Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STMO123 on 06 February 2013, 19:28:06
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http://www.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/10206396.Pensioner_dies_after_being_left_to_starve_for_nine_days/
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Horrific,tragic, heartbreaking,but sadly not a big surprise. :(
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inexcusable.. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I dont believe eye to eye rule.. but this time different.. let those responsibles starve to death tied to a bed >:( >:( >:(
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This has really got to me. I can feel myself welling up. But, as usual, it won't be long before my grief turns to anger.
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Absolutely terrible and a sad inditement on our health and care systems. I sure they will say sorry, we will learn lessons and then carry on the same till next time will be the official response.
What has happened in the Stafford health care region where 1,200 people died unnecessarily is another serious blot on our, in places, 3rd world health system.
It wasn't many years a go due to widespread hospital (largely avoidable through proper cleanliness) diseases that the NHS were killing about 100 people per week which was over 5000 per year.
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This has really got to me. I can feel myself welling up. But, as usual, it won't be long before my grief turns to anger.
Yep, me too. :'(
Who is really at fault ? Apparently folk had been assigned to take over the caring duties.
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Im sure plausible reasons will be given,and no-one in particular will be to blame. >:(
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Yep another no one sacked scenario. Not my job. :y
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what a load of crap if they made alternate arangments for her why did nobody come to look after her why .. because no arangments wre made if they did she would be alive to day in outher words they couldnt givee a toss just like local councils all over ... a case of im alright jack break you what about her family or couldent the council aforg the phone call or couldnt anybody be arsed :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Very sad,I hope someone is found responsible and punished,that's no way to die :'(
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Very sad,I hope someone is found responsible and punished,that's no way to die :'(
>:( >:( i hope so but these things are normaly swept under the carpet wih every body covering there own and every body arse to save there meaningless little jobs i.e you scratch my back and you will keep your job & pension >:( >:( >:(
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This, and Stafford, just shows the state of the NHS. When will people stop burying their heads in the sand, stop looking at the world through rose tinted spectacles.....and look at reality
Another reason to cancel HS2.....spend the money where it is really needed and get this NHS crap to how it is supposed to be......
Stop closing hospitals, then saying things like there are not enough beds. The whole of the NHS wants a damn good shake up, and as the report states..'Start putting care first'
I live between two massive hospitals, Wycombe and Amersham.......but if I need an ambulance, I am carted 20 miles away to Stoke Mandeville which is a Sh1thole in itself !!!!!!
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My local hospital in colchester is now also under the glare of publicity due to the number of deaths etc. there.Im not in the least surprised.Most of its depts. really arent fit for purpose.
Imo the NHS problems are nothing to do with money.In fact I think it has too much money and too many enployees.Its much more about quite a lot of people who now work in it,who have grown up in a generation where public service and caring for others needs before your own are alien concepts.
I agree that it needs a damn good shake up though.
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OOOH .. a nice lot of "non-reading", supposition and even a few lies to follow !! Good even for here .
This poor lady was under the care of a PRIVATE HEALTH COMPANY - nothing at all to do with the NHS - that was closed down by the Border Agency for employing illegal immigrants.
I repeat .. no link with the NHS at all
When closed down the "paperwork" that existed was taken away, at which point the problem may have occured.
It is not yet known whether she was listed in the paperwork and missed by the police/social services, or if the company had simply not listed her as a "client" - That is what the inquiry is attempting to discover.
So why not wait until the facts are known rather than making up a few of your own ???
What happened was appalling, and must never happen again, but some of the rhetoric here is simply stupid.
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Agreed,this particular case wasnt connected to the NHS.I was replying to the previous post which mentioned the NHS -I veered off on a tangent,as threads often do on OOF. ;)
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OOOH .. a nice lot of "non-reading", supposition and even a few lies to follow !! Good even for here .
This poor lady was under the care of a PRIVATE HEALTH COMPANY - nothing at all to do with the NHS - that was closed down by the Border Agency for employing illegal immigrants.
