Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Dangerous Dan on 27 May 2008, 16:49:45
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Afternoon guys,
My brother purchased a Rover 214 about 6weeks ago from an advertising trader down in Milton Keynes. This week the head gasket went and it's a write off.
Does he have any legal comeback?
The guy runs a motor trading company, is their laws behind what they buy and sell etc? surely there must be....
Thanks
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Afternoon guys,
My brother purchased a Rover 214 about 6weeks ago from an advertising trader down in Milton Keynes. This week the head gasket went and it's a write off.
Does he have any legal comeback?
The guy runs a motor trading company, is their laws behind what they buy and sell etc? surely there must be....
Thanks
Why is it a write off?
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50 quid for gaskets and bolts, 30 quid to get the head skimmed, worth regrinding the valves while youre at it so another fiver for the paste.
I did the same job last year, it was the easiest HG I have ever done! :y
If you want a book of lies Haynes Manual I have a used one going spare
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The K series is prone to head gaskets failing. I think you've got no real come-back unless the trader misrepresented the car for sale. He's not obliged to give any warranty and it could be agrued that the fault was no present when the car was sold. :-/
It shouldn't be a write off though?
Kevin
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I've not seen the car, he took it to a friend of his who wanted £550 to replace head gasket, car only worth about £600 tops so not worth it on those numbers...
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My wife has a 416 which the HG went on back in Jan, I got the gaskets on e-bay £35 got some head bolts £20 and the local mechanic sorted it for us for £200 all in all including a few other jobs (MOT) came to £500 we had only paid ?£165 for the car but now she has a car that should last her years.
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What !!!, some friend, local garage max charge £150 including head skim, tell him to shop around.
regards
richard a
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I've not seen the car, he took it to a friend of his who wanted £550 to replace head gasket, car only worth about £600 tops so not worth it on those numbers...
The K series engine in all it's guises is prone to CHG failure . There is no permanent remedy although fitting the later MLS headgasket, steel locating dowels,replacing the thermostat with the current grey item and then repositioning the thermostat housing helps considerably.
Some also suggest new oil rail and bolts but these aren't obligatory.
Regarding the quote of £550 thats a reasonable price providing that No 1 piston hasn't melted as is common.
Just google K series and you'll see the horror stories that abound on these engines.
I speak as an owner of a K series engined Freelander. I wanted to replace the CHG prior to it occuring to ensure the car was up to the current spec of engine mods and was quoted the equivelent of £1900 sterling. Most garages either price it high to avoid doing the job or cover their asses by again pricing for returns.
I tried to PX mine but NO dealer will touch a car with these engines down here. :(
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As you say its a 214, I am guessing but these finished a good few years ago, its all down to what you could reasonably expect from a car of that age, mileage and price. Ask the trader to make a contribution, you pay for parts, he pays for labour or something simple. £600 is a lot if it is your last £600, but nowadays it's mountain bike money. The only Rovers worth having are those with Honda engines or any of the diesels.
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I did my mates 214 a couple of weeks ago, I felt guilty takng £50 quid off him but he insisted. That plus £60 for the bits - have a crack yourself :y
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Dont you get a 3 month warranty if bought from a dealer?
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Anyone with a K series (esp the 1.4 and 1.8 variants - oddly 1.6 appears better for some reason) will be used to HG failures.
Mrs TheBoy's HG was done by JamesV6CDX and I last year, we went overboard, doing cambelt kit, pump, stats etc etc whilst we had it stripped down (it had down 72k), cost just under £300 for all the bits (later Ks as fitted to Rover 25s seem to have more expensive parts :()
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Anyone with a K series (esp the 1.4 and 1.8 variants - oddly 1.6 appears better for some reason) will be used to HG failures.
Mrs TheBoy's HG was done by JamesV6CDX and I last year, we went overboard, doing cambelt kit, pump, stats etc etc whilst we had it stripped down (it had down 72k), cost just under £300 for all the bits (later Ks as fitted to Rover 25s seem to have more expensive parts :()
The 2.5 KV6 is good though, dont you think Jaime? ;)
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If the seller didn't offer a warranty, I'd just take it on the chin and consider it lesson learnt. You can fix this in an easy weekends tinkering for £50.
