Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Gaffers on 05 August 2013, 22:38:05
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As mentioned on another thread, which I unintentionally hijacked :-[, it looks like the Nissan Leaf may be taking pride and place on the driveway chez Guffer in the near future.
Free RFL
Free London Congestion Charge
Free charging point installed at home
£400/year to drive 12k miles (approx.) as opposed to £2k in the focus and nearly twice that in Kitty (the Jaaaag)
Cheap servicing
Plus I can heat/cool the car from anywhere using an App on my phone before getting to the car.
Having done the maths and comparisons with other contenders it is leading the pack at the moment, plus it means I can keep the XJR for a while longer albeit drive her less often. Those longer drives and times when I need to take my bike to club races could be done with a smaller car but I have managed to argue keeping her for now but the new Corsa is lapping at kitty's feet.
Is there an OOF status for pariah? ::) ::) (postcount = 7878)
[awaits good natured abuse and EV slagging] ;D
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I had a Leaf on trial, and I was hoping to dislike it...but it was a great vehicle. It has its issues, but it's a big leap on the road to what we can expect to see. And, as you say it means you can drive something 20mpg'ish when the need arrises ;D
Still, it's not a luminous Mercedes SLS ;D
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I said on tother thread that I would consider an EV,if it does what you require then go for it :y
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I'm seriously considering something like the Leaf for SWMBO
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Oh dear.......does this thread signal the end of the petrolhead?.... :-\ ;)
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Oh dear.......does this thread signal the end of the petrolhead?.... :-\ ;)
No, have you seen how much they cost and less than 150 miles on a charge, may be OK for townies but no good for me and work...... ;) ;)
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I'm seriously considering one of these... :-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4)
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Now that's more like it. :y ;D
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I'm seriously considering one of these... :-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4)
Sounds like a Scalextric car....... :D :D :D
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Oh dear.......does this thread signal the end of the petrolhead?.... :-\ ;)
No, have you seen how much they cost and less than 150 miles on a charge, may be OK for townies but no good for me and work...... ;) ;)
Indeed... No good for me most of the time but ideal for SWMBO who only does 30 miles max, 75 on a really busy day!
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I'm seriously considering one of these... :-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4)
Just whats needed,max torque from zero motor revs :y :y
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I'm seriously considering one of these... :-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4)
Just whats needed,max torque from zero motor revs :y :y
Indeed. I can't see why, when range is so limited, electric cars like the leaf are trying to be family hatches. You're never going to go on a camping holiday in it (unless you're insane) and you'll always need to keep a proper car as a backup so why not make it as small, light and fun as you can?
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Cars are being made for what people think they want. They just make what sells. IMO. :(
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For £17k i would have a second hand vrx8 and plenty change left :P
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Don't think I could live with a car that has a range of 124 miles. What happens when it begins to run out of juice?
I'm retired and I don't actually do a lot of mileage, but I'd need to keep a second car for those occasions when I want to go a bit more than 124 miles, like the annual holiday (day after tomorrow, yippee!) when I might cover 1600 miles (Scotland, then Wales, then back to Suffolk). And what happens if you plan things wrong and get stuck in traffic when you're getting near to the maximum?
Altogether too stressful for an old bloke. :(
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Don't think I could live with a car that has a range of 124 miles. What happens when it begins to run out of juice?
I'm retired and I don't actually do a lot of mileage, but I'd need to keep a second car for those occasions when I want to go a bit more than 124 miles, like the annual holiday (day after tomorrow, yippee!) when I might cover 1600 miles (Scotland, then Wales, then back to Suffolk). And what happens if you plan things wrong and get stuck in traffic when you're getting near to the maximum?
Altogether too stressful for an old bloke. :(
Lets hope its not a reenactment of the film ::) ;D
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I can't find a leccy vehicle that provides sufficient range for my commute without doing damage to the batteries.
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Amperra?
