Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: jb on 09 June 2013, 20:13:10

Title: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: jb on 09 June 2013, 20:13:10
Just thought members might be interested on my dyno results today at the dyno at Santa Pod PVS.

The car is an 02 saloon ex Humberside training car manual with lsd. I bought it in 2006 with 63k and now its on 82k.

Totally standard car which has always felt very quick compared to other Omega's I have owned and now I know why - knocking out 229.5 bhp at 6200 rpm !
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: terry paget on 09 June 2013, 20:59:04
Most impressive. Is it auto or manual?
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: TheBoy on 09 June 2013, 21:18:03
Most impressive. Is it auto or manual?
Manual with LSD - 2nd sentence :)
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: serek on 09 June 2013, 21:39:12
Just thought members might be interested on my dyno results today at the dyno at Santa Pod PVS.

The car is an 02 saloon ex Humberside training car manual with lsd. I bought it in 2006 with 63k and now its on 82k.

Totally standard car which has always felt very quick compared to other Omega's I have owned and now I know why - knocking out 229.5 bhp at 6200 rpm !
that's good result  :y
mine was 221,5 bhp with outany mods with 160K on clock
then who knows but was fast for omega too :)
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: chrisgixer on 09 June 2013, 21:39:51
More than standard. Q is why?

 :y

Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: 05omegav6 on 09 June 2013, 21:44:42
Dodgy dyno perhaps :-\
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: tunnie on 09 June 2013, 21:51:02
LSD diff ratio altering things, what if dyno was setup for standard ratio diff?  :-\

We've seen enough ex-plod to know their engines are not modified.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: TheBoy on 09 June 2013, 21:52:53
2 mass produced engines will give 2 different power outputs.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: albitz on 09 June 2013, 22:19:50
Vauxhall have long been known for quoting conservative power figures for their engine,while Ford on the other hand are known for the opposite.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: TheBoy on 09 June 2013, 22:22:14
Vauxhall have long been known for quoting conservative power figures for their engine,while Ford on the other hand are known for the opposite.
Aye, my 1.6 Focus, supposedly 105bhp IIRC, must have produced all of about 30bhp. PoS.

Did I mention that Focus is a heap?
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: zirk on 10 June 2013, 01:10:14
LSD diff ratio altering things, what if dyno was setup for standard ratio diff?  :-\

We've seen enough ex-plod to know their engines are not modified.

Probably seen, or more to the point, owned more ex plod than you have (not wishing to sound aggressive here), some are modified, depends on which Force and for what use.

In my experience, most are standard, some have re chip or remap, some Ive had have Gas Flowed and widened Throttle Bodies, and Gas flowed inlet pipes. I've even come across a 3.0 from NI that had a Turbo bolted to it.

Most have LSD but standard Diff ratio's, come across a couple that have an Auto LSD Difs fitted to a Manual giving better acceleration over standard, cant see any reason why that would effect Dyno results though as the Transmission and Diff loss is calculated on the Dyno Engine wind down.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: terry paget on 10 June 2013, 08:52:44
I read in Straight Six News how these dynamometers work. My recollection is that they do not measure BHP on the road, they measure BHP at the wheels by driving rollers with the engine, then the rollers drive the engine at the same rpm to measure the power loss in transmission. They add that figure to the first figure, and announce the total as the engine output.

Is that right, or am I talking nonsense? I never fully understood the method.

Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: Kevin Wood on 10 June 2013, 09:43:27
They measure torque at the wheels using a retarder on the rollers with a strain gauge measuring the applied force. Multiply that by roller RPM and you have power.

The losses are calibrated out by doing a "coastdown" whereby the car is declutched at peak RPM and the rate at which the speed of the rollers decays is measured. This takes you back to power at the flywheel. With a well calibrated road operated correctly and compensated for weather conditions it can be very accurate. With a "cap on backwards" chav at the controls tweaking it for the biggest "pub figure" it's a waste of time, so results can vary.

Don't be fooled into thinking power at the wheels means anything. The losses when the wheels are strapped down onto the rollers are far higher than when on the road so a coastdown is absolutely necessary to get a meaningful figure.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: terry paget on 11 June 2013, 08:38:15
LSD diff ratio altering things, what if dyno was setup for standard ratio diff?  :-\

We've seen enough ex-plod to know their engines are not modified.





Most have LSD
Do most explods have LSDs? I have had six explod Senators and two explod Omegas and never had an LSD yet. I once had an LSD fitted Peugeot 505 GTI and it was enormous fun on icy roads. I see Omega LSDs sold on e-bay for premium prices. Could it be that certain police forces specified LSDs?

I was led to believe by my car handbook that traction control would apply rear brakes when wheelspin was detected making LSDs unnecessary, but it does not seem to work that way.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 June 2013, 11:14:48
Do most explods have LSDs? I have had six explod Senators and two explod Omegas and never had an LSD yet. I once had an LSD fitted Peugeot 505 GTI and it was enormous fun on icy roads. I see Omega LSDs sold on e-bay for premium prices. Could it be that certain police forces specified LSDs?

I thought LSD was standard on the 24v Senator anyway?

