Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Kate on 18 June 2013, 20:17:07
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Hi all.
I just did a couple of days training as a recovery driver but decided not to go ahead with the job due to the long working hours (Six days on and two off with 12 hours shifts). Also, it was self employed but the company provided the truck and fuel.
I really like this job and it suits me really well but there is no way I can work 72 hours a week.
Is it possible to make a profit in this business if you have your own truck?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :y
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Might be worthwhile if you could get some contacts - maybe garages? MOT testing places? or even on ebay offering to deliver vehicles for buyers?
I've had need of a recovery truck a few times, and will be needing one soon to remove my old MV6 shell to the scappy :'(
Dunno how much you'd make tho.
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I looked into this a while ago as something I wanted to set up with a transit type recovery truck but after reading all the regs you have to comply with in order to get insurance I understood why there are loads of these recovery trucks on ebay as people have started to bail out of the sector - sorry to sound negative but if like me you were thinking that the truck was the major outlay then be aware the insurance is just as much if not more.
Darren
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I looked into this a while ago as something I wanted to set up with a transit type recovery truck but after reading all the regs you have to comply with in order to get insurance I understood why there are loads of these recovery trucks on ebay as people have started to bail out of the sector - sorry to sound negative but if like me you were thinking that the truck was the major outlay then be aware the insurance is just as much if not more.
Darren
So I'll need to get a quote.
Would ordinary van insurance be cheaper? To move furniture instead?
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Could you not negotiate the hours days? Don't blame you though that is a long shift rotation.
For me its 3 days on, 3 days off.
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Could you not negotiate the hours days? Don't blame you though that is a long shift rotation.
For me its 3 days on, 3 days off.
I asked but it was a firm no.
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That's pretty common for the industry; our normal pattern is 5 12-hour shifts, plus 3 nights on call per week, with split days off. Times are bad at the moment, so we're on reduced hours of 10 hour shifts.
I don't pay the bills, but insurance for the vehicle isn't going to be cheap, plus you'll need accidental damage cover if you're going to work for dealers and body shops. If working in the LEZ, you'll need a compliant vehicle. A Transit or Sprinter with ramps(they don't have the weight capacity for a slidebed) is going to seriously limit the size and weight of cars you can legally pickup. The Transit we used to have couldn't legally carry an Omega, and they're not that heavy.
Ramps make loading and unloading cars with damaged suspension much more difficult. Did you do any winching of non-rolling cars? It's difficult to explain without actually doing, as some of the techniques are counter-intuitive.
My '60plate Canter does 300 miles on £100 of fuel. That's a sensible day's work.
Many(most? all?) of the cheaper trucks are priced like that because they're knackered; the Isuzu I had last sold for £5k with 540,000 miles on it but it was only LEZ compliant for another12months, and it still needed a a fair amount of work(which was why we sold it!) on both the truck and the body. And that was a well maintained one, but when a replacement alternator is £400, brake pads are £120, tyres £80 each(and it has 6) just the basic running costs soon mount up. At that sort of age/usage, hydraulic and electrical issues are also common.
So unless you're a really good saleswoman, with a healthy amount of cash to buy some decent kit, I think you're unlikely to make any money.
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So I'll need to get a quote.
Would ordinary van insurance be cheaper? To move furniture instead?
Because you are moving other peoples goods you would need 'special' insurance.
I was tempted to enter the long distance courier trade once and the company I was to work for first hire you as self employed to see how efficient you are then hire you full time, but after phoning around for this 'special' insurance (sorry forgot what it was called, something like 'Goods in Transit' cover) I was quoted £8,700 for a 2004 Mercedes Sprinter LWB.
I immediately went home. Lol.
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Thanks very much for the thorough advice. :y
It is obviously not possible for me to do this then.
Maybe private hire taxi work would be possible for me then?
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A friend of mine is an owner operator and did very, very well in the past, now he is struggling. He has several contracts with garages and insurance companies, but doing the work and getting paid are 2 different things. He used to regularly do 8-10 scrap cars a day, now he is lucky if it is 1 or 2 a week.
If you have your own vehicle you will need an operators licence and IME if you appear of VOSAs radar for any reason then expect regular random spot checks. You will also need a waste disposal licence.
Personally, I think you would be better looking for work in a growing rather than declining industry.
