Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: kcl on 09 September 2013, 08:51:32
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Have had this problem for a good while http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=85159.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=85159.0)
Now, when mornings are colder it is getting worse again. When warm nothing. And this stiff spot/blind spot is only when turning left.
To rule out more components I need to know more about how steering and PAS work. Is there any valves that could be sticking? Does servotronic relay know if I'm turning left or right or does it only know I turn?
I suspect steering box is faulty but what exactly could be broken in it? It behaves ok when warm. Fluid has been changed a few times with no luck (Dex II)
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Ok, mine being a MY2002 should be the later type and I need to source one of the later type OR take earlier WITH plumbing. Thanks. Will be chekcing/doing following things:
- oil change, DEX II
- check strut top bearings
- re-check all steering mechanics
If none of this helps will find a new pump.
How did these checks go?
IMO something is binding. It could be any of the moving parts in the steering. Jackin up on stands and moving the road wheels from underneath while feeling all the ball joints etc might narrow it down.
If that's all ok and another pump doesn't fix it, that only really leaves to box. Its not too bad a job on your engine, as the box will squeeze passed the coolant transfer pipe once a supporting nut is removed, along with the brake servo and all the stuff near the drivers wing.
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when mine played up-changed red relay behind glovebox :y
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Ok, mine being a MY2002 should be the later type and I need to source one of the later type OR take earlier WITH plumbing. Thanks. Will be chekcing/doing following things:
- oil change, DEX II
- check strut top bearings
- re-check all steering mechanics
If none of this helps will find a new pump.
How did these checks go?
IMO something is binding. It could be any of the moving parts in the steering. Jackin up on stands and moving the road wheels from underneath while feeling all the ball joints etc might narrow it down.
If that's all ok and another pump doesn't fix it, that only really leaves to box. Its not too bad a job on your engine, as the box will squeeze passed the coolant transfer pipe once a supporting nut is removed, along with the brake servo and all the stuff near the drivers wing.
Oil changed a few times with no significant luck
Shocks, strut bearings, tie rods, lower ball joints, all new
Geometry checked
Pump is not noisy, and as it assists ok to other direction I would rule that out
Wheels up and it disappears. So load is some how related.
Anyone got any spare relays to send me ::) Local scrappers usually do not have this relay or they try to rob me, 50 euros for 2nd hand relay is just too much... :y
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Pm RobG or Steve at Heathrow breakers http://www.omegaspareparts.com/ for servotronic relay. ? ? ? :)
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Ok, mine being a MY2002 should be the later type and I need to source one of the later type OR take earlier WITH plumbing. Thanks. Will be chekcing/doing following things:
- oil change, DEX II
- check strut top bearings
- re-check all steering mechanics
If none of this helps will find a new pump.
How did these checks go?
IMO something is binding. It could be any of the moving parts in the steering. Jackin up on stands and moving the road wheels from underneath while feeling all the ball joints etc might narrow it down.
If that's all ok and another pump doesn't fix it, that only really leaves to box. Its not too bad a job on your engine, as the box will squeeze passed the coolant transfer pipe once a supporting nut is removed, along with the brake servo and all the stuff near the drivers wing.
Did you strip down your old unit when you changed yours to have a look at the servotronic aspect ?
(remember a gauze filter and some kind of regulation plunger)
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Ok, mine being a MY2002 should be the later type and I need to source one of the later type OR take earlier WITH plumbing. Thanks. Will be chekcing/doing following things:
- oil change, DEX II
- check strut top bearings
- re-check all steering mechanics
If none of this helps will find a new pump.
How did these checks go?
IMO something is binding. It could be any of the moving parts in the steering. Jackin up on stands and moving the road wheels from underneath while feeling all the ball joints etc might narrow it down.
If that's all ok and another pump doesn't fix it, that only really leaves to box. Its not too bad a job on your engine, as the box will squeeze passed the coolant transfer pipe once a supporting nut is removed, along with the brake servo and all the stuff near the drivers wing.
Did you strip down your old unit when you changed yours to have a look at the servotronic aspect ?
(remember a gauze filter and some kind of regulation plunger)
No its on the bench awaiting "attention" though. Mwaaaahahahaaaa ;D
The plunger thing was the servo for servo tronic. With filter/gauze behind between it and the box. It was running stiff generally, and stiffer still through turning the wheel for a turn, and then be fine. There was a random element to it, but it wasn't the relay as I've had that fault.(which is like flicking a switch. Normal...... Stiff through all operations. Re start, normal again.)
Kcl has non of these, but something is locking in the box. Although I'm a little unsure what he means by a "dead" spot tbh.
Dead as in a stiff spot. Or dead as in a free spot....?
But the thing is its in the same place each time. So to me, if its stiff, something is binding. ...somewhere. But where?
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Dead as in stiff spot. So, when I turn the steering wheel to left it turns as it should, assisted. Then, all of a sudden, steering wheel feels like I've hit a wall, significantly more power is required to turn past that point. How can I describe it... Like rolling a wheel on the ground, goes easy as long as you hit a two-by-four block of wood, you need to push it over and after that it runs again. So, imho, something is binding or something is blocking the PAS fluid flow. All (well, most of) steering related joints are new, steering axle to steering wheel is not new, idler is not new but it is good.
And this stiff spot comes only when cold. Once warm (or even in warm weather) steering is like it is supposed to be through out the steering range, pump runs without noises. If it was pump it would be stiff to all directions. If it was box it would be stiff also when turning back over the "block of wood"- spot? If it was the relay it would be heavy all over? If it was the fluid, it would be heavy in bioth directions? But somehow temperature is related. And left-turn. These two are the only "reasons".
Getting sick of it, getting also used to it.
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Nothing fouling the wheel in the wheel arch area? Standard size wheels/bumpers/skirts?
