Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: symes on 28 January 2013, 16:47:57

Title: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: symes on 28 January 2013, 16:47:57
My silver shed - Elite Estate has the useless level system at rear- I dont hear the pump working (were is it located?) and the rear end is up in the air 3-4" + gap from arch to top of wheel so disconnected lever while car running-nothing-is is there a fuse or relay for the chuffing thing or is it best to throw the lot in the scrap bin and fit normal shox :y I cant get back to any replies later as taking mrs to suprise Wedding Anniversary do :y :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2013, 17:03:22
It's not releasing air at the pump, hence it's not responding to the sensor arm.

Pull the air lines off the shock body to release the air for now/if the back gets too high. Then refit them as the bladders will chaif themselves to bits with no air at all in them.

Replace SL pump in the drivers wing behind fog light.


Ps, when/if you remove the airlines be carefull the arch doesn't trap your arm as the car drops. It's quite a slow controlled drop but safety first. Might need a jack to re fit the lines.


And dont be tempted to run it with the relay disconnected as it will destroy the SL shock bladders if driven.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 January 2013, 17:04:04
You'll probably find either the relief valve on the pump is blocked or has failed in some way, or the level sensor has failed.

Pump is up under the offside front wing ahead of the wheelarch liner.

Are you looking at the correct sensor?

From memory the levelling sensor is well inboard by the diff, the one just ahead of the nearside rear wheel being for the headlight levelling.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2013, 17:06:02
Some of the details are covered in the guides section. :)
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 January 2013, 17:07:45
Some of the festivals are covered in the guides section. :)

Oh, good. I was thinking about going to  the Isle of Wight. Might be a little old for Glastonbury and I'm not that keen on mud. Beer festivals, of course, are right up my street. :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: symes on 28 January 2013, 17:15:00
It's not releasing air at the pump, hence it's not responding to the sensor arm.

Pull the air lines off the shock body to release the air for now/if the back gets too high. Then refit them as the bladders will chaif themselves to bits with no air at all in them.

Replace SL pump in the drivers wing behind fog light.


Ps, when/if you remove the airlines be carefull the arch doesn't trap your arm as the car drops. It's quite a slow controlled drop but safety first. Might need a jack to re fit the lines.


And dont be tempted to run it with the relay disconnected as it will destroy the SL shock bladders if driven.
were is it - would rather check if fuse/relay fault before doin strip down as thats common sense really  :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 January 2013, 17:17:26
It won't be the relay as that just activates the pump but it's located in the panel in the driver's footwell. One of the 2 smaller relays on this panel, the other being for the main beam headlamps. Can't remember which one it is.

I doubt the fuse would cause it to stick high. Most likely cause is failure to release air from the system, as said.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2013, 17:18:34
Poxy predictive text.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2013, 17:20:58
It's not fuse or relay related.
Two small black relays very top left of cabin fuse box. If you pull one, make sure your high beam still works.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: symes on 28 January 2013, 17:44:52
Well thanks  for telling me what and were all the bits are-now I have an idea of what to look for on Saturday as car is ok to drive -just back is slightly higher than normal and cannot hear whirring of pump - only been like it today so should be ok for this week - hopefully
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: biggriffin on 28 January 2013, 22:58:31
Got nice pair o s/l shocks sitting here   ::)
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: feeutfo on 28 January 2013, 23:27:21
Well thanks  for telling me what and were all the bits are-now I have an idea of what to look for on Saturday as car is ok to drive -just back is slightly higher than normal and cannot hear whirring of pump - only been like it today so should be ok for this week - hopefully
pump operates on each start up automatically. It pumps up until the sensor arm tells it to stop, it then releases air(if needed) down to the correct ride height.

If the pump cant release air, it will gradually raise the rear on each start until it looks daft. The damping is really poor if its too high as well, do go steady over bumps in corners, as the suspension will just bounce off bumps with no weight in the boot. Dodgy! Especially in the wet.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 24valve on 29 January 2013, 11:26:44
Hi All

I have a question - do all omega elites have this air suspension? - ours seems to sit at the right level and rides o.k, but it bottoms out pretty easily.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I saw regular springs on the back of ours when I washed it, but maybe not.

Tbh, I bloody hope it doesnt have air suspension - the air suspension on our discovery TD5 is the stuff of my nightmares :-(

Neil.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: aaronjb on 29 January 2013, 11:37:23
All Elites (I'm sure of) and some CDX cars (I think) have it - they still have regular springs, the air bladders are in the shock absorber body
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 24valve on 29 January 2013, 11:43:47
All Elites (I'm sure of) and some CDX cars (I think) have it - they still have regular springs, the air bladders are in the shock absorber body


oh, right - that explains things then, thanks.

