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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Rog on 28 August 2013, 13:20:29

Title: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 28 August 2013, 13:20:29
Like so many others these days my business is highly reliant upon email. Not just for general communication, most of our incoming orders, outgoing quotations, almost everything is by email.

We don't use some free or cheap web based service, we pay megabucks to a company called Daisy plc.

We have not been able to access our email since Friday last week, and cannot do so right now. I have no idea how many orders have been sent. I am expecting a major order for an item of urgent medical equipment, and who knows what else.

I have pestered Daisy for a result, getting nothing but meaningless platitudes.

http://www.daisygroupplc.com/customer-support/service-updates/

I'm not looking for help or advice here, I just need to let off steam    >:(   >:(   >:(   >:(

I will accept that faults happen. I will NOT accept that it takes six days to fix them, and I really don't care that it was a bank holiday weekend. It was not a holiday in Scotland and most of the rest of the world.

There is another point to this though. The NHS, Government, and most businesses are all embracing e-everything, but if it falls down it REALLY falls down and often it only takes one incompetent person in one incompetent company for that to happen. Bring back the carrier pigeon  :y

Needless to say don't ever ever even consider using Daisy for anything. I won't be for much longer once this is all sorted (if !).


Also, our website is also down, but that is less important to use in the short term.   



Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 August 2013, 14:00:55
Downtime of that kind is simply not acceptable for anyone claiming to provide an internet service. Hell, you could do better with a server in your cupboard under the stairs hanging off a broadband line - I wouldn't be surprised if that is how your provider is operating, in fact. ::)
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 28 August 2013, 14:15:34
Downtime of that kind is simply not acceptable for anyone claiming to provide an internet service. Hell, you could do better with a server in your cupboard under the stairs hanging off a broadband line - I wouldn't be surprised if that is how your provider is operating, in fact. ::)

You know, I would have some entrepreneurial sympathy with them if that was the case. It's not. The Daisy Group are huge, and encompass many familiar internet related names from the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Group

I've always found that the smaller the company the better the service. The problem is that the small companies then get bought by bigger ones, and they in turn get bought by even bigger ones and so on. You end up with a huge company and crap service. That is exactly how I ended up using Daisy. I signed up years ago with Advance Internet that have now got lost in the Daisy monolith.
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 August 2013, 14:18:21
Quote
(formerly known as Freedom4 Group plc and Pipex Communications plc)

Everything becomes clear.

Quote
You know, I would have some entrepreneurial sympathy with them if that was the case. It's not. The Daisy Group are huge, and encompass many familiar internet related names from the past.

Just incompetent, then. ::)
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 28 August 2013, 14:27:37

Just incompetent, then. ::)

Yep ! Plus, I suspect that they didn't even start to sort the problem out until after the Bank Holiday Monday. Getting things done and having to pay people over a holiday weekend is probably expensive.
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: 05omegav6 on 28 August 2013, 15:08:33

Just incompetent, then. ::)

Yep ! Plus, I suspect that they didn't even start to sort the problem out until after the Bank Holiday Monday. Getting things done and having to pay people over a holiday weekend is probably expensive.
But not as expensive as losing customers ::)
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 28 August 2013, 17:25:56

Just incompetent, then. ::)

Yep ! Plus, I suspect that they didn't even start to sort the problem out until after the Bank Holiday Monday. Getting things done and having to pay people over a holiday weekend is probably expensive.
But not as expensive as losing customers ::)

I meant expensive for THEM not for me
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 28 August 2013, 17:43:07

UPDATE

I found some of the big bosses of Daisy PLC on LinkedIn. Including the CEO  :y

Invited them to be "Connections" of mine. But I replaced the default invitation with a bit of a polite but short rant   8)

Very soon after, a personal phone call (not from the boss, but high up) explaining the situation in detail and an assurance that I was being moved to top of the list. A faulty server was being physically replaced, "issues" meant that the data had to be manually migrated to the new server. . . . or something like that. Could be BS, but as long as I get my service back I don't care.

I've had NHS customers calling to chase up delivery of orders that we don't even know about.

In the meantime I am looking at email-only companies to get an alternative email address that is completely separate. I don't want one of the free web based ones, I'll pay a bit.

Any recommendations ?
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 August 2013, 10:38:21
I would just go with someone with better uptime, TBH. You can, in any case, specify multiple mail servers on a domain, so a decent service provider shouldn't ever put you in a situation where a failure stops you getting mail as they will have backups to which the mail is routed if a server dies.

Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 29 August 2013, 16:08:20

So, I looked on a well know techie type broadband/internet/website type forum, looked around for reasonable prices reputation etc, bought some new domain names similar to my others, and set about getting set up to inform everyone about a new email address.

NOPE. After a few hours of struggle, and some calls to support, seems there's some problem with Nominet the domain name people. So still no email !  >:(

Will someone tell me who I have to kill to get this sorted  :o
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 August 2013, 16:10:28

Will someone tell me who I have to kill to get this sorted  :o

I doubt it, but I could suggest a few for whom it might ease the frustration a little, and take your mind off it. ;D
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: MR MISTER on 29 August 2013, 16:12:25
Jusdt use hotmail, Rog. What could possibly go wrong? ;D
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 29 August 2013, 16:16:55

Will someone tell me who I have to kill to get this sorted  :o

I doubt it, but I could suggest a few for whom it might ease the frustration a little, and take your mind off it. ;D

Trouble is, I might also enjoy it  ;D
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: aaronjb on 29 August 2013, 16:17:22

So, I looked on a well know techie type broadband/internet/website type forum, looked around for reasonable prices reputation etc, bought some new domain names similar to my others, and set about getting set up to inform everyone about a new email address.