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I could be tempted, if they were cheap enough. As there are a few leccy charge points here at Sky, also I could always open the window and drop a cable down ::)
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Why dont they have a system like bumper cars or trams , no power drain at all ::) ;D
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Why dont they have a system like bumper cars or trams , no power drain at all ::) ;D
Bring back the cable 'car'........ :D :D
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me too.
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Amperra?
50 miles on battery and then 310 miles on £47 worth of petrol appeared to be the stated range when I looked.. for £37,000.
Might as well buy any large super-mini car and get the same sort of economy, it seemed to me..
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This is the future for electric cars and means the government
will make lots of lots of tax revenue charge you by the km mile. :o :o :o :o
http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare (http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare)
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This is the future for electric cars and means the government will make lots of lots of tax revenue charge you by the km mile. :o :o :o :o
http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare (http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare)
Emd's suggestion suddenly doesn't seem quite so frivolous, eh!
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This is the future for electric cars and means the government will make lots of lots of tax revenue charge you by the km mile. :o :o :o :o
http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare (http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare)
Emd's suggestion suddenly doesn't seem quite so frivolous, eh!
Trust those koreans to nick my idea ::) ;D
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Surely hydrogen fuel cell cars are the way forward. :y
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This is the future for electric cars and means the government will make lots of lots of tax revenue charge you by the km mile. :o :o :o :o
http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare (http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-roads-power-electric-cars-2013-8?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailshare)
Emd's suggestion suddenly doesn't seem quite so frivolous, eh!
Trust those koreans to nick my idea ::) ;D
South Korea has the latest technology........North Korea gets by with an Ox and a stick. ;)
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Either way i wouldnt want to live in the south , electric car or not :( Mind you those Korean women are tasty :P ;D
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Amperra?
50 miles on battery and then 310 miles on £47 worth of petrol appeared to be the stated range when I looked.. for £37,000.
Might as well buy any large super-mini car and get the same sort of economy, it seemed to me..
Filled up with LPG today, at 64.7p litre ;)
Who needs Leccy power? :)
Are your miles right, 310 for £47? That's a bit shite ???
My fill up today cost £46.38, for 353 miles. A big chunk of that was town miles, stop start traffic. I got a quite crap 22mpg. (13p mile) Decent runs I can get 27.
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I've now recovered several Leafs with insufficient charge to get home. The owners who have experienced this before, arrange the recovery whilst there is still some charge to move the car.
None of the people I've spoken to have said they would risk 125miles! All of them say that cold, dark, wet weather reduces the range considerably.
There was a reason why electric cars stopped being popular 100 years ago, and it is the same today: the range simply isn't adequate, and it takes too long to recharge.
It's a pity, because the Leaf is actually a pretty good car, especially considering that it's based around a conventional car with the electric drivetrain in the normal place.
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Amperra?
50 miles on battery and then 310 miles on £47 worth of petrol appeared to be the stated range when I looked.. for £37,000.
Might as well buy any large super-mini car and get the same sort of economy, it seemed to me..
Filled up with LPG today, at 64.7p litre ;)
Who needs Leccy power? :)
Are your miles right, 310 for £47? That's a bit shite ???
My fill up today cost £46.38, for 353 miles. A big chunk of that was town miles, stop start traffic. I got a quite crap 22mpg. (13p mile) Decent runs I can get 27.
They're not my miles, they're Vauxhalls ;)
From the Vx website:
For 25 to 50 miles, its lithium-ion battery pack powers the electric drive unit, which provides full vehicle speed and acceleration.
For longer trips, the car’s ‘range-extending’ engine sustains the battery. The range extender, powered by a 1.4-litre petrol-driven generator, can create electricity to power the car for a further 310 miles* – freeing Ampera from the range limitations of pure-electric cars.
Fuel tank capacity (litres) 35.2
35.2 litres = £48.54 at todays prices in the Sainsbury near me, so that's 360 miles (best case!) for £48..
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Well that is rubbish! :o
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The argument over range is not a problem for us. 95% of my trips are below 30 miles, I would say that 98% were below 15. I commute to work on the bike/train.