Wheel central in the wheel arch for and aft?
...although I can't see why temp would affect these, and it would be audible. :(
:-\
Is there any noise when it happens...?
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This may sound strange,but have you had tracking checked recently?
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This may sound strange,but have you had tracking checked recently?
Full geometry check several times within past year, no help. No obstacles in wheel arches. Standard car all the way, want to keep it as it came out from Russelheim
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If revving the engine, and hence increasing pas pump output, makes no odds to the dead spot, and your confident its not a part of the steering suspension joints binding or seizing, I guess that only leaves the steering box, and servo.
Box will squeeze past the coolant transfer pipe if the ctp to head torx bolt is removed. So its not too bad a job on the 3.2. Guessing 2.6 is the same. But get a brake light switch in case/when it brakes on removal, if you do swap the box out.
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If revving the engine, and hence increasing pas pump output, makes no odds to the dead spot, and your confident its not a part of the steering suspension joints binding or seizing, I guess that only leaves the steering box, and servo.
Box will squeeze past the coolant transfer pipe if the ctp to head torx bolt is removed. So its not too bad a job on the 3.2. Guessing 2.6 is the same. But get a brake light switch in case/when it brakes on removal, if you do swap the box out.
box out excersice it is then... :y I think it is easier as I have the box on correct side of the car :D TIS says I need to take ac pipes off but people disagree this saying it will come off ac intact.
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The right side is just that kcl. ;) ;D
I bloody hope its fixes it though. Its a fair bit of work for no gain if not.
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The right side is just that kcl. ;) ;D
I bloody hope its fixes it though. Its a fair bit of work for no gain if not.
Fair bit of work, agreed, but nothing is as annoying than this. What component could be causing this binding to one side only? I slightly do suspect (or feel that as one possibility although very unlikely) the steering idler. But if it was the reason it would not act like this?
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The idler has a rubber sleave within it which wears and causes play vetically. There's nothing in there that could bind, no bearing or ball joint. However if it is worn, it could give some very odd sensation through the steering if its pulled one way then back the other.
But again, I can't see how temp could affect its play, although it does get hot as its right next to the pre cat on the exhaust.
Iirc there's a video of a failed idler in the maintenance guide.
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Did the pump ever get changed :-\
The thicker viscosity of the cold fluid could easily highlight an issue with the pump...(or the box for that matter).
Lhd box will be a shit to swap out... Abs pump, brake servo and the 246 exhaust is nearer the bulkhead. Alot of work if the pump hasn't been looked at first.
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Did the pump ever get changed :-\
The thicker viscosity of the cold fluid could easily highlight an issue with the pump...(or the box for that matter).
Lhd box will be a shit to swap out... Abs pump, brake servo and the 246 exhaust is nearer the bulkhead. Alot of work if the pump hasn't been looked at first.
Pump is not a suspect because it only pumps and does not know which direction I'm turning.
Just read this thread http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=117976.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=117976.0) and now I think I have found the fault; if ABS ECU or sensor (in my case one of the fronts?) for some reason loses speed signal the steering would go heavy? So, I'm now looking for a broken cable or changing one of the front sensors? Will try to connect my not-to-be-discussed-here- code reader and see live what it says (if I can replicate the situation where it goes heavy/stiff spot)
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An easy way to eliminate anything electrical is to remove the servotronic module and see if it still has tight spots. The steering will be heavier overall, of course.
This sounds like a repeat of Chrisgixer's steering box failure, to be honest.
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An easy way to eliminate anything electrical is to remove the servotronic module and see if it still has tight spots. The steering will be heavier overall, of course.
This sounds like a repeat of Chrisgixer's steering box failure, to be honest.
What's bothering me with this fault is the temp aspect.
Why would temp be relevant to such a clunky great lump like a steering box? :-\
The fault on mine was throughout steering movement for a turn. Left or right didn't matter. Usually slow speed between 10 and 20mph, with a generally less assisted feel to the steering at all times.
As it was most noticeable turning into my road, it was usually at the end of a journey, so all warmed up.
Another box sorted the randomness but I still feel something's not quite right, which I'm blaming on top mounts which I know to be slightly pitted, but don't know for sure.
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Temp aspect is also why I started to think about the ABS system; ABS ECU is in quite hot place. Will try to see if the plug is ok etc. Also have now sourced a "new" box which I will be changing any way (just for the fun of it! :D And I will be learning something also while doing it)
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The power steering pump and box are the only components involved that get hot, though. None of the suspension joints will behave any differently when the car is hot as their temperature doesn't appreciably change. PAS fluid will get less viscous when hot, pressure may drop off, clearances within the steering box will change, etc.
Given that we can easily eliminate any electrical influences (and with it the ABS ECU), that is what we'll be left with (assuming the problem is still there with the servotronic disabled).
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The power steering pump and box are the only components involved that get hot, though. None of the suspension joints will behave any differently when the car is hot as their temperature doesn't appreciably change. PAS fluid will get less viscous when hot, pressure may drop off, clearances within the steering box will change, etc.
Given that we can easily eliminate any electrical influences (and with it the ABS ECU), that is what we'll be left with (assuming the problem is still there with the servotronic disabled).
You mean by pulling the ABS fuse and try it then?
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The power steering pump and box are the only components involved that get hot, though. None of the suspension joints will behave any differently when the car is hot as their temperature doesn't appreciably change. PAS fluid will get less viscous when hot, pressure may drop off, clearances within the steering box will change, etc.
Given that we can easily eliminate any electrical influences (and with it the ABS ECU), that is what we'll be left with (assuming the problem is still there with the servotronic disabled).
You mean by pulling the ABS fuse and try it then?
Could do, but I was thinking of just pulling out the servotronic module.