Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: maracus on 22 November 2013, 15:21:22
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I've got a mate with a 316 e46 8v BMW. He's been told his head gasket is shot. I had a look last night and I wasn't convinced until he switched it off and a dick load of coolant and what smelt like exhaust gas rapidly escaped via the open expansion cap. Anyway I think his thermostat seized shut hence the gasket gone, as the pipe from the thermostat wasn't at all full of hot water.
Anyway to the point, he's got the bits, and a driveway to work on, I've got a gazebo and the tools (afaik, unless there's specialist tools needed) and the relevant (ish) knowledge to do the job ( but I'm no mechanic this will only be my third or forth head off job) so I've told him ill do it for £70 for my time and efforts. While I'm getting the head skimmed, ill enrol him to the task of doing the crap job of getting the block face all clean and shiny, and he can help out where he can (so ill have plenty of cups of tea then) to make my life easier.
But then I had a call today, he can't give me £70 as he's not flush with cash, will I do it for £30 :o
What to do.. Do I simply tell him no, stick to my guns and insist on £70, OR get him to give me £30 this weekend and the rest next month when he gets paid (possible chance ill never see that extra £40) or say call It £50 and take that for it?
It's not a close friend just someone who I get on well with. Also, I'd hate to be stitched up for the next week of my free time doing that, all for not a lot of payment. I'm struggling to draw a line between helping out a mate, and a mate taking the piss!!
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I've got a mate with a 316 e46 8v BMW. He's been told his head gasket is shot. I had a look last night and I wasn't convinced until he switched it off and a dick load of coolant and what smelt like exhaust gas rapidly escaped via the open expansion cap. Anyway I think his thermostat seized shut hence the gasket gone, as the pipe from the thermostat wasn't at all full of hot water.
Anyway to the point, he's got the bits, and a driveway to work on, I've got a gazebo and the tools (afaik, unless there's specialist tools needed) and the relevant (ish) knowledge to do the job ( but I'm no mechanic this will only be my third or forth head off job) so I've told him ill do it for £70 for my time and efforts. While I'm getting the head skimmed, ill enrol him to the task of doing the crap job of getting the block face all clean and shiny, and he can help out where he can (so ill have plenty of cups of tea then) to make my life easier.
But then I had a call today, he can't give me £70 as he's not flush with cash, will I do it for £30 :o
What to do.. Do I simply tell him no, stick to my guns and insist on £70, OR get him to give me £30 this weekend and the rest next month when he gets paid (possible chance ill never see that extra £40) or say call It £50 and take that for it?
It's not a close friend just someone who I get on well with. Also, I'd hate to be stitched up for the next week of my free time doing that, all for not a lot of payment. I'm struggling to draw a line between helping out a mate, and a mate taking the piss!!
Dilemma. :-\ :'( :'(
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... and a mate taking the piss!!
I think that something might have turned up & you don't now have the time to do it. >:(
Or do £30 worth & finish the job when you get the rest! ::) ::)
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... and a mate taking the piss!!
I think that something might have turned up & you don't now have the time to do it. >:(
Or do £30 worth & finish the job when you get the rest! ::) ::)
Well until a couple of hours ago I was hoping to have the car loaded by now but I haven't even cleared it from the last weeks worth of crap yet!
Unless I say look mate £5 an hour but it might take more than 10 hours anyway as I have great skill at failing to do any car work within an allocated timescale!! ::) id be happy to help him out for £50, if he was a she, and I were single, even just so I could stare at a cleavage while I stop and chat ;) but I can't help but feel he's just trying to get a job done as cheap as possible (can't blame him for that really) but I feel I'm already offering him a damn good mate rate, but if things really are that hard I don't wanna stitch him up and in that case would happily help out for £50, if he'll equally compromise. Anyone want a BMW? It's red and needs a head gasket lol
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If he can't raise £70 he can't afford to fill it up with petrol either, so he can wait until he does. :y
It really depends on your friendship with him, which only you can answer, but you've given him a very reasonable offer to fix it for £70, IMHO. I think he's taking a bit of a liberty to ask for it done for that little. Let him get a few quotes from garages and see if he mysteriously finds the cash.