I repeat .. no link with the NHS at all
When closed down the "paperwork" that existed was taken away, at which point the problem may have occured.
It is not yet known whether she was listed in the paperwork and missed by the police/social services, or if the company had simply not listed her as a "client" - That is what the inquiry is attempting to discover.
So why not wait until the facts are known rather than making up a few of your own ???
What happened was appalling, and must never happen again, but some of the rhetoric here is simply stupid.
just to make things clear i did not mention the nhs i said the council because they have the records of all the old people that require looking after and it it them to blame for this lady dieing not the nhs they must hve been in formed that the raid was going to hapeh and should have taken the appropreate measures to make sure these people were looked after not the hospitals
but i understand your concerns mr entwood yes people not reading the report and jumping to conclusions :y :y :y
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Yes....my comments were made to the general state of the NHS, I did not declare that the first subject was NHS. My comments which I stick with are that if the NHS was as what it was originally set out to be, all care, medical or other should be overseen by the NHS. Old people should not be in the 'care' (said with tongue in cheek), of private entities. Who knows whether the situation would have happened if the home was under NHS obligations. Stafford has proved it can happen within the NHS, so that particular situation cannot be answered
So, as I said, the NHS (mainly its admin) wants a great big kick up the arris, and when sorted, all things medical in this country under its wing.
Another thing you hear is....'Its not the people who work for the NHS, the nurses are lovely'....yes, most are......but Stafford, and a good few other cases raised to the fore, within or outside the NHS, show this is not always the case.
And as to Social Services.......they are the pits !!! We have been waiting for a phone call now for 4 months regarding my mother, and despite call after call, with the usual 'we will ring you back'........nothing, total diddley squat >:( It would not suprise me at all if one of their internal dictats was 'Leave contact as long as possible, patient may die, then not our problem'
As in most things....money is the root of all evil ;)
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The man who was in charge of the strategic health authority responsible for overseeing Stafford health trust when it was treating its patients like the Japanese treated their prisoners of war was a man named David Nicholson.He was in the job up to 2006 (scandal was from 2005 ) until Tony Blair promoted him.
He was promoted to chief executive of the NHS on £270,000 p.a plus benefits.He says he doesnt see why he should resign as it wasnt his fault.It was a system failure.Sounds almost Soviet speak to me,but then maybe thats because he is a former member of the British Communist party.He was on the "Tankie" wing of the party,which idolised Brezhnev and strongly supported military action by the Kremlin to crush dissidents within the Soviet Union. ::)
He was the man who refused to cancel the NHS I.T. system which in the end cost taxpayers almost £13 billion,before it was proved to be completely useless.
So far he has enjoyed Camerons full support.Despite the fact he travels to conferences by first class travel,while the health secretary travels on the same train without using first class.His travel arrangements have come under scrutiny because its suspected that some of his claims were for travelling to see a young trainee who worked in his office.He later divorced his wife and married the young woman.She then rose very quickly through the ranks and became CEO of Birmingham childrens hospital. While she was there the healthcare commission delivered a devastating report over a catalogue of patient failure at the hospital.
The result was that two years later at the age of 32 she was promoted again to Chief executive, on a salary of £155,000 p.a.
His expenses claims for a four year period were the same as her salary (£155,000),including annual allownace for his London flat which was triple the amount MP,s get for second home allowances.
Gravy train,jobs for the boys (and girls) ? Nah,thats just a vicious Daily Mail rumour. ;)
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A sad case indeed.
I personaly hate the NH (I never ad the S as the service part went years ago) and I would not put another single penny into it.
And why, because its not cash that is the problem and it will consume every penny you throw at it with little if any return.
The NH needs to be customer focused (which its not) which is why I have some support for the proposed GP's controling where my money is spent for my treatment.
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The man who was in charge of the strategic health authority responsible for overseeing Stafford health trust when it was treating its patients like the Japanese treated their prisoners of war was a man named David Nicholson.He was in the job up to 2006 (scandal was from 2005 ) until Tony Blair promoted him.
