Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: steve6367 on 30 January 2013, 22:13:37
-
Emmision Control Light is on and the below is stored - any thoughts?
Fault code Code status Code type Definition
P0140 Stored Generic O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P1650 Pending Multiple definitions available:
Mfr-spec Fuel injection pump control module - CAN data bus malfunction
Mfr-spec Malfunction Indicator lamp (MIL) - circuit malfunction
Mfr-spec Service indicator - circuit malfunction
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Freeze Frame data
Fault code Sensor Value
P0140 Sensor values:
Calculated Load 21.57 %
Coolant Temperature 82. C
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 0. %
Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 -11.72 %
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -100. %
Engine Speed 1700 rpm
Vehicle Speed 79 km/h
Ignition Timing Advance 63.50 º
Intake Air Temperature 36.00 ºC
Air Flow Rate (MAF) 0.00 g/s
Absolute Throttle Position 7.06 %
Oxygen Sensor 1 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Oxygen Sensor 2 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Fuel System 1 Status Open Loop (accelerating)
Some live data screen shots to follow shortly. (now below)
Transmission Control Module - the car is also reluctant to change 2nd > 3rd once warm - always works fine when cold. If you blip throttle it will change up.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/transcontmodule.jpg)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/MAF-RPM.jpg)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/lambda2.jpg)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/lambda1.jpg)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/calcloadatidle.jpg)
-
The last photo is at idle in N with aircon off so 'calculated load' seems a little high?
-
Any thoughts anyone? :-\
-
So should I take PO140 literally and change that sensor? Even though it seems to be working in the live data. I note in the freeze frame the MAF is 0.0 g/s which seems wrong.
What MAF g/s would I be expecting at different RPM on a 2.2?
Steve
-
Hmm. P0140 isn't listed for the 2.2.
As you say, O2 sensor activity looks normal, although fuel trim is a little high.
P1650 relates to the engine management light circuit. Might be worth checking if the bulb is OK.
Regarding the transmission error, I would check the connectors on the gearbox ECU, the large multiway connectors behind the battery and those that attach to the auto gearbox are OK in the first instance. Give them a squirt of switch cleaner and a good waggle. Failing that I'll see if there's a procedure for checking the solenoid function. :y
-
Thanks - will check the dash light and connections tomorrow and report back.
Does the MAF reading look sensible to you?
Steve
-
Can anyone tell me if the MAF readings below look sensible with RPM?
Also what is calculated load? It seems very high given its just idling / reving out of gear.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/sttrim-rpm-maf-calcload_zps0a23e534.jpg)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/maf-rpm-engineload-sttrim_zps07a68d32.jpg)
Have reseated the connectors above for gearbox, cleared codes from TCU and they come back imediatly - off to get some switch cleaner and try again.
Since clearing the ECU codes - I have 1650 and nothing else.
Steve
-
Does the engine management light actually work? (not that I can imagine it causing any symptoms if it doesn't).
A little while ago people started posting their live data to help in this type of situation (I think JimBob was one). I don't remember whether anyone posted any data for a 4 pot though :-\
Data for a 4 pot 2.2 & a v6 2.5 can't be that different can it ?...........
-
No its not working - will pop clocks out tomorrow and see if just bulb :-)
-
Reading through previouse owners history tonight it seems the MAF was changed in 03-2011 for a "airflow meter vauxhall 1.6/1.8 £24.99" from "Fiesta-centre (Auto-Sensors).
So I imagine not GM.....
-
Engine management light was just bulb, so that was an easy fix :-)
Still trying to find out if my MAF readings and calculated load are good - anyone have any data from another 2.2?
I have a spreadsheet of all the live data from a reasonable drive if anyone is really keen!
Steve
-
After a couple of hundred miles, light back on and code back. Light came on at lift off when aproaching round about on dual carrageway. Again the recorded MAF reading is 0.0 g/s which seems strange. I am still not sure the MAF readings at idle look right either.
Does anyone have an 2.2 data to compare? Any tests I should be running?