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That's pretty common for the industry; our normal pattern is 5 12-hour shifts, plus 3 nights on call per week, with split days off. Times are bad at the moment, so we're on reduced hours of 10 hour shifts.
I don't pay the bills, but insurance for the vehicle isn't going to be cheap, plus you'll need accidental damage cover if you're going to work for dealers and body shops. If working in the LEZ, you'll need a compliant vehicle. A Transit or Sprinter with ramps(they don't have the weight capacity for a slidebed) is going to seriously limit the size and weight of cars you can legally pickup. The Transit we used to have couldn't legally carry an Omega, and they're not that heavy.
Ramps make loading and unloading cars with damaged suspension much more difficult. Did you do any winching of non-rolling cars? It's difficult to explain without actually doing, as some of the techniques are counter-intuitive.
My '60plate Canter does 300 miles on £100 of fuel. That's a sensible day's work.
Many(most? all?) of the cheaper trucks are priced like that because they're knackered; the Isuzu I had last sold for £5k with 540,000 miles on it but it was only LEZ compliant for another12months, and it still needed a a fair amount of work(which was why we sold it!) on both the truck and the body. And that was a well maintained one, but when a replacement alternator is £400, brake pads are £120, tyres £80 each(and it has 6) just the basic running costs soon mount up. At that sort of age/usage, hydraulic and electrical issues are also common.
So unless you're a really good saleswoman, with a healthy amount of cash to buy some decent kit, I think you're unlikely to make any money.
A bit like this one that took out old Mig to meet it's maker........
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/floodm_photos/d920effb.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/floodm_photos/media/d920effb.jpg.html)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/floodm_photos/10653fbe.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/floodm_photos/media/10653fbe.jpg.html)
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That's pretty common for the industry; our normal pattern is 5 12-hour shifts, plus 3 nights on call per week, with split days off. Times are bad at the moment, so we're on reduced hours of 10 hour shifts.
I don't pay the bills, but insurance for the vehicle isn't going to be cheap, plus you'll need accidental damage cover if you're going to work for dealers and body shops. If working in the LEZ, you'll need a compliant vehicle. A Transit or Sprinter with ramps(they don't have the weight capacity for a slidebed) is going to seriously limit the size and weight of cars you can legally pickup. The Transit we used to have couldn't legally carry an Omega, and they're not that heavy.
Ramps make loading and unloading cars with damaged suspension much more difficult. Did you do any winching of non-rolling cars? It's difficult to explain without actually doing, as some of the techniques are counter-intuitive.
My '60plate Canter does 300 miles on £100 of fuel. That's a sensible day's work.
Many(most? all?) of the cheaper trucks are priced like that because they're knackered; the Isuzu I had last sold for £5k with 540,000 miles on it but it was only LEZ compliant for another12months, and it still needed a a fair amount of work(which was why we sold it!) on both the truck and the body. And that was a well maintained one, but when a replacement alternator is £400, brake pads are £120, tyres £80 each(and it has 6) just the basic running costs soon mount up. At that sort of age/usage, hydraulic and electrical issues are also common.
So unless you're a really good saleswoman, with a healthy amount of cash to buy some decent kit, I think you're unlikely to make any money.
A bit like this one that took out old Mig to meet it's maker........
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/floodm_photos/d920effb.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/floodm_photos/media/d920effb.jpg.html)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/floodm_photos/10653fbe.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/floodm_photos/media/10653fbe.jpg.html)
I reckon that was at its limit with a Mig on the back ::)
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Thanks very much for the thorough advice. :y
It is obviously not possible for me to do this then.
Maybe private hire taxi work would be possible for me then?
If you don't have family that rely on you, I know a guy who makes £700 a week doing airport transfers working 4 days a week (but very very long hours. 20 hours to be precise.) He always snags up the airport transfers which are the easiest. No hassle, no drunk people, no getting lost trying to find direction, simply relax and cruise.
He drives a slightly tuned 2006 2.4T Volvo V70 running on LPG. Not exactly the usual Ford Galaxy's you see but a damn sight more economical.
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That's pretty common for the industry; our normal pattern is 5 12-hour shifts, plus 3 nights on call per week, with split days off. Times are bad at the moment, so we're on reduced hours of 10 hour shifts.
