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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 11:18:51

Title: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 11:18:51
When the weather improves I'm going to treat my 2.2 to new suspension, it did well over past few months and its long over due  ::)

I don't want Poly bushes, they will no doubt highlight other issues. For my needs I want ride comfort, I don't push a car hard enough to warrant poly.

So question is, cheapy wishbones or premium ones like Lemforder? 

What about getting a used set from a breaker for pennies, then re-bush with GM?  :-\ - Along with replacement ball joints?  :-\

Ideally want to have replacement ready & just do a straight swap, along with track rods, so its ready for WIM. Rather than remove current ones then refurb them & have to wait.
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Abiton on 05 February 2013, 11:46:58
Depends really how long you think the car is good for.
More than a couple of years - re-bush a spare set with genuine bits from AndyC.
Less than a couple of years - stick anything on there. 

Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 11:50:17
Bar a self destructing engine, or accident, I intend to keep it.

So thinking re-bushed GM might be the way, what are the rough costs of genuine bits?
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Lazydocker on 05 February 2013, 11:59:43
If you can get an old set and re-bush it's not massive money. I've had mixed results with cheap ones from the same supplier so they really are pot luck. I'd probably go down the re-bushing route or try the Merle ones :-\
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: RobG on 05 February 2013, 12:04:42
Genuine balljoints are around £30 each on TC, not sure about WB bushes
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Abiton on 05 February 2013, 12:05:34
Some out-of-date pricing info here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 12:06:28
Genuine balljoints are around £30 each on TC, not sure about WB bushes

Thats quite a bit, half the cost of Lemforder wishbone  :-\

So adding in cost of bush itself, maybe £50 each side? Then got to get an old set to re-do...

£65 ish each from allgerman.

Wonder if its worth the hassle  :(  :-\
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 12:08:17
Some out-of-date pricing info here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863

Fantastic, thanks.

Its more expensive than I was thinking  :o

So even 3 years ago its:

Re-Bushing of Orginal Arms ( you'll need a press)
Single Arm
Horz' Bush £24.41
Vert' Bush £12.52
Horz' Bolt £2.75
Vert' Bolt £2.42
Nuts x 2 £4.22
Total £46.32
or
£74.47 with ball Joint ( B/J @TC Price)

£10 more than brand new Lemforder?  ???  :-\
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: RobG on 05 February 2013, 12:10:49
Quote
Wonder if its worth the hassle
No brainer really Mark
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 12:18:03
Quote
Wonder if its worth the hassle
No brainer really Mark

Plus I don't have access to a press.

Think if it was significantly cheaper might have been worth a go, but think I'm just going to have to lump it and buy from allgerman
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 February 2013, 13:05:59
Frankly, I would go poly on the front bush for longevity if nothing else. It really makes no sense to use rubber bushes here and I'm not aware of any "other issues" that it could highlight. :-\ 

If the rear bush has had it just get a genuine or Merle new one and get it pressed in. It's nowhere near as difficult to press in as the front bush anyway.

If you don't change the arms themselves, chances are that a geometry setup won't be needed.

Obviously you could prep new arms beforehand, but then I'd suggest that a journey to WIM would be too far to avoid trashing a set of tyres if it throws the alignment out as much as it did on mine.

But.. it all comes back to what has failed on your current wishbones? If it's the front bush, get under it with a saw and fit poly bushes. A much better option than prepping new lower arms with new bushes, then changing the whole arm, then off to WIM...
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Abiton on 05 February 2013, 13:06:57
Some out-of-date pricing info here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863

Fantastic, thanks.

Its more expensive than I was thinking  :o

So even 3 years ago its:

Re-Bushing of Orginal Arms ( you'll need a press)
Single Arm
Horz' Bush £24.41
Vert' Bush £12.52
Horz' Bolt £2.75
Vert' Bolt £2.42
Nuts x 2 £4.22
Total £46.32
or
£74.47 with ball Joint ( B/J @TC Price)

£10 more than brand new Lemforder?  ???  :-\

Don't forget to add VAT too.  ;D

TBH I didn't use genuine BJs so they were only £15 ea (with fixings) IIRC , and I negotiated a cheap(er) deal with my local Vx who had a full set of 4 bushes on the shelf, and didn't want to have.
Don't need a press to do the swap, as I've shown many times, but possibly a bit more 'engineering willingness' than you have.
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 13:32:30
Frankly, I would go poly on the front bush for longevity if nothing else. It really makes no sense to use rubber bushes here and I'm not aware of any "other issues" that it could highlight. :-\ 

If the rear bush has had it just get a genuine or Merle new one and get it pressed in. It's nowhere near as difficult to press in as the front bush anyway.

