Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: JesperKjeldsen on 23 April 2013, 12:30:04
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Lets face it, the 2,5v6 is a bit underpowered considering its size (displacement).
so im considering the superchargerway, mostly because averybody else uses turbo.
but now i need some pros and cons. I know its a big rebuilt, but I think im up for the challenge (yes im a mechanic).
so far ive come to this:
stronger rods (possible from a saab or custom made)
lower compresion (+3mm steel head gasket)
eaton m62 or m90 supercharger (max pressure 0,5bar boost controlled)
intercooler from wv transport tdi
ecu remap
engine coolant thermostat max temp 70 degrees celcius
elektric waterpump (to keep the water flowing faster)
headers from bestmufflers.com
cams from 3,0v6
steel pressure pipes.
5w30 sunoco/valvoline racing oil for the engine.
THE GOAL. 280 - 320hp and whatever torgue it brings hopefully over 300nm
brakes,supesion and so on is already converted to steinmetz kompressor specifikations.
have I forgotten anything?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6G15IcUgDc
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also I need af wood look stering wheel and wood look center console for a car without climatronik
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I would just drop a 3.0 / 3.2 in, to be honest. It's a good increase in power over the 2.5 and is proven to be 100% reliable, unlike most attempts to fit forced induction to a V6.
If you still need more power, then at least the 3.2 has a forged crank. There's no point in throwing money at tuning the smaller engine, IMHO.
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the rules for an engine swap are hopless in denmark. :'(
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the rules for an engine swap are hopless in denmark. :'(
<crosses Denmark off the list of destinations for possible emigration>
Shame, I like the place! ;)
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JesperKjeldsen,
here is my experience: 3.0 cams+3 ECU and port polishing on heads gave around 40 extra hp..
I had it measured on dyno before and after (car manual with 3.90 diff)
it was around 143 hp before and 188 hp after
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=113674.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=113674.0)
now you can play with bore sizes (thats the way most mechanics here prefer)
bore stroke
2.5_____81.6___79.6
2.6_____83.2___79.6
3.0_____86_____85
3.2_____87.5___88
and if you want you can change the crank also to 3.2 (have longer stroke) if you wish
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=106188.75 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=106188.75)
and also calibra forged pistons match the purpose (have various sizes)
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/je-pistons-k1-h-beam-forged-rods-opel-astra-calibra-c20le-c20let-3392.html (http://realstreetperformance.com/store/je-pistons-k1-h-beam-forged-rods-opel-astra-calibra-c20le-c20let-3392.html)
valve sizes can be increased..
from what I read supercharger is more suitable for omega.. but you'll need custom pulleys .. their ratio will determine your induction pressure .. you can find from graphics at eaton website..
you will need external oil cooler ..
and most important uprated bottom end parts.. I have seen somewhere else if I can find I will share.. :-\
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and if you dont mind remove all AC parts and condenser..
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steinmetz supercharged the 3.0 litre and im sure that apart from crank and a different head gasket not much else done to engine from what ive gleened from the ones in germany and poland.they made over 300bhp.i had a 3.2 and was going down the route of blower but costs and life got in the way.my steinmetz is only a 2.5 but has been cammed and has cortney motorsport air filter and with the full flow exhaust is alot better but as she weighs in at .1.9 tons a saturn 5 rocket would be needed to shift it like a hot hatch,im now thinking NOS. ye ha
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these arp bolts (for bottom end) seems really strong but wiill require some machining I think (3rd picture)
http://home.comcast.net/~robert_crow/V6%20buildup%20pg5.htm (http://home.comcast.net/~robert_crow/V6%20buildup%20pg5.htm)
plus things I forgot..
wideband lambda , some installers also use map sensor instead of maf with custom ecu
higher flow injectors and uprated fuel pump.. ( not sure this will be required for 0.5 bar app)
and you may need an uprated clutch set..
