Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: Toledodude1973 on 01 June 2013, 21:52:14
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Hello all my 2002 2.6omega has all of a sudden decided not to start,engine turns over but won't fire ,when ignition turned on spanner light and engine picture flash together and there is a rapid clicking from throttle housing(throttle opening/closing )housing could this be a relay or ECU fault?any help greatly received
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First thing read the codes using pedal trick, could be a simple Throttle Body clean up.
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First thing read the codes using pedal trick, could be a simple Throttle Body clean up.
He did that-in other thread-still reckon its fubar'd :(
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First thing read the codes using pedal trick, could be a simple Throttle Body clean up.
He did that-in other thread-still reckon its fubar'd :(
Ah, might have been better to continue on that thread then or to post a "further to my" with a link, if its the same issue. :-\
Codes?
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I have a spare 3.2 throttle body here (which I believe is the same as 2.6 ?) which you could try on your car for elimination purposes if you want.Im not much more than a half hour from Ipswich if you have a spare means of transport to nip down and collect it. ;)
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Thanks Albitz just bought used one on ebay yesterday so waiting for post, £23 -i'll let you know results thanks for help very kind
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Sorry Zirk for starting new thread but didn't think it was allowed to keep reserecting topic i'll post any progress thanks
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Sorry Zirk for starting new thread but didn't think it was allowed to keep reserecting topic i'll post any progress thanks
No need to apologise to me matey, just sometimes easier to stick with the original thread, that way other members know some history on the problem and where you've been with it.
Admittedly threads do die, normally when the issue has been solved or people run out of ideas or lose interest in the post. If thats the case, start a new post with some reference to what youve done so far with some reference to the old post or a linky. That way your not reinventing the wheel with the original problem. ;)
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Cheers Zirk just want my beast back on the road without it costing me too much cash, will keep forum posted
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Update is used throttle not arrived yet ,had another look and opened relay box under bonnet, clicking noise still coming from throttle housing and also put finger on two purple coloured relays which are also clicking in unison, could this be the problem any ideas?
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The purple relays control the main feed to the engine electronics and the feed to the fuel pump. The former should pull in as soon as the ignition switch is turned to the run position and the latter should pull in for a second or two to prime the fuel pump, then pull in again when cranking and running.
Is this clicking happening as soon as the ignition is turned on, or when cranking the engine?
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thanks Kevin for help. When i put key in ignition slot and to first position i can detect no click or movement from purple relays:Second position rapid clicking from seems both relays and throttle housing:When cranking engine same clicking and engine truns over nicely, hope this helps Paul
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Without reading your first thread on this, have you gone down a possible Immobiliser Issue route?
Just a thought. :-\
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Yes mate ,tried spare key as well ,update now is i've just fitted replacement used throttle housing/sensor unit and no change in symptoms.
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did you check multi-plug connectors by battery? did mention ages ago-contacts open up/lose voltage-been there had that on one miggy-that would click and not go-check-what you got to lose mate :y
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I'll give them a nudge or two as you say worth a try ,getting a couple of purple relay from Albitz tomorrow to eliminate them thanks Symes
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just tried purple replacement relays and no change ,need someone Ipswich area to try and read any codes with pukka tech 2 reader i'm obviously willing to pay , i fear if i get just any mobile mechanic its just going to cost me with no result ...help please
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I will contact someone not that far from you who has one,as discussed this morning.Shame changing the relays didn't do the trick. :(
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Thanks Albitz running out of ideas mate!
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I will contact someone not that far from you who has one,as discussed this morning.Shame changing the relays didn't do the trick. :(
worth a try though . . as they were "clicking " as well in unison . . . it may have worked . But you have now eliminated the complete throttle body assembly & the 2 mauve relays.
next step as Albitz says Tech 2 read :y
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I fear that even with a proper Tech 2 the same communication issue will exist Paul ;)
Check all the earths and connectors as suggested ;)
EDIT: I have been and looked at this car and whilst the throttle bodies are chattering there is a comms issue... Unplug them and plug them back in and the chattering stops, code reader connects and car starts.
Strikes me as an intermittent earth fault TBH :-\
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thanks for reply and previous help ,can't start car at all now ,will check earths etc. are the main ones near the battery area?
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Get a jump lead and try connecting from battery neg to engine then body while ignition is on to see if clicking changes,may prove an earth fault :y
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just curious Paul, has the battery been off lately . or did it go completly flat whilst the car was stood up & not used ?
Would agree with the jump lead "earthing" theory . . . worth a try :y
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Yes Al battery was flat when laid up but started quickly after charge will try with jump lead tomorrow thanks everybody
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Right.. Let's try eliminating some things. Firstly, which relay is clicking? Can you try removing the purple relay that's nearest the passenger side wing? This is the fuel pump relay. It won't start with that out, but is the clicking still there?
If so, take out the green 30 A fusible link in the fuse box above the battery positive terminal. Check the pins are clean and that the fuse is intact with no cracks. Put it back and maybe give it and the wiring between it and the ECU a wagggle to see if it influences the clicking noise.
Check the 3 large round connectors behind the battery are firmly plugged in. Again, give them a waggle and see if it influences things.
Check the 2 multi-way connectors on the ECU are firmly plugged in. They aren't prone to working loose but someone might have been there before...