Quote
I was led to believe by my car handbook that traction control would apply rear brakes when wheelspin was detected making LSDs unnecessary, but it does not seem to work that way.

TC works that way in the sense that it makes it less easy to crash it when you overcook it on the power.

An LSD actually gives you more traction (and doesn't suddenly shut the throttle when you most need it open!) so it's certainly the better solution if "pressing-on" is a requirement.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2013, 11:46:41
Indeed :y

I have found both mine to be very progressive in the snow, allowing a hint of slip before locking up and getting on with it, with the ABS/TC kicking in under duress :y
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: Iain on 11 June 2013, 12:40:10
All the Monza's and the 3 Senators of which 1 was an early 12V and two 24V all had slippers fitted
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: terry paget on 11 June 2013, 13:12:39
My handbook says on p156
 "If necessary, a spinning driving wheel is braked. This improves the vehicle's directional control and driving power, particularly on snow and ice as well as on wet or slippery roads."

Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: zirk on 11 June 2013, 14:13:15
LSD diff ratio altering things, what if dyno was setup for standard ratio diff?  :-\

We've seen enough ex-plod to know their engines are not modified.

Most have LSD
Do most explods have LSDs? I have had six explod Senators and two explod Omegas and never had an LSD yet. I once had an LSD fitted Peugeot 505 GTI and it was enormous fun on icy roads. I see Omega LSDs sold on e-bay for premium prices. Could it be that certain police forces specified LSDs?

I was led to believe by my car handbook that traction control would apply rear brakes when wheelspin was detected making LSDs unnecessary, but it does not seem to work that way.
Ive had about 8 ex plod all post 2000 go through my hands, all but one had LSD fitted, in fact the one that didn't I reckon was fitted but not working.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: aaronjb on 11 June 2013, 14:17:43
My handbook says on p156
 "If necessary, a spinning driving wheel is braked. This improves the vehicle's directional control and driving power, particularly on snow and ice as well as on wet or slippery roads."

Which sounds great in theory, but in practice results in a whole load of wheelspin on the low-grip side followed by the ECU stamping on the back brakes and any progress you were making being suddenly completely halted ;D

There's one particular junction I use out of a single-track side road that has such an inclination that the inside rear wheel is always completely unloaded - with TC turned off I can make decent progress out of the side road without worrying, with TC turned on my choices are either to pootle out at walking pace and then try and scamper away from the oncoming traffic (it's a fairly busy main road) or get half way out and have the ECU decide enough is enough and turn me into a rather nice stationary road block..  :-[

The M3 with it's LSD has no such problems (although the lane is very much not suited to the M3 - much harder to plough onto the mud at the side to avoid the oncoming crazies!) :)
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2013, 14:22:26
The ESP set up on Merc Sprinters is that dangerous as well. At least without it you can light up the rear tyres ::) then people can see that you're really trying...  :-\
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: aaronjb on 11 June 2013, 14:23:21
The ESP set up on Merc Sprinters is that dangerous as well. At least without it you can light up the rear tyres ::) then people can see that you're really trying...  :-\

;D Surely people know you're trying simply because you're driving a Sprinter? Well known as the fastest of all white vans*..

(*Which everyone knows are the fastest production vehicles available ;))
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: 05omegav6 on 11 June 2013, 14:24:24
Second only to BMWs in the Special lane ;D

Oh and Astra vans ::)
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 June 2013, 15:26:12
The ESP set up on Merc Sprinters is that dangerous as well. At least without it you can light up the rear tyres ::) then people can see that you're really trying...  :-\

;D Surely people know you're trying simply because you're driving a Sprinter? Well known as the fastest of all white vans*..

(*Which everyone knows are the fastest production vehicles available ;))

Ahh. The merc "Sphincter". Aptly named, judging by most of those who drive them. :-X  ::)

Had one pull out on me this morning. >:(
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2013, 19:00:49
My handbook says on p156
 "If necessary, a spinning driving wheel is braked. This improves the vehicle's directional control and driving power, particularly on snow and ice as well as on wet or slippery roads."
TC works by reducing power to slipping wheel. LSD works by applying more power to the non spinning wheel.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: Broomies Mate on 11 June 2013, 19:41:32
My handbook says on p156
 "If necessary, a spinning driving wheel is braked. This improves the vehicle's directional control and driving power, particularly on snow and ice as well as on wet or slippery roads."
TC works by reducing power to slipping wheel. LSD works by applying more power to the non spinning wheel.

I understand that's how the older TC system worked.  I believe the later system physically brakes the 'spinning' wheel.
Title: Re: 3.2 Special Dyno Results
Post by: TheBoy on 11 June 2013, 19:53:19
My handbook says on p156
 "If necessary, a spinning driving wheel is braked. This improves the vehicle's directional control and driving power, particularly on snow and ice as well as on wet or slippery roads."
TC works by reducing power to slipping wheel. LSD works by applying more power to the non spinning wheel.

I understand that's how the older TC system worked.  I believe the later system physically brakes the 'spinning' wheel.
Older system reduces power to all driven wheels, newer system reduces (effective) power to spinning wheel via brake.