The leaf is not designed to be your long distance car. If all you do is short journeys a couple of times a day then it will definitely be a suitable choice for you. For those situations where a bot more range is required from time to time then you have 2 choices, have another car available or hire one. Don't forget I am saving at least 2 thousand quid a year on fuel , maybe 3. But I means I get to keep the jag for now for those longer trips and for when I need to take the bike to a race albeit on a reduced mileage insurance.
The leaf is made for shopping, school run, family trips in the local area, short commutes, etc. Inside is quite roomy, I am quite comfortable in the back which is rare in cars this size.
It fits our needs and situation nicely, it won't be for everyone. It would be absolutely perfect if it had the means of fitting a bike rack. One thing is for sure, as batteries develop over the net few years; watch this space. EVs are getting better.
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I keep thinking of electric for my trip to farnborough station (6 miles each way) - but £15k to buy a Leaf rather messes up the figures especially when it stands there all day doing nothing.
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A decade from now the average electric car will have a range of 500 miles on a battery the size of a packet of fags.......perhaps. ;)
I'm surprised that battery technology is moving so slowly........almost to the point of stagnation. Surely some technically minded boffin can push the pace of progress along.
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A decade from now the average electric car will have a range of 500 miles on a battery the size of a packet of fags.......perhaps. ;)
I'm surprised that battery technology is moving so slowly........almost to the point of stagnation. Surely some technically minded boffin can push the pace of progress along.
Indeed, in 1984 you could buy an electric Volkswagen Jetta with a range of 155 miles.. not a lot of progress, there, on the distance front. Although a reduction in price by quite a significant margin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_production_plug-in_electric_vehicles
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A decade from now the average electric car will have a range of 500 miles on a battery the size of a packet of fags.......perhaps. ;)
I'm surprised that battery technology is moving so slowly........almost to the point of stagnation. Surely some technically minded boffin can push the pace of progress along.
Indeed, in 1984 you could buy an electric Volkswagen Jetta with a range of 155 miles.. not a lot of progress, there, on the distance front. Although a reduction in price by quite a significant margin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_production_plug-in_electric_vehicles
Probably weighed about two and a half tons though ::)
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A decade from now the average electric car will have a range of 500 miles on a battery the size of a packet of fags.......perhaps. ;)
I'm surprised that battery technology is moving so slowly........almost to the point of stagnation. Surely some technically minded boffin can push the pace of progress along.
Indeed, in 1984 you could buy an electric Volkswagen Jetta with a range of 155 miles.. not a lot of progress, there, on the distance front. Although a reduction in price by quite a significant margin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_production_plug-in_electric_vehicles
We shouldn't still be at a point where EV owners still have 'fear in their eyes' because they need to turn on the wipers or lights. Those days should be just a distant memory. :-\
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Is it possible to get a car to run on dilithium crystals?.... ::) ::) ::) :)
That way lies the future. :)
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A decade from now the average electric car will have a range of 500 miles on a battery the size of a packet of fags.......perhaps. ;)
I'm surprised that battery technology is moving so slowly........almost to the point of stagnation. Surely some technically minded boffin can push the pace of progress along.
Why the surprise? Battery technology is mostly chemistry with a bit of engineering, neither discipline is known for radical improvements.
The lead acid battery has barely changed in a 100 years; modern ones are a bit more powerful/reliable but are basically the same.
I don't expect the energy supply for electric cars to improve for a very long time.
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A decade from now the average electric car will have a range of 500 miles on a battery the size of a packet of fags.......perhaps. ;)
I'm surprised that battery technology is moving so slowly........almost to the point of stagnation. Surely some technically minded boffin can push the pace of progress along.
Why the surprise? Battery technology is mostly chemistry with a bit of engineering, neither discipline is known for radical improvements.
The lead acid battery has barely changed in a 100 years; modern ones are a bit more powerful/reliable but are basically the same.
I don't expect the energy supply for electric cars to improve for a very long time.