Check battery terminals and all wires feeding from them are tight.
Check the grounding point behind the power steering pump on the engine is secure and also the one on the body just below the battery..
Check the battery voltage with the ignition on. Could be that it has a dead cell or hasn't recovered from being drained, and the ECU is dropping out due to low voltage.
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Right.. Let's try eliminating some things. Firstly, which relay is clicking? Can you try removing the purple relay that's nearest the passenger side wing? This is the fuel pump relay. It won't start with that out, but is the clicking still there?
If so, take out the green 30 A fusible link in the fuse box above the battery positive terminal. Check the pins are clean and that the fuse is intact with no cracks. Put it back and maybe give it and the wiring between it and the ECU a wagggle to see if it influences the clicking noise.
Check the 3 large round connectors behind the battery are firmly plugged in. Again, give them a waggle and see if it influences things.
Check the 2 multi-way connectors on the ECU are firmly plugged in. They aren't prone to working loose but someone might have been there before...
Check battery terminals and all wires feeding from them are tight.
Check the grounding point behind the power steering pump on the engine is secure and also the one on the body just below the battery..
Check the battery voltage with the ignition on. Could be that it has a dead cell or hasn't recovered from being drained, and the ECU is dropping out due to low voltage.
open them and check connectors as did say they open/lose contact ;)
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thanks for help, results:Removed passenger side relay = throttle clicking remains
Removed engine side relay = Throttle clicking stops
Removed 30A fuse,cleaned, refitted and wiggled but no change in throttle clicking
Checked 3 Large connectors and moved wires but no change again
Checked ECU plugs and all fine
Checked earth and battery terminals and all okay
Have now put battery on overnight
Hope this helps to eliminate the possibilities of the problem. Thanks again, Paul.
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so try this-disconnect fuel lines to fuel rail-17+19mm put the open fuel lines into a jar and get helper to turn engine over-to see if fuel getting to engine-maybe pump/filter-no fuel=no go or try taking spark plug out-wet/dry
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Thats the three big ones symes yes? how do they undo? thanks mate
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two mate- one is 17mm other 19mm got a sort of tin foil on them :y am wondering if fuel is there -you might have immobiser issue-but try to check if fuel getting there first-
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Got it now ,sorry wasn't thinking straight!
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Have you tried the jump lead to engine block as suggested earlier ? :-\
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yes Albitz,tried jump lead to engine/neg post and jump lead to car body/neg post
Just removed petrol pipes and got little surge from bigger pipe then nothing from either ---throttles / relays/ petrol pump where problem
lies it seems?
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yes Albitz,tried jump lead to engine/neg post and jump lead to car body/neg post
Just removed petrol pipes and got little surge from bigger pipe then nothing from either ---throttles / relays/ petrol pump where problem
lies it seems?
Fuel Pump will prime (probably for about 1 sec) when Ing turned on, then stop until the Engine is cranked over, is it pissing fuel while turning over?.
If its a lazy pump or on its way out, or fuel filter is blocked, should be able to test this by removing Fuel Pump Relay and feeding 12v to the Fuel Pump side Pin to run the fuel pump (be Carefull, for Sparks and Petrol Fumes in the Engine Bay).
Someone will need to confirm which pin or the wire colour is to the from the relay to the Fuel Pump, or you could work this out by seeing which of the 2 contact pins are presented with 12v with the relay out, then feed 12v to the other pin, or short them out.
Fairly sure there is no Fuel Cut Out Switch on the Migs, so from the relay to the pump should be a straight feed, with out any other interruptions.
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yes Albitz,tried jump lead to engine/neg post and jump lead to car body/neg post
Just removed petrol pipes and got little surge from bigger pipe then nothing from either ---throttles / relays/ petrol pump where problem
lies it seems?
other pipe is return-that's normal for fuel to act like that-Zirk is correct-so fuel getting there then-now you need to check you getting spark at plugs-need to tech 2 the miggy- did you have odd misfires/cutting out before this non start issue?-mate of mine thought of crank sensor-his idea not mine-usually miggys play up before c/s dies--but get tech 2-if you can-then you will know exactly were issue is mate
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Thanks for replies , getting no petrol when cranking engine, but throttles still opening/closing causing clicking noise, Twiglet is hopefully coming round with tech2 next saturday,but not hopeful as lazydocker did try with another version and had communication problems.
Charged battery overnight and got 12.7v with ignition on
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Presumably crank sensor has already been ruled out ?
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Presumably crank sensor has already been ruled out ?