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That's the thing though he's already had quotes that vary from £300 (which is suspiciously cheap, they were going to collect the car and provide the parts and do the work, and has been sourced via Facebook) up to the £1000 region by local garages, so he knows the potential cost!
I'm tempted to say ill do it for £50 but want the cash this weekend, I could do with the money til payday and a bird in hand is worth two in the bush n' all that, but ill hold out for a few hours before I make my offer to him, see if he changes his mind in the meantime :y
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If he can't raise £70 he can't afford to fill it up with petrol either, so he can wait until he does. :y
It really depends on your friendship with him, which only you can answer, but you've given him a very reasonable offer to fix it for £70, IMHO. I think he's taking a bit of a liberty to ask for it done for that little. Let him get a few quotes from garages and see if he mysteriously finds the cash.
I'll 2nd that Kevin. £70 is more than reasonable. Maybe he will just have to wait.
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It's all good now, I got to the bottom of it,
He has £70 but will have to pay for the head skim out of that, think he meant he'd owe me the money til he has it. But I told him I won't touch it til I've seen a Haynes manual for it, which he hasn't yet got hold of so that's brought him some time to get more cash. He's happy to pay £70 so all is good :) he gets a job done, I add another "experience qudos" to my handiness; it'll be the first time I've touched a BMW, and a chain drive head so I'm all up for the experience!
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Er, am I the only one that has NOT seen symptoms of a failed hg yet?
If the cap is removed while the engine is hot, it WILL spew a load of coolant out. That's normal. As the cap keeps it from boiling, no?
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Er, am I the only one that has NOT seen symptoms of a failed hg yet?
If the cap is removed while the engine is hot, it WILL spew a load of coolant out. That's normal. As the cap keeps it from boiling, no?
+1 :y :y stat yes-h/g no
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The cap was already off while the engine warmed up, I didn't try and open it hot ::) I haven't had a case before when switching the engine off hot when the cap is off would make it spontaneously boil and overflow like it did, could I still rule out head gasket?
The oil doesn't smell of fuel, but has mayo present, although no worse than an omega v6 used for short journeys does. The coolant didn't smell of fumes either, until this sudden splurge on switch off. I got a whiff of exhaust gas as it was spewing out, and tbh I wasn't convinced the head gasket was shot until he turned it off. I can't compression test it as my compression tester is so old and frail its actually broken! Maybe I've just jumped to a conclusion here.
The owner also reports his temperature gauge reads in the red after a bit of a drive, and his water light comes on so he stops for it to cool down. But the whole time from once it warmed up, for the whole of about ten minutes, his gauge didn't budge from the half way point. Symptom of stuck thermostat?
He also reports sluggish performance, but again you could explain that with it getting so hot.
If I'm honest I'm not convinced the head gasket is gone, I didn't think it was until this while thing of when he switched it off, and it runs sweet as a nut on idle, and there was no bubbles appearing in the header. Especially now, as I've just spoken to him and he said the heater didnt work and now it does; I gave the pipes a squeeze last night as the coolant level randomly started to rise and overflow, dispite not being that warm. So I'm thinking now that maybe its a case of his thermostats seized, and its overheated and spewed its coolant out, and he's failed to bleed it properly when he topped it back up???
Only worry is, has that took the gasket out with it!??
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Try pressure testing the cooling system. All it will cost him is a header cap and a valve.
Check the colour of the spark plugs.
Finally, before embarking on the work you really need to do a compression check. You won't win any favours if the gasket is perfect on stripping down.
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Just suppose.....that it didnt go well and the outcome was something else.....mate or no mate you are the first in the firing line to be shot at,after all is it realy worth it for £30...i think not........if you were doing it for half the price of the garage repair he is still saving money...and you could cock a deaf ear and at worse loose an aquaintance......if he was a friend he would not expect you to do it for peanuts....me thinks the micheal is being taken.. ::) ::)
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Try pressure testing the cooling system. All it will cost him is a header cap and a valve.