Exactly. Chemistry dictates how much energy you can fit in a car using batteries, and we're not a million miles off the theoretical limit, hence improvements are in tiny increments, and batteries will never deliver what a petrol tank can today. Chemistry also dictates how much energy you can fit in a petrol tank, of course, and it's orders of magnitude greater. Unfortunately, energy as petrol comes ready-stored in a medium from which it is "dirty" to extract the energy.
Hydrogen fuel cells are the only technology that look like delivering what we need in the near future, and hydrogen is a promising medium in which to store and release energy without environmental consequences but there are still some significant challenges there. I don't believe battery powered cars will ever be capable of more than a school run (and everyone knows you need a huge SUV for that) or a nip to the shops - unless people accept that the form factor has to be radically different, and probably, therefore, not really compatible with the rest of the traffic on our roads.
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Well lets hope that they crack on with battery technology as if the LibDems have their way we will all be housebound in 2040! ::) ;D
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/10224801/Lib-Dems-ban-petrol-and-diesel-cars-from-UK-roads-by-2040.html
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if the LibDems have their way
PMSL ;D
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The argument over range is not a problem for us. 95% of my trips are below 30 miles, I would say that 98% were below 15. I commute to work on the bike/train.
The leaf is not designed to be your long distance car. If all you do is short journeys a couple of times a day then it will definitely be a suitable choice for you. For those situations where a bot more range is required from time to time then you have 2 choices, have another car available or hire one. Don't forget I am saving at least 2 thousand quid a year on fuel , maybe 3. But I means I get to keep the jag for now for those longer trips and for when I need to take the bike to a race albeit on a reduced mileage insurance.
The leaf is made for shopping, school run, family trips in the local area, short commutes, etc. Inside is quite roomy, I am quite comfortable in the back which is rare in cars this size.
It fits our needs and situation nicely, it won't be for everyone. It would be absolutely perfect if it had the means of fitting a bike rack. One thing is for sure, as batteries develop over the net few years; watch this space. EVs are getting better.
£26,000 or thereabouts is a lot of money for something that isn't designed to be a long distance car though :o.
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Big progress is being made using nano tube technology to be able to flash charge batteries in the future. Also the latest Tesla has a battery pack where a machine in the garage, removes yours and replaces it with a fully charged one in a few minutes. The manufacturers of the Tesla are working on a grid of garages in the US with such facilities.
So there are challenges but Tesla seem to be by far ahead of the other electric car manufacturers and they are the only profitable electric car maker in the world. They have just paid back a US Government $300m loan early.
So I think with a bit of imagination there are practical solutions to the range problem and I think in the US where there has been a bigger than expected market for electric cars, they are selling well, it will not be long before it becomes a mass market with all of the production scale price reductions.
Hydrogen has major problems, one of which is storing it. The very small molecules means that a full tank will escape and evaporate in about 3 weeks!
In a post fossil fuel world, the most efficient EROEI is probably going to be the nuclear / electricity route. Bio fuels typically have a 0.8 to 1.6:1 ratio, which is not high enough for mass transport systems. Nuclear power generation is typically 30:1 and with the mass production of small Thorium reactors, there is potential for this to go higher.
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I've now recovered several Leafs with insufficient charge to get home. The owners who have experienced this before, arrange the recovery whilst there is still some charge to move the car.
None of the people I've spoken to have said they would risk 125miles! All of them say that cold, dark, wet weather reduces the range considerably.
There was a reason why electric cars stopped being popular 100 years ago, and it is the same today: the range simply isn't adequate, and it takes too long to recharge.
It's a pity, because the Leaf is actually a pretty good car, especially considering that it's based around a conventional car with the electric drivetrain in the normal place.
It is an offence in Spain to run out of fuel and quite rightly in my opinion. I guess running out of charge on an EV would count the same. Far too many accidents/deaths due to idiots just running out of fuel. It is one piece of legislation I would like to be EU wide (much as I dislike the EU) Maybe the answer with an Ev would be to "carry a spare gallon in a can", sort of like a back up battery!