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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 27 May 2008, 22:09:16

Title: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 May 2008, 22:09:16
Pressure is low - 0.2 bar

Hot water is fine - central heating won't work. low pressure light is on.

Other, maybe related symptom, arrived home from 2 days away to find all 3 gerbils dead, they all had food and water and were healthy prior to departure.

Possible gas leak? Can't smell anything...

I know nothing, so opinions welcome :y
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: dbug on 27 May 2008, 22:10:57
Doesn't sound good - get an expert to check it out asap :o
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Vamps on 27 May 2008, 22:11:07
Quote
Pressure is low - 0.2 bar

Hot water is fine - central heating won't work. low pressure light is on.

Other, maybe related symptom, arrived home from 2 days away to find all 3 gerbils dead, they all had food and water and were healthy prior to departure.

Possible gas leak? Can't smell anything...

I know nothing, so opinions welcome :y

Call the Gas board NOW :exclamation :exclamation :exclamation

Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: LJay on 27 May 2008, 22:12:55
sounds suspiciously like carbon monoxide issue. would maybe switch off and call in an expert!

what a crap week your having James :(
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: TheBoy on 27 May 2008, 22:14:15
remember carbon monoxide has no smell....   ...if you are not 100% confident in a repair, and it sounds like you're not, switch it off and get the experts in...
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 May 2008, 22:14:40
Is there any sign of water leakage?

The pressure is the water pressure, so not related to the gas side. There should be a filling loop somewhere - basically a flexible pipe with a valve at each end which connects the heating system to the mains water for filling purposes.

To correct the low pressure, open the valves on the filling loop, allow the pressure to reach the normal operating pressure (typically 1.5 - 2 BAR - is there a red marker pointer on the pressure gauge?) then close the valves and see if it works.

Sorry about the gerbils :'( I can't really see how it could be related but might be worth making sure the place is well ventilated when using the boiler and getting a carbon monoxide alarm.

Kevin
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Martin_1962 on 27 May 2008, 22:16:32
Dead gerbils are the worry, are you up for a fiddle first?

Take off the cover and check for soot. See if any foreign objects in there.

If not - call an engineer.

Is hot water on an immersion heater?

ANy water leaks

Has a radiator popped.

Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: tunnie on 27 May 2008, 22:16:44
Quote
remember carbon monoxide has no smell....   ...if you are not 100% confident in a repair, and it sounds like you're not, switch it off and get the experts in...

Could not agree more.

Like brakes on a car, boilers & gas is not one area to penny pinch.

I know you have work problems at the moment, but you must get this looked at.

Get someone you can trust in, get references!

Do you have british gas home plan thingy? If not still try and get them in, they won't be cheap, but we have found them excellent in our experiance.
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: waspy on 27 May 2008, 22:16:47
Quote
remember carbon monoxide has no smell....   ...if you are not 100% confident in a repair, and it sounds like you're not, switch it off and get the experts in...

James. Don't take any chances bod, it's not worth it  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 May 2008, 22:18:57
I'm not suggesting we will take chances - if there's a prob, it will be looked at by experts - ;)
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: VXL V6 on 27 May 2008, 22:19:05
Quote
Is there any sign of water leakage?

The pressure is the water pressure, so not related to the gas side. There should be a filling loop somewhere - basically a flexible pipe with a valve at each end which connects the heating system to the mains water for filling purposes.

To correct the low pressure, open the valves on the filling loop, allow the pressure to reach the normal operating pressure (typically 1.5 - 2 BAR - is there a red marker pointer on the pressure gauge?) then close the valves and see if it works.

Sorry about the gerbils :'( I can't really see how it could be related but might be worth making sure the place is well ventilated when using the boiler and getting a carbon monoxide alarm.

Kevin

Agreed, used to have that problem when I had a weeping radiator, once the water pressure in the radiator loop system drops the boiler will not switch over.
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: TheBoy on 27 May 2008, 22:19:50
Quote
Is there any sign of water leakage?

The pressure is the water pressure, so not related to the gas side. There should be a filling loop somewhere - basically a flexible pipe with a valve at each end which connects the heating system to the mains water for filling purposes.