Thanks
Steve
Fault codes
Fault code Code status Code type Definition
P0140 Stored Generic O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1
Sensor 2)
Freeze Frame data
Fault code Sensor Value
P0140 Sensor values:
Calculated Load 18.43 %
Coolant Temperature 86. C
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 0. %
Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 -12.5 %
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 -100. %
Engine Speed 1850 rpm
Vehicle Speed 51 mph
Ignition Timing Advance 63.50 º
Intake Air Temperature 2.00 ºC
Air Flow Rate (MAF) 0.00 g/s
Absolute Throttle Position 7.45 %
Oxygen Sensor 1 - Bank 1 voltage 0.41 V
Oxygen Sensor 2 - Bank 1 voltage 0.42 V
Fuel System 1 Status Open Loop (accelerating)
-
Were you travelling at 51mph when you took that freeze frame?
Short term trim of 100% says (to me) that the ECU is running closed loop and is desperately trying to correct for an over-lean mixture by applying 100% correction.
Why that should be the case is the key :-\
0.0 g/s at idle cannot be correct. Whether the pattern? MAF is faulty or whether there is an intermittent wiring fault that caused the previous MAF to be condemned is for you to find out...........
-
Not had much luck finding what your idle mass flow should be but a very rough guide seems to be about 1g/s for each litre of engine capacity (ie 3.0 litre engine - 3.0 g/s or 10.8 kg/hr, 2.2 litre engine 2.2g/s or 7.9 kg/hr).
Don't shoot me if this is wrong. Usually someone who actually knows the answer would have posted by now :-\
-
The car took the freeze frame when the fault was logged - I read it when I got home. Yes the light came on and the fault and data was logged at 51mpg as I lifted off the slow for a roundabout.
I think "Short term trim bank 2" is not applicable to this engine - being a 4 pot it only has one bank so I think it is the bank 1 values I need to look at.
I can't see how the MAF can be 0.0 g/s when the engine is doing 1850rpm however.
Thanks for your rough numbers - seems my idle reading is high if they are correct, which could also expelling 36% calculated engine load at idle?
Steve
-
Intermittent faults can often be caused by frayed wiring. When you close the throttle the engine will move on the engine mounts. If there is any damage in the cable to the MAF it could choose that moment to lose contact (and give a zero flow reading).
I think I would be using live readings to try and find if flexing the cables in front of the engine could recreate the fault (take care not to catch a sleeve in the auxiliary belt. better to poke it with a stick rather than put your arm in...........)
Also worth checking that the big round multiplug next to the battery is securely plugged together.
-
Reading through previouse owners history tonight it seems the MAF was changed in 03-2011 for a "airflow meter vauxhall 1.6/1.8 £24.99" from "Fiesta-centre (Auto-Sensors).
So I imagine not GM.....
Is this even the correct MAF for your car? It may well be a physical fit & the plug may even be the same, but the working parameters of the sensor may be totally wrong for your 2.2 :-\
-
Andy - thanks - I will give this a go tomorrow. I have also found another 2.2 whose owner is willing to let me plug in so I can get some MAF readings from a known working 2.2.
Phil - that is exactly what I wondered, but when I visited Vauxhall today I decided £180 was too much to spend on a genuine one until I am sure!
Are any aftermarket ok?
Thanks for all the comments.
Steve
-
Might be worth putting your postcode into the bosch dealer locator http://www.boschautoparts.co.uk/bdl/loc_search.asp?strLocator=Product (http://www.boschautoparts.co.uk/bdl/loc_search.asp?strLocator=Product) and phoning round for a price direct from a Bosch agent.
IIRC some items (eg plug leads) are far cheaper direct from a Bosch franchise than they are from VX (but that might be wishful thinking......)
-
Get a working used one from one of the breakers on here ;)
-
Ok so - I have the data from a working 2.2.
MAF at idle - 3.8 g/s
against mine at 7.04 g/s
Full data, including other engine speeds linked below. I will now try and put the "good" data into a guide for others reference.
