Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Ken T on 06 May 2008, 00:08:03

Title: LPG take off ?
Post by: Ken T on 06 May 2008, 00:08:03
With the camping season approaching, I was just wondering, as camping stoves use what is basically LPG, if your car was converted to run on LPG, couldn't you arrange a feed point to drive a gas cooker ?. Saves having an LPG tank in the boot, and another heavy bottle to feed a cooker ?.

Ken
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Vamps on 06 May 2008, 00:25:48
I could see no reason why not, you just need a 'take off' point. I plug my bbq into my static caravan, saves and extra bottle, just the same really. :) :) :)
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Entwood on 06 May 2008, 00:30:28
I think the major problem would be regulation ...

LPG from a bottle to a 'van goes through a regulator, and is positioned such that only GAS reaches the regulator...

AFAIK  LPG in a car is LIQUID up to the EVAPORATOR ....

There is no 37mbar regulator built in ... this is of paramount importance .... ie your SAFETY !!!

It MIGHT be possible to fit a regulator ... but I see problems with liquid LPG reaching the regulator ... will FUBAR it very fast !!!
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Biggun on 06 May 2008, 09:05:15
You can buy a connector but I was told it is illegal to transfer from bottle to car.
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Entwood on 06 May 2008, 09:08:32
Quote
You can buy a connector but I was told it is illegal to transfer from bottle to car.


Methinks he wishes to do something different !!  :)

The question was using the CAR supply to run camping equipment to REPLACE the bottle, not filling the car from a bottle......??

Major different ball game IMHO
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: HolyCount on 06 May 2008, 09:11:11
Quote
You can buy a connector but I was told it is illegal to transfer from bottle to car.

You can -- but that's the wrong way about for this thread. BTW it's not illegal to transfer from bottle to car --- it is illegal to then use said gas on the road as no fuel duty has been paid. Just the job for off-roaders tho  ;)

For the use talked about here I would think you would have to fabricate a take off point at the top of the tank, so that it draws vapour. From that run a length of hose up to a regulator.

Pretty dodgy mod tho IMO  :-/
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 06 May 2008, 09:12:56
In principle it's no problem. You do need to take off the vapour rather than the liquid so you would need a take-off from the top of the tank feeding a regulator down to 37mbar or 28mbar or whatever your applicance needs. I think such things are done on motorhomes, although maybe not from the tank that feeds the engine.

Who knows what an insurance assessor would make of such an arrangement?

Kevin
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Debs. on 06 May 2008, 09:15:28
IMHO:
I think there`s one obvious 'against' to this idea: insurance!.....the LPG system (surely) has to be 'officially' certified in order for the car insurance cover to be valid.....altering the LPG system in any way would invalidate the certification and (consequently) most-likely your insurance too.

Edit: Note to self, `must learn to type more quickly!  ;D
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: HolyCount on 06 May 2008, 09:17:41
Quote
IMHO:
I think there`s one obvious 'against' to this idea: insurance!.....the LPG system (surely) has to be 'officially' certified in order for the car insurance cover to be valid.....altering the LPG system in any way would invalidate the certification and (consequently) most-likely your insurance too.

Debs wins again --- apart from blowing oneself up :o -- very valid point  :)
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 06 May 2008, 10:11:22
Quote
IMHO:
I think there`s one obvious 'against' to this idea: insurance!.....the LPG system (surely) has to be 'officially' certified in order for the car insurance cover to be valid.....altering the LPG system in any way would invalidate the certification and (consequently) most-likely your insurance too.

Edit: Note to self, `must learn to type more quickly!  ;D
Heck knows what the insurance assessors will make of my DIY conversions, then ;D
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 May 2008, 10:20:05
Quote
Quote
IMHO:
I think there`s one obvious 'against' to this idea: insurance!.....the LPG system (surely) has to be 'officially' certified in order for the car insurance cover to be valid.....altering the LPG system in any way would invalidate the certification and (consequently) most-likely your insurance too.

Edit: Note to self, `must learn to type more quickly!  ;D
Heck knows what the insurance assessors will make of my DIY conversions, then ;D

Having seen a number of 'professionally' installed setups, they will think its an excellent job so no need to worry there!
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 May 2008, 11:58:49
You can get specialised multivalves for this job - may need a different tank - called vapour take off
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 May 2008, 11:59:26
My DIY install seems fine!
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Jay w on 06 May 2008, 19:59:45
Quote
IMHO:
I think there`s one obvious 'against' to this idea: insurance!.....the LPG system (surely) has to be 'officially' certified in order for the car insurance cover to be valid.....altering the LPG system in any way would invalidate the certification and (consequently) most-likely your insurance too.

Edit: Note to self, `must learn to type more quickly!  ;D

Certification has been widely accepted as 'jobs for the boys'

I did mine myself, the only question the insurance company asked was 'was it fitted by a trained mechanic' yes was my reply and that was it.

i am a C&G trained mechanic so technically i was not lying
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Lazydocker on 07 May 2008, 10:18:14
Quote
Quote
IMHO:
I think there`s one obvious 'against' to this idea: insurance!.....the LPG system (surely) has to be 'officially' certified in order for the car insurance cover to be valid.....altering the LPG system in any way would invalidate the certification and (consequently) most-likely your insurance too.

