Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Aundie on 24 January 2013, 16:00:41
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Wondered if anyone has experience of this?
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What a lazy post. A bit more reference would be nice.
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Have lived here for 4 years. Revived a letter from an accounting firm yesterday saying they were now trustees for the property. Phoned them yesterday they want me to send them my lease and all details of all people living here. Have tried to do some research but so much conflicting info! From stop paying to move out soon as possible. Really quite nervous as to what's going to happen.
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No idea if this is still the case or not, and please do NOT take it as "gospel" ...
My brother was in this situation some 30 odd years ago, so things have probably changed, but in his case he spoke to the CAB (or whoever it was then) and was told quite simply ...
The terms of his lease still applied (he had a 2 year lease with the option to give 3 months notice, the landlord had no such option) even though a management firm took over the property and despite their "forceful" letters they had no rights or ability to evict him. He was also advised to tell them that any further attempts would result in a formal accusation of "harassment". This he did and it all went very quiet, he remained in the property for a further year or so before moving.
I obviously don't know the terms of your lease .but I would suggest a quick visit to the CAB armed with a copy of it would get you all the information you need :)
The management/trustees what ever should already have copies of your paperwork .. it is NOT up to you to supply them.
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Sad situation to be in , apart from the CAB do any local solicitors do "free" half hour sessions ? or at the very least try your local council housing dept
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It does depend on your contract. If you started on an AST assured short term lease they normally run for 6 months then after the initial 6 months are up the contract just runs but can be ended by you in writing giving 1 months notice or by the landlord in writing giving you 2 months notice. That's how it was when I was a landlord but may have changed recently
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Oh and I also think it depends on what sort of mortgage he had as well, assuming it was mortgaged
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They won't tell me what kind of mortgage he had as I read if its not a buy to let it could be worse for us as we won't be seen by them as tenants. I have a short assured tenancy with a 2 month notice period. The house was bought in 2008 for 110k according to zoopla and is now worth about 80k. Id like to attempt to buy but my limit just now is about 65k.
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Depending how things go in the near future it might be worth offering your 65k.The time,money and effort it takes to take you through the legal system to leggalu evict you might make it an attractive offer to whoever now owns the property. ;)
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You could panic....or not. Try to look at it calmly....difficult, I know. If you are up to date with your rent and have been a good tenant you must have rights. I don't know what they are but, as advised earlier, CAB or the like would.
Sorry for my curt reply earlier.
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http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/renting_rights/renting_from_a_private_landlord
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I once rented a shop/house premises in the early `70`s,and the landlord went bump for some reason, they offered to sell it to us for £15.000, I would have paid that for the size and location of the property, my financial guy asked me what cash I had available, which was approx £4.500, made an offer of that and they accepted it without a whimper.sold it on later for a very nice profit..
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You could panic....or not. Try to look at it calmly....difficult, I know. If you are up to date with your rent and have been a good tenant you must have rights. I don't know what they are but, as advised earlier, CAB or the like would.
Sorry for my curt reply earlier.
as stmo said you have rights and if the house is being repossed by the bank they usually market the house for the outstanding amount so as said offer your £ 65,000,but i would defo go and speak to your local CAB (or what ever it is in scotland)
as for his curt reply it is a result of him being at deaths door earlier this week :y
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the consumer action group would be a great place to start :y
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old work colleague of mine rented a house for a few years and tried to contact the landlord for repairs, no joy so stopped paying rent, tried really hard to trace the owner, 12 years later never heard a thing and legally claimed the property as she had proof of maintenence and repairs. Was worth 75k at last valuation :y
No relevance to this thread but nice story all the same.
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All I will say is that almost everything is on your side so make the offer sit back and wait to see what happens - DONT PANIC
Might be relevant. 30'ish years ago I was private renting on a short term lease when two suited gents from the Halifax (landlords lenders) appeared at my door. Told me that that he was in arrears and also did not have permission to let the property and handed me a notice of eviction - from them.
Spoke to my dad's solicitor who informed me that there was now a conflict as to who my landlord was so should write to both of them informing them of the conflict and that further rent payments would be held in a separate account, which I would pass on details of if required, until this situation was resolved. He also "unofficially" informed me that most likely I would not have to pay a penny to any of them and should move out within about 6 months.
I had an open ended lodging available to me so eventually got almost 12 months, rent free, before the landlord entered the property and moved all my belongings onto the drive while I was at work. This I was further advised to report to the police and the local council. He was cautioned for B&E and prosecuted by the council for illegal eviction. He was fined £5000.