It does look like my MAF is reading high however.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/klor1mww8doqmvz/TC%202.2%20Salon.csv (https://www.dropbox.com/s/klor1mww8doqmvz/TC%202.2%20Salon.csv)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs7fpdklerwa6rx/My%202.2%20Estate.csv (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs7fpdklerwa6rx/My%202.2%20Estate.csv)
-
So its reading about 13.6 Kg/h on the replacement which is about right for a 4 pot on idle
-
Mark - I didn't fit the MAF to my car the reading were from a 2.2 Salon that is working without faults. I wanted to see if my MAF reading was correct but it seems off. I would have swapped it over, but the owner of the salon was not convinced!
Have now posted a wanted advert to see if any breakers on here has a VX MAF.
Steve
-
Mark - I didn't fit the MAF to my car the reading were from a 2.2 Salon that is working without faults. I wanted to see if my MAF reading was correct but it seems off. I would have swapped it over, but the owner of the salon was not convinced!
Have now posted a wanted advert to see if any breakers on here has a VX MAF.
Steve
So your MAF is reading double what it should be!
Kin ell!
-
Reading through previouse owners history tonight it seems the MAF was changed in 03-2011 for a "airflow meter vauxhall 1.6/1.8 £24.99" from "Fiesta-centre (Auto-Sensors).
So I imagine not GM.....
Thats just brilliant!
It is a common part and was used on the 1.8 and 2.0 16V big blcok units as well (e.g. Astra, Vectra, Corsa etc....no surprise as its a stroked 2.0 which is the same block and design as the 1.8 ).
Engine types X18XE1, Z18XE, Z18XEL, X20XER
Certainly not used on the small block engines (e.g. 1.6 and lower plus the later 1.8's ) which are a TOTALY different injection system
-
Mark - so based on that it not faulty, its just designed for a different engine!
-
Mark - so based on that it not faulty, its just designed for a different engine!
Absolutely, the poor thing is likely to be designed for a max airflow which may well be half that of the 2.2 sensor and hence the high reading at idle.
Its amazing its the same bore and fits in the trunking!
-
Mark - so based on that it not faulty, its just designed for a different engine!
Absolutely, the poor thing is likely to be designed for a max airflow which may well be half that of the 2.2 sensor and hence the high reading at idle.
Its amazing its the same bore and fits in the trunking!
I thought Steve wrote that the bore looked dirty & original & only the electronic sensor looked shiny :-\
My suspicion is that a wiring fault prompted someone to fit a new (incorrect) sensor.
-First task is to get the correct sensor fitted.
-Second task is to fix the original fault ::)
-
Ok, the plot thickens!
My seimens genuine MAF arrived and I fitted it, checked live data and MAF readings much closer to the known good 2.2 I tested. Went for a drive and bliss 1, 2, 3 and lockup all at sensible revs no holding 2nd at 40mph plus. Great I think, but when I pull up and stop idle is very rough and it almost stalls. Switch off, good look around, check connections etc no change - new plugs and swap coil pack for known good one and still no change. If I unplug MAF revs rise and its a little less rough but not correct. Fine if you keep moving, but if you have to stop and pull away it not good! No lights on dash and no codes logged (other than me unplugging MAF).
Any thoughts? I am not quite sure what to do now other than out the old MAF back and return to holding gears! :-(
Many thanks
Steve
-
As I wrote above
First task is to get the correct sensor fitted :y
Second task is to fix the original fault :(
Stick with it :y (the new sensor)
Are you able to reset the long term trims?
What are the live readings saying when the idle goes lumpy?
-
Andy,
Thank you, was just slightly disappointed.
I will try and get some live data up on here from while it is lumpy. Unfortunately my laptop based system does not allow fuel trim reset only switch of service lights. I guess the trim could be out with all the running on wrong MAF? Any benefit in going for a motorway run or will it take hundreds of miles for the long term trim to adjust?
Thanks again
Steve
-
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't disconnecting the battery reset the fuel trims?
-
If it does I can do that, I have readio code to reset that.
Steve
-
Ok so I went for a drive - more of a crawl by the end before it died completly. By the end of the drive before it stalled, the short term fuel trim was up at 25% (from 11%) and now it simply wont start.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/run1_zpsa40afb85.jpg)
While is was working gear changes and other data looked ok - does 25% mean it is trying to make the mixture very rich?
Steve
-
Not an expert on live data by any means but I'd have thought 25% trim meant the ecu was trying to put more fuel into the mix.
