Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: dbug on 31 October 2013, 16:47:18
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Britain becoming overcrowded?
Sign up here - https://petitions.express.co.uk/Say-NO-to-new-EU-migrants (https://petitions.express.co.uk/Say-NO-to-new-EU-migrants) :y
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Done! :y :y :y
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We don't have the right to say No to new EU migrants. Your wasting your time signing it.
We either accept we are not a sovereign independent nation,but members of the club superstate or we get out. seemples.
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We don't have the right to say No to new EU migrants. Your wasting your time signing it.
We either accept we are not a sovereign independent nation,but members of the club superstate or we get out. seemples.
If enough of the population say "NO!" then matters can always be changed.
We are at the moment at the limit of how many people we can accept into this country until the infrastructure has been developed to cope with ever increasing numbers. We must never sit back and just accept "what is" should always be "as is"! ;) ;)
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The population cant do a thing about it.Its like saying we can prevent people moving from kent to Essex.It just cannot be done.
EU citizens have a 100% legal right to live and work in any member state they choose. Every single person who lives in the EU could come to the UK if they wanted to and there isn't a thing our govt local council in Westminster,or anyone else can do to stop them. We need to choose what we want - Asap. :y
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whatever you sign up , wont work.. because masters have already decided that they need cheap workers.. end of..
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How many more million can we add to the population? >:(
Am I right in thinking there isn't enough services, housing etc for everybody as it is! ::)
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Signed,
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Signed, and we should boot out those already here :y
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Signed, and we should boot out those already here :y
I'm surprised at you, Cleggy. I thought you were one of the greatest advocates of our multi-cultural society. ::)
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Governments don't want to do anything about it, as plentiful cheap EU labour, pushes down wages and keeps them low. This is a part of the reason for a 9% drop in real wages in the UK since 2007. It also highlights where Labour encouraged this how they have abandoned their roots and treat the British working man with contempt. At the moment wages are rising at about 1% per year and the massaged inflation figure is 2.7% or more realistically for the absolute essentials of water, food, energy and a roof over ones head 5 to 10%. I find things that are dropping in price like 40" TV's very unappetizing and they are a bit small for a roof. :o :o :o :o
It is not only in London that house prices are going up rapidly, but according to a chart on a local estate agents website in Sandhurst houses above £350k have gone up by 11-12% in 9-10 months, whereas £150k flats have hardly gone up. There are about 8,000 properties in Sandhurst and the biggest of our local estate agents has 19 for sale in Sandhurst itself. Normally, a realistically priced property will sell within a week and where there is a real shortage of rented accommodation someone will take it within 24 hours.
I blame it on all of those well paid Londoners that are moving into Surrey, Hampshire and Berkshire commuterland, not mentioning any names of course. ::) :P ;D
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I tell you what ladies and gents.
I can absolutely guarantee you, our company would NOT have survived the recession without immigrant labour, and i know there a few more besides.
Whilst I fully agree there are simply too many people in our green and pleasent land,its nowhere near as simple as made out here.
On the other hand I'm sure there's a few that have lost out too, but there's a balance to be had. No?
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I'm with Chris on this. I am trying to hire skilled people in my sector and it is not easy. I get plenty of IT guys trying their luck thinking I will pay for their training or support them on a fat wage while they get experience >:( or go to E Europe and hire a fully qualified, experienced and competent IT Sec specialist....
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I'm with Chris on this. I am trying to hire skilled people in my sector and it is not easy. I get plenty of IT guys trying their luck thinking I will pay for their training or support them on a fat wage while they get experience >:( or go to E Europe and hire a fully qualified, experienced and competent IT Sec specialist....
Good one Guffer.. I see you are learning to think like a boss ;D
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but no one can be as clever as our govt.. now 600,000 syrians walking among us with our citizen id card so that they can vote in the nearest elections.. >:(
today I have met with a greek lady which is working here ??? but must admit , I wish all immigrants was like her ;D
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I am fully in support of immigration, as we are all ex migrants in this country; it is just we need a breather before taking in another few hundred thousand before we have built at least 100,000 homes, expanded the NHS at all levels, created more places in our schools, developed our transport infrastructure to cope with the vast influx of people on top of us who exist here all ready!
