Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: El_Swervo on 03 April 2013, 18:33:36
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Evening All,
Today when my wife was driving our Omega, it broke down. The engine cut out and would not re-start. The car had only been driven 2-3 miles. When I got there 20 mins later, it still didn't start. It cranks over no problem, petrol in the tank etc. I could not smell fuel during the cranking or at any other time.
When the AA patrol arrived, he got in the car and it started. This was 45-60 mins after the initial breakdown. However as she drove off it konked out again. This time it wouldn't start again.
Last week it did the same thing but started soon after and I drove it the next day with several starts and it was fine. We put this first problem down to stalling and slight operator error.
The Fault codes that came up via Paul the AA mans' gizmo where PO170 Fuel trim bank 1 and P173 FT bank 2.
I know at least one of these was a bit iffy after the last mot.
Would this cause the problem or, as suggested by AA man Paul, could it be the crank angle sensor?
Model is 2.6 Facelift "Y" reg petrol CDX Estate.
He has cleared the faults.
Any ideas Folks? ???
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Symptoms fit perfectly with the two occasions I have had crank position sensors fail. AA man didn't get a code for CPS either time. It started first time when the AA man tried to start it (after it had been stood for a while).
I haven't had any 17X fuel trim codes but I don't think that is the reason for it not starting
After fitting a new sensor car no1 ran until I got rid of it (maybe 50,000 miles) and car no2 is still running without recurrence of the problem. I now carry a spare in the boot :y
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Symptoms fit perfectly with the two occasions I have had crank position sensors fail. AA man didn't get a code for CPS either time. It started first time when the AA man tried to start it (after it had been stood for a while).
I haven't had any 17X fuel trim codes but I don't think that is the reason for it not starting
After fitting a new sensor car no1 ran until I got rid of it (maybe 50,000 miles) and car no2 is still running without recurrence of the problem. I now carry a spare in the boot :y
+1 same symptoms that mine had when it failed :y
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It sounded right to me too. I am sure I had this on my last Omega. I remember buying one and changing it, (re-routing cable etc).
Are they in the same place as pre-facelift, adjacent to the oil filter?
Next, where to get one...
Thanks Andy, (and henryd)
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It sounded right to me too. I am sure I had this on my last Omega. I remember buying one and changing it, (re-routing cable etc).
Are they in the same place as pre-facelift, adjacent to the oil filter?
Next, where to get one...
Thanks Andy, (and henryd)
Main dealer,don't mess with pattern :y
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Crank sensor.Pedal trick may or may not throw up a code.As said,genuine only.Location is the same on newer cars. :y
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How much fuel :-\
If on a slight angle with low fuel, it could take upto 15 litres to restart. No fuel light, and gauge above red but below a quarter, range of about 40 miles are the symptoms of that. Also try tapping the fuel tank under the right hand end whilst cranking. If it starts, the fuel pump is on it's last legs.
Crank sensor is the first port of call if none of the above conditions are met. :y
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How much fuel :-\
If on a slight angle with low fuel, it could take upto 15 litres to restart. No fuel light, and gauge above red but below a quarter, range of about 40 miles are the symptoms of that. Also try tapping the fuel tank under the right hand end whilst cranking. If it starts, the fuel pump is on it's last legs.
Crank sensor is the first port of call if none of the above conditions are met. :y
I did think it might be a fuel issue, but there is over 1/4 of a tank and just cut out on level road. I will check as you say tomorrow though. Thank you for your advice.
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It sounded right to me too. I am sure I had this on my last Omega. I remember buying one and changing it, (re-routing cable etc).
Are they in the same place as pre-facelift, adjacent to the oil filter?
Next, where to get one...
Thanks Andy, (and henryd)
Yep classic crank sensor failure :y
Same place as pfl - reroute down via abs module :y
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Classic crank sensor symptoms. Leave it to cool for a while, it works until it heats up again.
Pedal trick may reveal a 0335.
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Also reckon crank sensor, but if you'd like me to cast an eye over it.. :y
Regarding the 017x codes, I remember it was playing up a bit from the beginning, and I think we came to the conclusion that it might be the MAF. Did you change that and did it resolve the issue? Memory is a bit hazy... ::)
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exactly what happened to me classic crank sensor
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Also reckon crank sensor, but if you'd like me to cast an eye over it.. :y
Regarding the 017x codes, I remember it was playing up a bit from the beginning, and I think we came to the conclusion that it might be the MAF. Did you change that and did it resolve the issue? Memory is a bit hazy... ::)
You are quite right Kevin, did have an issue, havn't changed the Maf, as the only issue aside the slightly high emissions at MOT time, is a bit of hunting at idle. Should change it really ::). casting eye would be great though, when would you like to cast? ;)
Crank sensor purchased from Andy C today, ( Cheers Andy, very helpful). Hopefully should solve one issue at least.