NOPE. After a few hours of struggle, and some calls to support, seems there's some problem with Nominet the domain name people. So still no email !  >:(

Will someone tell me who I have to kill to get this sorted  :o

Don't forget that DNS propagation takes at least 24-48 hours in most cases, so if you did that this morning even if everything went swimmingly it wouldn't be working for most of the world until some time tomorrow..

I've registered a fair few domains over the years (mostly they're with 123-reg now who, at one point, were owned by GX Networks/Pipex!) and I've never had any problems with Nominet themselves..

(N.B. For those in the business - my domains might be with them but my hosting most certainly is not, so I wasn't affected by the Chinese DDoS last year ;))
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 29 August 2013, 16:43:58


Don't forget that DNS propagation takes at least 24-48 hours in most cases, so if you did that this morning even if everything went swimmingly it wouldn't be working for most of the world until some time tomorrow..

I've registered a fair few domains over the years (mostly they're with 123-reg now who, at one point, were owned by GX Networks/Pipex!) and I've never had any problems with Nominet themselves..

(N.B. For those in the business - my domains might be with them but my hosting most certainly is not, so I wasn't affected by the Chinese DDoS last year ;))

The guy I spoke to said something like that  :-\

"GX Networks/Pipex!" - I think they are now part of Daisy group plc, THE VERY ROOT OF MY PROBLEM   >:(

( Yes I know I'm shouting ! - I really need to  >:( )
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: aaronjb on 29 August 2013, 16:59:11
If you're waiting for DNS propagation then I'm afraid there's nothing you can do but wait for the TTLs of any troublesome cached records to expire and everyone to start looking at the correct authoritative DNS servers..

Incidentally 123reg are no longer owned by GX Networks (they were sold off a few years ago) - as I say, I've never had any problems with them personally.

But whoever is setting this up for you should probably have explained how things work - if you're doing it yourself, you might be wise to find someone who knows their onions to do it for you (and who can explain these things up front!) - JMHO, no offence intended :)

[edit] Incidentally - DNS is as DNS is .. it's unlikely to change how it works, fundamentally, any time soon.. heck, DNSsec has been with us since 2004 and is only just starting to get some traction - and that fixes some very real security holes in DNS! Don't fight it, you have to learn to go with it (and to be sure to do it right the first time when it comes to DNS, there's nothing more frustrating than waiting 24 hours, finding you goofed and having to wait again .. trust me, I have that t-shirt somewhere! :))
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 29 August 2013, 19:17:40
I'm just wondering if I have any legal claim against Daisy Group plc, for lost profits and/or inconvenience, not just to my company but possibly to my NHS customers and/or their patients ? They must have some liability and/or responsibility ?
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Gaffers on 29 August 2013, 19:54:12
I'm just wondering if I have any legal claim against Daisy Group plc, for lost profits and/or inconvenience, not just to my company but possibly to my NHS customers and/or their patients ? They must have some liability and/or responsibility ?

That will depend on your contract with them.  No doubt they will have some clause that indemnifies them of any recourse which is probably why they haven't resolved it quickly enough.  Find a supplier who has some decent customer facing SLA/QSA and drop Daisy like a fat chick at the disco.
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 August 2013, 19:58:20
there's nothing more frustrating than waiting 24 hours, finding you goofed and having to wait again .. trust me, I have that t-shirt somewhere! :))

Ahh, that's the T- shirt that comes before the "Hang on! Why didn't I set a really short TTL while I'm dicking about" tea shirt, isn't it? ::)
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: aaronjb on 30 August 2013, 10:56:33
there's nothing more frustrating than waiting 24 hours, finding you goofed and having to wait again .. trust me, I have that t-shirt somewhere! :))

Ahh, that's the T- shirt that comes before the "Hang on! Why didn't I set a really short TTL while I'm dicking about" tea shirt, isn't it? ::)

That's the one! I may or may not have forgotten to do that more than once.. of course, in my case, no money was on the line as it was just my own domains :)


Rog - out of interest (he says, trying not to get sucked in) - what exactly were Daisy providing for you? Just DNS hosting, or are they hosting the mail servers and if so, what kind of mail servers - IMAP/POP3 or an Outlook service?
Title: Re: Seriously cross . . . . about email
Post by: Rog on 30 August 2013, 15:04:38


Rog - out of interest (he says, trying not to get sucked in) - what exactly were Daisy providing for you? Just DNS hosting, or are they hosting the mail servers and if so, what kind of mail servers - IMAP/POP3 or an Outlook service?

It's POP3 email

At present  ( ;D ) they do everything, email, website hosting, two broadband lines, domain name registration. They are outrageously expensive, but because they do all of this, changing requires quite a bit of effort, and I'm the worlds biggest procrastinator ( IE: lazy b****d).

Email is now back, about a couple of hours ago. So a whole week. But this has given me the kick up the arse I needed to start divorce proceedings, AND save some cash.