I wonder if ours doesnt pump up much, which is why it bottoms out easily.  I'll have to do some experimenting at the weekend with it.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: Entwood on 29 January 2013, 11:46:17
Hi All

I have a question - do all omega elites have this air suspension? - ours seems to sit at the right level and rides o.k, but it bottoms out pretty easily.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I saw regular springs on the back of ours when I washed it, but maybe not.

Tbh, I bloody hope it doesnt have air suspension - the air suspension on our discovery TD5 is the stuff of my nightmares :-(

Neil.

It is NOT "air suspension" .. it is "self levelling" suspension ... as said ... standard looking springs and shock absorbers  (although they are a different specification). The shocks have an air bladder that can be inflated to raise the back if a large load is placed therein.

The spring/shock still does most of the work, it is just "supported" by the additional air in the bladder.

I wouldn't be without it, as I tow a lot and it is highly beneficial. Those who don't tow and want to imitate Carlos Fangio or Colin McRae don't like it as the suspension is a good deal "softer"

To test if your has working self leveling, measure the distance between the top of the wheel and the wheel arch. Open the boot and stand two reasonably sized adults in it, make a note of the distance between the top of the rear wheel and the wheel arch, which should be much reduced. Turn the ignition on, you should hear the compressor in the front offside wheel arch start to run, and the rear of the car should rise to about the same as the first measurement. switch off, remove bodies from boot.. rear should rise even higher. Switch on .. rear should slowly drop back to the original height again

HTH  :)
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 24valve on 29 January 2013, 12:07:02
Hi All

I have a question - do all omega elites have this air suspension? - ours seems to sit at the right level and rides o.k, but it bottoms out pretty easily.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I saw regular springs on the back of ours when I washed it, but maybe not.

Tbh, I bloody hope it doesnt have air suspension - the air suspension on our discovery TD5 is the stuff of my nightmares :-(

Neil.

It is NOT "air suspension" .. it is "self levelling" suspension ... as said ... standard looking springs and shock absorbers  (although they are a different specification). The shocks have an air bladder that can be inflated to raise the back if a large load is placed therein.

The spring/shock still does most of the work, it is just "supported" by the additional air in the bladder.

I wouldn't be without it, as I tow a lot and it is highly beneficial. Those who don't tow and want to imitate Carlos Fangio or Colin McRae don't like it as the suspension is a good deal "softer"

To test if your has working self leveling, measure the distance between the top of the wheel and the wheel arch. Open the boot and stand two reasonably sized adults in it, make a note of the distance between the top of the rear wheel and the wheel arch, which should be much reduced. Turn the ignition on, you should hear the compressor in the front offside wheel arch start to run, and the rear of the car should rise to about the same as the first measurement. switch off, remove bodies from boot.. rear should rise even higher. Switch on .. rear should slowly drop back to the original height again

HTH  :)

Excellent information - thanks!

Ours does have a towbar, and I've wondered if it the bracket of the towbar scraping on the ground rather than the suspension banging on the bump stops.  Further investigation with your sugggestion will be commencing this weekend.

Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 05omegav6 on 29 January 2013, 12:18:36
Replace the Elite springs with Plod ones, if the Elite is a bit soft :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: feeutfo on 29 January 2013, 15:07:49
Elite only. And maybe some plod cars.

There is a guide in maintenance for testing. :)
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: henryd on 29 January 2013, 15:56:45
Hi All

I have a question - do all omega elites have this air suspension? - ours seems to sit at the right level and rides o.k, but it bottoms out pretty easily.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I saw regular springs on the back of ours when I washed it, but maybe not.

Tbh, I bloody hope it doesnt have air suspension - the air suspension on our discovery TD5 is the stuff of my nightmares :-(

Neil.

Really,had no issues with mine other than replacing the bags which is easy ???
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 24valve on 29 January 2013, 16:02:08
Hi All

I have a question - do all omega elites have this air suspension? - ours seems to sit at the right level and rides o.k, but it bottoms out pretty easily.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I saw regular springs on the back of ours when I washed it, but maybe not.

Tbh, I bloody hope it doesnt have air suspension - the air suspension on our discovery TD5 is the stuff of my nightmares :-(

Neil.

Really,had no issues with mine other than replacing the bags which is easy ???