Do what I said earlier by feeding 12v to the fuel pump and bypassing the FP relay, this will prove that the fuel pump and filter is doing its job even if the crank sensor is telling the ecu it has fault. :y
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bit nervous of the relay bypass (not good on electrics) Zirk i would need you to run it by me in baby talk sorry! Crank sensor has not been ruled out (couldnt get any fault codes due to comms error last time ,trying again soon with tech2 so might work :-\
really appreciate help, rang up auto specialists other side of Ipswich, most unhelpful bloke wanted £40 to pick car up(5 miles)£45 +vat to possibly diagnose fault(same cost if cant comunicate with car) when i said i'll have to get car back after diagnostics he said probably be too much cost to fix car so get a scrap yard to take it away ! This is a 62k car surely it cant come to that can it? :'( :'( :'(
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bit nervous of the relay bypass (not good on electrics) Zirk i would need you to run it by me in baby talk sorry! Crank sensor has not been ruled out (couldnt get any fault codes due to comms error last time ,trying again soon with tech2 so might work :-\
really appreciate help, rang up auto specialists other side of Ipswich, most unhelpful bloke wanted £40 to pick car up(5 miles)£45 +vat to possibly diagnose fault(same cost if cant comunicate with car) when i said i'll have to get car back after diagnostics he said probably be too much cost to fix car so get a scrap yard to take it away ! This is a 62k car surely it cant come to that can it? :'( :'( :'(
Typical local garage attitude IMO . . . If they can't rip you off by just fitting a simple "bolt on " part to cure the problem . They just tell you scrap it as an uneconomical fix. W**k**s !
( excuse my french . . .but these garages make my blood boil >:( >:( >:()
Don't do that ! Wait until Twiglet has had a look.
Paul , don't get too dispondant , this problem should be able to get sorted .
This must be a fairly simple fault IMO . . .it's just finding it .
Crank sensor ? .. would a failed crank sensor cause this clicking throttle butterfly & relay problem ? Any Oofers got an opinion on that question
Lastly . . on a light hearted note . . 62k . . .did it come from Mr. Budden when new . . .he usually charges twice as much as anyone else ;D ;D ;D
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Worth every penny Al ;D ;D Oh when it starts! Am feeling down with it ,you're spot on with garages they're not really mechanics now more find and replace merchants
cheersmate
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thanks Kevin for help. When i put key in ignition slot and to first position i can detect no click or movement from purple relays:Second position rapid clicking from seems both relays and throttle housing:When cranking engine same clicking and engine truns over nicely, hope this helps Paul
If the supply to the ECU is on and off it is never going to complete its self check sequence. This is probably the main reason why you cannot get a code reader to connect.
The cause is probably an old fashioned wiring fault rather than something particularly hi-tech. I would be tempted to turn the ignition to position 2 and work all the cables around the battery, ECU, ignition switch, both fuse boxes and starter motor until you find the loose connection.
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thanks andy, have had a bit of a fiddle around with wiring, going to have another go tomorrow ...i might get lucky!
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Not sure what code reader you used but cheapo ones usually won't connect with just the ignition on on the 2.2 and 2.6, I have always had to start the engine with it plugged in to get any codes, just a thought!
I had non start issues on a 3.0 and replaced loads of components, dis,plugs ,leads,fuel relays....turned out to be the bloody crank sensor which gave no fault codes.
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Update, when i turned ignition to 2 the throttle clicking continued i went into relay box and disconnected top loom of wires from ecu this stopped the clicking, i re-connected with ignition key in same position i.e.not moved from 2 and clicking remained quiet i turned key and car started first time but in limp mode 1100rpm with spanner light and tc lights on, once ignition turned off back to clicking noise! This shows fuel getting there anyway,could this be crank sensor omegod? £60 odd quid gamble , as i say twiglet hopefully coming round saturday with tech 2 and hoping for comms connection any other ideas greatly received. Feeling bit more hopeful now
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Update, when i turned ignition to 2 the throttle clicking continued i went into relay box and disconnected top loom of wires from ecu this stopped the clicking, i re-connected with ignition key in same position i.e.not moved from 2 and clicking remained quiet i turned key and car started first time but in limp mode 1100rpm with spanner light and tc lights on, once ignition turned off back to clicking noise! This shows fuel getting there anyway,could this be crank sensor omegod? £60 odd quid gamble , as i say twiglet hopefully coming round saturday with tech 2 and hoping for comms connection any other ideas greatly received. Feeling bit more hopeful now
Just thinking out loud here Paul, . . . Twiglet , if he comes , might . . .& I stress might . . ;) ;) have a spare known good
used crank sensor you could try for elimination purposes. ;) ;)
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I have a known good spare he could try,providing the one from a 2.5 is the same as 2.6. :y
Having said that,from whats just been described it doesn't sound like a crank sensor problem,although Im far from an expert.
Any signs of moisture/ corrosion/ poor connections anywhere around the plug etc at the ECU when it was unplugged ? :-\
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I carry a spare sensor in the boot (next to the spare wheel). In 150,000 miles of Omega ownership I have had to fit two new crank sensors, I haven't used the spare wheel once ::)
The crank sensor would normally be my first suspect but I don't understand why the clicking relays :-\
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I have a known good spare he could try,providing the one from a 2.5 is the same as 2.6. :y
Having said that,from whats just been described it doesn't sound like a crank sensor problem,although Im far from an expert.
Any signs of moisture/ corrosion/ poor connections anywhere around the plug etc at the ECU when it was unplugged ? :-\
I have an old 2.5 one in the shed . .different from the one on my 2.6 though. Although there are 2 types of 2.5 sensors I think.
Also my 2.6 is bosch & the 2.5 is siemens as far as I can remember .
At least trying another known good one on Pauls car would be another item eliminated from causing the problem IMO :-\
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If the crank sensor is working the tacho needle will move and the warning light will go out when the starter motor is cranking.
Old, known good, crank sensors often fail when they are disturbed so keep an open mind if swapping to a second-hand sensor doesn't have the anticipated result.