If you don't change the arms themselves, chances are that a geometry setup won't be needed.

Obviously you could prep new arms beforehand, but then I'd suggest that a journey to WIM would be too far to avoid trashing a set of tyres if it throws the alignment out as much as it did on mine.

But.. it all comes back to what has failed on your current wishbones? If it's the front bush, get under it with a saw and fit poly bushes. A much better option than prepping new lower arms with new bushes, then changing the whole arm, then off to WIM...

Thanks Kevin as always  :y

All the bushes must be shagged as I've not touched the wishbones ever on the 2.2, gone from 84k to 161k  in my ownership. I've been under, got big breaker bar on that front bush, there is movement. But not sure if its excessive  :-\

Perhaps a visit to assessment from our suspension expert might be in order  ::)
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 13:40:16
Frankly, I would go poly on the front bush for longevity if nothing else. It really makes no sense to use rubber bushes here and I'm not aware of any "other issues" that it could highlight. :-\ 

If the rear bush has had it just get a genuine or Merle new one and get it pressed in. It's nowhere near as difficult to press in as the front bush anyway.

If you don't change the arms themselves, chances are that a geometry setup won't be needed.

Obviously you could prep new arms beforehand, but then I'd suggest that a journey to WIM would be too far to avoid trashing a set of tyres if it throws the alignment out as much as it did on mine.

But.. it all comes back to what has failed on your current wishbones? If it's the front bush, get under it with a saw and fit poly bushes. A much better option than prepping new lower arms with new bushes, then changing the whole arm, then off to WIM...

Just recall various posts from those who have poly'd saying it highlighted other suspension issues  :-\

Fairly sure that rear one has had it too, so that means WB out. Might have to speak with little fatty as to where he got his replacements pressed in  :-\
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Elite Pete on 05 February 2013, 14:01:03
Some out-of-date pricing info here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280919863

Fantastic, thanks.

Its more expensive than I was thinking  :o

So even 3 years ago its:

Re-Bushing of Orginal Arms ( you'll need a press)
Single Arm
Horz' Bush £24.41
Vert' Bush £12.52
Horz' Bolt £2.75
Vert' Bolt £2.42
Nuts x 2 £4.22
Total £46.32
or
£74.47 with ball Joint ( B/J @TC Price)

£10 more than brand new Lemforder?  ???  :-\

But surely if the Lemforder ones are only lasting a couple of years then rebushing is the way to go
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 February 2013, 14:01:47
There's quite a lot of movement on the front bush anyway. The question is how much force is needed to deflect it. It probably needs a "trained hand" to know, TBH.

Suppose I ought to mention Curry? :P

It's a fair assumption that the front bushes won't be great, and probably the rears too. My approach would still be a genuine/decent rear bush, a poly bush and refit the existing wishbones as that would be a longer lasting fix, IMHO.
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 February 2013, 14:03:16
Oh, probably ought to check mine (again! they were fine last night!) after some stupid witch in a Range Rover 3 times too big for her forced me off the road and up a bank this morning. >:(
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 14:04:39
There's quite a lot of movement on the front bush anyway. The question is how much force is needed to deflect it. It probably needs a "trained hand" to know, TBH.

Suppose I ought to mention Curry? :P

It's a fair assumption that the front bushes won't be great, and probably the rears too. My approach would still be a genuine/decent rear bush, a poly bush and refit the existing wishbones as that would be a longer lasting fix, IMHO.

Sounds like a plan to me, along with curry in-between  ::)

Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Lazydocker on 05 February 2013, 14:30:46
There's quite a lot of movement on the front bush anyway. The question is how much force is needed to deflect it. It probably needs a "trained hand" to know, TBH.

If Tunnie can move it then it's probably too much :-X :P :D
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 14:32:47
There's quite a lot of movement on the front bush anyway. The question is how much force is needed to deflect it. It probably needs a "trained hand" to know, TBH.

If Tunnie can move it then it's probably too much :-X :P :D

I should clarify what moves when I push on the breaker bar, its me, not the bush  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: aaronjb on 05 February 2013, 14:33:07
A 12" long persuader screwdriver and little pressure is required to make mine flop around like .. a floppy thing. I think that might be the definition of "past their best"..

If Tunnie needs a breaker bar, maybe they're not as bad as all that!  ;D
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 05 February 2013, 14:34:19
A 12" long persuader screwdriver and little pressure is required to make mine flop around like .. a floppy thing. I think that might be the definition of "past their best"..

