Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: dubiez on 29 October 2013, 21:48:00
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I decided last week-end to tackle the cambelt change on my Omega Elite estate (3.0 X30XE).
I got the locking tool hired from autovaux for a small fee with the purchase of an SKF timig belt kit (VKMA05501) and water pump.
I follow the DVD all the way and everything is going well (having a spare TV in the garage helps).
I lock all the cams, remove the original belt, change the plate that has 2 pulleys on it, change the water pump, and when I go to put my shiny new belt, I realise I can't align the markings on the belt with cams 3 and 4 (they are 5-6 teeth out) .
Looking at that new belt, it wears the number 05500, which is the belt that goes with the early engine kit (same number of teeth though).
I call autovaux to complain I've got the wrong belt supplied with the kit and they say that since the belts have the same number of teeth, SKF does not bother making 2 different ones for each kit. They offer to send me free of charge a genuine GM belt they have in stock.
I get home tonight, open the parcel and the genuine belt is for an early engine, the markings are identical to the SKF belt :'(
Now, can I get a belt for a late engine with the right markings on it (e.g. from Vauxhall)?
Is there any way I can fit the belt ignoring the markings?
Any help appreciated, I'm getting desperate.
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Its been a veryyyy long time since I last did one, but I'm due to do mine shortly.
I can't remember the DVD, but as long as the centre marking lines up at the bottom of the crank, then I'm not convinced that the other markings all line up anyway.
Some of the experts will advise better, but at the end of the day you have already lined up and secured the cams in place.
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Any help appreciated, I'm getting desperate.
Forget the marks on the belt, you have a timing kit, use that to time it. :y :y
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Any help appreciated, I'm getting desperate.
Forget the marks on the belt, you have a timing kit, use that to time it. :y :y
+1 :y
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I think the V6s started off with printed markings on the belt but they were dropped for later engines.
Different idlers on later engines mean that the printed markings won't make sense so ignore them.
The key thing is to get the markings on the pulleys to line up with the markings on the alignment tool with the crank locked at TDC.
Check & re-check before removing the crank lock then winding the crank two turns clockwise before checking again.
If not spot on then adjust and repeat.
Finally wind the crank another 2 turns and check again.
If you are not confident that it is 'right' then don't be too proud to ask again :y
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It's my first time belt ever so a bit nervous to get it wrong.
I'll give it a go tomorrow ignoring the markings.
I may need some more advice, so watch this space.
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The Belt marks are just one more worry you don't need. Waste of time, just use the kit as said. :)
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:y :y
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And make sure you turn the engine through 760 degrees before you fire it up,just to make sure something isnt going to touch something else. That way the worst that can happen is it wont run properly. ;)
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And make sure you turn the engine through 760 degrees before you fire it up,just to make sure something isnt going to touch something else. That way the worst that can happen is it wont run properly. ;)
or 720 ..... ::)
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Im on nightshift,I was tired.Far cough. :P ;D ;D
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As others say, ignore the markings, just fit. Only marking to note is the direction arrows, which should be clockwise.
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all engines use the same belt as far as I know.. and if markings correctly positioned , they come to correct position after 2 turns.. :-\
ps: Fit the cambelt so that the DOUBLE white line is aligned to the crankshaft
notch at 6.0 clock
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all engines use the same belt as far as I know.. and if markings correctly positioned , they come to correct position after 2 turns.. :-\
ps: Fit the cambelt so that the DOUBLE white line is aligned to the crankshaft
notch at 6.0 clock
nope
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all engines use the same belt as far as I know.. and if markings correctly positioned , they come to correct position after 2 turns.. :-\
ps: Fit the cambelt so that the DOUBLE white line is aligned to the crankshaft
notch at 6.0 clock
nope
yep.. old age .. this is the correct sentence
tensioner set to the top quadrant should come down to the centre mark once the crank is turned 2 revs..
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all engines use the same belt as far as I know.. and if markings correctly positioned , they come to correct position after 2 turns.. :-\
ps: Fit the cambelt so that the DOUBLE white line is aligned to the crankshaft
notch at 6.0 clock
nope
yep.. old age .. this is the correct sentence
tensioner set to the top quadrant should come down to the centre mark once the crank is turned 2 revs..
nope ;D
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all engines use the same belt as far as I know.. and if markings correctly positioned , they come to correct position after 2 turns.. :-\
ps: Fit the cambelt so that the DOUBLE white line is aligned to the crankshaft
notch at 6.0 clock
nope
yep.. old age .. this is the correct sentence
tensioner set to the top quadrant should come down to the centre mark once the crank is turned 2 revs..
nope ;D
nope. this is correct ;D its from the notes of a vx factory worker. and I have experienced it.. not that much alzheimer ;D
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all engines use the same belt as far as I know.. and if markings correctly positioned , they come to correct position after 2 turns.. :-\
ps: Fit the cambelt so that the DOUBLE white line is aligned to the crankshaft
notch at 6.0 clock
nope
yep.. old age .. this is the correct sentence
tensioner set to the top quadrant should come down to the centre mark once the crank is turned 2 revs..
nope ;D
nope. this is correct ;D
I don't know how many V6 omega cam belts you've ACTUALLY changed, but I can assure you that once the crank is rotated the lines mean nothing, the only way is to use the correct timing kit.