I still think it is a basic electrickery problem. Have you had the cowl off and had a good sniff around the ignition switch? It is not unknown for Vauxhall ignition switches to self destruct.
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yep took the cowling off column all seemed ok,no sign of any moisture i think its something being sent to the ecu but dont know what it is?As i say when engine running in limp mode spanner on and tc on, could a crank sensor go on 62k or is it an age thing.?
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I wasn't concerned about moisture. The failure occurs if a fixed contact overheats and melts the plastic switch base. The contact then sinks into the plastic and a ridge prevents the contacts making properly (which causes more overheating)
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couldn't see any melting or smell burnt plastic, the moisture bit was about the ecu wiring, sorry for confusion, answering more than one post at once----thanks again, with you oofers helping i'll see this car back on the road yet ! :)
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bit nervous of the relay bypass (not good on electrics) Zirk i would need you to run it by me in baby talk sorry! Crank sensor has not been ruled out (couldnt get any fault codes due to comms error last time ,trying again soon with tech2 so might work :-\
really appreciate help, rang up auto specialists other side of Ipswich, most unhelpful bloke wanted £40 to pick car up(5 miles)£45 +vat to possibly diagnose fault(same cost if cant comunicate with car) when i said i'll have to get car back after diagnostics he said probably be too much cost to fix car so get a scrap yard to take it away ! This is a 62k car surely it cant come to that can it? :'( :'( :'(
If your not comfortable with it then dont do it, tbh I would be wacking 12v directly on the fuel pump itself or as close as I could get to it, rather than shorting relays out, but that just me. ;)
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Now the bonnet struts have run out of gas..........i give up!
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Now the bonnet struts have run out of gas..........i give up!
Some here if needed
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Thanks Rob will need some, providing i can get some joy with Twiglets tech 2 hopefully on Saturday
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Now the bonnet struts have run out of gas..........i give up!
Nice bit of 2 x 1 par timber cut to length to wedge in as a temporary measure until rest of the problems are sorted . ;) ;)
Get it wedged into 2 nice locations where it can't slip though . . don't want it slipping & the falling bonnet removing any of your body parts :( :(
Any more progress on the main problem ?
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Now the bonnet struts have run out of gas..........i give up!
Nice bit of 2 x 1 par timber cut to length to wedge in as a temporary measure until rest of the problems are sorted . ;) ;)
Get it wedged into 2 nice locations where it can't slip though . . don't want it slipping & the falling bonnet removing any of your body parts :( :(
Been there, done that. It hurts :-[
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Now the bonnet struts have run out of gas..........i give up!
Nice bit of 2 x 1 par timber cut to length to wedge in as a temporary measure until rest of the problems are sorted . ;) ;)
Get it wedged into 2 nice locations where it can't slip though . . don't want it slipping & the falling bonnet removing any of your body parts :( :(
Been there, done that. It hurts :-[
Estate Tailgate hurts more :-X
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Only if the latch is fitted :-X
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Piece of wood is new temporary strut ,a chap was supposed to come round monday night to have a look but failed to show :(
Contacting Twiglet tomorrow to hopefully come saturday with tech2 Local garages dont seem keen on V6 Ommys
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Piece of wood is new temporary strut ,a chap was supposed to come round monday night to have a look but failed to show :(
Contacting Twiglet tomorrow to hopefully come saturday with tech2 Local garages dont seem keen on V6 Ommys
Could be a blessing in disguise Paul , wouldn't let a Joe Bloggs' Motor Repairs local garage anywhere near my V6 omega >:( >:(
Lets see what Twiglet uncovers on yours if he can get there at the weekend ;) ;)
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I'll let you know results of test Al ,just sent text to Twiglet
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Update :Twiglet very kindly came round with Tech 2 ,after having problems communicating (as Lazdocker did) he managed to get in with engine running (after unplugging ECU, and re-plugging in)and got the codes up as follows:P0220 throttle pedal position sensor/switch "B" low imput. Second code was P0120 throttle pedal position sensor/switch "A" circuit high input. The third code was P1700 service vehicle soon request from transmission module. Can anyone decifer anything from this information which might help me on my starting problem, i would be most grateful. Thanks again twiglet.
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Update :Twiglet very kindly came round with Tech 2 ,after having problems communicating (as Lazdocker did) he managed to get in with engine running (after unplugging ECU, and re-plugging in)and got the codes up as follows:P0220 throttle pedal position sensor/switch "B" low imput. Second code was P0120 throttle pedal position sensor/switch "A" circuit high input. The third code was P1700 service vehicle soon request from transmission module. Can anyone decifer anything from this information which might help me on my starting problem, i would be most grateful. Thanks again twiglet.
Working on the plugs around the ECU seems to be the only thing you have done so far that has made any improvement. I would spend some time checking for cable damage /loose connections / corroded connectors in the vicinity (not necessarily the ECU plug, you will have disturbed other components while you were there).
High & low sensor inputs are often caused by intermittent connections. Gearbox codes are often second hand codes triggered by duff information being sent by the engine ECU (so don't completely ignore it but assume that it will clear when the engine ECU is happy)
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Thank Andy :'(Just stripped off insulation tape from connections around ECU ,no joy relays and throttles continue to open/shut :'(
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It is difficult to do much more than offer encouragement from a distance :(
What else would have been pulled about when you unplugged the ECU? I'm assuming the fuse block on top of the battery, all the big cables, the earth bolt under the battery tray and the wiring across the front of the engine to the throttle housing.