I don't pay the bills, but insurance for the vehicle isn't going to be cheap, plus you'll need accidental damage cover if you're going to work for dealers and body shops. If working in the LEZ, you'll need a compliant vehicle. A Transit or Sprinter with ramps(they don't have the weight capacity for a slidebed) is going to seriously limit the size and weight of cars you can legally pickup. The Transit we used to have couldn't legally carry an Omega, and they're not that heavy.
Ramps make loading and unloading cars with damaged suspension much more difficult. Did you do any winching of non-rolling cars? It's difficult to explain without actually doing, as some of the techniques are counter-intuitive.
My '60plate Canter does 300 miles on £100 of fuel. That's a sensible day's work.
Many(most? all?) of the cheaper trucks are priced like that because they're knackered; the Isuzu I had last sold for £5k with 540,000 miles on it but it was only LEZ compliant for another12months, and it still needed a a fair amount of work(which was why we sold it!) on both the truck and the body. And that was a well maintained one, but when a replacement alternator is £400, brake pads are £120, tyres £80 each(and it has 6) just the basic running costs soon mount up. At that sort of age/usage, hydraulic and electrical issues are also common.
So unless you're a really good saleswoman, with a healthy amount of cash to buy some decent kit, I think you're unlikely to make any money.
A bit like this one that took out old Mig to meet it's maker........
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/floodm_photos/d920effb.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/floodm_photos/media/d920effb.jpg.html)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/floodm_photos/10653fbe.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/floodm_photos/media/10653fbe.jpg.html)
I reckon that was at its limit with a Mig on the back ::)
Limit? I recon it was on the bump stops..... ::) ::)
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Vamps,that mig looked way to tidy to be heading to car heaven :-\
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Vamps,that mig looked way to tidy to be heading to car heaven :-\
We loved it, but sadly written off, not claimed, after a deer ran out in front of it, took the washer bottle out, the cost and faff on sorting it was not worth it, was a lowly 2.0L GLS auto, bought blind off ebay that cost us nothing but service items......she loves her 2.6 now though.... :D :D
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Thanks very much for the thorough advice. :y
It is obviously not possible for me to do this then.
Maybe private hire taxi work would be possible for me then?
Budget £500 to get your badge.
You need the following:
DSA Taxi test, basically a strictly marked driving test, £78.
New medical, from your GP, to Hgv/Psv standard, £160 at my GP.
New CRB check, £44.
Licencing Conditions test, varies from Council to Council, but typically £25-30.
Badge, issued once all above done, again varies, but typically £200-250.
TFL website has all the info for the London Boroughs, or if you live a bit further out, your local authority will be responsible for the whole process.
If you want your own car, be vary carefull and ask lots of questions at your LA, as many have vehicle restrictions such as age/history/size and so on. First year Taxi insurance will be at least £1800, NCBs not transferable. Estate cars better as you can carry four people AND their luggage. MPVs cost more to buy, more to run, have crap luggage space, and are often only licenced for 5 passengers.
If you want to work for yourself, you will also need an Operators Licence for the place you live, again LA can help, these vary from £150-300.
As for not wanting to work 72 hr weeks, if you start out on your own expect to be on call 24/7, 72 hours per week is probably the minimum. If you work for a firm, using their car expect 30-40% commission, so £3-400 for every £1000 metered, taking your tax from that.
Using your car, commission will rise to 60-80%, possibly plus a fixed radio rental of around £100 per week, but you pay for fuel, car, tyres, servicing, repairs etc,etc...
And if you turn over more than £79k you'll need to be VAT registered.
Welcome to my world ::)
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Thanks very much for the thorough advice. :y
It is obviously not possible for me to do this then.
Maybe private hire taxi work would be possible for me then?
Budget £500 to get your badge.
You need the following:
DSA Taxi test, basically a strictly marked driving test, £78.
New medical, from your GP, to Hgv/Psv standard, £160 at my GP.
New CRB check, £44.
Licencing Conditions test, varies from Council to Council, but typically £25-30.
Badge, issued once all above done, again varies, but typically £200-250.
TFL website has all the info for the London Boroughs, or if you live a bit further out, your local authority will be responsible for the whole process.
If you want your own car, be vary carefull and ask lots of questions at your LA, as many have vehicle restrictions such as age/history/size and so on. First year Taxi insurance will be at least £1800, NCBs not transferable. Estate cars better as you can carry four people AND their luggage. MPVs cost more to buy, more to run, have crap luggage space, and are often only licenced for 5 passengers.