There is a wealth of experience on this forum who have, between them done a few hundred belts... so why do you insist on arguing with folks just for the sake of it ???
It is becoming boring
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here are the notes ::)
"I. You should have the sparkplugs fitted when you fit the belt otherwise you will not be able to set the tension correctly!!!!
2. The top roller you show with the grease leaking out of it - needs changing thats the fail mode - very rare to see a belt on the V6 go - its always the rollers first!!!
3. The proper tool set (kent moore) has a timing gauge that goes onto the cam gears to set them correctly
4. If you set the rollers up correctly - you get the timing set first time
Top roller - set to 12 o clock to put belt on then set to just before 9 oclock
bottom roller - set to 3 o clock to put belt on set to around 12 0 clock - nip up just as the cam gear starts to move.
tensioner set to the top quadrant (as in pic) should come down to the centre mark once the crank is turned 2 revs - over tension will reduce the life of the rollers!!!"
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That last bit is misleading - it will eventually fall to the mid marker after a few hundred/thousand miles, but most certainly not after 2 turns.
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That last bit is misleading - it will eventually fall to the mid marker after a few hundred/thousand miles, but most certainly not after 2 turns.
I have seen that happen.. (tensioner marker positioning)
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Well, belt is on on and all the timing adjusted.
I must have done 20 cam revolutions and adjustments to get it right but I got there in the end ::)
Not having markings on the belt makes it a bit more tricky though, after I first fitted the belt, I starting rotating the crank and the belt jumped off it :o
Cams did not move at all at that point so I was able to rotate the crank counter clockwise to come back to TDC (not sure you're supposed to do that but I'd done maybe 1/8th of a turn on the crank).
The other tricky bit is setting the timing with the rollers, you need a 30mm spanner and I didn't have one, I managed to get one from my local parts shop but they did not have one that was offset enough so it would fit snug onto the nut. It turned into a 2 man job, with one holding the spanner and the other torquing the centre bolt.
To settle the argument between cem and theboy, the tensioner does not come down to the centre mark after 2 crank revs, it comes back to exactly where it was set (top quadrant for a new belt).
I just need to finish the job now, change the cam cover gasket and put it all back together, turn the key and marvel at the fact I have saved myself >£400, or cry as my engine explodes and I've wasted £150 and 2 days of my life ;D
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correctly setting the tensioner is not an easy job.. I have seen many mechanics fail in that resulting tensioner failure .. :-\
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Well, belt is on on and all the timing adjusted.
I must have done 20 cam revolutions and adjustments to get it right but I got there in the end ::)
Not having markings on the belt makes it a bit more tricky though, after I first fitted the belt, I starting rotating the crank and the belt jumped off it :o
Cams did not move at all at that point so I was able to rotate the crank counter clockwise to come back to TDC (not sure you're supposed to do that but I'd done maybe 1/8th of a turn on the crank).
The other tricky bit is setting the timing with the rollers, you need a 30mm spanner and I didn't have one, I managed to get one from my local parts shop but they did not have one that was offset enough so it would fit snug onto the nut. It turned into a 2 man job, with one holding the spanner and the other torquing the centre bolt.
To settle the argument between cem and theboy, the tensioner does not come down to the centre mark after 2 crank revs, it comes back to exactly where it was set (top quadrant for a new belt).
I just need to finish the job now, change the cam cover gasket and put it all back together, turn the key and marvel at the fact I have saved myself >£400, or cry as my engine explodes and I've wasted £150 and 2 days of my life ;D
Sounds like you've got there in the end :y
My first attempt was as traumatic, but the issues are forgotten when you first fire it up :y
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Had a nightmare the first time it changed my cam belt (before I knew about oof). When I set the timing marks the marks on the belt where all lined up on the cams too. Imagine my dismay and panic when I rotated the engine after fitting the new belt to find the belts marks a few teeth out!!! After removing checking and refitting a few times the internet was consulted, which is when I found oof. I remember then saying why on earth put marks on the belt, I know I was unlucky that when I took mine apart the marks just happened to be lined up, but they really didn't help.
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Well, belt is on on and all the timing adjusted.
I must have done 20 cam revolutions and adjustments to get it right but I got there in the end ::)
Not having markings on the belt makes it a bit more tricky though, after I first fitted the belt, I starting rotating the crank and the belt jumped off it :o
Cams did not move at all at that point so I was able to rotate the crank counter clockwise to come back to TDC (not sure you're supposed to do that but I'd done maybe 1/8th of a turn on the crank).
