europe in.
whats the benefit to us staying in?
+1 :-\ :-\
F A :y
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If we exit the EU & contriibute nothing to Brussels, the french & germans will use import tariffs as a big stick to hurt us with; they will protect jobs & investment in europe. They won`t give a monkeys about us.
When was the last time you bought something that had made in Norway on it? exactly.
Global companies invest in the UK because we`re part of the EU, The foreign workers are here because we have jobs, but don`t worry they`ll soon bugger off after 2017.
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Fairs fair, Scotland, Ireland and Wales have all been decorated using EU cash :-\
Trouble is WE have paid a hundred times over that money back into Brusssels >:(
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That`s why we needed to re-negotiate our deal with europe from a position of strength.
Now cameron has caved-in & called for a referendum, the french will will piss all over him.
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If we exit the EU & contriibute nothing to Brussels, the french & germans will use import tariffs as a big stick to hurt us with; they will protect jobs & investment in europe. They won`t give a monkeys about us.
When was the last time you bought something that had made in Norway on it? exactly.
Global companies invest in the UK because we`re part of the EU, The foreign workers are here because we have jobs, but don`t worry they`ll soon bugger off after 2017.
Rubbish, we import more from them than they do from us and a sword has two blades. The EU need us more than we need them :y
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If we exit the EU & contriibute nothing to Brussels, the french & germans will use import tariffs as a big stick to hurt us with; they will protect jobs & investment in europe. They won`t give a monkeys about us.
When was the last time you bought something that had made in Norway on it? exactly.
Global companies invest in the UK because we`re part of the EU, The foreign workers are here because we have jobs, but don`t worry they`ll soon bugger off after 2017.
They import more to us than we export to them,so we would be in a position to inflict more pain on them than they would to us,if they were foolish enough to go down that road. ;)
Must type faster etc.... ::)
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The Europhiles will bombard us with scare stories about trade and investment, and indeed last week Milliband commented that we might as well hang the 'Closed' sign up if Britain leaves the EU. ::)
Britain has successfully traded with our continental neighbours for centuries if not millennia and yet we have been members of the Common Market, EEC, EC and latterly the EU for 40 odd years? ::) Business will find a way to carry on doing business and making profits whatever happens politically.... ;)
We have a trade deficit with the rest of Europe, meaning that they sell us more than we sell them. They will want to protect that trade and their profits and so any withdrawal treaty that the UK negotiates will include a free trade agreement with the rest of the EU. :y
For me though the argument is bigger than trade, investment and jobs. I want to live in a free and independent country where the people that make the big decisions that affect my life are elected to office by the people. I want to live in a country where if those people screw up or become tyrannical then they can be got rid of at the ballot box. I don't want to be ruled by unelected commissioners or failed politicians from other countries (or here for that matter remember Commissioner Kinnock?!) who get appointed to office!! >:(
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The Europhiles will bombard us with scare stories about trade and investment, and indeed last week Milliband commented that we might as well hang the 'Closed' sign up if Britain leaves the EU. ::)
Britain has successfully traded with our continental neighbours for centuries if not millennia and yet we have been members of the Common Market, EEC, EC and latterly the EU for 40 odd years? ::) Business will find a way to carry on doing business and making profits whatever happens politically.... ;)
We have a trade deficit with the rest of Europe, meaning that they sell us more than we sell them. They will want to protect that trade and their profits and so any withdrawal treaty that the UK negotiates will include a free trade agreement with the rest of the EU. :y
For me though the argument is bigger than trade, investment and jobs. I want to live in a free and independent country where the people that make the big decisions that affect my life are elected to office by the people. I want to live in a country where if those people screw up or become tyrannical then they can be got rid of at the ballot box. I don't want to be ruled by unelected commissioners or failed politicians from other countries (or here for that matter remember Commissioner Kinnock?!) who get appointed to office!! >:(
agreed..