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(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/CarolineMans/June%20Albumn/smileymoney.gif)
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(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/CarolineMans/June%20Albumn/smileymoney.gif)
+1 madness :y :y
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(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/CarolineMans/June%20Albumn/smileymoney.gif)
;D ;D ;D yeah.. lots of it required :y
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Cem, out of interest.... with all that bore/stroke size increases what sort of extra power would that give... instead of BHP cos ill be honest but that means nowt to me... what can the real life improvement be i.e. 0-60 time, top speed increase etc?
:y
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Cem, out of interest.... with all that bore/stroke size increases what sort of extra power would that give... instead of BHP cos ill be honest but that means nowt to me... what can the real life improvement be i.e. 0-60 time, top speed increase etc?
:y
the exact answer will be very complicated and depends on a lot of factors I'm afraid.. but shortest route is to make road test/dyno ;D
when you play with bore snd stroke you are increasing the engine volume.. however, if you polish inlet and exhaust ports the effect of increasing internal volume will increase obviously.. if you also play with cams and valve sizes , the bhp gains will be much more.. and a re-map will add on top ıf this..
theoritically you can get another extra 40-50 hp (may be more- assuming no forced induction ) on a 2.5 (at the crank) .. this makes 0-60 approx 1.5-2 seconds faster in real life.. but top speed wont be effected too much imo as its dependant on gear and diff ratios..
ps: I'm assuming those mods are done on a manual.. as estimating the amount of autobox losses is very hard..
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Good explanation cem thanks for that.
So presumably cost vs return is going to be rubbish then??? :-\
no real point surely? :-\
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easier and cheaper to get bigger engine than boat anchor v6 :y
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I must note, many stock engines are tuned for economical purposes and for some legal requirements , so their athmospheric efficiencies are low compared to race engines.. take older bmw m3 e46 as an example ..
it has 3.2 litre volume and its athmospheric.. but it produces 343 hp .. compare this to omega 3.2 , its a big difference.. most of this difference comes from the air inlet and exhaust setup (including throttle,cams , valves and other apparatus) .. :-\
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Good explanation cem thanks for that.
So presumably cost vs return is going to be rubbish then??? :-\
no real point surely? :-\
trust me racers spending megabucks for 1/10 of a second ;D with an omega engine comparingly
you are in a comfortable cheapo gains zone .. 1.5-2 seconds is a big big difference :)
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my cousin did top fuel funny cars and the engines cost 70 000 plus but did produce about 4000+ hp :D :D :D
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my cousin did top fuel funny cars and the engines cost 70 000 plus but did produce about 4000+ hp :D :D :D
those engines will spend our monthly salary worth of fuel just in a quarter mile drag ;D
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and of course its hard to tell why we spend money to UK members .. because they can buy a 3.2 or even a more powerful car very cheaply.. thats not the case here.. :(
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what sort of cost would be to the OP to do this? assuming that labour is free as he'll do it himself?
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what sort of cost would be to the OP to do this? assuming that labour is free as he'll do it himself?
I cant make any guess as its a different country ..
but here those mods and forced induction will cost around 4-5k£ minimum if things go as planned.. :-\
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what sort of cost would be to the OP to do this? assuming that labour is free as he'll do it himself?
I cant make any guess as its a different country ..
but here those mods and forced induction will cost around 4-5k£ minimum if things go as planned.. :-\
wow. that's a lot for only bringing the 0-60 time down from 9.5 to 7.5 :o
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what sort of cost would be to the OP to do this? assuming that labour is free as he'll do it himself?
I cant make any guess as its a different country ..
but here those mods and forced induction will cost around 4-5k£ minimum if things go as planned.. :-\
wow. that's a lot for only bringing the 0-60 time down from 9.5 to 7.5 :o
nope.. the estimated money is for forced induction (0.5 bar alone will give roughly half of your power regarding power loss on drive train) and other mods together where the gains will be more than a 100 bhp.. and 0-60 time will be around 6.0-6.5 seconds (as a rough estimate).. if you consider the price of a brand new "posh" bimmer making 0-60 in that time, this money not that much :) :y
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easier and cheaper to get bigger engine than boat anchor v6 :y
As already stated, in Denmark he cannot do that ;)
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brakes,supesion and so on is already converted to steinmetz kompressor specifikations.
What are the specifikations for brakes etc?