If we keep on allowing a huge influx of "new blood" to our country before we have in place all we need then social tensions will increase to a level when they break out into full civil disorder. Enoch Powell could yet prove to be right in his infamous "rivers of blood" speech, as much as that rather annoyed me at the time!
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I am fully in support of immigration, as we are all ex migrants in this country; it is just we need a breather before taking in another few hundred thousand before we have built at least 100,000 homes, expanded the NHS at all levels, created more places in our schools, developed our transport infrastructure to cope with the vast influx of people on top of us who exist here all ready!
If we keep on allowing a huge influx of "new blood" to our country before we have in place all we need then social tensions will increase to a level when they break out into full civil disorder. Enoch Powell could yet prove to be right in his infamous "rivers of blood" speech, as much as that rather annoyed me at the time!
Where is the money going to come from to do all of that, on top of building the HS2 white elephant?
As said earlier, Britain is stuck with a large influx of immigrants looking for and getting a better way of life- pay, conditions of work , health care and social benefits. Why wouldn't they come to Britain?
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Get us out of the EU pronto and adopt the Australian way, prove you have something to offer and have the means to support yourself, or don't bother turning up!
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Signed, and we should boot out those already here :y
I'm surprised at you, Cleggy. I thought you were one of the greatest advocates of our multi-cultural society. ::)
You scouse git, away with you from God's county ;) ::) ;D ;D ;D
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Get us out of the EU pronto and adopt the Australian way, prove you have something to offer and have the means to support yourself, or don't bother turning up!
AGREED :y You Pay, You Stay or else freak off :y
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The problem is not the immigrants who come here prepared to work. I have employed Polish workers in the past, their attendance is good, they work hard, and are generally nice, polite people.
It is the potential influx of a lot more Eastern Europeans who are only coming here to beg, sponge or engage in criminal activities. As said above we could learn from the Aussie approach - no job, no use, no entry.
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Some confused thinking here in some cases imo tbh. As is known Im a UKIP supporter and am in complete agreement with their policy on the subject.
Basically,and critically. The UK government should decide immigration policy and who comes into the UK. No-one else.
There is nothing wrong with sensible,controlled levels of immigration,particularily to fill gaps in the employment market where there are particular skills shortages. This currently couldn't include low end,manual, low quailifcation type jobs as there are millions of people unemployed in the UK,many of whom are in the low qualification bracket.
The problems we currently have are due to completely uncontrolled (but strongly encouraged) levels of immigration,which was a secret but very strong policy of the previous government. As Peter Mandelson said recently "we didn't just encourage immigrants to come here,we sent out search parties to find more of them".
To do that while telling your parliament and electorate the complete opposite is tantamount to treason in my opinion.
We now have an infrastructure (from schools,hospitals roads to the welfare state) which is at breaking point everywhere you look.
We also have a chronic so called housing shortage.It could be argued that there is no shortage of housing,just too many people.
As Lizzie said the infrastructure could catch up in the future,but that would mean saying goodbye to much of this green & pleasant land to build huge numbers of houses,and then the roads,schools hospitals etc. to serve them.
We are a relatively small island.Surely there has to be a limit on the number of people living on it at some point ? Bearing in mind that many of the immigrants from a cultural point of view will tend to have larger families in the future than the indigenous population will.
http://www.ukip.org/issues/policy-pages/immigration
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I'm with Chris on this. I am trying to hire skilled people in my sector and it is not easy. I get plenty of IT guys trying their luck thinking I will pay for their training or support them on a fat wage while they get experience >:( or go to E Europe and hire a fully qualified, experienced and competent IT Sec specialist....
That is because there pay is much lower than the UK, so it is easier to buy in 'cheap' labour rather than training local people, which is the point I made earlier. There is also a big global shortage of people with relevant IT skills and Eastern Europe is better than the UK in many ways with their education systems, work ethic and training of their workforce. Ukraine has the 4th best educated workforce in the world. In the UK the number of computer science graduates is dropping where we are too busy churning out Media Studies and Leisure and Tourism graduates as our next generation of burger flippers.