If you want to work for yourself, you will also need an Operators Licence for the place you live, again LA can help, these vary from £150-300.
As for not wanting to work 72 hr weeks, if you start out on your own expect to be on call 24/7, 72 hours per week is probably the minimum. If you work for a firm, using their car expect 30-40% commission, so £3-400 for every £1000 metered, taking your tax from that.
Using your car, commission will rise to 60-80%, possibly plus a fixed radio rental of around £100 per week, but you pay for fuel, car, tyres, servicing, repairs etc,etc...
And if you turn over more than £79k you'll need to be VAT registered.
Welcome to my world ::)
London, mini cabs have no rules, or did not when I did a bit in the early 90's, as long as I paid for hire and reward insurance, and paid a company for a radio there were no other restrictions, have things changed? CRB I had anyway....... ;)
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How did you get that mud spray pattern on n/s front wheelarch? J turn?
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj284/floodm_photos/d920effb.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/floodm_photos/media/d920effb.jpg.html)
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Vamps the times they have a changed :y
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/taxisandprivatehire/26862.aspx (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/taxisandprivatehire/26862.aspx)
London has finally caught up with the rest of the UK in this regard. The link applies specifically to London, but it typical of the rest of England. Certainly all the areas I have personally looked at are variations of these requirements :y
Just to add, having a CRB check already is irrelevant, as you have to have a separate one for each application ::)
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I got a quote for a motor trade policy to cover car transportation instead of recovery. It came out as £1600.
Does anyone think that this would be a worthwhile business? Working for small garages and private clients etc?
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How about applying to the AA or RAC. Do they still have recovery only drivers ?
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1600 is not a bad price for insurance - I was paying that a couple of years ago for the mig :(
There's only you can work out if it will be a worthwhile business.
Assume that it will cost you 50p a mile to run the truck (I have no idea - I just doubled what the 3T transit SWB costs me in diesel)
£35 a week for insurance = £1 an hour
Maintenance on truck + tax = £1500 a year? = £30/week = £1/hr
Insurance same = £1 an hour
Depreciation on truck (replacement cost in time)=£5000 in 3 years = (again) £1/hr
Wage = £12 an hour (no idea, seems a reasonable amount, considering how many unpaid hours you'll do)
Gives you a break even cost of £16/hr + 50p a mile.
Consider an average trip of 30 miles (round trip to/from base) takes 1.5 hours, including loading/unloading
Your breakeven would be £39 - call it £50 - if you had to charge £30 to compete locally, your hourly wage would be £6 an hour after your fixed costs (insurance, tax, maintenance, depreciation)
A day trip - say 100 miles each way +loading = (8 hours * £16) + (200 miles x 50p) = (£128 + £100) = £228 breakeven. If you had to charge £150 to get the job, you would make £18 for the day (and go broke!)
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How about applying to the AA or RAC. Do they still have recovery only drivers ?
Last time I spoke to a AA recovery driver, they were a local firm contracted to the AA - probably the job that Kate applied for originally.
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Margins are tight, rule of thumb is £1 per mile, with a minimum charge. If your self employed you'll need to be budgeting for Tax and NI as well as vehicle costs.
Another consideration is that if the gross weight is over 3.5t, then you're getting into the realms of tachographs, operators licences and everything else that goes with it, so you either limit yourself to smaller/lighter cars and use a transit type vehicle, or step up a notch and go for a 7.5-12t flatbed.
I don't intend to be negative, merely playing devils advocate, but any new venture will depend on alot of hard work, time, some cash and a hefty dollop of luck.
If you want a regular income from the get-go along with regular hours, then you're perhaps better off looking for a regular job :-\
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, but be sure to research every little detail before diving in. Alot of people trip themselves up early on by either not being prepared or overlooking the legislation for any given industry, and being self employed the responsibility rests with you and noone else :y
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Thanks again for all the advice. :y
I'd like to give it a go but I reckon that finding the right truck will be very difficult. Some you see are wrecks that have covered millions of miles.
There certainly are lots of things to think about.
Does anyone know of any for sale?
