Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Henry Hubbard on 03 September 2013, 10:55:22
-
I recently had my Omega 2.6V6CDX serviced and the garage said that I was losing oil into the coolant, so that suggests a head gasket has gone. I was a little sceptical as I suspected the oil cooler. A few days later I had to use the car to go down the motorway so I drove gently (60mph on cruise control). I kept my eyes on the gauges for the first 10 miles but then I was distracted by the rush-hour traffic. At 20 miles the car lost power with the temperature gauge off the scale and the warning light flashing. Brown water was leaking all over the front of the engine and there was brown foam leaking from the header tank.
Having been towed home by the nice RAC man, I tried the car and it starts and runs fine with no lumpiness and no steam in the exhaust. It still seems to me like the oil cooler, rather than a head gasket but I don't understand why that would cause the car to overheat. I understand that oil is not as good a coolant as water but at 60mph I'd only be using 30bhp or so, and I'd have thought that the system could cope with that.
Any ideas? I think that a head gasket is not an economic repair as the car has done 147,000 miles and other parts might be about to fail.
-
When the cooler leaks oil in to the coolant it will foam and froth up and block the cooling fins on the rad causing the car to overheat. Relatively easy to did the oil cooler but a pain to clear the system of the oil deposits.
-
Its pretty much impossible for a failed headgasket to result in oil in the water, pretty bad diag by the mechanic.
When you consider that the oil system passing through the head gasket is only pressuried in one small place and surrounded by a copper O ring with some distance to the nearest water way, its just not happening. All other oil channels are return channels and therefore will be at below atmospheric pressure due to the breathers. Hence water in the oil - yes, oil in the water - no.
Oil cooler however sits in a bath of coolant and cools the oil on the high pressure side of the pump, here you can easily see how oil can get in the water during a failure.
-
Oil and water do not mix so well, thus would start blocking all the oilways. As it becomes sludgy, the water pump will become less effective.
That will take a shedload of flushing now, lets hope there is no damage due to overheating. Its likely you'll start seeing the rubber components start to soften as well :(
Hopefully this will be a lesson to other OOFers not to drive with failed/failing oil coolers :'(
-
If I had a fiver for every time Ive heard of a failed oil cooler misdiagnosed as head gasket failure................I would have nearly £60. ;D
As said,mechanic is talking out of his arris. Also,even when driven for a while after the oil has mixed with coolant it doesn't seem to do any long term damage once the cooler is replaced.
Of course if someone was to completely ignore the fault and warnings and carry on regardless,something would give at some point.No engine is indestructible. But these engines seem to be able to withstand a certain degree of abuse in that respect ime.
edit.Yes the flushing,lots of it. I can recommend from experience,to do it anywhere but your own drive. :-X ::)
And coolant pipes need an eye kept on them afterwards. Depending on budget constraints it might be worth just replacing the pipes.
-
And stop driving it until the jobs done, it's not too bad to do :y
-
Thanks guys, I'll see how much my local garage want to replace the oil cooler. It'll still be a few hours work, no doubt, but cheaper than getting a replacement car.
-
Thanks guys, I'll see how much my local garage want to replace the oil cooler. It'll still be a few hours work, no doubt, but cheaper than getting a replacement car.
If the garage said its head gasket, I'd seriously question their ability to change the oil cooler correctly. No doubt half way through try to convince you it is head gasket ::)
There are a few mobile mechanics here, who maybe able to do the job for you :y
-
Thanks guys, I'll see how much my local garage want to replace the oil cooler. It'll still be a few hours work, no doubt, but cheaper than getting a replacement car.
The actual job of changing the cooler is tiny (in hours) compared to flushing the oil out of the cooling system. When I did a mates it took nearly 2 weeks ... 14 odd flushes and each one took about an hour - hour and a half, each evening ... and that was using a low suds bio detergent his missus "acquired" from the hospital laundry .. so fairly powerful stuff !!
It is imperative you get all thew old crap out, as water and oil at high temps form a very thick sludge that will block your radiator/heater matrix and lead to more cooling problems if you don't get it cleaned well.
:(
Don't know if either of these can help ...Rob G is Bristol area , JamesV6CDX used to be gloucester based .. though god knows where he lays his head now .. more like a pikey than a pikey !!! ....
-
Yep,definitely try and use an OOF mechanic.Cheaper and much more competent than almost any garage. :y
The flushing required afterwards is a real pain in the arse,but theres no way round it im afraid.
-
Thanks guys, I'll see how much my local garage want to replace the oil cooler. It'll still be a few hours work, no doubt, but cheaper than getting a replacement car.