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It's a perfectly natural phenomenon, the fall of the British empire. Read your history books.
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And that's where I'm confused.
Monopolies and mergers we all hate. Closed shops we all hate. Yet when competition is introduced, competition that is superior as Rods suggests, we want to shut the doors, shut up shop and hide under the duvet.
Mmmmno. Not me. Where's the progress there? The development? The learning? Competition is good. Its progress. And we can't progress without it.
Uk simply can't afford arrogance in the belief we have everything we need. We don't. Professionally speaking of course.
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And that's where I'm confused.
Monopolies and mergers we all hate. Closed shops we all hate. Yet when competition is introduced, competition that is superior as Rods suggests, we want to shut the doors, shut up shop and hide under the duvet.
Mmmmno. Not me. Where's the progress there? The development? The learning? Competition is good. Its progress. And we can't progress without it.
Uk simply can't afford arrogance in the belief we have everything we need. We don't. Professionally speaking of course.
No, we want controlled immigration to enable us to pick and choose who we allow into this country — as they do in Australia, Canada, US, etc. It's not a simple choice of immigration or no immigration. It's a question of control...and who governs that control. Call me old-fashioned if you will, but I believe such decisions should by the UK, not Brussels. :y
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And that's where I'm confused.
Monopolies and mergers we all hate. Closed shops we all hate. Yet when competition is introduced, competition that is superior as Rods suggests, we want to shut the doors, shut up shop and hide under the duvet.
Mmmmno. Not me. Where's the progress there? The development? The learning? Competition is good. Its progress. And we can't progress without it.
Uk simply can't afford arrogance in the belief we have everything we need. We don't. Professionally speaking of course.
No, we want controlled immigration to enable us to pick and choose who we allow into this country — as they do in Australia, Canada, US, etc. It's not a simple choice of immigration or no immigration. It's a question of control...and who governs that control. Call me old-fashioned if you will, but I believe such decisions should by the UK, not Brussels. :y
Abso FREAKIN Lutely :y :y :y :y :y :y
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There are alot of manual jobs that tend to be filled by migrant workers that the unemployed or plain lazy should/could be doing... trouble is those people see things like cleaning as being beneath them >:( better to be working than scrounging, if only for the sake of pride surely :-\
As already suggested, the majority of those who have come here from Poland and the like have a solid work ethic and have come here to work, so will gladly do the jobs that many here wouldn't inspite of some employers paying them less than they might pay locally. And I very much doubt that they choose to come here for the hell of it... I mean, would you leave the UK and move a couple of thousand miles away from your family/friends to a country whose language is not your own unless there was a significant improvement in your life?
Didn't think so...
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Historically and even until quite recently,British people have been among the hardest working in the world. However,the welfare state (a great thing at its inception) has been perverted to be used as a political tool. Firstly it was buying peoples votes with their own money,and latterly buying peoples votes with other peoples money.
We ended up with a large chunk of what used to be the working class,living on benefits,and if they had children (the more the merrier)or convinced a GP they had a bad back/ depression or some other hard to disprove ailment,they could end up with more money by sitting at home than they could by doing a days work.
That's the point at which people from Poland etc. came here to do th jobs "the British didn't want to do". If the Polish welfare state was the same as ours,they wouldn't have came here to do the jobs,would they ?
How to put things right ? Stop more people coming to do low skilled jobs,and then as the low skill jobs become available give the unemployed the choice of taking them,or a complete loss of benefits.
Then,over time British workers wil once again be as good as any others. Its no coincidence that the country with the most generous welfare system in the world,is the country that felt the need to import a whole new working class.
We started with the honourable and admirable system of lifting people out of abject poverty,and ended up with the grotesque chaos of a government being accused of taking the food from the mouths of the poor and starving,because they wanted to lower the limit of welfare payments to £600 per week - which is considerably higher than the majority the population earn.