You shouldn't need to strip any insulation to find a poor connection (though you will to make a repair if you find one).
With the ignition on, and relays chattering, you need to find a wire or connector that, when pushed or pulled, causes the chattering to stop.
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It is difficult to do much more than offer encouragement from a distance :(
What else would have been pulled about when you unplugged the ECU? I'm assuming the fuse block on top of the battery, all the big cables, the earth bolt under the battery tray and the wiring across the front of the engine to the throttle housing.
You shouldn't need to strip any insulation to find a poor connection (though you will to make a repair if you find one).
With the ignition on, and relays chattering, you need to find a wire or connector that, when pushed or pulled, causes the chattering to stop.
+1 :y that would be my line of logic too Paul.
Throttle position sensor/s is one thing that you have not had a look at though . Could be worth having a wiggle around the sensor wiring at the pedal end if appropriate. Not sure whats down there to be honest :-\ . But just assuming that the sensor at the throttle end would have been changed when you replaced complete throttle body assembly. so pedal end is a possible suspect :-\
HTH :y
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Sorry for the delay in adding my comments Paul, the wife was doing the online shop on the laptop, and apparently that is more important! ::)
When I first turned the ignition on, the eml and emission lights flickered (almost as you would expect to see with an intermittant earth fault), this was accompanied by the throttle body butterflies chattering. At this point my tech2 would not communicate with the engine ecu. It would however talk to the gearbox ecu and various other control modules around the car.
With the ignition still on, Paul then released the locking clip on the engine ecu multiplug, just enough to stop the chattering, and then reconnected it. At this point the tech2 would communicate with the ecu quite happily. The car would also start and run now, however it will not rev over approx. 1200rpm no matter how much throttle I applied. This makes me think that there is a problem with a throttle position sensor somewhere. Paul has already swapped out the throttle body with no change, so to me it is pointing towards the sensor on the pedal itself.
There were lots of fault codes stored in various ecus relating to can-bus errors and communication issues with the ecu, but I suspect that these may be being thrown up because of the way Paul is disconnecting the ecu with the ignition on.
I did have a good look at all the wiring around the ecu, and also the loom to the throttle body, but saw nothing to concern me. All plugs were fully home, and all earthing points were tight and corrosion free.
Unless anyone can think of anything else, I think the next logical step would be to swap out the throttle pedal assembly, and see if that resolves the problem.
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Im pretty sure I have a spare throttle potentiometer in the shed Paul can borrow to try to prove/disprove the point. :y
Should be able to just unplug the wiring from his pedal and plug it into this one and operate it by hand,without the need to remove his complete pedal assembly etc. :y
Drop me a PM Paul and see what we can arrange.Im back & forth to Colchester every day at the moment,so hopefully we can arrange something.This has gone on too long.Needs sorting. :y
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Thanks everyone, having another look today at connectors etc. Albitz if you could find a pedal sensor that would be great only problem i'm working in Southwold next week at the moment but wil PM when your way cheers
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Sounds to me like the connector into the ECU is intermittent if it's that that needs to be wiggled to get the ECU to power up. Could well be that some of the electronic throttle connections are dodgy too, so I wouldn't rush out and start replacing the throttle pedal sensor until the connection has been resolved, personally. Changing parts will just add other potential problems.
Are the ECU connector pins all OK - none bent or damaged. Worth a squirt of switch cleaner into the connector, perhaps?
I'm guessing it's the section of loom that runs from the ECU into the main car loom. I think this goes via the big plugs behind the battery, so potentially a small section of loom that could easily be replaced?
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Sounds to me like the connector into the ECU is intermittent if it's that that needs to be wiggled to get the ECU to power up. Could well be that some of the electronic throttle connections are dodgy too, so I wouldn't rush out and start replacing the throttle pedal sensor until the connection has been resolved, personally. Changing parts will just add other potential problems.
Are the ECU connector pins all OK - none bent or damaged. Worth a squirt of switch cleaner into the connector, perhaps?
I'm guessing it's the section of loom that runs from the ECU into the main car loom. I think this goes via the big plugs behind the battery, so potentially a small section of loom that could easily be replaced?
Stated to check connections in here 3x times now ;) that is likeliest area for connection breakdown-need a small screw driver to close up terminals a bit-the spede part opens up--heat maybe?
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Sounds to me like the connector into the ECU is intermittent if it's that that needs to be wiggled to get the ECU to power up. Could well be that some of the electronic throttle connections are dodgy too, so I wouldn't rush out and start replacing the throttle pedal sensor until the connection has been resolved, personally. Changing parts will just add other potential problems.
Are the ECU connector pins all OK - none bent or damaged. Worth a squirt of switch cleaner into the connector, perhaps?
I'm guessing it's the section of loom that runs from the ECU into the main car loom. I think this goes via the big plugs behind the battery, so potentially a small section of loom that could easily be replaced?
Stated to check connections in here 3x times now ;) that is likeliest area for connection breakdown-need a small screw driver to close up terminals a bit-the spede part opens up--heat maybe?
i have been conversing with OP by phone Symes , I'm pretty certain he has checked all the connections several times & nothing has shown up as yet :-\ :-\
But as we know there a lot of connections ::) ::)
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What does it do with the throttle pedal pot disconnected?