To correct the low pressure, open the valves on the filling loop, allow the pressure to reach the normal operating pressure (typically 1.5 - 2 BAR - is there a red marker pointer on the pressure gauge?) then close the valves and see if it works.

Sorry about the gerbils :'( I can't really see how it could be related but might be worth making sure the place is well ventilated when using the boiler and getting a carbon monoxide alarm.

Kevin
Agree the low pressure is not gas related, but 3 dead gerbils highlights an issue somewhere.

A CO detector is a good idea
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Martin_1962 on 27 May 2008, 22:23:45
What bothers me is both CO and low pressure at same time.

Combis are usually sealed and should not leak into the house.

Water - has to be a leak somewhere could be as simple as a loose bleed valve.

What I am suggesting is look for the obvious first, before an engineer.
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 May 2008, 22:33:00
Quote
I'm not suggesting we will take chances - if there's a prob, it will be looked at by experts - ;)

Agreed - but you can put some water pressure in there and see if anything obvious happens. A bit of diagnosis and going armed with a few ideas will save you a fortune when you get someone in - because if you appear clueless they will spend ages doing unrelated stuff at 50 quid per half hour. Just like when you take your car to a main dealer. Been there, done that. >:(

Look for signs of leakage. Anything under the boiler or any of the rads? Next, there should be a pressure relief valve that discharges excess pressure outside the house. Go and look at the outlet and see if it's got wet.

Then put a bit of pressure in the system and see if there's leakage from somewhere. Could be a number of issues:

Catastrophic failure of the heat exchanger in the boiler - odd that it works on hot water though.
Leakage from a rad or something else in the system.
Leakage from the pressure relief valve
Failure of the boiler thermostat so the water has boiled, overpressurised and forced its' way out of the relief valve.

Is the boiler a room sealed type with a fan assised flue? If so, the boiler should be contained in a sealed box that can't let CO out into the house. There would have to be obvious leakage or damage to the case  for this to happen.

If it's not room sealed, it relies on airflow through the flue or up the chimney by convection, and a blockage could cause it to vent into the room. In this case, get a technician in to check the flue. They will normally do this by lighting a pellet of smoke generating material by the burner and making sure the flue carries it all away outside the house.

Just a few pointers, so when you get told the equivalent of "head gasket, mate" you are pre-armed!

As others have said, CO is deadly, so don't run the boiler without ventilating the place or when anyone's asleep until it has been checked.

Kevin
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Nickbat on 27 May 2008, 22:39:31
James,

PM Boiler Man. He was last online on 21st May, but I'm not sure he visits that often.

However, this is very disturbing. It may be nothing, but you have to accept the possibility that the gerbils succumbed to CO poisoning. My strong advice is DO NOT USE the boiler at all until it has been checked. In the meantime, use a kettle for hot water. Remember that CO is completely odourless and the only warning of impending poisoning (and death) is feeling sleepy/lethargic.

I would not underestimate the potential seriousness of this fault.

Nick
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 May 2008, 22:41:32
Should have mentioned, if the boiler is not room sealed there should be an air brick or similar to provide ventilation to the room in which it is installed. Check this is clear.

Martin is right though. Most combis are new enough to be room sealed, so it's very odd if it's leaked CO. Normally the whole boiler is at a negative pressure relative to the room, with interlocks to ensure it won't light unless this condition is established, and the only part that has CO under positive pressure is the centre section of the flue, which can only leak into the incoming air to the burner.

Is the property rented? If so, don't mess about. Start making noises about dodgy gas installations and the letting agents will be round in a flash. Gas installations in rental properties must be strictly maintained by law.

Kevin
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: TheBoy on 27 May 2008, 22:42:13
Quote
James,

PM Boiler Man. He was last online on 21st May, but I'm not sure he visits that often.

However, this is very disturbing. It may be nothing, but you have to accept the possibility that the gerbils succumbed to CO poisoning. My strong advice is DO NOT USE the boiler at all until it has been checked. In the meantime, use a kettle for hot water. Remember that CO is completely odourless and the only warning of impending poisoning (and death) is feeling sleepy/lethargic.