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There are alot of manual jobs that tend to be filled by migrant workers that the unemployed or plain lazy should/could be doing... trouble is those people see things like cleaning as being beneath them >:( better to be working than scrounging, if only for the sake of pride surely :-\
As already suggested, the majority of those who have come here from Poland and the like have a solid work ethic and have come here to work, so will gladly do the jobs that many here wouldn't inspite of some employers paying them less than they might pay locally. And I very much doubt that they choose to come here for the hell of it... I mean, would you leave the UK and move a couple of thousand miles away from your family/friends to a country whose language is not your own unless there was a significant improvement in your life?
Didn't think so...
Nail on the head comes to mind :y
To that, you can add the immigrants that have come over here legally, got there head down and kept there mouths shut, learnt a trade and got on with making a life for themselves and there family instead of whining and whinging about pay, pensions and conditions all the time.
It has got to the point where if the UK firms have the choice of 2 potential employees with identical qualifications ....... 1 British and 1 foreign then they will pick the foreign person because they have a better chance of a decent days work out them :(
Its becoming a common pre conception that all UK workers are lazy barstewards >:( >:(
Well that 'dangle berries' too >:( >:(
There are a hell of a lot of people out there who WANT to work but are never given the chance because they are deemed too old, or get tarred with the same brush as the wasters who hang around the jobcentre every 2 weeks
In my part of the world, the unemployment is that bad that by the age of 40, you are on the scrap heap unless you can get one of the very few skilled jobs around through the back door / contacts inside the firm so to speak.
The manual labour jobs are mostly zero hour contracts / temps now and you have no choice but to go through a agency.
The biggest problem in that is that most of these agencies may be UK registered companies but they are only interested in employing non UK workers because of the stigma that surrounds us.
As for the petition, waste of time for the reasons already said BUT signed because it made me feel a little better for 5 minutes :)
Solution to the problem ..................
Tell the EU to stick it
Close the borders for 5 years minimum to unskilled workers whether they have a job waiting though one of the dodgy agencies or not.
Start a phased deportation of non skilled workers and replace them with British born workers.
If the British worker does not pull his weight then he get no welfare whatsoever and starves :y
Make a list of the skills this country needs to survive. These courses should be massively subsidised by the British tax payer for the benefit of the students BORN in these islands. Not somebody who arrived here under a lorry because some garlic crunching security guard in Calais looked the other way with his governments blessing, hung around the social security office for 10 years bleating asylum then get handed a passport by our wonderful government of the day and being told they are now BRITISH >:( >:( >:(
Some of the money saved from leaving the EU should be ploughed back into full time education to pay for this and infrastructure projects in the areas of the UK that needs it, NOT Kent and the south east / west who have had the lions share of money for too long :P :P
Bring back National Service / Work parties for those lazy scumbags who refuse to work for a living.
I'm sure out outposts like the Falklands could do with some forced labour to do manual work and improve there infrastructure (roads ect)
Also tax breaks for all companies who employ British workers so it makes it more economically viable.
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done
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I'm with Chris on this. I am trying to hire skilled people in my sector and it is not easy. I get plenty of IT guys trying their luck thinking I will pay for their training or support them on a fat wage while they get experience >:( or go to E Europe and hire a fully qualified, experienced and competent IT Sec specialist....
That is because there pay is much lower than the UK, so it is easier to buy in 'cheap' labour rather than training local people, which is the point I made earlier. There is also a big global shortage of people with relevant IT skills and Eastern Europe is better than the UK in many ways with their education systems, work ethic and training of their workforce. Ukraine has the 4th best educated workforce in the world. In the UK the number of computer science graduates is dropping where we are too busy churning out Media Studies and Leisure and Tourism graduates as our next generation of burger flippers.
Because just a degree is not enough, certainly in my field. Additional accreditations are required which cost a lot to get, I spent thousands on mine in the knowledge that if I worked hard I would get a decent job at the end.....and I did.
What I see is a lot of young and middle aged brits who almost expect me to pay for this training and support them while they get the necessary experience.....I am part of a very small company and I cannot afford that. I fully intend to take on graduates in the future but in the meantime my recruitment is not exclusively limited to the UK because I cannot easily find what I need on these shores. Is that my fault? Why should I fork out money for something people can get themselves, money which would mean the difference between profit and loss?
