Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: aaronjb on 26 July 2013, 09:48:13
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378728/RAF-Tornado-misses-glider-quarter-second-thanks-lightning-reflexes-fighter-pilot.html
Change of underwear all round?
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Gliders can be very difficult to see... mostly painted white so they merge with the clouds, very thin section high performance wings so no "profile" to see, thin bodies to reduce weight, and they move quite slowly, so little "relative" movement against the background to enable acquisition.
I've come pretty close to having a couple "embedded" in the Herc ..and we were very much slower than a Tornado... :(
"See and be Seen" is the rule in Class G .... and we had 3 pairs of eyes looking out .. Tornado only had the one ... a tad lucky methinks !!!!
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While at the gliding club, and watching Kevs glider in a turn, under certain light conditions, at a cirtain angle and distance, his glider literally vanished from view, then re appeared as the angle and light reflecting off the glider changed.
They are difficult to spot, even when you know they glider is in that part of the sky, as you saw it there a second ago, took a swig of a pint, and looked back up. It can take a god 5 to 10 seconds to get firmly eyes on once again, if the light is unfavourable.
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Agreed that gliders aren't the most visible type of aircraft, especially when closing head-on. That's almost (thankfully not in this case) irrelevant if you're going to be flying at those speeds, though. For good reason, the air navigation order applies a speed limit of 250 Knots IAS to class G airspace below 10,000 feet. Even at that speed, "see and avoid" is going to be a challenge. Fast jet pilots exceed that, and are almost super-human, but the same laws of physics apply.
That incident happened almost overhead Feshiebridge, where there is an active gliding club.
Gliders in that part for the world use predominantly ridge and wave lift to stay airborne, so they will be found flying at low level on the windward side of slopes. A couple of miles from a gliding club during the hours of daylight when the wind is blowing, you can guarantee that.
Doesn't seem the most sensible place to be flying low level in a fast jet, to be honest. A NOTAM would have been nice, if nothing else.
Oh, and come October, I'm going there. 8)
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I might just come and watch
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Agreed that gliders aren't the most visible type of aircraft, especially when closing head-on. That's almost (thankfully not in this case) irrelevant if you're going to be flying at those speeds, though. For good reason, the air navigation order applies a speed limit of 250 Knots IAS to class G airspace below 10,000 feet. Even at that speed, "see and avoid" is going to be a challenge. Fast jet pilots exceed that, and are almost super-human, but the same laws of physics apply.
That incident happened almost overhead Feshiebridge, where there is an active gliding club.
Gliders in that part for the world use predominantly ridge and wave lift to stay airborne, so they will be found flying at low level on the windward side of slopes. A couple of miles from a gliding club during the hours of daylight when the wind is blowing, you can guarantee that.
Doesn't seem the most sensible place to be flying low level in a fast jet, to be honest. A NOTAM would have been nice, if nothing else.
Oh, and come October, I'm going there. 8)
+ 1 :y Bet someone got their ass kicked ::)
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Just thought I'd better read the proper airprox report and, surprise, surprise, the Daily Fail's version is a load of BS. ::)
http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/default.aspx?catid=423&pagetype=90&pageid=11115 (http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/default.aspx?catid=423&pagetype=90&pageid=11115)
Tornado heading 045. Glider heading 065, so not exactly head-on as implied by the Fail's article. As for the ridiculous implication that the Tornado pushed forwards from 250 feet and somehow ended up having made a 180 degree change of direction and ended up flying inverted... Hmm. ::) They didn't even do that in "Top Gun".
The tornado approached the glider from behind and to the glider's right, giving the glider pilot right of way, not that that's really relevant given the late sighting by both pilots. The area was also a notified "low flying area". Doesn't affect either aircraft's right to be there.
Military jets need to fly low level in mountainous regions for training purposes, gliders need to do so to use ridge lift. Neither is a 100% safe, and put the two aircraft, which are, IMHO, incompatible with each other, into the same bit of sky and there are very little safeguards against a collision apart from "random separation" and a chance sighting. Fortunately the latter saved them in this circumstance.
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Ah yes, absolutely head on then, that one.. ;D
I quite like the radio traffic transcript from the next incident down (2013028) - especially as we (my parents and I) were stationed at Linton for a number of years - but this part especially:
NE Flight1 Ldr [Flight1 C/S] are you able to restrict your altitude to 24 thousand feet when you manoeuvre due to the upper air route
Flight1 Ldr NE [Flight1 C/S] um.. affirm er.. if able we’d like to take up to 300 though
NE Flight1 Ldr [Flight1 C/S] if you require higher would you erm.. like to book the East Anglian MTA
Flight1 Ldr NE [Flight1 C/S] negative we’ll erm.. maintain below 240 in that case
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I might just come and watch
It is very interesting IMO.
You might even be under the weight limit. :-[ ;D
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I might just come and watch
It is very interesting IMO.
You might even be under the weight limit. :-[ ;D
Ahh, yes. Mr. Gixer will be on a "big crisps only" diet next time we go to Miah's. No chutneys. No lager. ;)
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I must come and watch Kev :y
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I might just come and watch
It is very interesting IMO.
You might even be under the weight limit. :-[ ;D
Ahh, yes. Mr. Gixer will be on a "big crisps only" diet next time we go to Miah's. No chutneys. No lager. ;)
Pffffffff.... :-\ ;D