Airbags, height sensors, and currently on rebuilt pump number 3 (no, you still cant get compressor parts for the disco, so we've modified a p38 one)

still, all part of the fun, isnt it?!

In all fairness, its a great system when its working - it's just "challenging" on the brain when you are late for something, with 7 people in the car and the thing sinks to the ground on A1.

Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: henryd on 29 January 2013, 18:19:33
Hi All

I have a question - do all omega elites have this air suspension? - ours seems to sit at the right level and rides o.k, but it bottoms out pretty easily.

I could be wrong but I could have sworn I saw regular springs on the back of ours when I washed it, but maybe not.

Tbh, I bloody hope it doesnt have air suspension - the air suspension on our discovery TD5 is the stuff of my nightmares :-(

Neil.

Really,had no issues with mine other than replacing the bags which is easy ???

Airbags, height sensors, and currently on rebuilt pump number 3 (no, you still cant get compressor parts for the disco, so we've modified a p38 one)

still, all part of the fun, isnt it?!

In all fairness, its a great system when its working - it's just "challenging" on the brain when you are late for something, with 7 people in the car and the thing sinks to the ground on A1.

No, but you can for the Audi A6 allroad whch uses the same pump :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: symes on 29 January 2013, 21:44:58
started it up to go to work and heard hissing sound-so got out and looked-the rear end went to normal height-but couldnt hear pump-got funny feeling shox will be of no use except playing aunt sally ;D ;D on Saturday will look at shox+pump-if shagged reckon go normal shoxs as I cant justify throwing too much at it TBH as I dont pull a pikey home
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 January 2013, 01:06:36
started it up to go to work and heard hissing sound-so got out and looked-the rear end went to normal height-but couldnt hear pump-got funny feeling shox will be of no use except playing aunt sally ;D ;D on Saturday will look at shox+pump-if shagged reckon go normal shoxs as I cant justify throwing too much at it TBH as I dont pull a pikey home

Sounds to me like it might have sorted itself out then. Was the hissing from the front offside wheel arch?

If you chuck some weight in the back, start it up then listen around the pump area you will hear it start after a few seconds. Sounds like an electric tyre inflator.

If the pump works and the air is being let out under some conditions, probably worth getting it to a Tech 2, so we can see what's happening inside the ECU.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 05omegav6 on 30 January 2013, 12:23:17
Fitting Non S/L shocks with out changing the springs will only make things worse :-\
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: albitz on 30 January 2013, 12:53:59
Location of S/L pump,with wing and bumper removed. :y

(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Albs59/DSCF1668.jpg)
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: Entwood on 30 January 2013, 12:59:31
I wish I'd had that much access when I changed mine !!!!  :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 05omegav6 on 30 January 2013, 13:04:09
You only needed to drive it onto a set of ramps, reach up and unscrew it ;D
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: albitz on 30 January 2013, 13:04:43
Tbh,I think it may be easier to just whip the front bumper off.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 05omegav6 on 30 January 2013, 13:05:53
Saves digging the ramps out I suppose ::)
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: albitz on 30 January 2013, 13:07:21
Also saves all the crap falling in your eyes and restricted access etc. Depends if bumper self tappers are seized up or not maybe.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: symes on 30 January 2013, 17:51:07
Location of S/L pump,with wing and bumper removed. :y

(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff500/Albs59/DSCF1668.jpg)
Cheers Albitz :y :y But think I found problem
The FUSE HOLDER   yes  said fuse holder=the Terminals that grip on fuse (being GM rubbish) were loose so used a tiny screwdriver to close  them up Put fuse in and now its working again- :y :y :y
Am still going to check it all saturday anyway so that I can familiarize myself to layout and operation  :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: albitz on 30 January 2013, 18:16:40
Result by the sound of it. :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: adey2 on 03 February 2013, 00:55:13
has anyone ever tried standard springs in rather then the softer s/l ones with the shocks still in situ, cause mine has extra weight with lpg tanks wondered b4 i went for it
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: 05omegav6 on 03 February 2013, 01:13:30
If your thinking along those lines, then fit plod springs :y
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: feeutfo on 03 February 2013, 01:31:48
Any springs will work with sl shocks. Mv6, standard, plod(no direct experience but plod do use them with sl), elite springs all fine. :)


Note, if you have elite self levelling springs, these must be used with self levelling shocks, or the car will drag its arris along the ground.
Title: Re: P O S self levelling suspension
Post by: adey2 on 03 February 2013, 02:00:06
i was planning keeping the shocks for the extra help but it is soft on ass end hence thinking fitting harder springs