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You may allow me to say something about it. GB is one of the strongest country in the EU I can't see though why Cameron won't push Brussel to definiate a minimal rate of salary per month and a minimal social benefit that could/should be compulsory for all the EU members. If somebody got the same money would anybody so stupid as to leave the home of theirs own? Hardly believe. I've got an average salary per month that is much lower than yours it is about one-third or one fourth if the Google is right but the price level is just half to yours, which significantly means that a simple employee can't save so much money here than in England. Often impossible to save money! The other point I must mention that seems you tend to forget about your own language, which is a real investment if somebody used it well, pretty sure that lots of people just want to learn in English and don't want to leave home for London for ever. Actually 10 000 Hungarian live and work in GB and Ireland 90% of them just for learning beside some menial job and they strong decision to come home after 5-10 yrs. So if you really want to avoid an overcrowded Britannia then push your goverment to push the leader countries (France, Germany) to make closely the same circumstances all around the EU countries in point of salaries, prices, social benefits, education and so on. Remember to differenciate between criminals and simple people who work double enthusiasm, double strength as "immigrants". Can't really remember any of article I've red ever, which was about E European criminals I don't say though they are not existing the news are certainly not full of them. Unless Bulgarian, Moldavian and others from the Balkan as they come from the bottom of Europe.
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How many more million can we add to the population? >:(
Am I right in thinking there isn't enough services, housing etc for everybody as it is! ::)
+1 :y
Well we all know who get to the front of the list first dont we for any service >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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It's not a question of blocking everyone, at my last job, which I enjoyed greatly, there were from memory the following nationals working at the small start up mobile company:
English
Italian
Lithuanian
Spanish
Polish
Irish
Australian
Slovenian
New Zealand
Turkish
It was company of around 35 people, maybe 50 at it's peak. The Polish chap we got in, who spoke little English, wrote more code in 8 hours than the previous English guy did in several weeks!
Fair to say that multi-million pound start up company, would not have functioned without EU members. Some of the top devs, one of whom was Turkish was on £55k.
Sadly it's the bums that come over here and want to take everything for nothing, it's that which needs to be stopped, not an out-right ban in my opinion :y
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It's not a question of blocking everyone, at my last job, which I enjoyed greatly, there were from memory the following nationals working at the small start up mobile company:
English
Italian
Lithuanian
Spanish
Polish
Irish
Australian
Slovenian
New Zealand
Turkish
It was company of around 35 people, maybe 50 at it's peak. The Polish chap we got in, who spoke little English, wrote more code in 8 hours than the previous English guy did in several weeks!
Fair to say that multi-million pound start up company, would not have functioned without EU members. Some of the top devs, one of whom was Turkish was on £55k.
Sadly it's the bums that come over here and want to take everything for nothing, it's that which needs to be stopped, not an out-right ban in my opinion :y
:o
I can hardly pass 30K£ with one full time job + multiple projects here and there.. (and not every year)
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To be honest Cem, £45-55k was standard for senior developers :y
They dropped a team of around 6 senior devs, all on similar money for about 50 in Brazil. Who were rubbish, took them weeks to do what one of our guys could do in hours ;D
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To be honest Cem, £45-55k was standard for senior developers :y
They dropped a team of around 6 senior devs, all on similar money for about 50 in Brazil. Who were rubbish, took them weeks to do what one of our guys could do in hours ;D
tempting.. but I am too old and lazy to move.. :-\
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To be honest Cem, £45-55k was standard for senior developers :y
They dropped a team of around 6 senior devs, all on similar money for about 50 in Brazil. Who were rubbish, took them weeks to do what one of our guys could do in hours ;D
tempting.. but I am too old and lazy to move.. :-\
:y :y
Well my original point was that not all EU migrants are hear to take, lot come here and work very hard and do well :y
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And that's where I'm confused.
Monopolies and mergers we all hate. Closed shops we all hate. Yet when competition is introduced, competition that is superior as Rods suggests, we want to shut the doors, shut up shop and hide under the duvet.
Mmmmno. Not me. Where's the progress there? The development? The learning? Competition is good. Its progress. And we can't progress without it.
Uk simply can't afford arrogance in the belief we have everything we need. We don't. Professionally speaking of course.