He was promoted to chief executive of the NHS on £270,000 p.a plus benefits.He says he doesnt see why he should resign as it wasnt his fault.It was a system failure.Sounds almost Soviet speak to me,but then maybe thats because he is a former member of the British Communist party.He was on the "Tankie" wing of the party,which idolised Brezhnev and strongly supported military action by the Kremlin to crush dissidents within the Soviet Union. ::)
He was the man who refused to cancel the NHS I.T. system which in the end cost taxpayers almost £13 billion,before it was proved to be completely useless.
So far he has enjoyed Camerons full support.Despite the fact he travels to conferences by first class travel,while the health secretary travels on the same train without using first class.His travel arrangements have come under scrutiny because its suspected that some of his claims were for travelling to see a young trainee who worked in his office.He later divorced his wife and married the young woman.She then rose very quickly through the ranks and became CEO of Birmingham childrens hospital. While she was there the healthcare commission delivered a devastating report over a catalogue of patient failure at the hospital.
The result was that two years later at the age of 32 she was promoted again to Chief executive, on a salary of £155,000 p.a.
His expenses claims for a four year period were the same as her salary (£155,000),including annual allownace for his London flat which was triple the amount MP,s get for second home allowances.
Gravy train,jobs for the boys (and girls) ? Nah,thats just a vicious Daily Mail rumour. ;)
Course it is, Albs :y
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The man who was in charge of the strategic health authority responsible for overseeing Stafford health trust when it was treating its patients like the Japanese treated their prisoners of war was a man named David Nicholson.He was in the job up to 2006 (scandal was from 2005 ) until Tony Blair promoted him.
He was promoted to chief executive of the NHS on £270,000 p.a plus benefits.He says he doesnt see why he should resign as it wasnt his fault.It was a system failure.Sounds almost Soviet speak to me,but then maybe thats because he is a former member of the British Communist party.He was on the "Tankie" wing of the party,which idolised Brezhnev and strongly supported military action by the Kremlin to crush dissidents within the Soviet Union. ::)
He was the man who refused to cancel the NHS I.T. system which in the end cost taxpayers almost £13 billion,before it was proved to be completely useless.
So far he has enjoyed Camerons full support.Despite the fact he travels to conferences by first class travel,while the health secretary travels on the same train without using first class.His travel arrangements have come under scrutiny because its suspected that some of his claims were for travelling to see a young trainee who worked in his office.He later divorced his wife and married the young woman.She then rose very quickly through the ranks and became CEO of Birmingham childrens hospital. While she was there the healthcare commission delivered a devastating report over a catalogue of patient failure at the hospital.
The result was that two years later at the age of 32 she was promoted again to Chief executive, on a salary of £155,000 p.a.
His expenses claims for a four year period were the same as her salary (£155,000),including annual allownace for his London flat which was triple the amount MP,s get for second home allowances.
Gravy train,jobs for the boys (and girls) ? Nah,thats just a vicious Daily Mail rumour. ;)
Well put. We watched him on TV and immediately wondered why he wasn't sacked AND his benefits reduced. It makes me laugh, the NH ( I like your dropping of the S, Mark) should be customer focussed. Wouldn't you wonder why no one has thought of that before. Times we have been at family members bedside and asked why such and such treatment has been discontinued? Why the patient isn't allowed anything by mouth (been put on path of death without telling us). Why are the notes on the patients charts unintelligible to the family? Why can you never find or speak to anyone who actually knows anything? Why don't nurses do a patrol every hour minimum? I would love to have had a go at shaking them up.
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>:( >:( the council are denighing any knowlage of this aparantly the paper work given to them by the police & the care company was dicarded as far as they know nobody needed any care because the paper work had gone missing .it was the nurses at the hospital who phoned the police who are now investigating it as manslaughter because they know that the council wae given paper work because they gave them it >:( >:( >:(
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Obviously there will be denials....its always someone else's fault. I too, could not believe the attitude of that man at the top. Despicable >:(
The whole system, private and NH need thoroughly purging, people must be taken to account for these attrocities. If it costs, so be it. The long term savings will benefit all.