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Vamps the times they have a changed :y
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/taxisandprivatehire/26862.aspx (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/taxisandprivatehire/26862.aspx)
London has finally caught up with the rest of the UK in this regard. The link applies specifically to London, but it typical of the rest of England. Certainly all the areas I have personally looked at are variations of these requirements :y
Just to add, having a CRB check already is irrelevant, as you have to have a separate one for each application ::)
I guessed things would have changed, they needed to really....... :y
New DBS should remove the need for multiple CRB's............ :y :y
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You reckon :-\
My licencing numpty insisted me having a fresh on inspite of my producing a one week old one from my Airside pass. The same bloke refuses to take badge renewals etc with cash, insisting on cheques ;D His reasoning... it might be cosidered a bribe ::) a sure sign of corruptedness if ever there was :-\
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I'd really like to work for myself as no-one will give me a chance.
I send CV's and application forms and get no reply. It's horrible being bored out of your mind.
It's the feeling of being useless that's the worst.
No use to anyone. :'(
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I'd really like to work for myself as no-one will give me a chance.
I send CV's and application forms and get no reply. It's horrible being bored out of your mind.
It's the feeling of being useless that's the worst.
No use to anyone. :'(
Come back North and try these......they also have a taxi company....... :y :y
http://www.turnersofsedgefield.co.uk/recovery.asp?cid=113888165
This company is part of my early retirement plan, which is getting nearer by the day..... :-X :-X
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How about Minibus hire?
A tidy 17str transit is about £6k. Sure, you still need to go through the whole Operators Licence process, and you are restricted by a tachograph, but there are possibilities for large family airport/cruise terminal runs, evening trips to/from town. :y
National Express/Airlinks/TGM/OFJ might also be worth a shout :-\ but guessing from your previous suggestions, that you're done with buses :-\
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I'd really like to work for myself as no-one will give me a chance.
I send CV's and application forms and get no reply. It's horrible being bored out of your mind.
It's the feeling of being useless that's the worst.
No use to anyone. :'(
Come back North and try these......they also have a taxi company....... :y :y
http://www.turnersofsedgefield.co.uk/recovery.asp?cid=113888165
This company is part of my early retirement plan, which is getting nearer by the day..... :-X :-X
Thanks Mike. Sedgefield is a nice area but I'm not really in the position to move at the moment. I wouldn't be able to afford the moving costs.
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How about Minibus hire?
A tidy 17str transit is about £6k. Sure, you still need to go through the whole Operators Licence process, and you are restricted by a tachograph, but there are possibilities for large family airport/cruise terminal runs, evening trips to/from town. :y
National Express/Airlinks/TGM/OFJ might also be worth a shout :-\ but guessing from your previous suggestions, that you're done with buses :-\
Thank's, that's a great idea but I don't think I'd be able to raise that much capital. Parking a minibus here in Fulham is restricted.
I think I might try and move out Berkshire way.
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Has anyone ever ran a catering van business?
Is there any money in it?
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Has anyone ever ran a catering van business?
Is there any money in it?
From people that I know that have run these the most important three things to make money are location, location and location. Somebody I knew that had a pitch of the A34 used to make a mint, but getting a good pitch is not easy.
I would imagine that like most low skill self-employed trades the competition is intense.
If you are looking for a low skill, no investment job that makes good money. I knew somebody that used to work for a company that specialized in clean large houses in the Ascot and Sunningdale areas. This might be worth looking into. Likewise with all of the rich people and big houses in central London are there similar opportunities?
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Has anyone ever ran a catering van business?
Is there any money in it?
From people that I know that have run these the most important three things to make money are location, location and location. Somebody I knew that had a pitch of the A34 used to make a mint, but getting a good pitch is not easy.
I would imagine that like most low skill self-employed trades the competition is intense.
If you are looking for a low skill, no investment job that makes good money. I knew somebody that used to work for a company that specialized in clean large houses in the Ascot and Sunningdale areas. This might be worth looking into. Likewise with all of the rich people and big houses in central London are there similar opportunities?
Thanks very much I really like that idea. :y
I think I will look into this as getting money for investment is quite difficult.
:-* :-* :-*
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the money now is in catering to the rich. the poor and middle classes have nothing to spend. 2 friends of mine have specialised and are doing well one walks dogs for the wealthy, one rips out fitting for top of the range range rovers and replaces them with leather everything.
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If you are looking for a low skill, no investment job that makes good money. I knew somebody that used to work for a company that specialized in clean large houses in the Ascot and Sunningdale areas. This might be worth looking into. Likewise with all of the rich people and big houses in central London are there similar opportunities?
Where there's muck there's brass!! :y