No, we want controlled immigration to enable us to pick and choose who we allow into this country — as they do in Australia, Canada, US, etc. It's not a simple choice of immigration or no immigration. It's a question of control...and who governs that control. Call me old-fashioned if you will, but I believe such decisions should by the UK, not Brussels. :y
Control needing a level of competence of course, and I don't see any in either frankly.
But this a slightly differant argument to the one presented earlier. One minute we're talking absolutes, the next it's "oh well we can let these in but no those" ..?
I think you'll find the clean end of the stick prety much always has a shity end, no matter the walk of life.
Anyway, for fear of arguing the colour of shite, be it on a stick or not, I'll agree in terms of pure numbers. It's way out of hand. IMO.
Anyone thinking of moving to Spain? Btw? Or any sunnier climes? At all.... ::)
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To be honest Cem, £45-55k was standard for senior developers :y
They dropped a team of around 6 senior devs, all on similar money for about 50 in Brazil. Who were rubbish, took them weeks to do what one of our guys could do in hours ;D
tempting.. but I am too old and lazy to move.. :-\
:y :y
Well my original point was that not all EU migrants are hear to take, lot come here and work very hard and do well :y
problem is all my family is here.. my relations etc etc.. and hundreds of lines (even more) of code days are long gone..
because you reach a point where you have many projects running and you only need to make maintenance.. its where you stop (or slow down).. and it became boring at some point.. :(
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You may allow me to say something about it. GB is one of the strongest country in the EU I can't see though why Cameron won't push Brussel to definiate a minimal rate of salary per month and a minimal social benefit that could/should be compulsory for all the EU members. If somebody got the same money would anybody so stupid as to leave the home of theirs own? Hardly believe. I've got an average salary per month that is much lower than yours it is about one-third or one fourth if the Google is right but the price level is just half to yours, which significantly means that a simple employee can't save so much money here than in England. Often impossible to save money! The other point I must mention that seems you tend to forget about your own language, which is a real investment if somebody used it well, pretty sure that lots of people just want to learn in English and don't want to leave home for London for ever. Actually 10 000 Hungarian live and work in GB and Ireland 90% of them just for learning beside some menial job and they strong decision to come home after 5-10 yrs. So if you really want to avoid an overcrowded Britannia then push your goverment to push the leader countries (France, Germany) to make closely the same circumstances all around the EU countries in point of salaries, prices, social benefits, education and so on. Remember to differenciate between criminals and simple people who work double enthusiasm, double strength as "immigrants". Can't really remember any of article I've red ever, which was about E European criminals I don't say though they are not existing the news are certainly not full of them. Unless Bulgarian, Moldavian and others from the Balkan as they come from the bottom of Europe.
There is a problem with doing this. It has already happened in Spain, Italy, Greece with the Euro and that is one reason why those countries are struggling. Although wages are high in Britain everything else is costly in relation except perhaps Internet. The ideal job would be one you can do in another country BUT get paid UK wages. Your housing costs, fuel , food would all be less and you would have more money to save or spend. Not many jobs like that though!
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I'm with Chris on this. I am trying to hire skilled people in my sector and it is not easy. I get plenty of IT guys trying their luck thinking I will pay for their training or support them on a fat wage while they get experience >:( or go to E Europe and hire a fully qualified, experienced and competent IT Sec specialist....
That is because there pay is much lower than the UK, so it is easier to buy in 'cheap' labour rather than training local people, which is the point I made earlier. There is also a big global shortage of people with relevant IT skills and Eastern Europe is better than the UK in many ways with their education systems, work ethic and training of their workforce. Ukraine has the 4th best educated workforce in the world. In the UK the number of computer science graduates is dropping where we are too busy churning out Media Studies and Leisure and Tourism graduates as our next generation of burger flippers.
Because just a degree is not enough, certainly in my field. Additional accreditations are required which cost a lot to get, I spent thousands on mine in the knowledge that if I worked hard I would get a decent job at the end.....and I did.