It was fun, plus a little stressful, at the time but I do like to tell the story - as you can see :y
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I am a landlord and try not to think about it.... ::)
As already said, don't panic! and don't be rushed or talked into anything until you've taken advice! :y I don't think that it matters what kind of mortgage your landlord had as they can't just turf you out and would have to give you notice. You have a tenancy agreement!! ;)
Have a look at the local and national property auction websites. They will usually have a historical section where you can see what similar properties in your area sold at auction for, which is usually much less than the local Estate Agents. If and when the the house is sold it will probably be given to a local Estate Agent for a while before going to auction. If you know roughly what the house might sell at auction for then you can make an offer based on that knowledge! Allsop's are a big London property auctions who dispose of properties from all over the UK and would be a good start for your research. I'm sure that there will be property auctions in Edinburgh and Glasgow that will be worth looking at.
http://www.auction.co.uk/residential/pastAuctions.asp?T=R
Is your landlord still around or has he disappeared? If you were on good terms and you can get hold of him it might be worth a friendly chat to see what you can find out from him. You never know you might even find out how much the mortgage is! ;) .... but then again.. :-\
Good Luck! and keep us posted!! :y
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If your Landlord has gone Bankrupt then its not His problem any more whether He would like it to be or not.
The Official Receiver would have taken a snapshot financial statement at the time of Bankruptcy and frozen His Bank Accounts, Credit and cashflow, made a decision upon those facts, then given guidelines to Independent Accountants (Trustee in Bankruptcy) to deal with ongoing financials.
Really not a straight forward situation, depends on why He went Bankrupt, what monies he owes, how much, what for and to Whom He owes it to, together with any Tangible or potential Assets He has. With regard to His own Property, ie where He lives and subject to other Family members living there, He would normally be given the opportunity to remain there and continue to fund the property untill a decision is made by the Trustee to release and claim any of His equity in the property to repay some or all of the Bankruptcy and Costs.
If the rented property your in is additional property owned by the Landlord (and probably the Bank), then this would be classed as part of the Landlords business and therefore dealt with by the Trustee and any assets of that property to be recovered by the Trustee (and or Bank) at some point. Also depends what monies are owed on the Rented Property, ie, was the Landland seriously behind on Loan or Mortgage payments, if so, then the Bank via the Trustee would seek for eviction of the property in order to sell it. If payments where up to date, then the Trustee with the Banks agreement may continue to receive Rent Payments untill such time that the Trustee take Ownership of the Property with the view to eviction and then sell it. The timescales for the second part can take months sometimes years to complete.
Having said all that, they cant just turf you out on the Street without going through the Legal process, if you stop paying rent now, then you are in breach of your Tenancy Agreement, making it easier for the Trustee or Bank to evict you, your probably find the Trustee are willing to offer you a new Short Term Tenancy Agreement (guessing in their Favour) depending what funds are in the pot. Absolute worst case you will be given something like this, Notice to Quit (28 Days), Notice for Eviction Order (another 28 Days), Court Eviction Notice, if not Appealed against (Normally up to 28 Days before Bailiff Eviction). Any Dependants or Children living in the Rented Property?.
If your serious about buying the Property, then get in touch with the Trustee in Bankruptcy and if possible the Property Lender, find out what there Book Value is (They probably wont know that, untill the House has been Surveyed) and make them an offer, you may find them wanting to take it to Auction at some point, but any serious offer they should take on board especially as you have an invested interest by living there and could potentially save them the hag and cost of evicting you. Worst case it may buy you some more time meanwhile.
Also bear in mind that people (especially with Property) dont go Bankrupt for the fun of it, your Landlord, unless very clever, would have been facing some difficult times and decisions. Its the responsibility of the Trustee to work in the interest of both the Bankruptcy and the Official Receiver, whist aiming to recover as much funds as possible within a given time scale, so deals and offers should always be considered by them, which could be in your favour.
And off course get legal advice now and before making any offers, good luck with it all.
Chris. :y
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They won't tell me what kind of mortgage he had as I read if its not a buy to let it could be worse for us as we won't be seen by them as tenants. I have a short assured tenancy with a 2 month notice period. The house was bought in 2008 for 110k according to zoopla and is now worth about 80k. Id like to attempt to buy but my limit just now is about 65k.
If the landlord has negative equity on the house......the trustee wont be interested in selling it, because the mortgage company will swipe all the sale price. If this is the case and the landlord keeps up the mortgage payments.....he will keep the house.
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Thanks so much for your time folks got a solicitor coming Monday to discuss our options my landlords meeting with accountants also on Monday says he'll keep me posted...
I do believe he's known for a few months as he has split with his partner and now living at his mothers( I think for damage limitation purposes)
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They won't tell me what kind of mortgage he had as I read if its not a buy to let it could be worse for us as we won't be seen by them as tenants. I have a short assured tenancy with a 2 month notice period. The house was bought in 2008 for 110k according to zoopla and is now worth about 80k. Id like to attempt to buy but my limit just now is about 65k.
If the landlord has negative equity on the house......the trustee wont be interested in selling it, because the mortgage company will swipe all the sale price. If this is the case and the landlord keeps up the mortgage payments.....he will keep the house.
If the Trustee takes Ownership of the House or at least the equity that the Bank doesn't own they could decide to hang on for a while before selling it with its Market Value in mind, but the Trustee would be under considerable Time Restraint Rules to do this, aswell as under presure from the Bank, Creditors and Government Body to release its potential fund.