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Been on car all day now took apart all visible connections ,cleaned and re-fitted. Thought i had slight result but didnt happen, the earth wire on ecu to neg. on battery didn't seem great so inserted temporary one and this eased throttle clicking ,so cleaned earths again under battery shelf but still clicking and no start. Disconnected throttle pedal connector and no change (worth a try though thanks SJC)
If i earth ecu to neg. on battery using a spanner the clicking stops but car would not start,as said before only way to trick car to start is to disconnect/re-connect one of the main looms on the ecu but then only 1100rpm and gets hot quickly i know this is getting boring but i really am giving it a go so thanks for all your patience.
It seems to me that something is sending a message to ecu which is causing problem?
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Before i try to find someone to look at my electrics does anyone think its worth renewing crank shaft sensor or am i just wasting my money?
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can you beg/ borrow throttle pedal potentiometer ?? as that what code reader got? or check connections to/from it :y
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PM'd Albitz think he might be able to help cheers Symes
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Got your message.Will text you in the morning.We should be able to arrange something for tomorrow.
Ive had another long day of hospital visiting,but now Im off down the pub for some much needed relaxation juice.
Speak soon mate. :y
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Thanks so much Albitz will give throttle sensor a try tommorrow and report results
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Tried potentiometer from albitz and no joy , contacted localish mobile mechanic but haven't got back to me from answer phone message, does anyone have any last ideas as nobody local seems to want to take a look at any price! I've really tried with this one and cant seem to get to the bottom of it :-\ :'(
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I know you've checked this or been told already, but are you 100% certain all of the wire connectors have been refitted to the battery post lugs & are tight and clean? The reason I say this is I neglected to check mine after having the battery off and one of the thin wires had slipped down the side of the battery tray out of sight and I had a similar problem to yours :-\.
I hope you get to the bottom of it soon matey, it must be so frustrating for you! :(
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thanks Phil your the first member who has encountered a similar problem to mine. I will check again to see if any of the wires are loose etc. but at this point it feels like i'm getting no where and going around in circles.
I do appreciate your reply, cheers, Paul.
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Shame the potentiometer didn't work,but it was worth a try and at least crosses one more thing off the list.
I think a good autoelctrician rather than a garage may be the way forward,unless you get lucky and find its something simple as Phil suggests.
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hey just thought-have you dropped your keys--no not mad-wonder if little chip is in key-for immobilizer :y
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hey just thought-have you dropped your keys--no not mad-wonder if little chip is in key-for immobilizer :y
I advised Paul to check this out at the very start of this problem & "chip" was OK. Car will sometimes start the car with both keys after a bit of "fiddling" with the ECU wiring connectors, but will only rev to 1100 RPM :-\ :-\
On that subject ( 1100 rpm) Seem to remember Dbug once posting about the cam sensor causing that problem on his F/L v6 :-\
I understand this problem started after the battery was removed , charged & replaced (please correct me if I'm wrong Paul) so IMO it must be a simple wiring /earthing /electrical connection problem where something has been disturbed or disconnected when the battery was removed . Could the ignition switch be causing this ? A bad intermittant connection & confusing the ECU?
I also seem to remember talking on the phone to him trying a few things & we got the car started, but don't remember Paul saying car was limited to 1100 RPM at that time :-\ :-\
I cannot remember anyone ever mentioning the "Chattering throttle butterflys" issue before though . . . strange problem this is indeed & Paul must be be really frustrated that no one on here can help him
I don't know where we go from here . . . Lazydocker & Twiglet have both been to look at the car , Kevin wood & several other knowledgable members have advised by posting on here without success.
Paul has been trying to locate a localish auto electrician , but that could just be a waste of money as he would probably just go over whats already been done :-\ :-\
What next is the question ? :( :(
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Can we rewind to the very start.... what caused the battery to go flat?
Also, has a different ECU been tried?
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Can we rewind to the very start.... what caused the battery to go flat?
Also, has a different ECU been tried?
Best that the OP answers this but to move on I understand the car was left unused standing for some time & battery was taken off to be charged . . but Paul will confirm this .
Can another ECU just be installed ? or does it have to be Tech 2'd to the car ?
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To swap the ECU you'd either need just the ECU and a Tech2 or an ECU with paired chip reader and key - the key doesn't have to be in the ignition, it just has to be next to the chip reader, so it can be done without too much dismantling for the purpose of a test.
This would be my next move. Most everything else has been tried.
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Thanks all, battery went flat because lack of use over winter, charged up ,startd perfectly round block couple of times,no probs,only when i tried day or so later did problems begin. To try ECU change if i read correctly i need ECU,ignition chip reader and keys.Looked on ebay and there is a set on there for £150 umm..... bit of a gamble anyone got any ideas?
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Oh man, that sucks - it ran ok then went t!t$ up :(
Post a wanted ad in parts saying you need a loan with possible purchase (i.e. if it sorts the problem).