If the garage said its head gasket, I'd seriously question their ability to change the oil cooler correctly. No doubt half way through try to convince you it is head gasket ::)
There are a few mobile mechanics here, who maybe able to do the job for you :y
Last person I spoke to how had an Oil Cooler issue on his Mig V6 was quoted by the Garage to replace Pipes, seals and Radiator for the Auto Box. ::)
-
Thanks guys, I'll see how much my local garage want to replace the oil cooler. It'll still be a few hours work, no doubt, but cheaper than getting a replacement car.
The actual job of changing the cooler is tiny (in hours) compared to flushing the oil out of the cooling system. When I did a mates it took nearly 2 weeks ... 14 odd flushes and each one took about an hour - hour and a half, each evening ... and that was using a low suds bio detergent his missus "acquired" from the hospital laundry .. so fairly powerful stuff !!
It is imperative you get all thew old crap out, as water and oil at high temps form a very thick sludge that will block your radiator/heater matrix and lead to more cooling problems if you don't get it cleaned well.
:(
Don't know if either of these can help ...Rob G is Bristol area , JamesV6CDX used to be gloucester based .. though god knows where he lays his head now .. more like a pikey than a pikey !!! ....
Cheeky badger!!!
I live and work Bucks but Gloucestershire is 'home' and I come back a lot. If you can get the parts I'd be free to come fix it on Friday or Sunday probably cutting your garages rate in half :y
-
This all sounds so familiar, everything, except that I used the AA instead of RAC ;D
The people here will always say it is the oil cooler not the HG, probably correct. But you are there with a mechanic telling you it is the HG and you are not really experienced enough to argue sensibly.
Anyway, let's say he agrees that it is the cooler. Read the above and consider how much flushing and cleaning of pipes etc is needed.
I was faced with all this and scrapped a pretty good 2002 V6 CDX. But I use my car for work, I needed to get something sorted ASAP, fairly reliable, I don't do my own work, and I didn't have time for messing around.
-
Please don't scrap a good omega over an oil cooler
Oil in the coolant (brown goo) will NOT be head gasket :y
-
Thanks guys, I'll see how much my local garage want to replace the oil cooler. It'll still be a few hours work, no doubt, but cheaper than getting a replacement car.
If the garage said its head gasket, I'd seriously question their ability to change the oil cooler correctly. No doubt half way through try to convince you it is head gasket ::)
There are a few mobile mechanics here, who maybe able to do the job for you :y
Last person I spoke to how had an Oil Cooler issue on his Mig V6 was quoted by the Garage to replace Pipes, seals and Radiator for the Auto Box. ::)
I could understand replacing the radiator if it has been affected but that's just pure greed/incompetance*.
Delete as necessary
-
I can also understand changing all rubber hoses - too long in contact with oil/water mix and they will soften and leak. From experience on the old Elite Estate ;)
-
I'd use one of the OOF mechanics here, rather than a garage who thinks its a HG
-
Pm sent
-
Oil cooler replaced yesterday, Thanks JamesV6CDX.
Spent a few hours today flushing the system using gunk and then driveway cleaner. After that, there didn't seem to be much more crap coming out, so I've just filled the system with water for now and I will drive it for a day and see what comes out after that. I will get some more drive cleaner tomorrow and have another go.
It's quite a messy business but it is quite rewarding when you see a load of sludge come out.
The good news is that the car seems to drive fine, despite having overheated on the motorway at the start of this saga. I haven't used it properly yet though and I expect it will be some time before I am confident to storm down the motorway. Fingers crossed.
-
I have been getting more confident about my car in the last few days - I have filled it with proper coolant mix and the heater works very well, which I take to be a good sign of the system being pretty clean.
Today I took the car along a five miles of motorway followed by 10 miles of urban dual carriageway in the rush hour and then back again when the roads were clear at normal speed, so there was plenty of varied driving and good opportunities for the car to either overheat or for a hose to fail but I had no problems. The temperature varied between 85 and a little over 90 but I was watching it like a hawk. There is still a bit of a different smell to the car but it looks as if the car is back to working pretty well.
Now to sort out the leaking windscreen, the front discs that wobble under firm braking, the uneven tyre wear on the inside of the front tyres and the strange vibration that appears to come from the transmission!
-
sounds like the front discs are warped, easy job. uneven tyre wear, almost certainly camber setting is out. seems to me another chat with james v6cdx is in order, cant help much with the windscreen or transmission as never had the problem.
-
Bet the windscreen has been replaced with a non Vauxhall one like national windscreens or the like, I know of two done by them and both leaked on the drivers side (RH) corner. If not camber then front wishbone bush, i put poly bushes in mine, that stops them going again then get up to WIM and have it all set up. :y