Landlord keeping up payments, do able, but why would He, He'll just be funding the up keep of the property untill such time (within 7 years I think) the Trustee decides to sell the property to release the increased equity value anyway, the only way the landlord can retain the house is for Him or a 3rd Party to cough up the equity value to the Trustee assuming the Mortgage Lender is in agreement.
But you raise a good point TD, 3rd Parties (normally Families and Friends) can normally make an offer of something like 'up to 99p to the £1' offer to the Trustee for property equity fund pay off, Im no expert but this could be another option for the OP if the Mortgage side of things can be agreed.
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Thanks so much for your time folks got a solicitor coming Monday to discuss our options my landlords meeting with accountants also on Monday says he'll keep me posted...
I do believe he's known for a few months as he has split with his partner and now living at his mothers( I think for damage limitation purposes)
Sounds like early days then, yours or their Solicitor?, if you go down the offer route you will need a good Insolvency Solicitor, most will give you Free First Time advise on this, so no harm in shopping around or making some free phone calls for advise. If you get stuck PM me and I'll give you some numbers, I sometimes rub shoulders with one over a Beer or two. ;)
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Oh and I also think it depends on what sort of mortgage he had as well, assuming it was mortgaged
no sorry the mortgage is a contract between the bankrupt owner and the lender. not the tennant. mortgage is not relevant
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let's rewind a bit. there is usually lots of fog in this situation. I'm not a solicitor but I've encountered a few clients going bankrupt.
First. you have a tennancy agreement with someone who is now bankrupt. this agreement remains in force but then the control from the owners point of view passes to the trustees. THey will do what is best to recover the money for the creditors of the bankrupt landlord. BUT they can only carry out what is legal and what is in your contract. This is the key issue. They will tell you all sorts of BS.
first of all, you have no duty to give them the tennancy contract. The bankrupt landlord may need to disclose it but not you. however no reason not to hand it over.
Second the trustees can only act within the power of the contract; so what are the provisions for termination ( if AST then likely to be one month). What are the provisions for rent review ( typically none or few give it can be terminated)
from the trustees point of view they need to maximise the recovery of cash - they might want your agreement to continue, and sell the property with sitting tennants or sell it with vacant possession. the route they take will depend on your tennancy agreement.
Also, be careful, where is your deposit? old tennancy agreements did not require these to be held seperately from the landlords assets, latter ones did. The point is that if you deposit is not held seperately then you are also a creditor and need to lodge a claim under bankruptcy proceedings. If seperate then you are less worried.
From the trustees point of view, it would be expedient to pay the full deposit back to deal with a " difficult tennant" than to hold a few hundred quid back and never shift the property. So watch for bargaining going on
good luck
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Bear in mind that the OP is in Scotland which has a different legal system. I believe tenancy agreements are slightly different to England and Wales and other aspects of this case may differ as well. :-\
If you have an AST in England and Wales your landlord has to give you a minimum of 2 months notice to terminate the contract and gain possession of the property, whereas the tenant can give a minimum of 1 month to terminate and quit. This is assuming that the rent is paid monthly. I'm not sure what the deal is in Scotland... :-\
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Just got a letter from trustee saying they have no interest in running the property and i should be hearing from the lenders shortly. Rent should be due on the first who gets paid? Speaking to Shelter(charity) tomorrow, the solicitor I spoke to was not much use as we lack info just now.
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Sit tight, do your research and don't panic! ;)
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Just got a letter from trustee saying they have no interest in running the property and i should be hearing from the lenders shortly. Rent should be due on the first who gets paid? Speaking to Shelter(charity) tomorrow, the solicitor I spoke to was not much use as we lack info just now.
Put the Cheque or Cash in an envelope and mark it Rent due and date it, keep hold of it on the basis you dont know (not been informed) who to give it to, in theory as good as paying under the circumstances, but be prepared to give the envelope to someone at some point.
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Just got a letter from trustee saying they have no interest in running the property and i should be hearing from the lenders shortly. Rent should be due on the first who gets paid? Speaking to Shelter(charity) tomorrow, the solicitor I spoke to was not much use as we lack info just now.
Put the Cheque or Cash in an envelope and mark it Rent due and date it, keep hold of it on the basis you dont know (not been informed) who to give it to, in theory as good as paying under the circumstances, but be prepared to give the envelope to someone at some point.
Good advice! and if you do pay the rent to the trustees or anyone else make sure you get receipts! ;)
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Just got a letter from trustee saying they have no interest in running the property and i should be hearing from the lenders shortly. Rent should be due on the first who gets paid? Speaking to Shelter(charity) tomorrow, the solicitor I spoke to was not much use as we lack info just now.
Put the Cheque or Cash in an envelope and mark it Rent due and date it, keep hold of it on the basis you dont know (not been informed) who to give it to, in theory as good as paying under the circumstances, but be prepared to give the envelope to someone at some point.
Good advice! and if you do pay the rent to the trustees or anyone else make sure you get receipts! ;)
Yep, other option is to get your solicitor to keep the rent in Escrow until one of the parties can demonstrate that it's due to them. Inform everyone of this arrangement and let them argue the toss.