Edit: Note to self, `must learn to type more quickly!  ;D

Certification has been widely accepted as 'jobs for the boys'

I did mine myself, the only question the insurance company asked was 'was it fitted by a trained mechanic' yes was my reply and that was it.

i am a C&G trained mechanic so technically i was not lying

Nice... I'm not officially trained but it's how I made a living for quite a few years, including getting my MOT testers certificate!

However, as I have said before, with a bit of careful searching you can easily find insurance with no certification required.

As for the running of a stove... It can be done but why would you want to. LPG at the pump is now getting more expensive than bottled and you've paid duty on it for road use... at least use it on the road and get your moneys worth!!!  :-/ :-/ :y :y
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 May 2008, 11:54:52
Quote
As for the running of a stove... It can be done but why would you want to. LPG at the pump is now getting more expensive than bottled and you've paid duty on it for road use... at least use it on the road and get your moneys worth!!!  :-/ :-/ :y :y

It isn't with reasonable sized bottles. My 13kg propane costs just over £10 to fill and Calor would swap for about £3 more
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Entwood on 07 May 2008, 12:09:15
Please also remember that LPG is DANGEROUS if mis-handled .... This may sound far-fetched but is a true story ....

The father of a friend of mine is "miserly" to say the least, and was not happy at the cost of replacement 6Kg bottles for his 'van compared with the cost of 47Kg bottles (its over twice the price/kg) so he decided to save some money.

He rigged up a system to connect a 47Kg directly to a 6kg and did the following :

1. 6 Kg in a chest freezer for 24 hours    (????   :-/ :-/ :-/  )

2. Connect 6 kg to 47 kg

3. Invert 47 kg ( !!!!!!!!!!!    :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ ) leave for 48 hours

The theory being that the LPG would "flow" from the 47 to the 6 .. it seemed to work for him .. he reckoned he could "half fill" a 6 kg bottle this way.

He did this for about 3 months before his  garage blew up - luckily no-one was hurt and there was nothing expensive in the garage.

The reason for the "bang"  .. dead simple .. he had been using standard low-pressure gas pipe .. the rubber stuff you buy from any camping shop. Through this he had been passing unregulated LIQUID gas, it had slowly but surely destroyed the pipe, until it leaked ..........

He was lucky that the actual amount of gas left in the "system" was quite small .. apparently ... and that kept the damage to a "much lower level than expected" ....

Moral of the story ??  don't mess with LPG ....  

Now I don't for one moment think a member of OOF would be that stupid .... but ...  :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

 :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Lazydocker on 07 May 2008, 19:21:29
Quote
Quote
As for the running of a stove... It can be done but why would you want to. LPG at the pump is now getting more expensive than bottled and you've paid duty on it for road use... at least use it on the road and get your moneys worth!!!  :-/ :-/ :y :y

It isn't with reasonable sized bottles. My 13kg propane costs just over £10 to fill and Calor would swap for about £3 more

IIRC that's about 20 litres so there's probably very little difference at the moment but with prices but with fuel at the pump going up it'll soon be more expensive to use fuel with duty paid!!
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 May 2008, 20:35:45
Quote
Quote
Quote
As for the running of a stove... It can be done but why would you want to. LPG at the pump is now getting more expensive than bottled and you've paid duty on it for road use... at least use it on the road and get your moneys worth!!!  :-/ :-/ :y :y

It isn't with reasonable sized bottles. My 13kg propane costs just over £10 to fill and Calor would swap for about £3 more

IIRC that's about 20 litres so there's probably very little difference at the moment but with prices but with fuel at the pump going up it'll soon be more expensive to use fuel with duty paid!!


This was at 54.5p a litre as Calor do not do refilling (48p)
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Lazydocker on 07 May 2008, 23:22:00
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
As for the running of a stove... It can be done but why would you want to. LPG at the pump is now getting more expensive than bottled and you've paid duty on it for road use... at least use it on the road and get your moneys worth!!!  :-/ :-/ :y :y

It isn't with reasonable sized bottles. My 13kg propane costs just over £10 to fill and Calor would swap for about £3 more

IIRC that's about 20 litres so there's probably very little difference at the moment but with prices but with fuel at the pump going up it'll soon be more expensive to use fuel with duty paid!!


This was at 54.5p a litre as Calor do not do refilling (48p)

Is that all... Cheapest garage around here is now 57.9ppl I believe. And the local ones to me are 59.9ppl!!

Still cheaper than petrol and I can still get my money back on a DIY conversion inside a year! Just got to get the pennies and time to do it!!  ::) ::) :y :y
Title: Re: LPG take off ?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 May 2008, 08:22:21
54.5 is a lot - I fill up at 48p a litre, two suppliers in Worcester - keeps them honest