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KV6 - >:( mine lasted 8 weeks
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Anyone with a K series (esp the 1.4 and 1.8 variants - oddly 1.6 appears better for some reason) will be used to HG failures.
Mrs TheBoy's HG was done by JamesV6CDX and I last year, we went overboard, doing cambelt kit, pump, stats etc etc whilst we had it stripped down (it had down 72k), cost just under £300 for all the bits (later Ks as fitted to Rover 25s seem to have more expensive parts :()
The 2.5 KV6 is good though, dont you think Jaime? ;)
Sadly, double the chance of failure ;)
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KV6 - >:( mine lasted 8 weeks
Mine sang beautifully for seven years..I traded it last week. Rub of the green :-/
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A car for sale on a forecourt, technically, requires to be completely road legal. Not sufficient to sat that a bald tyre will be changed on sale or whatever required for MOT pass will be done....
Sadly, state of the engine does not come into that equation....
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I've not seen the car, he took it to a friend of his who wanted £550 to replace head gasket, car only worth about £600 tops so not worth it on those numbers...
So, you could scrap it and go and spend the 600 quid on another one which may have a host of unknown problems, or you could fix it (could be done for less than that by a long way) and you've got the confidence that at least the engine won't give you any more trouble for another 100k (the 1.4 isn't as bad as the larger K's).
There comes a time when it makes no sense to sink more money into a car, but if this were the only serious problem, I'd be fixing it. Any car for 600 quid will need a bit of TLC.
Kevin
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Dont you get a 3 month warranty if bought from a dealer?
As a dealer I can say that the only warranty worth having is the manufacturers own when the car is new, even these are subject to all sorts of conditions. Dan did not say how old the car is, I am guessing at a 1999 T reg or around then, that makes the car 9 years old. What can you reasonably expect from a product of that age? It ran for 6 weeks so the dealer could not have known that it would fail. On cars over 8 years old, or over 100,000 miles or which cost less than £1200 we give no mechanical warranty at all, however the car must be roadworthy and comply with the MOT regulations. At that sort of money you pays your money and takes your chances. The aftermarket 3 month warranties are not usually worth the paper they are printed on, in fact they are no longer called warranties, they are now Mechanical Breakdown Insurances. To make a successful claim on one of these takes some doing. My advice would be to get the job done as the car is worthless if it is not running, get some use out of it and get rid of it.
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I've not seen the car, he took it to a friend of his who wanted £550 to replace head gasket, car only worth about £600 tops so not worth it on those numbers...
The K series engine in all it's guises is prone to CHG failure .
I believe the early 1.4 k's (square shape cars) are wet rather than damp linered (if I remember what my mechanic was blabbing on about!) and aren't anywhere near so prone. We've got a k-reg on 125k with its original *touch wood!* HG but my dad had a 2001 25 which suffered 2 HGF's; the first at 35k!
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all motor traders have to comply with trading standards which say they have to provide a warrenty with any car that is bought and sold through them.
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all motor traders have to comply with trading standards which say they have to provide a warrenty with any car that is bought and sold through them.
So if I buy a fiesta from a dealer for £100, have I got valid recourse if two weeks later it throws a conrod through the block?
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all motor traders have to comply with trading standards which say they have to provide a warrenty with any car that is bought and sold through them.
So if I buy a fiesta from a dealer for £100, have I got valid recourse if two weeks later it throws a conrod through the block?
.. and they do. Happened to Mrs. KW. ::)
No breather is big enough to stop a HCS turning its' oil manky and self-destructing.
Kevin
Kevin
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all motor traders have to comply with trading standards which say they have to provide a warrenty with any car that is bought and sold through them.
By 'providing' I think (but not 100%) that means that one is available at extra cost. If you decide not to purchase one, you don't have one. If it then throws a conrod, buy a brush and shovel and a large bag of cat litter......
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I've not seen the car, he took it to a friend of his who wanted £550 to replace head gasket, car only worth about £600 tops so not worth it on those numbers...