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Thank you to All who pitched in with help and confirmation, as usual the OOF has delivered! :y
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Another delivery for you....same symptoms for me,same remedy..new crank sensor,jobs a good 'un :y
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Also reckon crank sensor, but if you'd like me to cast an eye over it.. :y
Regarding the 017x codes, I remember it was playing up a bit from the beginning, and I think we came to the conclusion that it might be the MAF. Did you change that and did it resolve the issue? Memory is a bit hazy... ::)
You are quite right Kevin, did have an issue, havn't changed the Maf, as the only issue aside the slightly high emissions at MOT time, is a bit of hunting at idle. Should change it really ::). casting eye would be great though, when would you like to cast? ;)
Crank sensor purchased from Andy C today, ( Cheers Andy, very helpful). Hopefully should solve one issue at least.
See how it goes with a new crank sensor, but I suspect the MAF has probably got a little worse and is triggering the fuel trim codes. Could just be a symptom of the crank sensor playing up, though. :y
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You should have called :y
Classic crank sensor problem. Easy to fit, if you can get it here I can do it for you while I have a break from sorting out the jaaaag.
Kitty is poorly :(
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Thanks Kevin and Guffer,
I have not got the Crank sensor yet. Hoping it will arrive today, before it rains!
When I get it on, I will post results. Don't want to risk another breakdown moving the car to Aldershot Guffer, thanks for the offer :) so I will do it in the road like a proper mechanic! :y
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It's arrived, but no time to fit before work today. On a course all day tomorrow, so its a Thursday morning job, I can't wait.
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It's arrived, but no time to fit before work today. On a course all day tomorrow, so its a Thursday morning job, I can't wait.
So we have to wait another 2 days to see if it works now >:( :P ;D
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It's arrived, but no time to fit before work today. On a course all day tomorrow, so its a Thursday morning job, I can't wait.
So we have to wait another 2 days to see if it works now >:( :P ;D
Sorry, only till midday tomorrow to wait now. Isn't it exciting ;)
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Job done, but unfortunately the battery was flat. There was no sign of this happening, but I guess that nearly an hour of hazards and several goes at starting and turning over, followed by a week of idleness finished it off.
On charge now, cant wait to see what happens when I put it back on. Any tricks there? ::)
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On charge now, cant wait to see what happens when I put it back on. Any tricks there? ::)
You'll have to reset the windows & sunroof, but other than that it should be fine: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90503.0
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On charge now, cant wait to see what happens when I put it back on. Any tricks there? ::)
You'll have to reset the windows & sunroof, but other than that it should be fine: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90503.0
Thank you :y I will follow the link!
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And probably radio & CD codes ;)
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Ok, knew it wouldn't be that simple. Car now in "Safe" mode on the led screen. Havn't looked on here yet for solution. I will be reading and researching this afternoon. ???
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Ok, knew it wouldn't be that simple. Car now in "Safe" mode on the led screen. Havn't looked on here yet for solution. I will be reading and researching this afternoon. ???
It's your radio that's in 'safe' mode .... not the car ::) ::) It's waiting for a code. ;)
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You let your wife drive? With you in the car, at the same time? :o
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Ok, knew it wouldn't be that simple. Car now in "Safe" mode on the led screen. Havn't looked on here yet for solution. I will be reading and researching this afternoon. ???
It's your radio that's in 'safe' mode .... not the car ::) ::) It's waiting for a code. ;)
Oh, OK ::) just that it was running in a very suspect manor also, and I only had a couple of minutes to have a look, read; wasn't concentrating, had to go out, looking for the worst to happen ;D
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OK, so I have started the car again and it is missfiring quite badly. The new sensor, (genuine Vauxhall), has been fitted.
The fault codes via the pedal test are as follows;
0300,0301,0302,0304,0305 and 0306. So random missfire plus missfires on all cylinders. Also code 0335 that is the code for crankshaft position sensor "A" circuit malfunction.
Does this mean its a duff sensor, or something else. you can't fit the plug the wrong way round, but can you plug it in anywhere but the right socket? I can't see any other socket. I didn't remove the old sensor as it's pretty well tied in. ( I have plugged in the new sensor ::) ).
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Double check the plugs to both coil packs by unplugging and refitting :y be sure that the plugs click home :y
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OK checked plugs on coil packs, thanks Al.( i will have to discount them now as not disturbed in any case).
I have checked the crank sensor plug and it's fine.
The car starts fine and for a few seconds runs smoothly. Then it starts to missfire gets worse and stops. If I start it again, it's fine again, then again, etc.
Without changing the sensor back to the old one again, I am at a loss as to what to do next. Any ideas?
I have had a good look over to see if there are any loose connectors and such. It was all ok before the breakdown.
Codes seem to be the same as yesterday.