Then the whole system wants re-launching, clear rules, and regulations, with people in high places knowing what the consequencies of failure will mean to them (and I am not talking a slap on the wrist). Independant regular checks on all aspects.
Postcode lotteries for treatment must go in there entirety.......and financial profits plus 'jobs for the boys and girls' a thing of the past.
Then, once again, maybe the NH can become the NHS and rise to its once, long ago, achieved status.
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Imo it needs the power taken away from the public sector unions before that can begin to happen.They are strong and militant and the powers that be from hospital managers right up to the government are scared witless of them. ;)
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Imo it needs the power taken away from the public sector unions before that can begin to happen.They are strong and militant and the powers that be from hospital managers right up to the government are scared witless of them. ;)
Maybe the health sector unions, Albs, but certainly not the teaching unions. They are a laughing stock nowadays because the government and senior management know that, quite rightly, teachers will not lose pay over lost causes. Their leaders still huff and puff but the days of blowing the house down are long gone.
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Sounds like things are heading in the right direction in education then Steve. :y
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My local hospital in colchester is now also under the glare of publicity due to the number of deaths etc. there.Im not in the least surprised.Most of its depts. really arent fit for purpose.
Imo the NHS problems are nothing to do with money.In fact I think it has too much money and too many enployees.Its much more about quite a lot of people who now work in it,who have grown up in a generation where public service and caring for others needs before your own are alien concepts.
Have you actually read the Francis report? If not I would suggest spending some time reading it before making random statements like those.
With regards to the statement you make following that, I cannot even imagine that you have met or worked with many thousands of NHS staff that I have met/worked with who care about people and wish to actually help them.
I suppose you must be the only person in the world who is doing a job where you care about the person you serve! And everyone else must be selfish bastards.
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A sad case indeed.
I personaly hate the NH (I never ad the S as the service part went years ago) and I would not put another single penny into it.
And why, because its not cash that is the problem and it will consume every penny you throw at it with little if any return.
The NH needs to be customer focused (which its not) which is why I have some support for the proposed GP's controling where my money is spent for my treatment.
But if you actually look at it closely, it isnt really that is it? Its just the DOH's way of curbing expenditure and limiting GP budgets. which then means that there will be a point where your GP will say to you, "I am really sorry, but we have run out of cash to send you to the local hospital for specialist treatment". Whereas previously they were not limited in what they could sanction. A good example being CBT being taken of the list of services that GPs can offer.
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Whoa...hold on a bit D.....Albitz uses the 'IMO'....meanining in his opinion. I would think he means ' not shop floor', but the white collars in the background. Not saying at all that all 'white collars' are unfeeling, but that is the area where 'profits' are normally bedded
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My local hospital in colchester is now also under the glare of publicity due to the number of deaths etc. there.Im not in the least surprised.Most of its depts. really arent fit for purpose.
Imo the NHS problems are nothing to do with money.In fact I think it has too much money and too many enployees.Its much more about quite a lot of people who now work in it,who have grown up in a generation where public service and caring for others needs before your own are alien concepts.
Have you actually read the Francis report? If not I would suggest spending some time reading it before making random statements like those.
With regards to the statement you make following that, I cannot even imagine that you have met or worked with many thousands of NHS staff that I have met/worked with who care about people and wish to actually help them.
I suppose you must be the only person in the world who is doing a job where you care about the person you serve! And everyone else must be selfish bastards.
The HS budget is beyond any of the usual descriptions - enoromous,gigantic etc etc.It is a bottomless money pit,that could never be filled.It consumes almost £100 billion per year in England alone.It is the fifth largest employer in the world.Whatever its problems are they cant be blamed on underfunding or undermanning.
My family have unfortunately had much experience of the NHS in recent times. Unfortunately much (but not all) of the treatment has been terrible.I speak as I find.