I would not underestimate the potential seriousness of this fault.

Nick
 
James is young, thats just normality ;D

Sorry, its a serious subject.  As a minimum, get a CO detector, and do not have boiler on without huge ventilation, or if people are sleeping, or even feeling drowsy.
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 May 2008, 22:43:29
Quote
James,
However, this is very disturbing. It may be nothing, but you have to accept the possibility that the gerbils succumbed to CO poisoning. My strong advice is DO NOT USE the boiler at all until it has been checked. In the meantime, use a kettle for hot water. Remember that CO is completely odourless and the only warning of impending poisoning (and death) is feeling sleepy/lethargic.
 

Something James has mentioned in the past. IIRC :o

Kevin
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Vamps on 27 May 2008, 22:48:43
Quote
Quote
James,
However, this is very disturbing. It may be nothing, but you have to accept the possibility that the gerbils succumbed to CO poisoning. My strong advice is DO NOT USE the boiler at all until it has been checked. In the meantime, use a kettle for hot water. Remember that CO is completely odourless and the only warning of impending poisoning (and death) is feeling sleepy/lethargic.
 

Something James has mentioned in the past. IIRC :o

Kevin

swmbo and myself were wondering if we had a Co2 problem a while ago, got a detector / alarm......result, it must be us. :o :o :o
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: maria on 27 May 2008, 22:50:30
AS its my house and its private rented i shall ring first thing in the morning and get it sorted out i should of mentioned it today as i  had to ring  my landlord about some one trying to break in my house by them trying to break my front porchway door lock with a screwdriver so i had the police out when i got home on sunday  but the good news is that they did'nt get in  so me and james are not having any luck and my 12yr daughter was so upset when she found her gerbils all dead in there cages and she tryed to get them to wake up it was so upsetting seeing hannah doing that !
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Vamps on 27 May 2008, 22:53:41
Quote
AS its my house and its private rented i shall ring first thing in the morning and get it sorted out i should of mentioned it today as i  had to ring  my landlord about some one trying to break in my house by them trying to break my front porchway door lock with a screwdriver so i had the police out when i got home on sunday  but the good new is that they did'nt get in  so me and james are not having any luck and my 12yr daughter was so upset when she found her gerbils all dead in there cages and she tryed to get them to wake up it was so upsetting seeing hannah doing that !

Now that must be hard, we will have it one day, so far costing me a fortune on the cat to put it off as much as possible.
My daughter is only 7, should have seen her when a fish died. :exclamation
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 27 May 2008, 23:01:49
Quote
AS its my house and its private rented i shall ring first thing in the morning and get it sorted out i should of mentioned it today as i  had to ring  my landlord about some one trying to break in my house by them trying to break my front porchway door lock with a screwdriver so i had the police out when i got home on sunday  but the good news is that they did'nt get in  so me and james are not having any luck and my 12yr daughter was so upset when she found her gerbils all dead in there cages and she tryed to get them to wake up it was so upsetting seeing hannah doing that !

Try saying all of that without pausing for breath!!

Punctuation, Maria ;) ;D
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: Kevin Wood on 27 May 2008, 23:01:57
Quote
AS its my house and its private rented i shall ring first thing in the morning and get it sorted out i should of mentioned it today as i  had to ring  my landlord about some one trying to break in my house by them trying to break my front porchway door lock with a screwdriver so i had the police out when i got home on sunday  but the good news is that they did'nt get in  so me and james are not having any luck and my 12yr daughter was so upset when she found her gerbils all dead in there cages and she tryed to get them to wake up it was so upsetting seeing hannah doing that !

It's a no brainer then. Explain what has happened and they'll sort it at the landlord's expense.

Kevin
Title: Re: Combi Boiler Problem
Post by: maria on 27 May 2008, 23:05:59
I now how it feels when animals die when they get old but to die like hannahs did it's far more upsetting not knowing how they died and i must addmit that i was upset too and i am still puzzled to how they died!