:(
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Try unplugging that MAF sensor and see if it'll idle OK. :y
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Try unplugging that MAF sensor and see if it'll idle OK. :y
OK Kevin, I will have a go. :y
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Because I have a lot of trouble opening the bonnet and getting anything done when there is a lack of a helper to pull the lever whilst I lean on the front, I have adjusted the bonnet catch to fix the problem so I can work on my own. Unfortunately, now the firkin thing won't open at all. :'(
The cable pulls the lever across all the way. Having read the previous bonnet catch thread, I imagine this is a common fault. The plastic cover under, preventing access is proving difficult to remove without breaking the fasteners as they are very brittle. Don't want to destroy them without a way of putting the panel back on.
Fed up now, as I can't even get to the job in hand >:(
Will have to start again after work tomorrow.!
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Try unplugging that MAF sensor and see if it'll idle OK. :y
I FINALY got the bonnet open after a bit of a struggle, and a wasted night ::)
now...Do you want to move next door Kevin! once again sound advice :y
So far anyway. With the MAF sensor unplugged, the car runs well and constant, (parked). As soon as I plug it in, off it goes again on it's merry dance.
I am guessing at least a clean of said MafS but probable replacement.
Does anyone have a spare they can spare. Don't really want to buy a new one :o
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Might have one here, hang on......
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Yup, one sat on the shelf. Was working when I took it off although it has sat for a bit. Worth a try. I also have electrical cleaner here if there are issues with it.
I'm in all day tomorrow. PM me for the address :y
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Cheers Guffer :y will do.
I did have a go cleaning the one I have, the gauze was clean. I managed to get the sensor out of the tube without damage and cleaned it with electrical cleaner, although it was not dirty. Put it back and tried again. Still no good plugged in. withit out was ok, bar one time it spluttered and died. several, like 10 starts later, still good. RPM about 600, revs fine to 4-5k and back to 600 each time. Plug the Maf in and its no good.
Will try with Guffers to see if that cures it :-\
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..... I also have electrical cleaner here if there are issues with it
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Careful using that. I killed a MAF with that stuff ::) ::)
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Cleaning generally doesn't help, and pattern MAFs tend to be pants. One of those parts that needs to be genuine, sadly.
Guffer, is yours from your old non-DBW car? If so, it won't fit a DBW car, unfortunately. :(
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Cleaning generally doesn't help, and pattern MAFs tend to be pants. One of those parts that needs to be genuine, sadly.
Guffer, is yours from your old non-DBW car? If so, it won't fit a DBW car, unfortunately. :(
ballz, didn't realise that. I cleaned the jag MAF successfully using electrical cleaner and careful application of cotton buds. Is the miggy one that much more fragile/different? :-\
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Cleaning generally doesn't help, and pattern MAFs tend to be pants. One of those parts that needs to be genuine, sadly.
Guffer, is yours from your old non-DBW car? If so, it won't fit a DBW car, unfortunately. :(
ballz, didn't realise that. I cleaned the jag MAF successfully using electrical cleaner and careful application of cotton buds. Is the miggy one that much more fragile/different? :-\
It's not so much that than the fact that it doesn't get that dirty, and cleaning it makes no difference, IME. I suspect the failure is due to degradation of the components, not contamination.
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Daz is breaking a DBW .. perhaps the MAF off that would suit ??
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=114032.0
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Call me stupid if you like, but what is DBW? :-[
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Call me stupid if you like, but what is DBW? :-[
Drive By Wire throttle,no cable :y
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DBW = Drive By Wire
No actual throttle cable, it's done by electronic sensor.
edit:I really need to fit go faster stripes to my typing finger! :D
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Call me stupid if you like, but what is DBW? :-[
Drive By Wire
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Doh, Thank's Chaps ::)
I was at work, we only do FBW ;D
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Daz is breaking a DBW .. perhaps the MAF off that would suit ??
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=114032.0
Thank you Sir! pm sent! :y
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Cleaning generally doesn't help, and pattern MAFs tend to be pants. One of those parts that needs to be genuine, sadly.
Guffer, is yours from your old non-DBW car? If so, it won't fit a DBW car, unfortunately. :(
ballz, didn't realise that. I cleaned the jag MAF successfully using electrical cleaner and careful application of cotton buds. Is the miggy one that much more fragile/different? :-\
Does this mean that yours is not DBW Guffer? ???
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Cleaning generally doesn't help, and pattern MAFs tend to be pants. One of those parts that needs to be genuine, sadly.
Guffer, is yours from your old non-DBW car? If so, it won't fit a DBW car, unfortunately. :(
ballz, didn't realise that. I cleaned the jag MAF successfully using electrical cleaner and careful application of cotton buds. Is the miggy one that much more fragile/different? :-\
Does this mean that yours is not DBW Guffer? ???
Nope, sorry. Just got your voicemail :-[
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Not to worry! I am on the trail of another :y
Thanks anyway!
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are you out there Darth? PM sent :y
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After much mucking about, I am quite happy as all is sorted. the car runs better than ever and will no doubt use less fuel. Happy wife, happy car.
Thanks for all advice and thanks Daz for new Maf sensor, works a treat. :y