Check the colour of the spark plugs.
Finally, before embarking on the work you really need to do a compression check. You won't win any favours if the gasket is perfect on stripping down.
Quite so. ;)
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Very true.. My thoughts at the mo are to swap out the thermostat, bleed the coolant up and then test the car, and see if that cures it. Ill have a look at the plugs while I'm there, then if it still isn't right, will get myself a new compression tester. I need another one, but haven't had the reason to get one yet, although I'd rather not get one until I actually need one, ill see how it goes after sorting the coolant side of things out, then i shall know a bit better where I stand :) that might just sort it...
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So doing your mates' work has prompted you to spend on tools you don't need ::)
Before shelling out ANYTHING remove the stat and test it in a pan of water and bring to the boil and observe it's opening temperature. That way you haven't bought parts that MAY fix the problem and you've left the most costly test til last. If it was an Omega the bonus is that if it is the HG the stat has to come out anyway so you're half way there....not sure about the bimmer in question :y
I remember when I had a performance issue......with my Omega, not anything else ::) my first instinct was to chuck second hand parts at it and after valuable advice on here I no longer do that. Testing, testing, testing.... :y
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You're quite right I make too many assumptions! Ill test it tomorrow :y it looks a piece of cake to get to so shouldn't be a big problem to whip it off to test.
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Well I had a look at his thermostat and sure enough its seized solid! Had it boiling in a pan and there was no sign of movement so I've told him to get a thermostat and hopefully the heads ok as there seems to be no other symptons of h/g failure. Fingers crossed it is just that lol
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Well I had a look at his thermostat and sure enough its seized solid! Had it boiling in a pan and there was no sign of movement so I've told him to get a thermostat and hopefully the heads ok as there seems to be no other symptons of h/g failure. Fingers crossed it is just that lol
Good work mate :y
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Well I had a look at his thermostat and sure enough its seized solid! Had it boiling in a pan and there was no sign of movement so I've told him to get a thermostat and hopefully the heads ok as there seems to be no other symptons of h/g failure. Fingers crossed it is just that lol
Good work mate :y
Cheers :y only trouble is, now he's on about getting a second hand thermostat from a scrap yard. :o I did tell him not to mess about with a secondhand one as it might be just as bad. Hey ho.
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Cheers :y only trouble is, now he's on about getting a second hand thermostat from a scrap yard. :o I did tell him not to mess about with a secondhand one as it might be just as bad. Hey ho.
(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)(http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/bangheadonwall.gif)
You just can't help some people ;D ;D
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hahahaha ;)
i suppose though if you test the second hand one and its ok..... and its not too much of a pita to do ??? :-\
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You can take a horse to water...
The best part is, I told him last week when I first looked at it, I'm not convinced your gaskets gone. Don't get a gasket set yet mate. So he got one anyway. Now the shop he got it from won't issue a refund, I'm assuming because its a special order ::)
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::) ::) ::)
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Why do I get the feeling your mate would do this too...
(http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2012-bmw-1-series_100334419_m.jpg)
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:y which wheel drive? Lol
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Oh I just love that ... priceless :y :y :y :y :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Well I had a look at his thermostat and sure enough its seized solid! Had it boiling in a pan and there was no sign of movement so I've told him to get a thermostat and hopefully the heads ok as there seems to be no other symptons of h/g failure. Fingers crossed it is just that lol
Good work mate :y
Cheers :y only trouble is, now he's on about getting a second hand thermostat from a scrap yard. :o I did tell him not to mess about with a secondhand one as it might be just as bad. Hey ho.
(http://www.smokinvette.com/corvetteforum/images/smilies/doh.gif)
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You can take a horse to water...
