Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Grrrrrr on 21 June 2013, 13:31:21
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Hi all,
Been a while since I posted. Hope all are well.
For a while now (9 months?) I've had an oil leak but I've not managed to see where from. There is a little down the front of the block but I've been waiting for a spare day to take the inlet manifold off and determine where it is coming from. Up till recently it wasn't too bad but all of a sudden it has started to get a LOT worse (1 pint of oil per 1000 miles) and yesterday I noticed a puff of blue smoke on starting. The smoke is only on startup and disappears after 5 seconds but definitely enough to view in the passenger wing-mirror. This points at the valve-stem seals (or a seal of somesort) which seams unlikely as the car has only done 80k miles or so. ???
Anyway, a quick search on here reveals the 01 2.6 v6 has an issue with valve-stem seals. What's my car? Got it in one. So, maybe the idea isn't so far-fetched. :o
So, I suspect I have 2 issues. A small leak somewhere under the inlet manifold (and previous experience points to cam-covers) which I'll have a look at when I get around to whipping the inlet manifold off. However, the bigger worry for me is the valve-stem seals. I believe you have to have the cams off and the heads off for this. I don't have the tools or experience for this. So, question:
1) Is my diagnosis sounding correct or is there something I'm missing?
2) Assume it is the valve-stems, is there anyone on here who could help me fix them if the correct amount of silver crossed their palm?
Cheers,
J
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I did have this issue on mine at around 30,000 miles (2.6 2001). I was covering a lot of miles at the time and I remember having to top up oil circa 3 times per month...but I was putting motorway miles in at the time.
It was sorted by Vx under warranty eventually so no personal hands on experience for the fix. Never had a problem with oil consumption since and I'm now at 108,000 miles.
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Your reasoning makes sense to me, if you have blue smoke coming out of the exhaust then oil is being burnt - must come in via valve seals or past the rings, if you have oil under the car there is a leak.
It's unfortunate you have both at the same time, best to fix the easiest one and then see how bad the other is. Valves or rings will be expensive. Maybe you have oil dripping onto the exhaust causing smoke but then the smoke is typically white or was when national gave me a leaking oil filter. And of couse it wouldn't be coming out of the exhaust pipe.
Only other possibility I can think of for buring oil is diesel in the petrol but I'm sure you would know about that and it wouldn't drop your oil level.
Blue smoke only at startup would suggest valve stems rather than rings (oil drips down the stems while the car is standing ready for when you start the car).
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Early 2.6's were a victim of GM's penny pinching, they used shit stem seals, sadly not a lot you can bar replace them.
You could try Elite Pete, JamesV6CDX for work :y
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:'(
Suspected as much.
I'll have a look and see who's closest ... or trade her in for something silly. Monaros much be affordable by now, surely?!
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Thanks, chaps.
Looks like JamesV6CDX sometimes visits Buckinghamshire so could be a winner there.
J
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Do try and fix the oil leak first. What oil are you using? You might reduce the amount of oil getting past the valve stem by changing to a thicker oil.
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Do try and fix the oil leak first. What oil are you using? You might reduce the amount of oil getting past the valve stem by changing to a thicker oil.
Ive got the same problem on start up so what oil would you recommend changing to :-\ , mite give it a shot before i go the whole hog and do the stem seals :y
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I change the oil every 5k. I use 10/40. Guess I could try 20/50.
To be honest there is so little oil showing of the leak I don't think it is much of an issue. I washed it off and it took ages for a thin film to build up again. Working again tomorrow but as soon as I have a spare day I'll whip the inlet manifold off and have a good nose around. You're right though: assess leak first and then worry about the valve seals.
J
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I change the oil every 5k. I use 10/40. Guess I could try 20/50.
To be honest there is so little oil showing of the leak I don't think it is much of an issue. I washed it off and it took ages for a thin film to build up again. Working again tomorrow but as soon as I have a spare day I'll whip the inlet manifold off and have a good nose around. You're right though: assess leak first and then worry about the valve seals.
J
Ill try some of that and see .
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The number before the W is the viscosity of the oil cold, the number after when hot. So 20W50 is thicker (slower to drip down your valve stems ) when both cold and hot than 10W40.