What I see is a lot of young and middle aged brits who almost expect me to pay for this training and support them while they get the necessary experience.....I am part of a very small company and I cannot afford that. I fully intend to take on graduates in the future but in the meantime my recruitment is not exclusively limited to the UK because I cannot easily find what I need on these shores. Is that my fault? Why should I fork out money for something people can get themselves, money which would mean the difference between profit and loss?
I not saying you should, we all have to run our businesses how we see fit and utilise the best materials and resources for the cheapest price we can get. If we don't then over time you make losses and go out of business. Supply and demand sets wages and prices. Getting cheaper labour from Eastern Europe will reduce the rate of wage increases or deflate wages in the UK depending upon the level of demand for that skill. It will have the opposite effect in the countries where these people are emigrating from if they have in-demand skills. People with high in-demand skills are always employable, with IT that means we all have to develop and take on-board new languages and technologies, as it is easy to be out-of-date and not employable.
The 'problem' with the free movement of all labour is that the UK is creating private sector jobs whereas most Euro economies aren't with the exception of Germany, but English is a much more common second language than German and our wages are at the higher end for EU countries. So there is always going to be a natural pull towards the UK. We just have to accept that this will depress wage growth and opportunities with an average -9% real wage growth since 2007 and continuing to rise as the best mechanism for salary increases is labour shortages and this is why IT has been one of the few wage growth industries since 2007.
Personally, I think the decadence and entitlement culture of too many UK youth, where they think the world owes them a living is a major problem in this country. In Eastern Europe there is not this culture, where society has a good incentive scheme which is learnt from a very young age, work hard or starve! The biggest downside I have seen is that many have the attitude 'never mind the quality, look how quick the work was done'. My mother-in-laws favourite saying as she is bodging something is "It is not being shown in an exhibition"!
Personally, I'm currently working on going in the opposite direction, where I earn commission from various websites and selling into Western countries and having an East European cost base. :) :) :y :y :y
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To be honest Cem, £45-55k was standard for senior developers :y
They dropped a team of around 6 senior devs, all on similar money for about 50 in Brazil. Who were rubbish, took them weeks to do what one of our guys could do in hours ;D
They were bloody stupid then as Brasil labour rates are higher than here and the currency moves more than Jimbobs arse on a Sunday morning at Newent
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To be honest Cem, £45-55k was standard for senior developers :y
They dropped a team of around 6 senior devs, all on similar money for about 50 in Brazil. Who were rubbish, took them weeks to do what one of our guys could do in hours ;D
They were bloody stupid then as Brasil labour rates are higher than here and the currency moves more than Jimbobs arse on a Sunday morning at Newent
What can I say, that's what the American owners did who bought us. :-\
Sacked everyone who knew how the Europe SMS billing worked, then decided to build a new system, with 50 devs in Brazil, when we had a very narrow window each day to discuss issues :-\
I remember being at a meeting, where they said 'we will launch a country every 2 weeks!' (we had around 18 at the time on the old superior system) - I put my hand up and questioned about that being too challenging. No was basically the response.
6 months later, countries completed? 2 ;D
And the result? Around 150 SMS's could be spend per hour.
The old system did around 1,500, per minute ;D
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As for narrow window, the time difference to most of the populated areas in Brasil is 4 hours in the summer and 2 in the winter so dead easy to work with.
THE only reason why you use Brasil reseource is if you have a contract with a Brasil firm that requires local content
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THE only reason why you use Brasil reseource is if you have a contract with a Brasil firm that requires local content
Or if you have a penchant for a certain type of female backside ::)
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THE only reason why you use Brasil reseource is if you have a contract with a Brasil firm that requires local content
Or if you have a penchant for a certain type of female backside ::)
:-* :y
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This might well be scaremongering from The Wail, but on the other hand it might not! ::)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2483807/Queue-work-Britain-NHS-fast-food-firms-hotel-chains-recruit-cheap-labour-Romania.html
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As long as people won't work in/acknowledge the services that they take for granted, then this will continue to happen...
Hell I suspect most people don't even realise that nurses, cleaners, burger flippers etc are actually people at at all, but rather pixies who magically do pretty much every behind the scenes job, requiring little more than a click of the fingers or fairy dust for things to magically be done ::)