The best part is, I told him last week when I first looked at it, I'm not convinced your gaskets gone. Don't get a gasket set yet mate. So he got one anyway. Now the shop he got it from won't issue a refund, I'm assuming because its a special order ::)
Have you checked that the water pump is actually pumping water,seen quite a few where the plastic impeller has broken up or come off causing similar issues,it can bugger the stat as well due to localized overheating.
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You can take a horse to water...
The best part is, I told him last week when I first looked at it, I'm not convinced your gaskets gone. Don't get a gasket set yet mate. So he got one anyway. Now the shop he got it from won't issue a refund, I'm assuming because its a special order ::)
Have you checked that the water pump is actually pumping water,seen quite a few where the plastic impeller has broken up or come off causing similar issues,it can bugger the stat as well due to localized overheating.
Maybe, that would explain why the thermostat seized in the first place, but its since had a recent water pump fitted anyway (I think as a result of it overheating). Im pretty sure it is pumping ok, but you've just prompted me to check that the belt tensions good and that its turning sufficiently when it goes back together :y
The latest I've heard is that the fella has managed to track down a replacement thermostat of the new variety from autoparts or someone, for a bargain £35 (a bit better than the other quotes of >£70! So he's going to get one of those :y
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You can take a horse to water...
The best part is, I told him last week when I first looked at it, I'm not convinced your gaskets gone. Don't get a gasket set yet mate. So he got one anyway. Now the shop he got it from won't issue a refund, I'm assuming because its a special order ::)
Have you checked that the water pump is actually pumping water,seen quite a few where the plastic impeller has broken up or come off causing similar issues,it can bugger the stat as well due to localized overheating.
I was thinking this too, had to do my brothers E36 this year shards of plastic everywhere ,also if it's a viscous fan they can bugger up too !
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Off the top of my head I think its electric on this one but I wasn't paying much attention. Although if it was viscous I'd have probably thought "oh look its a viscous fan" as all the ones I seem to come across are electric! ;D
And to further fuel the banter, he asked me if I could change the gasket anyway, as he can't get the kit he brought refunded! ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D
I was like uuuhhhh no mate lets see how it goes first!!
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With friends like him ............................you move house. ::) ;D
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I would walk away ::) time waster using that sort of part secondhand :y
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I don't do "mate's rates".
Either it's free (+parts/expenses)
or full price.
I'm owed a few favours.
but only by people that I *know* will repay them.
in full.
with interest.
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I would walk away ::) time waster using that sort of part secondhand :y
It's ok he's seen the light and is getting a new one :y
I don't do "mate's rates".
Either it's free (+parts/expenses)
or full price.
I'm owed a few favours.
but only by people that I *know* will repay them.
in full.
with interest.
See I'm not bothered about the owe-age of favours, as I'm owed enough favours from some anyway ;D
I'm happy to help out, favour owed ow not, I didn't agree with him taking to a garage and paying a fortune for something that I could babe done for him. It doesn't pay at the rate I've charged, but it covers the weeks "pocket money" in case Id have to turn anything else away for the week in my own time. So to me, that's my expenses covered (travelings not a problem as I'm back and forth anyway)
With friends like him ............................you move house. ::) ;D
;D ;D ;D you know it!!!
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Friday. He's getting the thermostat Friday. Gotta love his enthusiasm. He messaged me asking if I can crack on with doing this head gasket.
Lets see how this thermostat change goes first though mate!
But he confirmed, water pump failure. That'll explain the stat seizing, as suggested in a previous post. ;D
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Thought I'd share this to give you all a laugh, he got the thermostat yesterday, then messaged me to say he'd fitted the thermostat. He reckoned his uncle "bled it properly" and that it is still boiling up. I asked him if his heaters work. No they don't. When I gave his pipes a squeeze before the thermostat change the heaters miracoulsy worked afterwards. And he managed to drive it the 6 miles from his house, to where it sits now to be worked on, without it overheating, whereas before I gave the pipes a squeeze he couldn't even make it to the local tescos!