If you're getting oil burnt mainly at startup it will likely be the oil left overnight over the valves draining down them into the the cylinder (though obviously as soon as you switch off there will be some hot oil there too). So I would try upping the first rating say to 20W50. If its oil being burnt during normal running but you still want cold start protection then up the second rating eg to a 10W60.
20W50 might reduce your oil leak too, worth a try and the cheapest fix for both if it works.
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i recently started a thread about using 20/50w oil as i am having a similar problem as yourself,may be worth a read first before you use a thicker oil ;)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=115463.0
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Acceptable oil consumption is 0.97l /1,000 miles for the 2.2, 2.6, 3.2 petrol by the way
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i recently started a thread about using 20/50w oil as i am having a similar problem as yourself,may be worth a read first before you use a thicker oil ;)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=115463.0
+1 - particularly with reference to potential issues with hydraulic lifters ;)
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i recently started a thread about using 20/50w oil as i am having a similar problem as yourself,may be worth a read first before you use a thicker oil ;)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=115463.0
+1 - particularly with reference to potential issues with hydraulic lifters ;)
This was my thinking last night and you posted my concerns about the lifters before i could post ::) ;D :y Thicker will starve the lifters of oil no :-\ So only real solution is to solve the problem and replace the stem seals :(
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Give darth bottom groomer a pm
he did mine on the old car :y :y
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What are the long term issues of having leaky stem seals apart from the puff of smoke at start up? ???
I had a 2ltr Sierra a few years ago on which the stem seals were shot and it ran fine. A friend of mine did them for a few beer tokens and to be honest I'd have never paid a garage to do them as the car wasn't worth much.... :-\
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What are the long term issues of having leaky stem seals apart from the puff of smoke at start up? ???
I had a 2ltr Sierra a few years ago on which the stem seals were shot and it ran fine. A friend of mine did them for a few beer tokens and to be honest I'd have never paid a garage to do them as the car wasn't worth much.... :-\
You'll get oil burnt in the cylinders which will foul up the plugs but worse than that the burnt oil will damage and shorten the life of the cats (as will misfires caused by fouled plugs). They still might outlive the car though.
I'd try a 10W50 oil, won't make a difference on cold oil but may reduce hot oil seeping past the stems. It wont damage your lifters as it is within VX spec. Arguably 10W60 is within spec too: "Only the following viscosity classes are permitted: SAE 10 W-30 (or higher than 30)".
All that will cost you is an oil change.
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What are the long term issues of having leaky stem seals apart from the puff of smoke at start up? ???
I had a 2ltr Sierra a few years ago on which the stem seals were shot and it ran fine. A friend of mine did them for a few beer tokens and to be honest I'd have never paid a garage to do them as the car wasn't worth much.... :-\
You'll get oil burnt in the cylinders which will foul up the plugs but worse than that the burnt oil will damage and shorten the life of the cats (as will misfires caused by fouled plugs). They still might outlive the car though.
I'd try a 10W50 oil, won't make a difference on cold oil but may reduce hot oil seeping past the stems. It wont damage your lifters as it is within VX spec. Arguably 10W60 is within spec too: "Only the following viscosity classes are permitted: SAE 10 W-30 (or higher than 30)".
All that will cost you is an oil change.
10/50 it is then for starters then if that dont stop it its time to break out the spanners :'(
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So, 20/50 out. 10/40 the best and 10/50 might be worth a go.
Good suggestions but surely as the oil cools it'll just start sliding past again? I'm a bit of a stickler mechanically. If something isn't right it niggles at me. Based on that I'm going to have to do something!
First off though is stop the other leak.
Cheers,
J
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So, 20/50 out. 10/40 the best and 10/50 might be worth a go.
Good suggestions but surely as the oil cools it'll just start sliding past again? I'm a bit of a stickler mechanically. If something isn't right it niggles at me. Based on that I'm going to have to do something!
First off though is stop the other leak.
Cheers,
J
+ 1 , so thinking mite be best putting the effort into taking the head off and doing the stem seals :-\
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does head need skim-someone told me they do?-if not-when you want to do head?? can offer help on weekends-if any good :y
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Would the head need skimming? Just clean it up and put it back, isn't it? Bit beyond my ken at this stage. Never had one that far apart before.