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Whoa...hold on a bit D.....Albitz uses the 'IMO'....meanining in his opinion. I would think he means ' not shop floor', but the white collars in the background. Not saying at all that all 'white collars' are unfeeling, but that is the area where 'profits' are normally bedded
Not entirely Terbert.Im afraid to say that many of the nurses should never be allowed near a hospital ward either. :(
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Imigrants. The NHS has enough on it's plate without having to help someone who has never contributed to it. Everyone that wasn't born in this country should have an NHS account and if they need help from the NHS and haven't paid enough in to cover the cost of the help should be made to pay or have a health insurance. Just my tuppence worth ::)
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Imigrants. The NHS has enough on it's plate without having to help someone who has never contributed to it. Everyone that wasn't born in this country should have an NHS account and if they need help from the NHS and haven't paid enough in to cover the cost of the help should be made to pay or have a health insurance. Just my tuppence worth ::)
:y :y exactly my thoughts entirly :y :y :y
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Until you have paying customers, as in using the £100bn NHS funding as a health insurance, there will be no changes as all hospitals and staff get paid whether they are excellent, good, average, poor or awful anyway. We know from the soviet experience that command industries and monopolies of supply are expensive and don't deliver.
With my ex-wife I had to pay for her to go privately as either the waiting list was unacceptable or the treatment on offer and doctors attitude was not acceptable. So I ended up paying twice; taxes and private treatment.
Why do we allow Governments to set up monopolies of supply when they are quite rightly illegal in the private sector?
If you want to know why many rich people live to a very old age it is because they can afford immediate and effective treatment when they become ill (The same applies to the royal family). The private hospitals only earn their money from giving treatment, not saving money by starving and dehydrating them to death.
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My local hospital in colchester is now also under the glare of publicity due to the number of deaths etc. there.Im not in the least surprised.Most of its depts. really arent fit for purpose.
Imo the NHS problems are nothing to do with money.In fact I think it has too much money and too many enployees.Its much more about quite a lot of people who now work in it,who have grown up in a generation where public service and caring for others needs before your own are alien concepts.
Have you actually read the Francis report? If not I would suggest spending some time reading it before making random statements like those.
With regards to the statement you make following that, I cannot even imagine that you have met or worked with many thousands of NHS staff that I have met/worked with who care about people and wish to actually help them.
I suppose you must be the only person in the world who is doing a job where you care about the person you serve! And everyone else must be selfish bastards.
The HS budget is beyond any of the usual descriptions - enoromous,gigantic etc etc.It is a bottomless money pit,that could never be filled.It consumes almost £100 billion per year in England alone.It is the fifth largest employer in the world.Whatever its problems are they cant be blamed on underfunding or undermanning.
My family have unfortunately had much experience of the NHS in recent times. Unfortunately much (but not all) of the treatment has been terrible.I speak as I find.
Again a random statement. Do you just make this up as you go along?
The UK spends lower than the average EU spend of its GDP (8.5%). For eg: France spends 11% of its GDP on healthcare. The USA around 17%. Yet the UK has the highest efficiency drive compared to that of the continent. 20 billion in 4 years! Do you really think this is sustainable? And then you get people who have no idea what they are talking about make random baseless statements. Does it need a changing in line with changing times? Yes! Does it need ignorance thrown into the mix? No!
On the other hand, my experience with both emergency and planned care on the NHS has been very good. I cannot say the same about poorly trained GP's, but then that is another story.
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I'm not the only one with negative views of the way the NHS is run:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/9858118/Stafford-scandal-Lets-face-the-truth-about-our-uncaring-selfish-and-cruel-NHS.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/9858118/Stafford-scandal-Lets-face-the-truth-about-our-uncaring-selfish-and-cruel-NHS.html)
And the next NHS scandal on dying children:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9859681/Hospital-sued-over-children-left-neglected-and-dying-on-wards.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9859681/Hospital-sued-over-children-left-neglected-and-dying-on-wards.html)
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It has big problems,but money cant fix them. Im not speaking out of ignorance,Im speaking from a lot of first hand experience.I have no doubt that there are far too many people on the front line of the NHS these days who simply do not have a caring disposition.
Thats something that money cant buy.As for efficiency ? Dont get me started. ::)