Bled up properly my butt!!
Only I then heard that his uncle took the car for a good blast, came back ten minutes later and there was steam pouring out everywhere! (Just to be sure that head gasket needs changing, just take it out with no coolant in he head and give it a thrash, just to make sure! >:(
Really wish if have priced myself off the job now, not the work that bothers me, its the idiots that I'm dealing with :D ;D
..or maybe its me! Maybe his gasket is shot! Well if it wasn't it is now hey!
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Thought I'd share this to give you all a laugh, he got the thermostat yesterday, then messaged me to say he'd fitted the thermostat. He reckoned his uncle "bled it properly" and that it is still boiling up. I asked him if his heaters work. No they don't. When I gave his pipes a squeeze before the thermostat change the heaters miracoulsy worked afterwards. And he managed to drive it the 6 miles from his house, to where it sits now to be worked on, without it overheating, whereas before I gave the pipes a squeeze he couldn't even make it to the local tescos!
Bled up properly my butt!!
Only I then heard that his uncle took the car for a good blast, came back ten minutes later and there was steam pouring out everywhere! (Just to be sure that head gasket needs changing, just take it out with no coolant in he head and give it a thrash, just to make sure! >:(
Really wish if have priced myself off the job now, not the work that bothers me, its the idiots that I'm dealing with :D ;D
..or maybe its me! Maybe his gasket is shot! Well if it wasn't it is now hey!
If the head gasket wasn't blown, it probably is now. May well have warped the head too. If I were you mate, I would wash my hands of it and tell him to get his uncle to finish the job for him. You cant help people like that. ;)
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Thought I'd share this to give you all a laugh, he got the thermostat yesterday, then messaged me to say he'd fitted the thermostat. He reckoned his uncle "bled it properly" and that it is still boiling up. I asked him if his heaters work. No they don't. When I gave his pipes a squeeze before the thermostat change the heaters miracoulsy worked afterwards. And he managed to drive it the 6 miles from his house, to where it sits now to be worked on, without it overheating, whereas before I gave the pipes a squeeze he couldn't even make it to the local tescos!
Bled up properly my butt!!
Only I then heard that his uncle took the car for a good blast, came back ten minutes later and there was steam pouring out everywhere! (Just to be sure that head gasket needs changing, just take it out with no coolant in he head and give it a thrash, just to make sure! >:(
Really wish if have priced myself off the job now, not the work that bothers me, its the idiots that I'm dealing with :D ;D
..or maybe its me! Maybe his gasket is shot! Well if it wasn't it is now hey!
If the head gasket wasn't blown, it probably is now. May well have warped the head too. If I were you mate, I would wash my hands of it and tell him to get his uncle to finish the job for him. You cant help people like that. ;)
Have to second that, going by everything else too. Constant ball-ache there, best off out of it :)
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Yeah defo get out of it mate. I'm really struggling to read between the lines here....but.... was he convinced the HG had gone and to save you getting anymore parts that he deemed to not be relevant he's gone and made sure the HG needs doing by thrashing it with no coolant? if that's the case he's pretty mental :y
I imagine this is exactly how it would feel to be Ralf's mechanic. hahahaha
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Yep! Time to walk away and let his uncle finish what he started! ::)
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I'm hoping when I next see the car I'm going to find evidence that the h/g is gone that wasn't present last time I looked. Then I'm quite happy for his uncle to show him how it's done!
Simple lesson learned here. Next time someone I know has car problems I'm taking the car with me and looking at it at home out the way ;D
My backs up now about it because he went and got his uncle to do the stat. I'm sorry mate but where was your uncle when you was going to take it to a garage and pay them for (cough) "head gasket failure" >:(
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Yeah defo get out of it mate. I'm really struggling to read between the lines here....but.... was he convinced the HG had gone and to save you getting anymore parts that he deemed to not be relevant he's gone and made sure the HG needs doing by thrashing it with no coolant? if that's the case he's pretty mental :y
I imagine this is exactly how it would feel to be Ralf's mechanic. hahahaha
I think he rang two garages and said "it's boiling up I think my head gaskets gone"
...and they've gone, "yep definitely. Bring it in"
..and he's believed them!