The other tricky bit is setting the timing with the rollers, you need a 30mm spanner and I didn't have one, I managed to get one from my local parts shop but they did not have one that was offset enough so it would fit snug onto the nut. It turned into a 2 man job, with one holding the spanner and the other torquing the centre bolt.
To settle the argument between cem and theboy, the tensioner does not come down to the centre mark after 2 crank revs, it comes back to exactly where it was set (top quadrant for a new belt).
I just need to finish the job now, change the cam cover gasket and put it all back together, turn the key and marvel at the fact I have saved myself >£400, or cry as my engine explodes and I've wasted £150 and 2 days of my life ;D
Done a few V6 cambelt kits now and agree that if tensioner set as recommended (top quadrant), it stays there even if crank rotated quite a few times (had one where setting timing took a while!)
Also confirm that I checked one that I'd done around 20K later (needed to change water pump so took the opportunity whilst stripped), and timing was still spot on and tensioner mark was at centre ;)
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Tensioner mark and marks on belts are two totally different aspects that have no relevance to each other whatsoever... other than being on the same engine
Apples and bananas .. both live in a fruit bowl but look and taste totally different ... :)
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changed mine last year belt had two sets of white marks and two sets of yellow .followed all instructions ziif.in the end used the crank and com markes .it workes :y
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All back together now.
It took quite a while, I took the opportunity to repair all the fixings that were broken by Halfords when they changed the radiator 6 months ago >:(
The engine sounds a bit rough at idle on the side of cams 3 and 4 (valve like sound), that clears up when revving up. Clackety sound comes comes back as soon as idling back.
Any idea what it could be?
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Clackety sound comes comes back as soon as idling back.
Any idea what it could be?
Sticking hydraulic lifters.
you could try something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wynns-Hydraulic-Valve-lifter-Treatment-Petrol-and-Diesel-325ml-/181164281684?pt=UK_Vehicle_Oils_Lubricants_Fluids&hash=item2a2e3b8f54
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The engine sounds a bit rough at idle on the side of cams 3 and 4 (valve like sound), that clears up when revving up. Clackety sound comes comes back as soon as idling back.
Any idea what it could be?
I found the cause of the noise, I had forgotten to tighten the pulleys after fitting the belt ::)
I realised just in time, I'd already lost a bolt on the crank pulley :o
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The engine sounds a bit rough at idle on the side of cams 3 and 4 (valve like sound), that clears up when revving up. Clackety sound comes comes back as soon as idling back.
Any idea what it could be?
I found the cause of the noise, I had forgotten to tighten the pulleys after fitting the belt ::)
I realised just in time, I'd already lost a bolt on the crank pulley :o
Ouch .. that could have been VERY expensive, hopefully nothing moved very far .... :-\ :-\
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All the pulleys stayed on, i'd only gone as far as backing the car out of my garage when the noise got worse, i open the bonnet to investigate and saw the power steering pulley wobbling a bit. I then ran into the car to switch the engine off.
Would have been also MUCH easier to tighten the all the bolts before putting the air intake back in!
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Also make sure the notches in the cam pulleys line up with the notches on the cam cover back plate.
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Also make sure the notches in the cam pulleys line up with the notches on the cam cover back plate.
Not accurate enough. As OP has recently done belt, presumably has the correct timing kit, which I'd recommend using to double check nothing has slipped.
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Also make sure the notches in the cam pulleys line up with the notches on the cam cover back plate.
Not accurate enough. As OP has recently done belt, presumably has the correct timing kit, which I'd recommend using to double check nothing has slipped.
Why would the cambelt be affected?
The pulleys that are held on by little bolts are the aux belt pulleys. The aux belt didn't jump off so presumably didn't make contact with the cambelt cover. :-\
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Also make sure the notches in the cam pulleys line up with the notches on the cam cover back plate.
Not accurate enough. As OP has recently done belt, presumably has the correct timing kit, which I'd recommend using to double check nothing has slipped.
Why would the cambelt be affected?
The pulleys that are held on by little bolts are the aux belt pulleys. The aux belt didn't jump off so presumably didn't make contact with the cambelt cover. :-\
Yep think op meant pulleys on auxillarys, ps pump etc, not cam belt pulleys :)
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Also make sure the notches in the cam pulleys line up with the notches on the cam cover back plate.
Not accurate enough. As OP has recently done belt, presumably has the correct timing kit, which I'd recommend using to double check nothing has slipped.
Why would the cambelt be affected?
The pulleys that are held on by little bolts are the aux belt pulleys. The aux belt didn't jump off so presumably didn't make contact with the cambelt cover. :-\
Ah, my bad, saw pulleys and people talking of cambelts....
:-[