If Tunnie needs a breaker bar, maybe they're not as bad as all that!  ;D

Do I smell a wishbone party with curry and extra crisps?  ::)
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: aaronjb on 05 February 2013, 14:36:26
A 12" long persuader screwdriver and little pressure is required to make mine flop around like .. a floppy thing. I think that might be the definition of "past their best"..

If Tunnie needs a breaker bar, maybe they're not as bad as all that!  ;D

Do I smell a wishbone party with curry and extra crisps?  ::)

Well, I do have a nice damp warm garage here.. although I think Chris might be afraid to set foot in it after I roped him in to wrestling with a stinky Jaguar diff last time he was here ;D
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Lazydocker on 05 February 2013, 14:46:14
A 12" long persuader screwdriver and little pressure is required to make mine flop around like .. a floppy thing. I think that might be the definition of "past their best"..

If Tunnie needs a breaker bar, maybe they're not as bad as all that!  ;D

Do I smell a wishbone party with curry and extra crisps?  ::)

Someone say Curry and Crisps? ::)
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 February 2013, 19:39:40
I haven't had curry since, errr, last night ::)
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Lazydocker on 05 February 2013, 19:47:15
I haven't had curry since, errr, last night ::)

Been quite a while since I had one :'( :'(
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: feeutfo on 05 February 2013, 22:05:08
Who's this expert I keep hearing about? :-\ ...

Needs a look up its skirt first. ;)

What's the betting? Any other car would have its suspension arms dragging along clonking and clanging behind it by now, in a "just married" stylee. :D ;D

But then we have the Tunsters driving style applying absolutely zero stress to the chassis.

Bah, who am I kidding. It's all shagged isn't it. ;D


Bring it round Mark, lets have a look at the bugger. But i suspect advice will be the same as on the 3.2. Iirc...?


Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 February 2013, 23:14:24
Bring it round Mark, lets have a look at the bugger. But i suspect advice will be the same as on the 3.2. Iirc...?

What would that be? "Too powerful for your driving style" :D
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: feeutfo on 06 February 2013, 14:40:03
Btw, I have yet to encounter a "cheap" wishbone that wasn't fit for the bin from new, due to utterly appalling bushes.

You may hear story's about reasonable life from some cheap makes, but unless they are cut open to on firm the innards there is no way of knowing what the construction is like.

Don't go there.
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 06 February 2013, 15:42:26
I haven't had curry since, errr, last night ::)

Been quite a while since I had one :'( :'(

Have to get you around  :y

Who's this expert I keep hearing about? :-\ ...

Needs a look up its skirt first. ;)

What's the betting? Any other car would have its suspension arms dragging along clonking and clanging behind it by now, in a "just married" stylee. :D ;D

But then we have the Tunsters driving style applying absolutely zero stress to the chassis.

Bah, who am I kidding. It's all shagged isn't it. ;D


Bring it round Mark, lets have a look at the bugger. But i suspect advice will be the same as on the 3.2. Iirc...?




Cheers Chris  :y

Is it actually worth bringing it around for a check? Thing is if we are going to effort of replacing front bush, might as well do rear while there?

Still in two minds, just stick lemforder in there or poly front and genuine rear on current ones :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Given I've done 80k at least on current set, would my driving style destroy new ones as quickly as some have suggested? Somehow I doubt it, I tend to get much more from things like tyres than anyone else :-\
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: feeutfo on 06 February 2013, 16:00:03
IMO, just fit lemforder or Merle wishbones. Then fit poly if the front bush fails later.

I have yet to fit rear donuts to any gay pot. But there Is always a first time.

There's a few perfectly good rear donuts knocking about now some people have fitted poly donuts. So don't go buying any of those. :)


Are you doing shocks and springs?
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: feeutfo on 06 February 2013, 16:21:47
There have been instances where front polys have shown up wheel balance issues that where not there on oe buggered bushes. Btw.

Dinged or bent wheels especially. Although IMO, poly give the rearward bush an easier time, as there is less yaw on the wishbone rear bush pivot under braking. Marginal, but it helps.
Title: Re: Cheap Wishbones or Lemforder?
Post by: tunnie on 06 February 2013, 16:39:43
Both front shocks and rear are quite new, within last 20k or so Got Boge springs on rear, still good I think, not intending to replace unless one snaps. Avoiding KYB they appear to rust badly  :-\

So its just wishbones, think i'll just stick Lemforder in, Merle considerably more, although was impressed with their droplinks.

Might wait until my credit card resets for the month & order a pair week after next  :)