Another one on ebay for £50, has the chip alone (without a key) but that's all you need. There is a mobile number to phone - I'd make sure they are already paired and not some random parts thrown together.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-6V6-AUTO-YZ-2-6SE-ECU-CHIP-AA-0261206490-09173199-/230991398716?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35c829073c (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-6V6-AUTO-YZ-2-6SE-ECU-CHIP-AA-0261206490-09173199-/230991398716?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35c829073c)
If you search using "vauxhall omega 2.6 ecu -transmission -abs", it turns up a few around £70 too.
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Hello SJc sent yourself PM about this ebay item what do you think?ebay no. 261233267773 thanks Paul
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Albitz loan service can loan these parts for you to try.Only possible problem is that they are from a 3.2
Would need someone to confirm that the 3.2 ecu will be ok to plug into a 2.6. :-\
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Albitz loan service can loan these parts for you to try.Only possible problem is that they are from a 3.2
Would need someone to confirm that the 3.2 ecu will be ok to plug into a 2.6. :-\
:y
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Would imagine maps will be slightly out but would still run the engine good enough to determine if it's the ECU at fault.
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[
If i earth ecu to neg. on battery using a spanner the clicking stops but car would not start,as said before only way to trick car to start is to disconnect/re-connect one of the main looms on the ecu but then only 1100rpm and gets hot quickly i know this is getting boring but i really am giving it a go so thanks for all your patience.
It seems to me that something is sending a message to ecu which is causing problem?
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Could it be earthing problem and immobilaiser fault at the same time ???
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Thanks 3.2 seem to have different part numbers, the cheapo one i looked at on ebay was also wrong numbers, there is another one for £70 odd or best offer so might take that route(cheaper than garage)
Did mess with earth on ECU to try things but even completely separate earth didn't cure problem
ECU change seems next move as auto electric technician not go back to me i know its the w/e but a text would suffice
cheers everyone on here
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Thanks 3.2 seem to have different part numbers, the cheapo one i looked at on ebay was also wrong numbers, there is another one for £70 odd or best offer so might take that route(cheaper than garage)
Did mess with earth on ECU to try things but even completely separate earth didn't cure problem
ECU change seems next move as auto electric technician not go back to me i know its the w/e but a text would suffice
cheers everyone on here
Why??????? Albs has agreed to loan you an ECU set ??? ^^^^^^^^^ reply #95
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Do you think it will do the business Rob i just thought when SJC said about mapping thing? it might not work, i'll PM Albitz he has been a superb help throughout along with lots of others cheers
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We can only but try and see if it helps.Reading this thread has just reminded me - I now need to go and remove the relevant bits from the car before it gets too dark. ::) ;D
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OOF is working at its best true Omega loyalists! thanks Albitz sent PM
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And replied. :y
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Do you think it will do the business Rob i just thought when SJC said about mapping thing? it might not work, i'll PM Albitz he has been a superb help throughout along with lots of others cheers
Ignore that. It`ll work, only difference would be where the ECU fuels the engine according to what MAF is fitted so yours being a smaller engine and hence draws a less air, less fuel will be delivered
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Thanks Rob ,if i get this motor on the road again i'm coming on a meet with a large case of beer! I'll give the 3.2 a try Albitz is on the case as we speak
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No probs, it`ll get sorted eventually
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Got the ECU off the car.Will remove the transponder thingy in the morning as
I cant remember how to at the moment the light will be better. ;D
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Got the ECU off the car.Will remove the transponder thingy in the morning as I cant remember how to at the moment the light will be better. ;D
Just put your lips together and blow :y
No, wait, that's not it ::) pop the barrel out and it falls off, or just give it a tug :y
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:o :o :o :o :o :o that is a chanel 4 moment ;D
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Got the ecu etc kindly from Albitz cant try yet as my Ma has been taken ill so with her ,will post when i've tried spare ECU cheers all
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Oh, not good, hope she's ok.
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Thanks SJC (her tickers not good) poor old girl.
Regards car i put Albitz's 3.2 ECU in place of my own one connecting wire looms and earth ,then connected his transponder to my connector under ignition barrel with his key/chip taped to it ,turned ignition to second position and clicking stopped at throttles, only light which flashes is spanner light (which continues to flash)tried starting engine but no go ,turns over but no fire. Took connector from doner transponder and put back in my ignition transponder and nothing changed (i.e. no clicking/flashing spanner light)When i put my ECU back in the clicking returned ,can anyone make anything of this, appreciate any help thank you
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connected his transponder to my connector under ignition barrel with his key/chip taped to it
only light which flashes is spanner light
Still getting immobiliser problem (flashing spanner). Did you remove your chip from the key when attempting to start
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yes did that Rob only after essex Al's advice though. But do you think the ones i'm putting in are not talking to eachother?
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yes did that Rob only after essex Al's advice though. But do you think the ones i'm putting in are not talking to eachother?
Spoke with Paul , reminding him to remove his transponder chip from his key while trying to start car with the "new" chip/key taped near ignition barrel .