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Would the head need skimming?
NO
Does that help? ;D :y
Head skimming on V6 causes all sorts of issues. There are no problems with leaking, pressuring, or anyhing to indicate the heads are warped. It's simply just the stem seals inside it. Best bet is just carefully clean all surfaces before reassembly.
Easy job, just time consuming :y
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Would the head need skimming?
NO
Does that help? ;D :y
Head skimming on V6 causes all sorts of issues. There are no problems with leaking, pressuring, or anyhing to indicate the heads are warped. It's simply just the stem seals inside it. Best bet is just carefully clean all surfaces before reassembly.
Easy job, just time consuming :y
james-we on about veccy-not v6 ;) but you right if v6- :y
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Veccy? Mine's a V6 mig.
Had the inlet manifold off today. Didn't seems too bad. Slight sign of leakage from the cam-covers as suspected but very little. Cleaned the breathers as I had it off. On reassembly I noticed something a little odd. The big breather pipe at the back that splits into a Y (outer pipes on the plenum) was twisted round 360 degress blocking it off. I paid someone to do the cam-belt last November-ish and it looks as though they twisted the pipe to keep it out the way and forgot to untwist it. Could this have produced enough back-pressure to cause the cam-covers to leak slightly? I'm hoping so.
I'll run it a while and see if the oil leakage drops. If it does then that's a relief. If it doesn't then it'll be cam-covers and then see where we go from there. While we're on the subject of cam-covers, are the standard GM plastic ones the way to go or do I remember someone saying you could get alloy replacements that were superior?
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Veccy? Mine's a V6 mig.
Had the inlet manifold off today. Didn't seems too bad. Slight sign of leakage from the cam-covers as suspected but very little. Cleaned the breathers as I had it off. On reassembly I noticed something a little odd. The big breather pipe at the back that splits into a Y (outer pipes on the plenum) was twisted round 360 degress blocking it off. I paid someone to do the cam-belt last November-ish and it looks as though they twisted the pipe to keep it out the way and forgot to untwist it. Could this have produced enough back-pressure to cause the cam-covers to leak slightly? I'm hoping so.
I'll run it a while and see if the oil leakage drops. If it does then that's a relief. If it doesn't then it'll be cam-covers and then see where we go from there. While we're on the subject of cam-covers, are the standard GM plastic ones the way to go or do I remember someone saying you could get alloy replacements that were superior?
Not on here you won't. General opinion is that ally covers cure the gaskets leaking but the pressure has to go somewhere and the next weak point is the crank seal which compared to cam cover gaskets is a real pain to do. Just use the plastic covers and make sure the breathers are cleaned properly.
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Veccy? Mine's a V6 mig.
Had the inlet manifold off today. Didn't seems too bad. Slight sign of leakage from the cam-covers as suspected but very little. Cleaned the breathers as I had it off. On reassembly I noticed something a little odd. The big breather pipe at the back that splits into a Y (outer pipes on the plenum) was twisted round 360 degress blocking it off. I paid someone to do the cam-belt last November-ish and it looks as though they twisted the pipe to keep it out the way and forgot to untwist it. Could this have produced enough back-pressure to cause the cam-covers to leak slightly? I'm hoping so.
I'll run it a while and see if the oil leakage drops. If it does then that's a relief. If it doesn't then it'll be cam-covers and then see where we go from there. While we're on the subject of cam-covers, are the standard GM plastic ones the way to go or do I remember someone saying you could get alloy replacements that were superior?
sorry mate-mind wondered-- :-[ :-[ and alloy covers are from veccy-need modifying though iirc :y
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The number before the W is the viscosity of the oil cold, the number after when hot. So 20W50 is thicker (slower to drip down your valve stems ) when both cold and hot than 10W40.
If you're getting oil burnt mainly at startup it will likely be the oil left overnight over the valves draining down them into the the cylinder (though obviously as soon as you switch off there will be some hot oil there too). So I would try upping the first rating say to 20W50. If its oil being burnt during normal running but you still want cold start protection then up the second rating eg to a 10W60.
20W50 might reduce your oil leak too, worth a try and the cheapest fix for both if it works.
Bad advice again from the "oil king" ::) ::)
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