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I personally wouldn't even go to see the car again. :y
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Yeah defo get out of it mate. I'm really struggling to read between the lines here....but.... was he convinced the HG had gone and to save you getting anymore parts that he deemed to not be relevant he's gone and made sure the HG needs doing by thrashing it with no coolant? if that's the case he's pretty mental :y
I imagine this is exactly how it would feel to be Ralf's mechanic. hahahaha
I think he rang two garages and said "it's boiling up I think my head gaskets gone"
...and they've gone, "yep definitely. Bring it in"
..and he's believed them!
Yep, sounds about right mate ::)
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Walk away mate the man and his uncle are idiotS. :y
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Walk away mate the man and his uncle are idiotS. :y
Not what I wrote but you know what I mean ;D ;D ;D ;D been censored . :y
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Walk away mate the man and his uncle are idiotS. :y
Not what I wrote but you know what I mean ;D ;D ;D ;D been censored . :y
I think the capital letter randomly thrown in emphasises the stupid involved quite nicely. Makes it more so ;D
Oh look.. Something else has just came up!
(Wait for the next post saying "his head is banana shaped!")
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Walk away mate the man and his uncle are idiotS. :y
Not what I wrote but you know what I mean ;D ;D ;D ;D been censored . :y
I think the capital letter randomly thrown in emphasises the stupid involved quite nicely. Makes it more so ;D
Oh look.. Something else has just came up!
(Wait for the next post saying "his head is banana shaped!")
'
;D but not quite, ;D not even banana shaped ;D acctually didn't think what I posted wasn't to bad. :-\ ::) Twits was nearer. :y
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Think Maracus meant the cylinder head not his mates' ;D
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Think Maracus meant the cylinder head not his mates' ;D
I'm open for interpretation on that one Pahahahaha!
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Think Maracus meant the cylinder head not his mates' ;D
Whoops :-[ :-[ ;D ;D
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Seriously though there aint no helping some people so instead of banging your head against the wall I would walk away
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I'd now steer well clear mate - and tell him if he doesn't stop it he'll go blind ??? ;) Sure his uncle has sufficient knowledge to take on the job - probably even knows where to get banana shaped head gaskets as well ;)
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I'd now steer well clear mate - and tell him if he doesn't stop it he'll go blind ??? ;) Sure his uncle has sufficient knowledge to take on the job - probably even knows where to get banana shaped head gaskets as well ;)
I hope so too although he still won't get his refund on the straight one! ;D
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Complete idiot and time waster,walk,and block him :y
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Problem i found when helping friends with there car is as soon as something else goes wrong with there car when you give it back they come back to you moaning it wasnt like that before! Example, helped a mate with a servive then he was on the phone 2 days later moaning that his rear brakes are making a noise saying it wasnt like that before i touched it! funny how i never went near the brakes and he was with me the whole time.
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^ agreed haha!
Well.. I'm now officially off the job! (Thank f*ck!)
Told him this morning that I ain't confident to get it done in time for Christmas, what with my own commitments and a looming mot on the daily.. and that I'm worried about touching a chain drive for the first time with it being not my car.. Apparently the tensioners can be a right pain??
I just seem to have this nasty habit of everything I do taking 3x longer than it should :( so decided if he don't want to be without a car over Christmas, he'd best get it in somewhere!
But I'm now 99% sure it is his head gasket, mayo in oil, a strong smell of fuel in the oil, a severe lack of ability to keep cool dispite the thermostat change.. I think his water pump failed in the first place hence his problems now, and after taking it out last week I'm half expecting his head definitely be warped.. We shall see when he gets it back from a garage!
Oh.. He got his Haynes book; it was the wrong one! ;D right year, wrong model (book says "does not cover e46. His is an e46!)