Constant flashing spanner light is immobilisor problem I believe . :-\
But progress being made as no "clicking butterflies" anymore with this new ECU :y :y
Waiting to hear next installment ::) ::)
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Does the replacement transponder have to be actually fitted around the ignition barrel as opposed to just connected to existing plug and left hanging :-\ :-\
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Just went and took my transponder from steering column and put it away from car fitted "new" one ,didn't make any difference thanks for thinking of it
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Does the replacement transponder have to be actually fitted around the ignition barrel as opposed to just connected to existing plug and left hanging :-\ :-\
I think OP was advised earlier in thread that that would work :-\ :-\
Thinking myself that it may need to around the barrel though :-\ :-\
also . . remember having the constant flashing spanner light & no start myself a few months ago & was advised to do a "Re set" by switching to position 2 & holding any button on key for a few seconds to lock & unlock doors. My car then started 1st turn & has been fine since .
worth a try Paul ;)
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Now going to try Al thanks
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It will unlock doors/lock from outside but not when key is in ignition?
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Just spoke to newly "GOD STATUS" essex big al and after putting doner chip in my key ,along with transponder around ignition barrel,and 3.2 ECU in place ,i locked/unlocked doors from outside and tried again to start and it started with no warning lights. It revs normally ,surging a little but will replace ecu with 2.6.
I cant thank all you oofers enough particularly Essex Al,Albitz,Lazydocker,SJC,Twiglet,Symes,Robg and many others this forum really pulled in and i imagine this is why it was originally created so pleased hope it keeps going! :) :) :)
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So guessing summat is amiss with the ECU then :-\
Still at least the car now works :y
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BRILLIANT !! It was starting to get under my skin almost as much as yours mate. :y ;D
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Just spoke to newly "GOD STATUS" essex big al and after putting doner chip in my key ,along with transponder around ignition barrel,and 3.2 ECU in place ,i locked/unlocked doors from outside and tried again to start and it started with no warning lights. It revs normally ,surging a little but will replace ecu with 2.6.
I cant thank all you oofers enough particularly Essex Al,Albitz,Lazydocker,SJC,Twiglet,Symes,Robg and many others this forum really pulled in and i imagine this is why it was originally created so pleased hope it keeps going! :) :) :)
;D ;D ;D ;D dunno why it took us so long . . . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
but as ex taxi al says looks like a dodgy ECU
guessing pauls a happy chappie now ;D ;D ;D
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You bet i'm happy really started to get to me, i was so fed up last weekend i nearly called breakers!
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Great stuff!!
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You bet i'm happy really started to get to me, i was so fed up last weekend i nearly called breakers!
Never call them . . you know who to call . . . So who you gonna call . . . "The Oofers !" ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well done for not giving up---now you are a real miggy owner--fought on regardless-- :y :y :y :y :y :y
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Thanks for help mate , they do test you these migs , good job i love it.! :)
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Thanks for help mate , they do test you these migs , good job i love it.! :)
we all do mate
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I think this is the first time we've ever seen one of these ECUs fail. :o
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I think this is the first time we've ever seen one of these ECUs fail. :o
Ah, I work with computers so I don't trust them as far as I could throw one!
Odd one though, eh?
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I think this is the first time we've ever seen one of these ECUs fail. :o
Ah, I work with computers so I don't trust them as far as I could throw one!
Odd one though, eh?
There's a bit of a difference between what we'd normally call a computer and an ECU, though (especially when it comes to the stability of the software!).
Sounds to me like the ECU has perhaps suffered a solder joint failure around the pin that drives the engine relay, or some other component in that signal path.
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Yep,most unusual to say the least. :y
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Really pleased to see you've got sorted! :y
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Thanks for your imput Phil ,getting 2.6 ecu soon then back on the road! :y
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Toledodudes good lady wife returned the test parts I loaned him this evening.The package was a lot bigger than when it went to him though. On opening it up I discovered this was due to the fact that it contained 12 cans of Tetleys smooth. :)
Thanks Paul,your a gent. 8) :y
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Toledodudes good lady wife returned the test parts I loaned him this evening.The package was a lot bigger than when it went to him though. On opening it up I discovered this was due to the fact that it contained 12 cans of Tetleys smooth. :)
Thanks Paul,your a gent. 8) :y
Can't see that stopping the clicking though ;) :D :D
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Toledodudes good lady wife returned the test parts I loaned him this evening.The package was a lot bigger than when it went to him though. On opening it up I discovered this was due to the fact that it contained 12 cans of Tetleys smooth. :)
Thanks Paul,your a gent. 8) :y
Can't see that stopping the clicking though ;) :D :D
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That was a lovely gesture by Paul :y
And Oh yes it will in Albs case! The Tetleys will lubricate his falsies & stop them clicking against his pallete ;D ;D ;)
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Toledodudes good lady wife returned the test parts I loaned him this evening.The package was a lot bigger than when it went to him though. On opening it up I discovered this was due to the fact that it contained 12 cans of Tetleys smooth. :)
Thanks Paul,your a gent. 8) :y
Can't see that stopping the clicking though ;) :D :D
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That was a lovely gesture by Paul :y
And Oh yes it will in Albs case! The Tetleys will lubricate his falsies & stop them clicking against his pallete ;D ;D ;)
lol ;D ;D
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I love this site and the oofers on here , more good news fitted the 2.6 ECU and everything seems fine, no warning lights and engine as it was,so very happy :) :) :) :) :D
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Good effort 8)
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Delighted for you Paul . . well done for sticking with it . . job done ;)
Thinking we had better get some sort of Essex/Suffolk / Anywhere East Coast ish meet arranged so we can have a look at this mig of yours thats caused so much grief ;D ;D ;D