Could there be unmetered air getting in there which the system is trying to compensate for, which may explain why the previous maf was flagged as faulty?
Have you tried spraying carb cleaner around the engine to look for air leaks?
-
Not tried with carb cleaner, I will have a go if I can get it to run.
Thanks
-
Todays update - battery disconnected for an hour, but long term trim stays at -12.5%.
Started (just) and running very rough - this is a cold start and so in open loop, does this mean it is not using MAF / Lamda etc? Getting worse as it runs (30 seconds), so I switch it off before it get warm enough to get to closed loop.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/coldstartmisfire_zps3b93aed2.jpg)
Steve
-
I have not got any experience of the 2.2. Does it have an EGR (exhaust gas recirculation valve). I seem to recall discussions about how they can stick open and cause rough running (but don't know if you even have one :-\)
Really need The Boy or Kevin Wood to give some input here.............
-
Andy, thank you I will take a look and see if it does have one.
I have put the old MAF back in now and it does run properly at least which has allowed me to check for air leaks - can't see anything though.
So I am not sure what is happening now! Do I have 1 wrong MAF and a a correct but faulty one? Or some underlying problem that I dont understand?
Steve
-
Does your scanner allow you to see the 'long term trims'?
It seems to me that your ECU has learned from the incorrect MAF and has saved way out settings for the long term trims. You probably have the correct MAF now but the ECU is applying the (wrong) long term trims.
I think you need to get to someone with Tech2 and try fitting your new MAF then reset the long term trims.
-
Yes long term trim is at -12.50% - The known good Omega 2.2 I tested had a long term trim of +11.72, so very different to mine.
Maybe time to make it work with wrong MAF and take a trip to see Kevin as you say.
My only other thought is that it does run so long as you keep going with new MAF, so if I went for a decent drive when its quiet will that change the long term trim, or is it calculated over thousands of miles?
Steve
-
Todays update - battery disconnected for an hour, but long term trim stays at -12.5%.
Started (just) and running very rough - this is a cold start and so in open loop, does this mean it is not using MAF / Lamda etc? Getting worse as it runs (30 seconds), so I switch it off before it get warm enough to get to closed loop.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/steve6367/Omega/coldstartmisfire_zps3b93aed2.jpg)
Steve
Sorry - wasn't paying full attention to all the information in front of me.
Long term trims should be (are?) stored in non volatile memory (so they don't get lost when battery disconnected).
If the "wrong" MAF was for a much smaller engine it probably gave a linear reading up to (say) 1/2 of your engines maximum mass flow. After that it couldn't give a larger reading (because it was already at 100%). Your ECU has probably learned that the "wrong" MAF is exaggerating how much air is flowing so has applied -12.5% long term trim to try and compensate. Driving around on small throttle openings is probably OK but any time you open the throttle and get more air than the "wrong" MAF can cope with will mean that the ECU isn't aware that more fuel is required.
Fitting the correct MAF now means that the car is undriveable once it warms up because -12.5% is far too lean. It probable starts OK and runs OK until the engine is warm because of the cold start enrichment :-\
Definitely get Kevin on the case if he is available :y
I still worry that there may be something that caused the original owner to fit a new (wrong) MAF that hasn't been identified yet. If you are lucky the original fault was correctly identified as being the MAF but incorrectly fixed with the wrong MAF.
-
I have not got any experience of the 2.2. Does it have an EGR (exhaust gas recirculation valve). I seem to recall discussions about how they can stick open and cause rough running (but don't know if you even have one :-\)
Really need The Boy or Kevin Wood to give some input here.............
Fingers crossed they see it soon then :-)
-
Kevin or The Boy did have any thoughts, people keep suggesting your the mostly likely to know about such things :-)
Any thoughts much appreciated.
Steve
-
Update - I had the learned values (including longterm fuel trim) reset this afternoon, fitted new MAF again and the car runs well.
Clearly time will tell, but initially its looking good :-)
Thank you for the advise Andy.
-
Update - I had the learned values (including longterm fuel trim) reset this afternoon, fitted new MAF again and the car runs well.
Clearly time will tell, but initially its looking good :-)
Thank you for the advise Andy.
Good news :y