£550 :o lucky he didn't take it to someone who doesn't much care for him.
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I'll echo the other comments here. The k series hg failing is common, but a really easy job! They were bread and butter money in the garage where i worked!
Change the thermostat at the same time just in case. :y
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all motor traders have to comply with trading standards which say they have to provide a warrenty with any car that is bought and sold through them.
The word is reasonable. Most trading standards people are reasonable themselves, we have had 1 visit in 8 years, and that was to see if we were still trading. If you bought a 9 year old kettle would you expect a warranty? If you bought a second hand double glazed window unit for £100, that had previously been fitted, would you expect a warranty? The answer is of course no. I am not trying to defend those traders out there who deliberately sell faulty goods, but there has to be a limit. As Dan said the car ran for 6 weeks so the trader could not have forseen the problems. If you hired a car for 6 weeks what would it cost? I have been very unlucky with cars, I bought a 2000 Golf from auction 3 weeks ago, 56000 miles, 2 owners, FSH, paid good money, transported it home with the others I bought at a great cost, it is now in another auction as it only had 2 gears out of 5 and no reverse. Even those of us who buy and sell for a living get it wrong sometimes. Even if you are buying new or nearly new problems can still arise. The older or more miles on a car increases the chances of mechanical bother. As long as the trader did not misdescribe the car Dan's pal has very little comeback, probably none at all.
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From my own experience years ago with a Afrur Daley type cars are bought as seen. Even with a limited warranty they still have the get out of wear & tear. Unfortunately its buyer beware. Even trading standards told me this.
As the others suggested shop about.
Jez
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Sold as seen is not a legal loop hole for geting out of refunding or repairing the vehicle by a dealer.
A friend was sold a dodgy motor,had lots of probs.went to the dealer told him of problems,he said hard luck missus "sold as seen".She went to trading standards who recommended a garage to lk it over.The garage would not allw her to drive it.It hadshot brakes ,been shunted up the rear basically it was a death trap.TS advised her of the legal process.
She too k out a civil actionshe was told exactly what to do and howto proceed.
Various letters sent to dealer all ignored.
Anyhoo,it ended in court,the dealer actually turned up!!!and he ended up paying court fees and reimbursing the womens money.
So basically sold as seen don't hold s**t and people should not be put off persuing a claim when they are told this.
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I bought a Ford Probe :-[ from a dealer in Leeds about 2 years ago. It lasted about 20 miles on the motorway before the engine seized solid. I tried for months to get my money back and the dealer just point blank refused.
I thought about small claims court but the car only cost £900 and I didn't fancy my chances of getting anything back so just worte it off to experience and bought an Omega instead!! :y
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Sold as seen is not a legal loop hole for geting out of refunding or repairing the vehicle by a dealer.
A friend was sold a dodgy motor,had lots of probs.went to the dealer told him of problems,he said hard luck missus "sold as seen".She went to trading standards who recommended a garage to lk it over.The garage would not allw her to drive it.It hadshot brakes ,been shunted up the rear basically it was a death trap.TS advised her of the legal process.
She too k out a civil actionshe was told exactly what to do and howto proceed.
Various letters sent to dealer all ignored.
Anyhoo,it ended in court,the dealer actually turned up!!!and he ended up paying court fees and reimbursing the womens money.
So basically sold as seen don't hold s**t and people should not be put off persuing a claim when they are told this.
The faults with the car you describe are roadworthiness issues and you are right, however a head gasket failing after 6 weeks is nothing to do with roadworthiness. Unless the dealer sold the car for spares or repair and advised that it should be removed by trailer then it has to comply with the road traffic act in order for the buyer to drive it away. I say for the third time that the goods must be in reasonable order taking into account age, mileage etc. Sold as seen is a term used mainly when dealers trade between themselves, or when buying at an auction. It is very different when selling to the public. However, everybody wants cars as cheap as they can, this leads to loss of profit and therefore you can't expect to get something for nothing. There are so many variables it is often impossible to get to the bottom of car related matters. Even taking an experienced mechanic along would not have helped Dan's friend as the car was OK for 6 weeks. It is a case of bad luck, something which we all get from time to time.